to tighten up the racing?

montesagold
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Edited Date/Time 6/8/2015 7:21am
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have been virtually non-existent. 250 class is a little better but not much. Just seams like mx racing in general from the 70's up through early 90's was much more entertaining to watch. What happened to the lap after lap battles? Like I said, just wishful thinking but what would make for closer racing?
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OR Racer46
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6/7/2015 1:18pm
Kids that are not spoon feed there entire life . Kids now are raised to race that's it just race. They have 8 fully built 50 cc bikes . Still not sure why they show up with so many bikes. Since you can only ride one at a time ? The up and coming kids are not hungry for it. It's just there life .
montesagold
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6/7/2015 1:44pm
Cab totally I agree that I've seen what you talk about at its worst. Definitely a problem. But I'm not sure that the top 5 at a national not swapping positions can be attributed to that.
KennyT
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Fantasy
6/7/2015 1:56pm
I'm not sure what's going on but it seems to be a very rare day to see riders tightly bunched. Very spread out field.

I watch other racing and am amazed at the right battles all through the field. MotoGP is incredibly tight

It would probably take something nobody wants and that is change. If tracks are rough it will separate the elite from the average even further than they are now. Maybe inverting gate position choice based on point standings.
6/7/2015 2:48pm
The guys who aren't winning should try harder.

The Shop

brimx153
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6/7/2015 3:06pm
when most of the guy here say i love it when they leave the track rough . IT REALLY SEPARATE THE MEN FROM THE BOYS . in every other motorsport they try to make the racing closer , the change tires , rule s ,track s etc . to get the guys CLOSER , in motocross its lets go out of our way to SEPARATE the FAST guys from the slow . that s fine around 3 guys to shine or 1 guy . guess what then you end up with boring racing . i want to see RACING not guys battling a track . that s what enduro is for !!
just James
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6/7/2015 3:11pm
The guys who aren't winning should try harder.
DING DING DING! We have a winner, folks. Sums it up quite well.
ledger
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6/7/2015 3:28pm
Stagger Starts, that's the answer. Laughing
6/7/2015 3:29pm
What I have noticed since watching the GP's this year is that the AMA nationals have obstacles that separate the better riders I from the good riders, such as doubles, whoops, and tricky sections. In GP's racing, there is not much that separates the best from the others. Other than navigating up and down hills, hitting the occasional big single/tabletop, or coming up with a way to be smoother through the "wave" section, there is no way to separate the talent. MXGP is like watching Formula 1 racing without the DRS zone, everyone just freight trains each other. I would rather see a racer crash on trying a creative move like manualing through the whoops ala Eli, then getting injured by hitting a kicker that they don't see and taking a digger on a sketchy dried out one line track. Give the GPs credit though, their sketchy tracks are located in some of the most beautiful areas in the World (excluding Qatar)

But I am just a F'ing Canadian, so what do I know.
bd
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6/7/2015 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2015 3:35pm
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have...
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have been virtually non-existent. 250 class is a little better but not much. Just seams like mx racing in general from the 70's up through early 90's was much more entertaining to watch. What happened to the lap after lap battles? Like I said, just wishful thinking but what would make for closer racing?
You are not.... like any other thing in the world --- football, investing, acting, management, art --- 20% of the people will produce 80% of the output. In Supercross, we had Dungey, Roczen, Canard, and Tomac this year.

Not everyone will win. Additionally, unless you are not paying attention, there are battles all over in the race. Smith, MM25 had fantastic days. Some of the best racing in moto in from 12-16th. Too bad you do not take the time to notice.
bd
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6/7/2015 3:37pm
OR Racer46 wrote:
Kids that are not spoon feed there entire life . Kids now are raised to race that's it just race. They have 8 fully built 50...
Kids that are not spoon feed there entire life . Kids now are raised to race that's it just race. They have 8 fully built 50 cc bikes . Still not sure why they show up with so many bikes. Since you can only ride one at a time ? The up and coming kids are not hungry for it. It's just there life .
This is bullshit ---- Jordan Smith, Cianciarulo, Webb, all had the baddest bikes as AM and you can bet your ass they are ALL hungry.

ChrisB10
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6/7/2015 3:37pm
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have...
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have been virtually non-existent. 250 class is a little better but not much. Just seams like mx racing in general from the 70's up through early 90's was much more entertaining to watch. What happened to the lap after lap battles? Like I said, just wishful thinking but what would make for closer racing?
I agree. Seems like every moto this year there hasn't been a battle for 1st at all.....
brimx153
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6/7/2015 3:50pm
Bnagazina wrote:
What I have noticed since watching the GP's this year is that the AMA nationals have obstacles that separate the better riders I from the good...
What I have noticed since watching the GP's this year is that the AMA nationals have obstacles that separate the better riders I from the good riders, such as doubles, whoops, and tricky sections. In GP's racing, there is not much that separates the best from the others. Other than navigating up and down hills, hitting the occasional big single/tabletop, or coming up with a way to be smoother through the "wave" section, there is no way to separate the talent. MXGP is like watching Formula 1 racing without the DRS zone, everyone just freight trains each other. I would rather see a racer crash on trying a creative move like manualing through the whoops ala Eli, then getting injured by hitting a kicker that they don't see and taking a digger on a sketchy dried out one line track. Give the GPs credit though, their sketchy tracks are located in some of the most beautiful areas in the World (excluding Qatar)

But I am just a F'ing Canadian, so what do I know.
yea but is this not bad . why have obstacles to separate everyone ,to me thats more SUPERCROSS . ITS only in the last few years that the MXGPS have had hard pack tracks again ,and stopped ripping and watering the crap out of the tracks ,and guess what the racing magicly got better . this is the main reason AC222 is not on the 350 anymore . cause there are nt as much of the ridiculously rough RUTTY tracks . now they get real rough but ur dont get the stupid long ruts on the straight s .which equals more lines .
Crush
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6/7/2015 4:47pm
I think there's two types of excitement in racing...

One is the ultimate, what we all want, close racing, including for the lead... But honestly that's so rare and hard to come by just due to how freaking difficult the sport is and the various elements that go into it... There's usually one, sometimes a couple of guys who have got their stars aligned and kill it.

The second is the excitement of the actual riding. I almost always prefer watching the 250 class because they're pushing the bikes to their limits, because the riders can. Anyone in the entire field of 250s looks like they're pinning it, and it's more exciting to watch... apart from the top 450 guys, it looks lazy and dull, especially when they're 10 or more seconds apart.

Not to turn it into a two stroke thread, but they were more exciting to watch, even if there was a gap, because how hard the guys had to ride to go fast. Big four strokes have kind of killed that part of it.
JMR1976
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6/7/2015 4:55pm
Groom the hell out of the tracks! Everyone is fast on a smooth track. I actually think should have certain tracks that groom much more.
h&m_cycle
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6/7/2015 4:55pm
KennyT wrote:
I'm not sure what's going on but it seems to be a very rare day to see riders tightly bunched. Very spread out field. I watch...
I'm not sure what's going on but it seems to be a very rare day to see riders tightly bunched. Very spread out field.

I watch other racing and am amazed at the right battles all through the field. MotoGP is incredibly tight

It would probably take something nobody wants and that is change. If tracks are rough it will separate the elite from the average even further than they are now. Maybe inverting gate position choice based on point standings.
I would 100% agree with you on starting gate position by points standings, but it's hard to punish leaders into getting
roosted...

I would love to use the gate only in the first moto... 2nd moto go off in rows of 2... 10 feet between... 40th & 39th off first...

but again with the roosting....

It would work in supercross with a 2 moto system but the slow guys would get landed on...
EastFlorida
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6/7/2015 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2015 4:57pm
You tighten up the racing by getting all the other guys to step up their game to match the top guys.

Why penalize the guys kicking butt to make the racing closer for the guys not putting in the work or who do not have the skill sets?
h&m_cycle
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6/7/2015 5:00pm
brimx153 wrote:
when most of the guy here say i love it when they leave the track rough . IT REALLY SEPARATE THE MEN FROM THE BOYS...
when most of the guy here say i love it when they leave the track rough . IT REALLY SEPARATE THE MEN FROM THE BOYS . in every other motorsport they try to make the racing closer , the change tires , rule s ,track s etc . to get the guys CLOSER , in motocross its lets go out of our way to SEPARATE the FAST guys from the slow . that s fine around 3 guys to shine or 1 guy . guess what then you end up with boring racing . i want to see RACING not guys battling a track . that s what enduro is for !!
You better have a lot of tight turns then, guys will be flying into the people watching... you can't have 100 mph triples...
Rewindcaz
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6/7/2015 5:04pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2015 5:06pm
MotoGP is hardly much better, imo. (I'm an avid follower)

Spitballing here, but I think the key would be to eliminate fitness as a factor, as that's always going to allow the top guys to surface. Also, to increase the chance for battles up front, reducing the amount of riders in a race. This would ensure all of the win contenders are up front right away.

For example, imagine there's only 10 people at the starting gate, and there's three 6-12 lap races. Now it's not so ridiculous going into the first turn, making it less likely for 1-2 guys to blast away while everyone deals with carnage. And the race being so short, pacing yourself isn't required because fitness isn't much a factor. I'd think this would give a lot of riders more incentive to hang it out and go for win.

Though you lose a lot of cool shit by doing that, and even then who knows if it'd even make a difference.
Seamorbutts
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6/7/2015 5:11pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2015 7:37pm
JMR1976 wrote:
Groom the hell out of the tracks! Everyone is fast on a smooth track. I actually think should have certain tracks that groom much more.
Nobody want's this though. I think people don't understand the concept of rough tracks makes riders spread out, when groom tracks makes everyone fast. I have kept up with very fast A guys on a smooth track that have placed 20th at the National at Pala. This would never be the case for me on a super rough track.. This is why the GP's have been so close this year. They don't till the track 2ft deep In the morning. Make up your mind guys. you can't have It both ways. Either lightly till the tracks and groom them in between motos for close racing, or till the shit out of It, then let It be for spread out racing, It's not rocket science. I think most of the people on here are clueless from some of their post.
bd
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6/7/2015 5:33pm
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have...
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have been virtually non-existent. 250 class is a little better but not much. Just seams like mx racing in general from the 70's up through early 90's was much more entertaining to watch. What happened to the lap after lap battles? Like I said, just wishful thinking but what would make for closer racing?
ChrisB10 wrote:
I agree. Seems like every moto this year there hasn't been a battle for 1st at all.....
Was there anyone on planet who would of raced with Eli Tomac on rounds 1 and 2?
struth
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6/7/2015 5:45pm
To tighten up the racing, you need all thebest riders on the same track.
I.e js, canard, paulin, 222,25 nagal, ect
Talent pool only goes so deep in AMA n mxgp
struth
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6/7/2015 5:46pm
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have...
I know im just asking for hypothetical scenerios, but whats it gonna take? The last 15 years with exception of some erratic momemts the battles have been virtually non-existent. 250 class is a little better but not much. Just seams like mx racing in general from the 70's up through early 90's was much more entertaining to watch. What happened to the lap after lap battles? Like I said, just wishful thinking but what would make for closer racing?
ChrisB10 wrote:
I agree. Seems like every moto this year there hasn't been a battle for 1st at all.....
bd wrote:
Was there anyone on planet who would of raced with Eli Tomac on rounds 1 and 2?
Yes Rv, Js, 222 ECT
DPR250R
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6/7/2015 5:55pm
brimx153 wrote:
when most of the guy here say i love it when they leave the track rough . IT REALLY SEPARATE THE MEN FROM THE BOYS...
when most of the guy here say i love it when they leave the track rough . IT REALLY SEPARATE THE MEN FROM THE BOYS . in every other motorsport they try to make the racing closer , the change tires , rule s ,track s etc . to get the guys CLOSER , in motocross its lets go out of our way to SEPARATE the FAST guys from the slow . that s fine around 3 guys to shine or 1 guy . guess what then you end up with boring racing . i want to see RACING not guys battling a track . that s what enduro is for !!
Yup... I agree.
DPR250R
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6/7/2015 5:56pm
ChrisB10 wrote:
I agree. Seems like every moto this year there hasn't been a battle for 1st at all.....
In the AMA Outdoors, yes.. .the moto RV went down was pretty insane I thought.
resetjet
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6/7/2015 5:58pm
2 equally fast ways to go around most turns.......
JMR1976
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6/7/2015 6:05pm
JMR1976 wrote:
Groom the hell out of the tracks! Everyone is fast on a smooth track. I actually think should have certain tracks that groom much more.
Nobody want's this though. I think people don't understand the concept of rough tracks makes riders spread out, when groom tracks makes everyone fast. I have...
Nobody want's this though. I think people don't understand the concept of rough tracks makes riders spread out, when groom tracks makes everyone fast. I have kept up with very fast A guys on a smooth track that have placed 20th at the National at Pala. This would never be the case for me on a super rough track.. This is why the GP's have been so close this year. They don't till the track 2ft deep In the morning. Make up your mind guys. you can't have It both ways. Either lightly till the tracks and groom them in between motos for close racing, or till the shit out of It, then let It be for spread out racing, It's not rocket science. I think most of the people on here are clueless from some of their post.
I understand most want a rough track. If you truly want closer races this is the easiest way to do it. The thing I don't understand is why do the tracks have to favor the dude in the best shape? As opposed to the guy with the most talent?
montesagold
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6/7/2015 6:12pm
bd wrote:
You are not.... like any other thing in the world --- football, investing, acting, management, art --- 20% of the people will produce 80% of the...
You are not.... like any other thing in the world --- football, investing, acting, management, art --- 20% of the people will produce 80% of the output. In Supercross, we had Dungey, Roczen, Canard, and Tomac this year.

Not everyone will win. Additionally, unless you are not paying attention, there are battles all over in the race. Smith, MM25 had fantastic days. Some of the best racing in moto in from 12-16th. Too bad you do not take the time to notice.
Unfortunately close battles between 14/16 positions dont add up to much. I've followed this sport closely my whole life, and I do follow guys that may be battling for positions throughout the field. Problem is, the common fan could give a shit about those battles. The turn out yesterday was pitiful and from what I could tell from all the guys I try to recruit into going, its just not as exciting as it was years ago.
bd
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6/7/2015 7:24pm
ChrisB10 wrote:
I agree. Seems like every moto this year there hasn't been a battle for 1st at all.....
bd wrote:
Was there anyone on planet who would of raced with Eli Tomac on rounds 1 and 2?
struth wrote:
Yes Rv, Js, 222 ECT
I would take that bet. I was at Hangtown this year --- Eli Tomac (during that race) was on another planet (that said, every rider you mentioned have had similar rides like Eli Tomac's Hangtown).
6/7/2015 8:09pm
Make the tracks go in a circle and have shit tons of full course caution flags thrown throughout the race. Have pit stops - alligator pit stops. Eliminate riders when lapped. Have two lap one on one bracket races. Make them do flips and spins if they're leading.
Fat Fingers
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6/7/2015 8:29pm
I don't remember the racing ever being that tight for a whole series. There may be occasional championship battles that go down to the wire but even in those years, a lot of the races are decided in the first few laps.

I think our memories trick us into looking at the highlight reels of this race here and that race there and thinking it was better. You have just forgot all of the races where leaders checked out in the first lap.



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