Tomac practicing on a two stroke

seth505
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5/19/2015 2:26pm
kiwifan wrote:
oh I thought he was the head of Yamaha racing, as Yamaha pushed for the rule changes to race 4 strokes... the mere fact (well one...
oh I thought he was the head of Yamaha racing, as Yamaha pushed for the rule changes to race 4 strokes... the mere fact (well one of the major reasons anyway) that Honda (and Kawasaki and Suzuki) stopped producing them was because of the rule change that favoured 4 strokes...blame Yamaha
seth505 wrote:
Ya good point, I could blame a lot of people
kiwifan wrote:
yes, including those people who went out and brought the 4 strokes.... :-)
Damn right, those sheep are high on my list! haha
kiwifan
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5/19/2015 2:49pm
seth505 wrote:
Ya good point, I could blame a lot of people
kiwifan wrote:
yes, including those people who went out and brought the 4 strokes.... :-)
seth505 wrote:
Damn right, those sheep are high on my list! haha
baaaaaaa
OldYZRider1
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5/19/2015 3:53pm
h&m_cycle wrote:
The fields are too weak now & you want to add more classes... The 250 east & west is a snooze fest... If I was able...
The fields are too weak now & you want to add more classes... The 250 east & west is a snooze fest...

If I was able to pick the top placings in horse racing like I can in the motoworld I would be rich... Count who's going to win on one hand...
Still just two classes as now; a two stroke class and a four stroke class any displacement you want to run. Only class limit is engine type.

At the current development level of the four strokes is there really any need to separate 250f and 450f's? Guys on a limited budget can go to a 450 which some are already doing or they could go to the two stroke class especially if they've been running one as an amateur.
Redrcr34
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5/19/2015 4:40pm
moose man wrote:
2 strokes are gone and not coming back. End of story
newmann wrote:
You are a little late to the party little man. Just a couple years back you would have had dozens of four stroke nut sucklers coming...
You are a little late to the party little man. Just a couple years back you would have had dozens of four stroke nut sucklers coming to your aid. But most of them are no longer around as their bikes broke and they could no longer afford to pay the 27% loan AND repair them.

By the way, did you see the best part of the outdoor nationals program the other day? In four hours of programming the absolute best part of it all was the Brett Cue Motosport commercial. Shit, there was even a Beta commercial. Beta!

Tongue

The Shop

5/19/2015 5:13pm
Those practice bike four strokes must be damn expensive if Honda will only let him have one at his place of practice.

Maybe Kawasaki will step it up and make sure he has a spare or at least the parts and someone who can fix it for him so he can practice on it before one of those big races he is contracted to ride.

Then again, maybe Tomac feels he gets better results on race day when he spends some track time on a smoker during the week.
wsc96
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5/19/2015 5:16pm
Still just two classes as now; a two stroke class and a four stroke class any displacement you want to run. Only class limit is engine...
Still just two classes as now; a two stroke class and a four stroke class any displacement you want to run. Only class limit is engine type.

At the current development level of the four strokes is there really any need to separate 250f and 450f's? Guys on a limited budget can go to a 450 which some are already doing or they could go to the two stroke class especially if they've been running one as an amateur.
Interesting idea.
tp4
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5/19/2015 5:20pm
wheres the pic or video of et practicing on a 2 stroke?
kiwifan
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5/19/2015 5:31pm
Those practice bike four strokes must be damn expensive if Honda will only let him have one at his place of practice. Maybe Kawasaki will step...
Those practice bike four strokes must be damn expensive if Honda will only let him have one at his place of practice.

Maybe Kawasaki will step it up and make sure he has a spare or at least the parts and someone who can fix it for him so he can practice on it before one of those big races he is contracted to ride.

Then again, maybe Tomac feels he gets better results on race day when he spends some track time on a smoker during the week.
ah you were there so you have all the facts and arent making any massive assumptions, good to know
Steve 396
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5/19/2015 5:41pm
just James wrote:
I would like to see how Alessi's lap times compare between his 450 and his 2 stroke 250. As far as I know, he is the...
I would like to see how Alessi's lap times compare between his 450 and his 2 stroke 250. As far as I know, he is the only top level rider seriously riding a well prepared 250 2 stroke currently.
Yes, Alessi was at Monster for the qualifier riding his 450 and a 250 2 stroke. His dad was there too. He looked good on both bikes. I did not time him on either bike but if I had to guess he was faster on the 4T.

BTW, this 2t vs. 4T crap is ridiculous. Ride WTH you want to and move on. Good Grief.....
5/19/2015 6:18pm
Those practice bike four strokes must be damn expensive if Honda will only let him have one at his place of practice. Maybe Kawasaki will step...
Those practice bike four strokes must be damn expensive if Honda will only let him have one at his place of practice.

Maybe Kawasaki will step it up and make sure he has a spare or at least the parts and someone who can fix it for him so he can practice on it before one of those big races he is contracted to ride.

Then again, maybe Tomac feels he gets better results on race day when he spends some track time on a smoker during the week.
kiwifan wrote:
ah you were there so you have all the facts and arent making any massive assumptions, good to know
LOL

Have you ever heard of a highly paid top tier rider not having a practice bike that works the week before the opening race?

Or did you get upset about the Honda reference?
kiwifan
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5/19/2015 6:28pm
Those practice bike four strokes must be damn expensive if Honda will only let him have one at his place of practice. Maybe Kawasaki will step...
Those practice bike four strokes must be damn expensive if Honda will only let him have one at his place of practice.

Maybe Kawasaki will step it up and make sure he has a spare or at least the parts and someone who can fix it for him so he can practice on it before one of those big races he is contracted to ride.

Then again, maybe Tomac feels he gets better results on race day when he spends some track time on a smoker during the week.
kiwifan wrote:
ah you were there so you have all the facts and arent making any massive assumptions, good to know
LOL Have you ever heard of a highly paid top tier rider not having a practice bike that works the week before the opening race? Or...
LOL

Have you ever heard of a highly paid top tier rider not having a practice bike that works the week before the opening race?

Or did you get upset about the Honda reference?
No, but then again I dont attend ALL their practices to know how many practice bikes they have, do you?

Not at all, but infer from my comments what you like.
5/19/2015 6:44pm
kiwifan wrote:
ah you were there so you have all the facts and arent making any massive assumptions, good to know
LOL Have you ever heard of a highly paid top tier rider not having a practice bike that works the week before the opening race? Or...
LOL

Have you ever heard of a highly paid top tier rider not having a practice bike that works the week before the opening race?

Or did you get upset about the Honda reference?
kiwifan wrote:
No, but then again I dont attend ALL their practices to know how many practice bikes they have, do you? Not at all, but infer from...
No, but then again I dont attend ALL their practices to know how many practice bikes they have, do you?

Not at all, but infer from my comments what you like.
LOL

Don't sweat the small stuff.
TanHner36
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5/19/2015 6:57pm
When you're fast you're fast.
motogrady
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5/19/2015 7:32pm
Ahhhhh".........20 freaking years, millions upon millions of r&d, and they still have to spot the 4 strokes displacement.

To argue which is the better for the job, kinda funny really.

The reality is, the powers that be want the 4 strokes on the track and in your garage.

That's what they want, and will go to great lengths to see that end.

Used to piss me off, but hey, racing is racing, if that's what they want to provide, and everyone is on the same thing, so what.

As long as the playing field is even, even if it's on lawn mowers, the best will rise to the top.

It's just kinda sad, to think where we 'd be, if the factories did half of what they've done for the 4s, for the 2s.

If anyone saw and heard McGraths 250, at a National, the year Henry broke his back, I dunno, 95 or 96, you'd know what I 'm talking about.

5/19/2015 8:29pm
I ran across this video of Ken de Dycker racing a smoker at a national in Belgium at the end of 2013. He is probably the...
I ran across this video of Ken de Dycker racing a smoker at a national in Belgium at the end of 2013. He is probably the biggest man in moto and he was hauling the mail on the KTM. He is definitely a badass in the sand.

stock exhaust?!
mehow2g
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5/19/2015 8:50pm
The only reason why the big 4 went 4 stroke is because it makes money 2 engine grenades and they have made you buy a bike With the cost of a rebuild.

With 2 strokes next to nothing breaks the real winners are companies for premix.

The reason why pros ride 4 strokes is because regulations and you don't get factory rides on a 2t.

I see the tides turning there clearly is a larger demand for 2 strokes these days.
kiwifan
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5/19/2015 9:49pm
mehow2g wrote:
The only reason why the big 4 went 4 stroke is because it makes money 2 engine grenades and they have made you buy a bike...
The only reason why the big 4 went 4 stroke is because it makes money 2 engine grenades and they have made you buy a bike With the cost of a rebuild.

With 2 strokes next to nothing breaks the real winners are companies for premix.

The reason why pros ride 4 strokes is because regulations and you don't get factory rides on a 2t.

I see the tides turning there clearly is a larger demand for 2 strokes these days.
*bangs forehead on table*
Chadillac661
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5/19/2015 10:33pm
motogrady wrote:
Ahhhhh".........20 freaking years, millions upon millions of r&d, and they still have to spot the 4 strokes displacement. To argue which is the better for the...
Ahhhhh".........20 freaking years, millions upon millions of r&d, and they still have to spot the 4 strokes displacement.

To argue which is the better for the job, kinda funny really.

The reality is, the powers that be want the 4 strokes on the track and in your garage.

That's what they want, and will go to great lengths to see that end.

Used to piss me off, but hey, racing is racing, if that's what they want to provide, and everyone is on the same thing, so what.

As long as the playing field is even, even if it's on lawn mowers, the best will rise to the top.

It's just kinda sad, to think where we 'd be, if the factories did half of what they've done for the 4s, for the 2s.

If anyone saw and heard McGraths 250, at a National, the year Henry broke his back, I dunno, 95 or 96, you'd know what I 'm talking about.

Couldn't have said it better myself. All the $ in the world won't replace the intensity level that two strokes brought to motocross. When I attend an event like the Two Stroke World Championships it reminds me how badass the smokers really are.

Watching four strokes race in comparison is like watching floats go by in the Rose Bowl parade.
hammertime
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5/19/2015 10:43pm
Speaking of two strokes whatever happened to Jerry Robin?
shanes
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5/19/2015 11:19pm
someone told me that there was a 2 stroke jumping the big triple last weekend , can anyone confirm this
Chadillac661
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5/19/2015 11:27pm
There were only a handful of riders jumping the FLY 150.

Pretty sure that is a vicious rumor.
kiwifan
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5/20/2015 1:52am
motogrady wrote:
Ahhhhh".........20 freaking years, millions upon millions of r&d, and they still have to spot the 4 strokes displacement. To argue which is the better for the...
Ahhhhh".........20 freaking years, millions upon millions of r&d, and they still have to spot the 4 strokes displacement.

To argue which is the better for the job, kinda funny really.

The reality is, the powers that be want the 4 strokes on the track and in your garage.

That's what they want, and will go to great lengths to see that end.

Used to piss me off, but hey, racing is racing, if that's what they want to provide, and everyone is on the same thing, so what.

As long as the playing field is even, even if it's on lawn mowers, the best will rise to the top.

It's just kinda sad, to think where we 'd be, if the factories did half of what they've done for the 4s, for the 2s.

If anyone saw and heard McGraths 250, at a National, the year Henry broke his back, I dunno, 95 or 96, you'd know what I 'm talking about.

Couldn't have said it better myself. All the $ in the world won't replace the intensity level that two strokes brought to motocross. When I attend...
Couldn't have said it better myself. All the $ in the world won't replace the intensity level that two strokes brought to motocross. When I attend an event like the Two Stroke World Championships it reminds me how badass the smokers really are.

Watching four strokes race in comparison is like watching floats go by in the Rose Bowl parade.
well it is what it is, the industry isnt going to build them anymore so you guys really have to build a bridge and get over it
Chadillac661
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Phoenix, AZ, USA
5/20/2015 2:27am
motogrady wrote:
Ahhhhh".........20 freaking years, millions upon millions of r&d, and they still have to spot the 4 strokes displacement. To argue which is the better for the...
Ahhhhh".........20 freaking years, millions upon millions of r&d, and they still have to spot the 4 strokes displacement.

To argue which is the better for the job, kinda funny really.

The reality is, the powers that be want the 4 strokes on the track and in your garage.

That's what they want, and will go to great lengths to see that end.

Used to piss me off, but hey, racing is racing, if that's what they want to provide, and everyone is on the same thing, so what.

As long as the playing field is even, even if it's on lawn mowers, the best will rise to the top.

It's just kinda sad, to think where we 'd be, if the factories did half of what they've done for the 4s, for the 2s.

If anyone saw and heard McGraths 250, at a National, the year Henry broke his back, I dunno, 95 or 96, you'd know what I 'm talking about.

Couldn't have said it better myself. All the $ in the world won't replace the intensity level that two strokes brought to motocross. When I attend...
Couldn't have said it better myself. All the $ in the world won't replace the intensity level that two strokes brought to motocross. When I attend an event like the Two Stroke World Championships it reminds me how badass the smokers really are.

Watching four strokes race in comparison is like watching floats go by in the Rose Bowl parade.
kiwifan wrote:
well it is what it is, the industry isnt going to build them anymore so you guys really have to build a bridge and get over...
well it is what it is, the industry isnt going to build them anymore so you guys really have to build a bridge and get over it
Once again, you are spot (on)

Are you blind or just stupid?

Or both?



Introducing the 2016 KTM 125

"The engine of the 125 SX has been known to be the most powerful and most competitive engine of the class. But it was time to give a new push to the segment and set a clear statement, that the two-stroke technology is going to have a successful future due to its outstanding power-to-weight ratio, low cost and simplicity. The newly developed 125cc engine for 2016 features a completely new architecture with the latest KTM engineering know-how and the most advanced technology in the class. The result is that it produces better power all over the rev range while being more compact and 4.4 pounds lighter"



kiwifan
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5/20/2015 3:02am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2015 3:05am
Couldn't have said it better myself. All the $ in the world won't replace the intensity level that two strokes brought to motocross. When I attend...
Couldn't have said it better myself. All the $ in the world won't replace the intensity level that two strokes brought to motocross. When I attend an event like the Two Stroke World Championships it reminds me how badass the smokers really are.

Watching four strokes race in comparison is like watching floats go by in the Rose Bowl parade.
kiwifan wrote:
well it is what it is, the industry isnt going to build them anymore so you guys really have to build a bridge and get over...
well it is what it is, the industry isnt going to build them anymore so you guys really have to build a bridge and get over it
Once again, you are spot (on) Are you blind or just stupid? Or both? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/05/20/91707/s1200_s1600_125_SX_90Grad.jpg[/img] Introducing the 2016 KTM 125 "The engine of the 125 SX...
Once again, you are spot (on)

Are you blind or just stupid?

Or both?



Introducing the 2016 KTM 125

"The engine of the 125 SX has been known to be the most powerful and most competitive engine of the class. But it was time to give a new push to the segment and set a clear statement, that the two-stroke technology is going to have a successful future due to its outstanding power-to-weight ratio, low cost and simplicity. The newly developed 125cc engine for 2016 features a completely new architecture with the latest KTM engineering know-how and the most advanced technology in the class. The result is that it produces better power all over the rev range while being more compact and 4.4 pounds lighter"



Once again, you take my words and twist them the way you want them....CLEARLY I mean the ones not producing two strokes arent going to suddenly start producing them just because a few people throw hissy fits that they arent producing them....duh!!!!

Once again, build a bridge and get over it dude!!! Your anti 4 stroke and pro 2 stroke tirade gets real boring real quick.
Chadillac661
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5/20/2015 3:19am
Maybe you should be more specific when posting and clarify that when you state "the industry isn't going to build them anymore" is that what you really mean is the select OEM's that have decided that they want to pass on the all the sales revenue being generated by the recent surge in two stroke sales are not going to build them anymore?

Is that correct?
kiwifan
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5/20/2015 3:26am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2015 3:30am
Maybe you should be more specific when posting and clarify that when you state "the industry isn't going to build them anymore" is that what you...
Maybe you should be more specific when posting and clarify that when you state "the industry isn't going to build them anymore" is that what you really mean is the select OEM's that have decided that they want to pass on the all the sales revenue being generated by the recent surge in two stroke sales are not going to build them anymore?

Is that correct?
Dude, that is not what I said

Fact is, like it or not that most average riders go faster on a 4 stroke than a 2 stroke, riders have a choice to buy either, if you want others to produce them then petition those people, moaning and groaning about it here is not going to change things.
shanes
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5/20/2015 7:10pm
no need to moan when you can buy brand new KTM , TM and huskys :-}}

you are correct the average rider can go faster on a 4 stroke , i do faster lap times on a 4 stroke but you forgot the main reason 2 strokes are more fun to ride , cheaper to run and you don't need to up grade your bike every season before a 4 stoke needs an engine rebuild .
if you are a pro racer yes race a 4 stroke , if you ride for fun do a few little races here and there 2 stroke is the way to go :-}}
Speeddemon73
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6/24/2015 10:02am
I know I am extremely late to the game on this one, but I thought I would chime in. I own both a 07' CR250 and 15' YZ450F currently. I enjoy riding both and cut my teeth riding Honda two strokes in my teens (85cc, 125cc). I used to be that guy who was a die hard two stroke dude and hated four strokes. But now that I have done some growing up, I could really give two craps about which you choose to ride. Some people are faster on two strokes and some are faster on four strokes. For me I am about the same speed on both, maybe a little faster on four stroke because I ride it like my 250 two stroke. In the time we are in now when race attendance is at an all time low, who cares what people ride as long as they ride. Two strokes are badass and sound awesome, but so does a factory 450 or 250f.

I think we are taking the fact that these pros took a two stroke for a spin way out of context like they are dropping their 450's for 250 smokers and running nationals on them. The only reason Tomac took out the CR is to finish a moto and that was the only bike he had. Lots of these other pros like RJ Hampshire, RV, Chad Reed, etc who were on two strokes outside of their factory bikes rode them just because it was fun. Given the choice between the two on race day which one do you think they are going to chose? Two strokes could make a come back in pro racing in the states, but unfortunately the AMA is being a pain about it and teams that attempt racing them usually quit mid season. But even if the AMA lifted their rule for the 250 pro class, manufacturers that canceled their two stroke programs aren't going to start spending millions developing new two strokes when their 4 stroke bikes are making money for them.

As far as costs, motocross isn't cheap, never has been, and never will be. I have found for me personally that it costs me about the same to maintain my 450 as my 250. Air filter and oil changes (tranny oil on 2t) cost the same. Rebuilds between the two are about the same too. My 450 will need a rebuild after about 40-50hrs where my 250 needs one after about 20 or so. Add up the costs doing lets say 2 or 3 rebuilds on a two stroke in the time my 450 needs to be rebuilt and they are about the same price to be honest. The only difference is when a four stroke goes boom, it is pricey for a rebuild when things are FUBAR.

Both motors are sweet and people need to stop this stupid feud. Who cares? Just ride!

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