vid: 83 Denver 500cc National Maggo/Glover battle

augiedog
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11/17/2008 6:40am
Cygnus wrote:
That was the first real MX track I ever rode . Great stuff Scottie !
Was that the track that used to be down in the Castle Rock area?
Cygnus
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11/17/2008 6:53am
No that was in Lakewood at the base of Green Mountain . They just had the parade of homes there this year ,and part of it is open space.

The track in castle rock was CDR. It was closed before I was able to ride the MX track but we used to sneak in and ride what was left of the road course on our rr bikes they cut the drag strip up about every 10 yards or so with a back hoe but you could ride all the corners and then just turn around and go back.
11/17/2008 8:36am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:14pm
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years. And for the record I've seen...
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years.

And for the record I've seen Magoo race live and in person. 30 years ago.

Ask Jody if he designs Glen Helen for today's pussies.
BobbyM wrote:
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass... why don't you him and also...
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass...

why don't you him and also ask if magoo was as fast as a b rider today. post up the answer too you fucking know it all.
You do know they got to lengthen the tracks now to keep the lap times over two minutes?

What the fuck does that tell you?




45 minute moto's means you just went slower for longer.
BobbyM
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11/17/2008 12:57pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2008 12:58pm
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years. And for the record I've seen...
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years.

And for the record I've seen Magoo race live and in person. 30 years ago.

Ask Jody if he designs Glen Helen for today's pussies.
BobbyM wrote:
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass... why don't you him and also...
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass...

why don't you him and also ask if magoo was as fast as a b rider today. post up the answer too you fucking know it all.
You do know they got to lengthen the tracks now to keep the lap times over two minutes? What the fuck does that tell you? 45...
You do know they got to lengthen the tracks now to keep the lap times over two minutes?

What the fuck does that tell you?




45 minute moto's means you just went slower for longer.
lmao...ok.

don't forget to ask jody.

The Shop

TG130
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11/17/2008 2:50pm
Not only would guys like Magoo and Glover annihilate every B rider in existence, they'd gobble up 99.9% (if not 100%) of today's pros and spit 'em out like a sunflower seed.
JustMX
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11/17/2008 3:45pm
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years. And for the record I've seen...
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years.

And for the record I've seen Magoo race live and in person. 30 years ago.

Ask Jody if he designs Glen Helen for today's pussies.
BobbyM wrote:
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass... why don't you him and also...
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass...

why don't you him and also ask if magoo was as fast as a b rider today. post up the answer too you fucking know it all.
You do know they got to lengthen the tracks now to keep the lap times over two minutes? What the fuck does that tell you? 45...
You do know they got to lengthen the tracks now to keep the lap times over two minutes?

What the fuck does that tell you?




45 minute moto's means you just went slower for longer.
Geez,

Your stuff just gets sillier.

What tracks have they lengthened?

The lap times are faster Because the BIKES are faster and because they GROOM the tracks all the time now and a lot of the tracks do NOT get as ROUGH now because they are not getting as many RIDERS and as many LAPS turned as they did at one time.

WTF does that tell YOU?????????

typ2vw159
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11/17/2008 8:30pm
drmarkr
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11/17/2008 8:39pm
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years. And for the record I've seen...
You guy's should pack it in now then. The sport (according to you guy's) has been over for 25 years.

And for the record I've seen Magoo race live and in person. 30 years ago.

Ask Jody if he designs Glen Helen for today's pussies.
BobbyM wrote:
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass... why don't you him and also...
sheeeit, you weren't even born 30 years ago scooter...prolly just swimming around in somebodys ass right around then. disrepectfull dumbass...

why don't you him and also ask if magoo was as fast as a b rider today. post up the answer too you fucking know it all.
You do know they got to lengthen the tracks now to keep the lap times over two minutes? What the fuck does that tell you? 45...
You do know they got to lengthen the tracks now to keep the lap times over two minutes?

What the fuck does that tell you?




45 minute moto's means you just went slower for longer.
Good thing for you Dave's not a moderator around here......

MR
mx757
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11/17/2008 11:47pm
jtomasik wrote:
What would many say? I drove by Thunder Valley today on my way back from riding the mountain bike, and it looks like a paved freeway...
What would many say?





I drove by Thunder Valley today on my way back from riding the mountain bike, and it looks like a paved freeway. They groom the crap out of that thing.


j tom, did you go to the national in 07? that thing looked nothing at all like a freeway. they disked it up so deep that by the end of the 1st 250f practice sessions it was kicking guys all over the place. we walked the track a bit after the 2nd 450 moto and the little switchback / chicane thing had a rut about 3 feet deep in it. that was crazy stuff. 05 I got to ride the national track the day after the national (they didnt prep at all) and it was insanity. I think david has figured out just how to make the track conditions suit the riders well. He doesnt prep it as deep anymore for practice days because a lot of people were getting weeded by the ruts and stuff. The state championships looked just like the national this year and was a really good track for the amateur riders.
11/18/2008 1:41am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:14pm
This is a touchy subject and this video shows some aspects of the 'ol days', but not all. There was a video clip of Bob Hannah at Unadilla which was played as part of a retro lookback at racing at Unadilla before one of the Unadilla nationals a few years back. The track was ridiculously rough: the gravity cavity was so whooped out that skying out of it was not even possible. There were no wood chips in the berms, no bulldozers between motos. It was very rough.

However it seems there are more factors involved in how we judge the sport today. Tracks seem less rough to us, but really they are quite trecherous and some of todays top riders make it look easy. If one were to hit a medium sized bump at moderate speed on an older bike there is quite a bit of disruption as one can see in the video clip here, but today's bikes allow to hit that same bump at a higher speed. This speed increase makes the track roughness a function of motocross technology, track prep, and rider skill (and a few others).

It appears some riders today are not the super masculine men of an era passed, but just because the tracks they race on today are TV friendly and manicured does not mean the ratio of technology to track design has changed.

Oh and some of the commentators who were ex factory guys look at RC, JS, RV and have to admit what they are doing is very extraordinary.
Crash82
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11/18/2008 5:38am
That's today's battle for last in the B class.......on the local level. Not trying to piss anyone off but have you ever see the INT class...
That's today's battle for last in the B class.......on the local level.

Not trying to piss anyone off but have you ever see the INT class whipping it over large large jumps? Ever rail a rut at the end of the day after today's 4 strokes have carved up tilled dirt?

They didn't even till back in the day. Or water as that video showed.

Major respect to the oldtimers for riding those beasts and keeping them alive through 45 mins......but the speed?

That speed ain't competitive today.


Holy crap you have to be the biggest dumbfunk on VD.
croom mx
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11/18/2008 6:54am
I`am faster than todays B riders and I dont even ride anymore.
drmarkr
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11/18/2008 7:42am
croom mx wrote:
I`am faster than todays B riders and I dont even ride anymore.
Har!!
lumpy790
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11/18/2008 7:52am
This is a touchy subject and this video shows some aspects of the 'ol days', but not all. There was a video clip of Bob Hannah...
This is a touchy subject and this video shows some aspects of the 'ol days', but not all. There was a video clip of Bob Hannah at Unadilla which was played as part of a retro lookback at racing at Unadilla before one of the Unadilla nationals a few years back. The track was ridiculously rough: the gravity cavity was so whooped out that skying out of it was not even possible. There were no wood chips in the berms, no bulldozers between motos. It was very rough.

However it seems there are more factors involved in how we judge the sport today. Tracks seem less rough to us, but really they are quite trecherous and some of todays top riders make it look easy. If one were to hit a medium sized bump at moderate speed on an older bike there is quite a bit of disruption as one can see in the video clip here, but today's bikes allow to hit that same bump at a higher speed. This speed increase makes the track roughness a function of motocross technology, track prep, and rider skill (and a few others).

It appears some riders today are not the super masculine men of an era passed, but just because the tracks they race on today are TV friendly and manicured does not mean the ratio of technology to track design has changed.

Oh and some of the commentators who were ex factory guys look at RC, JS, RV and have to admit what they are doing is very extraordinary.
The old Una-fricken-dilla was a one of a kind track that did not get touched accept to throw grass seed on it after the race and mow the grass before the next years race. ZERO discing or tilling for 10 or 15 years! OK they knocked down the berm in the 1st turn before the next start. The woops were so big on the back side of the track that it was 5-8 foot high steps.
11/18/2008 8:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:15pm
And the snow in Denver in 1983 was deeper and fluffier too you will argue next.

Did Aldon Baker train Wardy? Or was Wardy just an animal because kids picked on him for his red hair and freckles?

Wake the fuck up. Show me a picture of Wardy flicked as flat as Barcia and we can then discuss how in 25 fucking years the sport has gone backwards. (but you still watch)

BobbyM
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11/19/2008 3:10am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:15pm
And the snow in Denver in 1983 was deeper and fluffier too you will argue next. Did Aldon Baker train Wardy? Or was Wardy just an...
And the snow in Denver in 1983 was deeper and fluffier too you will argue next.

Did Aldon Baker train Wardy? Or was Wardy just an animal because kids picked on him for his red hair and freckles?

Wake the fuck up. Show me a picture of Wardy flicked as flat as Barcia and we can then discuss how in 25 fucking years the sport has gone backwards. (but you still watch)

to disrespect the riders that have laid the groundwork for ams and pros alike to even attempt what they do today shows how big of a cocksucker and stupid asswipe you are.

you think these riders today just started doing shit out of the blue? guys like ward and danny paved the way for many of these punks (no wonder they are your heroes) to do what they do in their little am races and impress fucksticks like yerself. And they all did it without roids and PED's.

wow....

Joemx
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11/19/2008 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2008 3:44pm
And the snow in Denver in 1983 was deeper and fluffier too you will argue next. Did Aldon Baker train Wardy? Or was Wardy just an...
And the snow in Denver in 1983 was deeper and fluffier too you will argue next.

Did Aldon Baker train Wardy? Or was Wardy just an animal because kids picked on him for his red hair and freckles?

Wake the fuck up. Show me a picture of Wardy flicked as flat as Barcia and we can then discuss how in 25 fucking years the sport has gone backwards. (but you still watch)

These guys we're talking about here (Magoo, Ward, Glover) actually went fast on rough tough tracks and won races. They never worried about crap like flickin it flat or how many tattoos they have like the freestyle tweaks do. And FYI, Barcia couldn't hold Wardy's jockstrap and it'll take him lightyears to catch up with Wardy's accomplishments in the sport. Look at the pic of Magoo above. These guys that you are calling a bunch of spodes could do it all. Let's see if a B level rider can go out and dominate the MX des Nations on their first try.
JustMX
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11/19/2008 4:35pm
Oh, I didn't realize we were talking about freestyle.

I guess flicking it sideways would be important.

Much more important that being one of the most fit racers ever, like Ward, who also used a legendary trainer with a bicycle and olympic background.

Or maybe just being as tough as eating a chingshin knobby, like Ward, who started the out door series one year with a broken leg that he had a screw put in and used in air cast in a boot a couple of sizes too big so he would not be out of the champoinship run.

Knowitallnovice, your shallow observations continue to amaze me.

Please keep me amused for bit more with your senseless dribble until you finally fade into obscurity.
Matthes
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11/19/2008 4:58pm
There's not many people who look up to and idolize the old guys like I do but.....todays riders are faster and more talented then any of those old guys. Part of that is due to bikes, part of that is due to the fact the guys can practice technical skills (I.E-SX) 24-7 if they want.
That's not just an opinion, that's something that Lechien, Ross Pederson, Jeff Emig, Jim Holley and others have told me to my face.
I think the very top guys' fitness is just as good as the old guys but overall, I think the old guys were in better shape. They had to be if you look at their old bikes they had to ride.
Matthes
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11/19/2008 4:58pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2008 4:59pm
double post....
BobbyM
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11/19/2008 5:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:15pm
Matthes wrote:
There's not many people who look up to and idolize the old guys like I do but.....todays riders are faster and more talented then any of...
There's not many people who look up to and idolize the old guys like I do but.....todays riders are faster and more talented then any of those old guys. Part of that is due to bikes, part of that is due to the fact the guys can practice technical skills (I.E-SX) 24-7 if they want.
That's not just an opinion, that's something that Lechien, Ross Pederson, Jeff Emig, Jim Holley and others have told me to my face.
I think the very top guys' fitness is just as good as the old guys but overall, I think the old guys were in better shape. They had to be if you look at their old bikes they had to ride.
yup...and 22 year old john glen couldn't fly an f18 as good as the young bucks nowadays. yup...you nailed it.

we must be talking about 2 different things steve.

lmao...fact is an 16 year old bailey or magoo would be right in the thick of it nowadays.

and the thing about PED's...you know exactly what i am talking about steve...address that issue if you got the balls. Smile

hahahaha... ross pederson? lmfao.
BobbyM
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11/20/2008 4:21am
lol...the new plague, you mention PED's on a moto board and everybody runs.
Matthes
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11/20/2008 8:20am
Matthes wrote:
There's not many people who look up to and idolize the old guys like I do but.....todays riders are faster and more talented then any of...
There's not many people who look up to and idolize the old guys like I do but.....todays riders are faster and more talented then any of those old guys. Part of that is due to bikes, part of that is due to the fact the guys can practice technical skills (I.E-SX) 24-7 if they want.
That's not just an opinion, that's something that Lechien, Ross Pederson, Jeff Emig, Jim Holley and others have told me to my face.
I think the very top guys' fitness is just as good as the old guys but overall, I think the old guys were in better shape. They had to be if you look at their old bikes they had to ride.
BobbyM wrote:
yup...and 22 year old john glen couldn't fly an f18 as good as the young bucks nowadays. yup...you nailed it. we must be talking about 2...
yup...and 22 year old john glen couldn't fly an f18 as good as the young bucks nowadays. yup...you nailed it.

we must be talking about 2 different things steve.

lmao...fact is an 16 year old bailey or magoo would be right in the thick of it nowadays.

and the thing about PED's...you know exactly what i am talking about steve...address that issue if you got the balls. Smile

hahahaha... ross pederson? lmfao.
If you laugh at Pederson, you have to laugh at Holley as well-they were the same speed!

Anyways, yes put a 16 yr old Magoo or Bailey in today and they would be in the thick of it, you're right. I'm just saying the bikes of today and the way everything is structured now leads me to believe (and the old guys also) that the guys of today are better than ever.

As far as PED's, what do you want me to say? I have no proof of anything and clearly one look at me and you know I don't run in those circles. Do I think guys have/had done them? Yes.
Now what?
BobbyM
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11/20/2008 10:04am
Matthes wrote:
There's not many people who look up to and idolize the old guys like I do but.....todays riders are faster and more talented then any of...
There's not many people who look up to and idolize the old guys like I do but.....todays riders are faster and more talented then any of those old guys. Part of that is due to bikes, part of that is due to the fact the guys can practice technical skills (I.E-SX) 24-7 if they want.
That's not just an opinion, that's something that Lechien, Ross Pederson, Jeff Emig, Jim Holley and others have told me to my face.
I think the very top guys' fitness is just as good as the old guys but overall, I think the old guys were in better shape. They had to be if you look at their old bikes they had to ride.
BobbyM wrote:
yup...and 22 year old john glen couldn't fly an f18 as good as the young bucks nowadays. yup...you nailed it. we must be talking about 2...
yup...and 22 year old john glen couldn't fly an f18 as good as the young bucks nowadays. yup...you nailed it.

we must be talking about 2 different things steve.

lmao...fact is an 16 year old bailey or magoo would be right in the thick of it nowadays.

and the thing about PED's...you know exactly what i am talking about steve...address that issue if you got the balls. Smile

hahahaha... ross pederson? lmfao.
Matthes wrote:
If you laugh at Pederson, you have to laugh at Holley as well-they were the same speed! Anyways, yes put a 16 yr old Magoo or...
If you laugh at Pederson, you have to laugh at Holley as well-they were the same speed!

Anyways, yes put a 16 yr old Magoo or Bailey in today and they would be in the thick of it, you're right. I'm just saying the bikes of today and the way everything is structured now leads me to believe (and the old guys also) that the guys of today are better than ever.

As far as PED's, what do you want me to say? I have no proof of anything and clearly one look at me and you know I don't run in those circles. Do I think guys have/had done them? Yes.
Now what?
PED expose' is now what. hehehe
ocscottie
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11/20/2008 11:01am
I have got another classic uploading now, one of my all time favorite races: 85 Carlsbad USGP, the one from ABC sports when they go to DB's house and show his practice track, Gary also tried to teach Jim Lampley how to ride, so classic!

A young Ronnie was so on it the first half of the 1st moto! watch his feet on the pegs powerslide, its incredible how fluid he rode that works 500 machinery.

*i hope both vids uploaded successfully, keep and eye on the main video page here at Vital. They are in 2 parts.
ocscottie
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11/20/2008 11:04am
btw: i gave myself a little birthday present the other day, upgraded my 'net speeds, so you should start seeing a lot more vids now that i have much faster speeds for uploading.
croom mx
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11/20/2008 12:38pm
Today the bikes are so much better so you have riders that are not as skilled going fast. The old bikes were not as good, suspension, power, brakes, handling. Also old school riders raced for 45 minutes so there is not argument who was in better condition. I`ve seen Stewart ride and he is the fastest I`ve ever seen but if I could put a 21 year old Mark Barnett , David Bailey, Ron Lechien, Kent Howerton, Bob Hannah on a new bike at todays Nationals it would be a dog fight and I not sure Stewart would win.
11/20/2008 1:32pm
Mathes is right in a lot of ways, that todays kids are more talented and such but that comes through evolution. Every championship caliber rider brings with him something that the others dont have, once the younger breed sees what that champion is doing, they applie it AND bring to the next level.

I go to a lot of races and study riders, and if you took the best the 80s or 90s had to offer and dumped him on todays bike, James would kill them. But lets say Bailey was born in 1990 and came up in todays Am races and learned todays style, I think James and RC would have a lot less wins because of Baileys natural ability and sheer determination.

Riders like Hannah, Ward, Barnett, and Stanton were animals and they would have won in any era they were born into, but they wouldnt win if you took them out of their era into this one.
drmarkr
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11/20/2008 9:56pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Mathes is right in a lot of ways, that todays kids are more talented and such but that comes through evolution. Every championship caliber rider brings...
Mathes is right in a lot of ways, that todays kids are more talented and such but that comes through evolution. Every championship caliber rider brings with him something that the others dont have, once the younger breed sees what that champion is doing, they applie it AND bring to the next level.

I go to a lot of races and study riders, and if you took the best the 80s or 90s had to offer and dumped him on todays bike, James would kill them. But lets say Bailey was born in 1990 and came up in todays Am races and learned todays style, I think James and RC would have a lot less wins because of Baileys natural ability and sheer determination.

Riders like Hannah, Ward, Barnett, and Stanton were animals and they would have won in any era they were born into, but they wouldnt win if you took them out of their era into this one.
Never mind that.....let's speculate on a 5th-10th SX or MX rider going back to the early 80's, riding those bikes, on those tracks, with that track prep, riding 45 + 2's.

C'mon...what do you think all?

Some fool(s) on here seem to think B riders from today would be competitive in that scenario.....

MR
11/20/2008 10:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:16pm
Don't twist it up Dr. Mark.

What was said is that the speed on the '83 video is today's B class.

Speed.

No matter the bikes, the training, the PED's, the balls etc.

Speed.

Thanks Mathes for reading about the discussion and settling the debate.

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