KRT & the RV/Rattray experiment

Edited Date/Time 4/23/2015 11:31pm
Just a civil discussion on a issue I am seeking to understand. KRT has been a premier Racing Team in the GP paddock for many years now, top 5 team in prestige, respect and work ethic without a doubt. I'm just confused on the gamble thrust upon them in their quest for a MX1 manufacturers Championship which has eluded them since their beginning. KRT separated from a potential champion when Paulin left and Frossard always was 2nd in line in the MX1 ranks of possibilities.There was a opportunity to bring a former AMA with no experience in the GP and fill out the team with a former World Champion who has has struggled in his recent forays into the GPs.The upcoming future hopeful Arnaud left to ride in the AMA and the Dylan could be a prime candidate to follow after his MX2 situation ends. What does KRT have as far as fielding a competent team next season with it's 2 MX1 riders gone and no one groomed or experienced in MX1 to step in? Can a team build a future with a new stable of riders coming in every year and a continuous process of "rebuilding"? Would a option of adding a 3rd rider who can step in during injury and is not only bonding with the team but also has the experience of being in the presence of 2 talents to glean knowledge from plus track time experience against the competitors he will be facing next season. Confusing.
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themrtoad
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4/19/2015 1:00pm
I think Tonus would be a good fit for them next year as 2nd or 3rd rider since he is a rookie and injured quite often.

I also think Paulin would love to get out of his contract with Honda right now...but can't of course.

They will struggle to find two good riders for sure, but I can still understand they took a chance on RV2 and I'm glad they did as a fan. Maybe Simpson could go there, or Frossard again. Bobryshev?
themrtoad
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4/19/2015 1:02pm
Or they will continue to rely on high profile imports from the US? I heard Millsaps was looking for a ride lol
mumhra
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4/19/2015 1:03pm
Well.. to be honoust I don't think KRT had much to say in this matter. I think Kawasaki and especially Monster energy were the ones who decided to hire RV. Paulin has been with Monster for years now and i think it was clear that he could not beat Cairoli. Monster got tired of loosing against Red Bull. After all, Monster is the main sponsor of the GP circus and year after year a Red Bull rider clinches the title. For 2015 Monster wanted to win the title. Who would you pick for that job ? To be honoust i see not one rider in Europe that could switch to Kawasaki and win the title. You need someone who is used to winning, who is used to Kawasaki's and who is fast enough to challenge Cairoli. Villopoto could not ride the supercross series and grew tired of the AMA nationals so he looked to be the right man at the right place. I think Monster energy threw a lot of money his way and gave him everything he wanted to have, which included Rattray as his teammate. KRT just had to do what Kawasaki and Monster said.

For the following years KRT has 2 very good riders coming up. Tixier and Ferrandis are not used to the 450cc bikes but it won't take long for them to adjust.

If you were the team manager .. who would you have picked for this season ? Wouldn't you jump at the chance to hire RV, even if that ment letting go of Paulin ? I would not hesitate. Paulin had his chance and he threw it away year after year. I would've taken the gamble and would've gone with RV, just like KRT has.
h&m_cycle
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4/19/2015 1:05pm
themrtoad wrote:
Or they will continue to rely on high profile imports from the US? I heard Millsaps was looking for a ride lol
Rattray maybe able to beat Davi Mudflaps outdoors.

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Seamorbutts
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4/19/2015 1:17pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2015 1:18pm
mumhra wrote:
Well.. to be honoust I don't think KRT had much to say in this matter. I think Kawasaki and especially Monster energy were the ones who...
Well.. to be honoust I don't think KRT had much to say in this matter. I think Kawasaki and especially Monster energy were the ones who decided to hire RV. Paulin has been with Monster for years now and i think it was clear that he could not beat Cairoli. Monster got tired of loosing against Red Bull. After all, Monster is the main sponsor of the GP circus and year after year a Red Bull rider clinches the title. For 2015 Monster wanted to win the title. Who would you pick for that job ? To be honoust i see not one rider in Europe that could switch to Kawasaki and win the title. You need someone who is used to winning, who is used to Kawasaki's and who is fast enough to challenge Cairoli. Villopoto could not ride the supercross series and grew tired of the AMA nationals so he looked to be the right man at the right place. I think Monster energy threw a lot of money his way and gave him everything he wanted to have, which included Rattray as his teammate. KRT just had to do what Kawasaki and Monster said.

For the following years KRT has 2 very good riders coming up. Tixier and Ferrandis are not used to the 450cc bikes but it won't take long for them to adjust.

If you were the team manager .. who would you have picked for this season ? Wouldn't you jump at the chance to hire RV, even if that ment letting go of Paulin ? I would not hesitate. Paulin had his chance and he threw it away year after year. I would've taken the gamble and would've gone with RV, just like KRT has.
Stop making sense, its hurting my brain!!!
4/19/2015 1:19pm
mumhra wrote:
Well.. to be honoust I don't think KRT had much to say in this matter. I think Kawasaki and especially Monster energy were the ones who...
Well.. to be honoust I don't think KRT had much to say in this matter. I think Kawasaki and especially Monster energy were the ones who decided to hire RV. Paulin has been with Monster for years now and i think it was clear that he could not beat Cairoli. Monster got tired of loosing against Red Bull. After all, Monster is the main sponsor of the GP circus and year after year a Red Bull rider clinches the title. For 2015 Monster wanted to win the title. Who would you pick for that job ? To be honoust i see not one rider in Europe that could switch to Kawasaki and win the title. You need someone who is used to winning, who is used to Kawasaki's and who is fast enough to challenge Cairoli. Villopoto could not ride the supercross series and grew tired of the AMA nationals so he looked to be the right man at the right place. I think Monster energy threw a lot of money his way and gave him everything he wanted to have, which included Rattray as his teammate. KRT just had to do what Kawasaki and Monster said.

For the following years KRT has 2 very good riders coming up. Tixier and Ferrandis are not used to the 450cc bikes but it won't take long for them to adjust.

If you were the team manager .. who would you have picked for this season ? Wouldn't you jump at the chance to hire RV, even if that ment letting go of Paulin ? I would not hesitate. Paulin had his chance and he threw it away year after year. I would've taken the gamble and would've gone with RV, just like KRT has.
The deal was what I referred to as the gamble. You are right about the available talent pool. But such a gamble was a enormous undertaking, a do or die situation and Tyla would have taken anything thrown his way as far as a contract, he has become a burden rather than a asset to the team in my opinion. Would it have been wise to just label the 2015 season as a one off throw away that had the possibility to be a shocker but with the preseason effort documented it was already on the books as a mediocre effort. Why not sneak in a future possibility and groom him, coddle him, baby him and make him the future by sticking with him during development and having seasoned top 10 riders in the twilight of their careers in the paddock around him. It was a tough situation and yes I think KRT didn't have much say in the issue which really sucks, they are a very good team.
mumhra
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4/19/2015 1:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2015 2:00pm
Why not sneak in a future possibility and groom him, coddle him, baby him and make him the future by sticking with him during development and having seasoned top 10 riders in the twilight of their careers in the paddock around him.

Because KRT... sorry, Kawasaki and Monster.. got tired of waiting. They don't have time to wait for a future possibility to get fast enough to beat Cairoli. They want a world championship and they want it asap.
besides... let's say they snatch Tim Gajser away from Gariboldi Honda and groom him and coddle him. Maybe, just maybe, he is in 2 or 3 years time fast enough to beat Cairoli. People will say that Gajser won against Cairoli because Cairoli is getting to old, because Cairoli is over his top.
Monster wants to win the world championship now, while Cairoli is still in his prime. They want to defeat him as soon as possible. They don't want to wait. They decided to take the gamble. I would've done the same. I thought Cairoli still was the big favorit to win it, but (unlike you) i really thought Villo had a chance. I however thought he would be leading after round 3 and i thought Cairoli would start his hunt in Arco di Trento. When i saw that Villo was only 4th after round 3 i knew it was going to be difficult for him.
I have a lot of respect for RV. I have a lot of respect for what he is doing this year. But it looks like it is impossible to come over to Europe and win the world championship in your first year. If Villopoto can't, noone else in America can. Villo really should try again next year.
Besides... this season isn't over yet. There still are several rounds where i see Villopoto winning both moto's. He is allready a full GP behind so it will be difficult, but it ain't over untill the final blocked flag in Glen Helen.
mumhra
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4/19/2015 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2015 1:59pm
Stop making sense, its hurting my brain!!!
Then don't read my posts Tongue Wink
Seamorbutts
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4/19/2015 2:06pm
Stop making sense, its hurting my brain!!!
mumhra wrote:
Then don't read my posts Tongue Wink
It's ok, your last post didn't hurt my brain near as much..lol
mumhra
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4/19/2015 2:21pm
lmao Laughing
4/19/2015 3:12pm
Dylan Ferrandis sounds like a viable option for a future seat at KRT, but I'm fairly sure he will be with Mitch and Pro Circuit after the 2016 GP season. With that being said, they should immediately commence grooming Tixier. He's an equally feasible option for them, and he should be paired with someone who is thoroughly experienced in racing the MX1 class. I suppose my picks for the "mentor" seat would be Frossard or Simpson. I honestly can't think of another individual in the class who is even remotely worthy of a factory ride. Of course, I'm assuming most of the current factory riders are locked up with their teams for years to come. It's highly unlikely that is true, but if it is, KRT's options are severely limited. A shallow talent pool is frustratingly difficult to work with.

Poaching another team's talent is another possibility, albeit a potentially expensive one. To be honest, with the Villopoto signing I'm unsure if Monster Energy is going to be patient during the development of a young rider. Although at this point, I don't think they have any choice. RV, in their eyes, was their only chance. After what occurred at Arco di Trento, the championship is no longer realistically obtainable.

With some further training and development, I do believe Tixier can do well for KRT and please Monster. Unfortunately, it depends on certain people in certain places patiently waiting and constantly biting their tongues.
Park Boys
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4/19/2015 3:41pm
The Source wrote:
Just a civil discussion on a issue I am seeking to understand. KRT has been a premier Racing Team in the GP paddock for many years...
Just a civil discussion on a issue I am seeking to understand. KRT has been a premier Racing Team in the GP paddock for many years now, top 5 team in prestige, respect and work ethic without a doubt. I'm just confused on the gamble thrust upon them in their quest for a MX1 manufacturers Championship which has eluded them since their beginning. KRT separated from a potential champion when Paulin left and Frossard always was 2nd in line in the MX1 ranks of possibilities.There was a opportunity to bring a former AMA with no experience in the GP and fill out the team with a former World Champion who has has struggled in his recent forays into the GPs.The upcoming future hopeful Arnaud left to ride in the AMA and the Dylan could be a prime candidate to follow after his MX2 situation ends. What does KRT have as far as fielding a competent team next season with it's 2 MX1 riders gone and no one groomed or experienced in MX1 to step in? Can a team build a future with a new stable of riders coming in every year and a continuous process of "rebuilding"? Would a option of adding a 3rd rider who can step in during injury and is not only bonding with the team but also has the experience of being in the presence of 2 talents to glean knowledge from plus track time experience against the competitors he will be facing next season. Confusing.
Dylan like most of the fast up and coming kids from Europe has his eyes set on the AMA.
4/19/2015 4:10pm
The talent pool is pretty shallow now but there is a whole crop of upcoming that need to get signed and recruited before Pit gets his hands on them with 4-6 year contracts.I had Jake in mind as a promising prospect for the next season, not for a run at the Championship. And Roelants would have fit in but that is gone now. Husky poached and took a large amount of talent off the market and it's slim pickins for next year. Tixier will fit well in MX1 but I can't see him being a force though. I would have taken the RV deal but without the tag along with Tyla, I would of had a promising rookie ( who?) and put all the effort into RV's run at the gold.
4/19/2015 10:27pm
Park Boys wrote:
Dylan like most of the fast up and coming kids from Europe has his eyes set on the AMA.
you are close, but a little mistaken,

Dylan like most of the fast up and coming kids from FRANCE has his eyes set on the AMA.

with the odd exception, Roczen being the main one, most of the riders that have come from good rides in europe to the US have been french,
4/19/2015 10:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2015 10:56pm
France has a active SX scene, Dylan is definitely headed to the AMA so I left him out of the KRT future as well as Covington who has reverted to his usual pace as a backmarker.
DeStouwer
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4/20/2015 1:42am
I've said it before somewhere on Vital, Kawasaki/Monster Energy took a HUGE risk putting all of their hope on one guy, who has to take the title in his first year in GP's. This guy, who actually wanted to quit racing, now has to win almost everything to get a chance of bringing it home. I don't know if the promised bonus for the title is enough motivation for a guy who was thinking to retire.

As for the second ride a Kawasaki, Rattray got it because RV demanded for it. Generally, not a wild guess, as Rattray knew the scene from last year and his first stint in the GP's. On the other hand, it was obvious last year that Tyla was far off pace and that he wouldn't be able to pick it up again. Better was that Rattray would've been a kind of coach to RV, but you can't expect from a man to retire because his friend comes over to ride the series.

As for Tixier, I don't see him beat Cairoli on a regular base, certainly not for the title. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good rider, but I don't see that happen. Ferrandis leaves to the US after this season (if he keeps his words he said last year). Maybe Febvre when he leaves Yamaha, but I don't think Rinaldi wants to lose his ace in the hole.
jamma10
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4/20/2015 1:57am
I know Rattray is a little erratic but if he's able to put a string of GPs together I think he'll be OK. Most of the time it's little niggling injuries holding him back.

He went 8 - 8 in Thailand, which is around where I predicted he would be regularly, but then he got ill and didn't train much before Argentina. And now of course he comes off worse in a first lap crash in the qualifier with Desalle. He'd posted the 13th fastest lap in timed qualifying and was in a group of seven riders (including Cairoli, RV & Febvre) who all posted 1.42's.
themrtoad
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4/20/2015 5:00am
Rattray came around at Vangani together with Townley and Tanel Leok. To be honest he has his best years behind him since a long time.

I can actually feel they overlooked a lot of good riders just to get RV's friend a ride, and there is a big chance they will pay a high price because of it. Maybe they should have hired a practise mechanic for RV that could have served as company as well. Like some friend of his from USA?

Better choices would have been Xavier Boog, Shaun Simpson, Steven Frossard.

I'm not superimpressed with Dylan Ferrandis on the 250f. Maybe he has huge potential on the bigger bikes but in that case I can't see it. Tixier has a better riding position and looks more in control. Ferrandis to me looks like he is struggling and about to crash all the time.
jamma10
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4/20/2015 5:03am
themrtoad wrote:
Rattray came around at Vangani together with Townley and Tanel Leok. To be honest he has his best years behind him since a long time. I...
Rattray came around at Vangani together with Townley and Tanel Leok. To be honest he has his best years behind him since a long time.

I can actually feel they overlooked a lot of good riders just to get RV's friend a ride, and there is a big chance they will pay a high price because of it. Maybe they should have hired a practise mechanic for RV that could have served as company as well. Like some friend of his from USA?

Better choices would have been Xavier Boog, Shaun Simpson, Steven Frossard.

I'm not superimpressed with Dylan Ferrandis on the 250f. Maybe he has huge potential on the bigger bikes but in that case I can't see it. Tixier has a better riding position and looks more in control. Ferrandis to me looks like he is struggling and about to crash all the time.
RV has a American practice mechanic with him, it's his buddy Tanner Ellingsen.
themrtoad
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4/20/2015 6:07am
jamma10 wrote:
RV has a American practice mechanic with him, it's his buddy Tanner Ellingsen.
Ok. I didn't know that thanks for the info. Good for him then I guess. So he has his wife/gf, father and practise mechanic and still feel alone despite Rattray.

I'm sure the change is huge and mentally tough but it must have been even worse for young riders from South Africa, New Zealand and Russia who came here pretty much all alone at a much younger age (15-16yo) and without any money.


4/20/2015 7:29am
If RV has a buddy with him and his family/friends then Rattray's task for KRT seems like a waste.
RY4N37
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4/20/2015 8:06am
It's an interesting point you make Source. If this is to be a 1 year deal with RV, and Rattray does not improve, then where do KRT go after this season? Tony's would've been an option but he has gone to America, Ferrandis looks set to follow him. I think they have to take a gamble again next season, bring in someone young and let them develop
mumhra
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4/20/2015 12:06pm
The Source wrote:
The talent pool is pretty shallow now but there is a whole crop of upcoming that need to get signed and recruited before Pit gets his...
The talent pool is pretty shallow now but there is a whole crop of upcoming that need to get signed and recruited before Pit gets his hands on them with 4-6 year contracts.I had Jake in mind as a promising prospect for the next season, not for a run at the Championship. And Roelants would have fit in but that is gone now. Husky poached and took a large amount of talent off the market and it's slim pickins for next year. Tixier will fit well in MX1 but I can't see him being a force though. I would have taken the RV deal but without the tag along with Tyla, I would of had a promising rookie ( who?) and put all the effort into RV's run at the gold.
Tixier will fit well in MX1 but I can't see him being a force though.
True. I don't really see him as world champion material

would have taken the RV deal but without the tag along with Tyla

Well... i don't think that was on option. It was or RV with Tyla, or no RV at all.
What would you have picked ? RV with Tyla or another duo ? If you pick option 2, which duo ?
I would have done the same. I would've gone with RV and Tyla. Maybe a young 3rd rider as well, but god only knows how much they have to pay RV. Maybe there is no money left for a 3rd rider.
4/20/2015 2:50pm


Steven Frossard is a wild horse with an edge for disaster, but his speed can't be denied.

All he needed was someone like Claudio De Carli to bring out the best of him, but unfortunally he never had any: Rinaldi was a very good manager back in his days, but today the team seem to have lost the plot, and Frossard was their biggest remorse, i'm afraid

I still think he'd be a good choice, not for the championship maybe, but for some regular podium battle, with someone really supporting him mental wise.

As for the future, if i had any money, i'd bet on Febvre
RY4N37
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4/20/2015 3:21pm Edited Date/Time 4/20/2015 3:22pm
thegoblin wrote:
Steven Frossard is a wild horse with an edge for disaster, but his speed can't be denied. All he needed was someone like Claudio De Carli...


Steven Frossard is a wild horse with an edge for disaster, but his speed can't be denied.

All he needed was someone like Claudio De Carli to bring out the best of him, but unfortunally he never had any: Rinaldi was a very good manager back in his days, but today the team seem to have lost the plot, and Frossard was their biggest remorse, i'm afraid

I still think he'd be a good choice, not for the championship maybe, but for some regular podium battle, with someone really supporting him mental wise.

As for the future, if i had any money, i'd bet on Febvre
Frossard could've worked with De Carli this year, he had the offer for the ride that Searle now has, but his manager asked for too much money and they retracted their offer.

As for Febvre, that boy has future world champ written all over him IMO. The improvement he makes each year is unbelievable, 5 years ago he was riding supermoto, now he looks like a solid top 5 guy just 4 races into his debut 450 GP season. If he can keep up this level of improvement in the coming seasons there's a chance he could leapfrog Desalle, Paulin etc. to be the next guy after Cairoli. Although Herlings will of course be in the mix then
4/20/2015 8:12pm
There is a unbelievable amount of talent upcoming in 2-3 years. As I touched on before, Pit has been snagging them with 4-6 year contracts in the EMX ranks. Not much left to pick from after he's finished but there are some who are overlooked and slip through the KTM net.
Some that are running under the radar at the moment but are signed
Golovkin, Russia
Herbreteau, France ( Tixier's replacement)
Graulus, Bel
Watson, GBR
Just some random thoughts: Zach returning , Smothering Anstie with cash & KRT kisses, Smooching Guillod and opening a Swiss bank account in his name. Make KRT take Russian lessons and promise Brylyakov anything.Get Conrad Mewes signed to a 100 year contract with all the bells and whistles.

Zracer
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4/20/2015 8:26pm
Unless Kawi somehow lands Herlings, they had to sell their soul for a title this year. When Herlings moves up , titles are going to get even harder to come by.
4/20/2015 8:34pm
Zracer wrote:
Unless Kawi somehow lands Herlings, they had to sell their soul for a title this year. When Herlings moves up , titles are going to get...
Unless Kawi somehow lands Herlings, they had to sell their soul for a title this year. When Herlings moves up , titles are going to get even harder to come by.
Will be interesting the next couple of years no doubt, You can feel the Golden Age of GP's is just starting with gates that will be stacked with talent.
DeStouwer
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4/20/2015 11:44pm
The Source wrote:
There is a unbelievable amount of talent upcoming in 2-3 years. As I touched on before, Pit has been snagging them with 4-6 year contracts in...
There is a unbelievable amount of talent upcoming in 2-3 years. As I touched on before, Pit has been snagging them with 4-6 year contracts in the EMX ranks. Not much left to pick from after he's finished but there are some who are overlooked and slip through the KTM net.
Some that are running under the radar at the moment but are signed
Golovkin, Russia
Herbreteau, France ( Tixier's replacement)
Graulus, Bel
Watson, GBR
Just some random thoughts: Zach returning , Smothering Anstie with cash & KRT kisses, Smooching Guillod and opening a Swiss bank account in his name. Make KRT take Russian lessons and promise Brylyakov anything.Get Conrad Mewes signed to a 100 year contract with all the bells and whistles.

Golovkin? Are you kidding me? That guy only has a ride because daddy Golovkin has a lot of money. The last couple of years he has attended almost every GP, but hardly scored any points (0 in 2012, 1 in 2013, 1 in 2014). Honestly, I was suprised he already gathered 17 points in the first three GP's this year. Now we're back in Europe were the field gets deeper, and he's nowhere near the points again. Seriously, nobody is waiting for him, or it must be for his dad's money.
41NDT
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4/20/2015 11:50pm
thegoblin wrote:
Steven Frossard is a wild horse with an edge for disaster, but his speed can't be denied. All he needed was someone like Claudio De Carli...


Steven Frossard is a wild horse with an edge for disaster, but his speed can't be denied.

All he needed was someone like Claudio De Carli to bring out the best of him, but unfortunally he never had any: Rinaldi was a very good manager back in his days, but today the team seem to have lost the plot, and Frossard was their biggest remorse, i'm afraid

I still think he'd be a good choice, not for the championship maybe, but for some regular podium battle, with someone really supporting him mental wise.

As for the future, if i had any money, i'd bet on Febvre
RY4N37 wrote:
Frossard could've worked with De Carli this year, he had the offer for the ride that Searle now has, but his manager asked for too much...
Frossard could've worked with De Carli this year, he had the offer for the ride that Searle now has, but his manager asked for too much money and they retracted their offer.

As for Febvre, that boy has future world champ written all over him IMO. The improvement he makes each year is unbelievable, 5 years ago he was riding supermoto, now he looks like a solid top 5 guy just 4 races into his debut 450 GP season. If he can keep up this level of improvement in the coming seasons there's a chance he could leapfrog Desalle, Paulin etc. to be the next guy after Cairoli. Although Herlings will of course be in the mix then
I've got a Febvre fever

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