C'mon!!!

IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 12/4/2014 7:44am
12/4/2014 7:44am
nytsmaC wrote:
Say they are still dragging their feet and no ruling has been made before A1. Can he still line up and race, in hopes that his...
Say they are still dragging their feet and no ruling has been made before A1. Can he still line up and race, in hopes that his points won't be taken away at a later date? Or is he banned from competition?
This is what I was wondering. . . What does he have to lose by going this route right?

As for WADA, I posted this question in another thread but it never got a reply.

Super hypothetical question, if the AMA/FELD decides that USADA'S punishment is more than they care to hand down, or they decided that this time frame is more than they want to deal with, what can they do about it? Did they sign a contract with USADA for a certain time frame?
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 12/4/2014 7:46am
12/4/2014 7:46am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Most these other sports y'all are mentioning have players associations and/or players unions with policies and punishments that are collectively bargained.
What is your stance on this? Just curious. I can't figure out what you're getting at with your last two posts.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 7:46am
12/4/2014 7:46am Edited Date/Time 12/4/2014 7:51am
nytsmaC wrote:
Say they are still dragging their feet and no ruling has been made before A1. Can he still line up and race, in hopes that his...
Say they are still dragging their feet and no ruling has been made before A1. Can he still line up and race, in hopes that his points won't be taken away at a later date? Or is he banned from competition?
IWreckALot wrote:
This is what I was wondering. . . What does he have to lose by going this route right? As for WADA, I posted this question...
This is what I was wondering. . . What does he have to lose by going this route right?

As for WADA, I posted this question in another thread but it never got a reply.

Super hypothetical question, if the AMA/FELD decides that USADA'S punishment is more than they care to hand down, or they decided that this time frame is more than they want to deal with, what can they do about it? Did they sign a contract with USADA for a certain time frame?
I don't really know the answer to that. I did hear on the racerx podcast that WADA had the authority to overrule whatever discipline is handed down (whether that be too light or too heavy). Not sure how accurate that is, just passing the info along.
Skuzzy29
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Skuzzy29 12/4/2014 7:49am
12/4/2014 7:49am
nytsmaC wrote:
Say they are still dragging their feet and no ruling has been made before A1. Can he still line up and race, in hopes that his...
Say they are still dragging their feet and no ruling has been made before A1. Can he still line up and race, in hopes that his points won't be taken away at a later date? Or is he banned from competition?
He was provisionally suspended and not allowed to race. He was able to race outdoors because it isn't WADA and FIM. So I would think he still can't race SX until he's cleared.

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hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 7:50am
12/4/2014 7:50am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Most these other sports y'all are mentioning have players associations and/or players unions with policies and punishments that are collectively bargained.
IWreckALot wrote:
What is your stance on this? Just curious. I can't figure out what you're getting at with your last two posts.
My point about it not being WADA's fault is that from what has been told about the cycling world and other sports that are under the WADA umbrella, the long time it's taking isn't uncommon. I would assume that was know before the series signed on with WADA, so why would you expect WADA to change now? And regarding the players' associations and such, their disciplinary action is basically agreed upon by players and the league office. (Obviously, the NFL has not done a great job of it, haha).
Grieby54
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Grieby54 12/4/2014 8:06am
12/4/2014 8:06am
I'm just not 100% sure why we enlisted their services in the first place. We're essentially, as an organization, paying another organization to take power away. Yup, Stewart made a mistake by not filing the TUE. Does that mean that WADA should be able to ruin his season due to indecision, or worse, end his career? And for what? Because he didn't file a form for some ADD meds?

I hope whoever decided we needed this in our sport feels like a complete idiot right now.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 8:09am
12/4/2014 8:09am
Grieby54 wrote:
I'm just not 100% sure why we enlisted their services in the first place. We're essentially, as an organization, paying another organization to take power away...
I'm just not 100% sure why we enlisted their services in the first place. We're essentially, as an organization, paying another organization to take power away. Yup, Stewart made a mistake by not filing the TUE. Does that mean that WADA should be able to ruin his season due to indecision, or worse, end his career? And for what? Because he didn't file a form for some ADD meds?

I hope whoever decided we needed this in our sport feels like a complete idiot right now.
That's fair enough and a completely different question. But to use a lame analogy, if you a hire a duck and it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, don't get pissed off if it's not a goose.
peelout
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peelout 12/4/2014 8:12am
12/4/2014 8:12am
Cashmore wrote:
It's complete BS that it's taken this long. If it was really just adderal and he has a scrip wtf is the deal... We want answers!

kinda makes ya wonder if it "was really just adderal"

i'm not claiming it wasn't, but this seems like a pretty long drawn out decision over adderal, which is a banned substance but not a PED.

i for one am hoping it's all cleared up and we get to watch him, any time he's on the track is a great time to be a spectator
Panic_Rev
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Panic_Rev 12/4/2014 8:19am
12/4/2014 8:19am
Sorry if this same opinion has been posted, but my belief is: WADA already knows their decision, and they are dragging their feet to give a ruling. The ruling will come after 2-3 rounds with no punishment. The punishment being he had to sit out a few rounds while they decided.
jasonv43
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jasonv43 12/4/2014 8:21am
12/4/2014 8:21am
One Last Comeback wrote:
Why not post a link to what you read on Vurb? I don't see anything. What is Vurb's source? Why would Vurb know anything the rest...
Why not post a link to what you read on Vurb? I don't see anything.

What is Vurb's source? Why would Vurb know anything the rest of the moto media world doesn't?

Does anybody even take 2 seconds to look into the accuracy of things before expressing opinions?


http://vurbmoto.com/blogs/talking-points-14-james-stewarts-going-drug-c…
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 12/4/2014 8:22am
12/4/2014 8:22am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Most these other sports y'all are mentioning have players associations and/or players unions with policies and punishments that are collectively bargained.
IWreckALot wrote:
What is your stance on this? Just curious. I can't figure out what you're getting at with your last two posts.
hvaughn88 wrote:
My point about it not being WADA's fault is that from what has been told about the cycling world and other sports that are under the...
My point about it not being WADA's fault is that from what has been told about the cycling world and other sports that are under the WADA umbrella, the long time it's taking isn't uncommon. I would assume that was know before the series signed on with WADA, so why would you expect WADA to change now? And regarding the players' associations and such, their disciplinary action is basically agreed upon by players and the league office. (Obviously, the NFL has not done a great job of it, haha).
Ok I see where you're at now. FELD/AMA knew what WADA's process was before signing and therefore FELD/AMA was willing to accept their methods?

As for why FELD/AMA contracted with them I have no clue other than maybe Tony Allessi cried enough that they did it just to shut him up? It's a facetious allegation I know. Just can't help myself. The alternative would be developing your own drug testing policies which is probably more expensive and would have been more than FELD wanted? So the next option is to outsource and I'm sure you either take all of WADA or none of it. Meaning, you can't have them do the testing, and then not allow them to deliver the punishment.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 8:25am
12/4/2014 8:25am
IWreckALot wrote:
What is your stance on this? Just curious. I can't figure out what you're getting at with your last two posts.
hvaughn88 wrote:
My point about it not being WADA's fault is that from what has been told about the cycling world and other sports that are under the...
My point about it not being WADA's fault is that from what has been told about the cycling world and other sports that are under the WADA umbrella, the long time it's taking isn't uncommon. I would assume that was know before the series signed on with WADA, so why would you expect WADA to change now? And regarding the players' associations and such, their disciplinary action is basically agreed upon by players and the league office. (Obviously, the NFL has not done a great job of it, haha).
IWreckALot wrote:
Ok I see where you're at now. FELD/AMA knew what WADA's process was before signing and therefore FELD/AMA was willing to accept their methods? As for...
Ok I see where you're at now. FELD/AMA knew what WADA's process was before signing and therefore FELD/AMA was willing to accept their methods?

As for why FELD/AMA contracted with them I have no clue other than maybe Tony Allessi cried enough that they did it just to shut him up? It's a facetious allegation I know. Just can't help myself. The alternative would be developing your own drug testing policies which is probably more expensive and would have been more than FELD wanted? So the next option is to outsource and I'm sure you either take all of WADA or none of it. Meaning, you can't have them do the testing, and then not allow them to deliver the punishment.
yup, exactly. And I'm not claiming to have a fix for it or anything like that, because I don't and I'm not close enough to the situation to pass that judgment.
Dias374
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Dias374 12/4/2014 8:35am
12/4/2014 8:35am
The timeline does seem to be very stretched out, but why wasn't it taken seriously enough in the first place to make sure all of the ducks were in a row? There's a lot of blame to go around. In the end it wouldn't be a problem if the proper precaution was taken before the series had ever started.
JLong
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JLong 12/4/2014 8:42am
12/4/2014 8:42am
hvaughn88 wrote:
How is this WADA's fault?
Personal accountability went the way of the steam engine.
jonesaustin
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jonesaustin 12/4/2014 8:42am
12/4/2014 8:42am Edited Date/Time 12/4/2014 9:07am
this is just my opinion, but sadly many people thrive in bureaucracies, including corporate environments and even startups. they harbor an unspoken enjoyment of power, probably from a secret lack of true insight, and gleefully exist within an entanglement of policies and processes, most of which muck things up more than help. just guessing this is the issue here.

then of course there's always the person who says "you just don't understand how it works", and imo this person is usually part of the problem. their decision seems to be taking too long because it is taking too long, despite any peripheral scenarios we may not be privy to. it really is just that simple.
peelout
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peelout 12/4/2014 8:44am
12/4/2014 8:44am
bvm111 wrote:
Remember what I said last year....Be careful what you wish for! Last year everyone and their brother wanted them tested for everything, now it takes to...
Remember what I said last year....Be careful what you wish for!

Last year everyone and their brother wanted them tested for everything, now it takes to long and he should still be on the line????

I don't get it, maybe we should have passed the bill to see what was in it first... Oh yeah did that already too Wink Whistling

I want everyone on the line... This isn't the Olympics or NCAA collegiate sports. I will go on record as saying WADA and USADA are a complete and utter joke, right up there with man made climate change type of joke!!!Woohoo Woohoo Woohoo
i've been saying the same thing since day 1. be careful what you wish for
Grieby54
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Grieby54 12/4/2014 8:52am
12/4/2014 8:52am
Grieby54 wrote:
I'm just not 100% sure why we enlisted their services in the first place. We're essentially, as an organization, paying another organization to take power away...
I'm just not 100% sure why we enlisted their services in the first place. We're essentially, as an organization, paying another organization to take power away. Yup, Stewart made a mistake by not filing the TUE. Does that mean that WADA should be able to ruin his season due to indecision, or worse, end his career? And for what? Because he didn't file a form for some ADD meds?

I hope whoever decided we needed this in our sport feels like a complete idiot right now.
hvaughn88 wrote:
That's fair enough and a completely different question. But to use a lame analogy, if you a hire a duck and it looks like a duck...
That's fair enough and a completely different question. But to use a lame analogy, if you a hire a duck and it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, don't get pissed off if it's not a goose.
Totally agreed - they had to have known what they were getting into. I'm just surprised that they knew what they were bringing to the sport and still decided to bring it none-the-less.

What happens if the FIM/Feld just decide that he can ride? Does WADA say "No! We haven't announced one way or the other!" and then FIM/Feld says, "We don't care. He can ride."

Is there anything that WADA can do about that?
One Last Comeback 12/4/2014 8:54am
12/4/2014 8:54am
One Last Comeback wrote:
Why not post a link to what you read on Vurb? I don't see anything. What is Vurb's source? Why would Vurb know anything the rest...
Why not post a link to what you read on Vurb? I don't see anything.

What is Vurb's source? Why would Vurb know anything the rest of the moto media world doesn't?

Does anybody even take 2 seconds to look into the accuracy of things before expressing opinions?
jasonv43 wrote:


http://vurbmoto.com/blogs/talking-points-14-james-stewarts-going-drug-c…
Thanks- what I read is this:

"Unfortunately, the timeframe for a decision is much longer than the time until A1 so there is a very strong possibility that Stewart will just be sitting on the sidelines for at least a few races."

Not doubting the author, it's just that normal journalistic practice would be to cite a source or info to back up the statement or indicate why this article moves the conversation forward. It might just be conjecture.

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hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 8:55am
12/4/2014 8:55am
Grieby54 wrote:
I'm just not 100% sure why we enlisted their services in the first place. We're essentially, as an organization, paying another organization to take power away...
I'm just not 100% sure why we enlisted their services in the first place. We're essentially, as an organization, paying another organization to take power away. Yup, Stewart made a mistake by not filing the TUE. Does that mean that WADA should be able to ruin his season due to indecision, or worse, end his career? And for what? Because he didn't file a form for some ADD meds?

I hope whoever decided we needed this in our sport feels like a complete idiot right now.
hvaughn88 wrote:
That's fair enough and a completely different question. But to use a lame analogy, if you a hire a duck and it looks like a duck...
That's fair enough and a completely different question. But to use a lame analogy, if you a hire a duck and it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, don't get pissed off if it's not a goose.
Grieby54 wrote:
Totally agreed - they had to have known what they were getting into. I'm just surprised that they knew what they were bringing to the sport...
Totally agreed - they had to have known what they were getting into. I'm just surprised that they knew what they were bringing to the sport and still decided to bring it none-the-less.

What happens if the FIM/Feld just decide that he can ride? Does WADA say "No! We haven't announced one way or the other!" and then FIM/Feld says, "We don't care. He can ride."

Is there anything that WADA can do about that?
I don't really know that. I posted this a few posts up but not sure how much stock to put into it:


"I don't really know the answer to that. I did hear on the racerx podcast that WADA had the authority to overrule whatever discipline is handed down (whether that be too light or too heavy). Not sure how accurate that is, just passing the info along."
Grieby54
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Grieby54 12/4/2014 8:57am
12/4/2014 8:57am
hvaughn88 wrote:
That's fair enough and a completely different question. But to use a lame analogy, if you a hire a duck and it looks like a duck...
That's fair enough and a completely different question. But to use a lame analogy, if you a hire a duck and it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, don't get pissed off if it's not a goose.
Grieby54 wrote:
Totally agreed - they had to have known what they were getting into. I'm just surprised that they knew what they were bringing to the sport...
Totally agreed - they had to have known what they were getting into. I'm just surprised that they knew what they were bringing to the sport and still decided to bring it none-the-less.

What happens if the FIM/Feld just decide that he can ride? Does WADA say "No! We haven't announced one way or the other!" and then FIM/Feld says, "We don't care. He can ride."

Is there anything that WADA can do about that?
hvaughn88 wrote:
I don't really know that. I posted this a few posts up but not sure how much stock to put into it: "I don't really know...
I don't really know that. I posted this a few posts up but not sure how much stock to put into it:


"I don't really know the answer to that. I did hear on the racerx podcast that WADA had the authority to overrule whatever discipline is handed down (whether that be too light or too heavy). Not sure how accurate that is, just passing the info along."
I saw your post about the authority to overrule, but what are they going to do about it? Honestly? Fine FIM/Feld? And if they don't pay?

Not that you have the answers. Just musing aloud.
Kawaboy14
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Kawaboy14 12/4/2014 9:03am
12/4/2014 9:03am
People hate God in their lives making rules to live by but man they love paying and voting in the rules makers!
jonesaustin
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jonesaustin 12/4/2014 9:07am
12/4/2014 9:07am
Kawaboy14 wrote:
People hate God in their lives making rules to live by but man they love paying and voting in the rules makers!
interesting observation, well said.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 9:11am
12/4/2014 9:11am
Grieby54 wrote:
Totally agreed - they had to have known what they were getting into. I'm just surprised that they knew what they were bringing to the sport...
Totally agreed - they had to have known what they were getting into. I'm just surprised that they knew what they were bringing to the sport and still decided to bring it none-the-less.

What happens if the FIM/Feld just decide that he can ride? Does WADA say "No! We haven't announced one way or the other!" and then FIM/Feld says, "We don't care. He can ride."

Is there anything that WADA can do about that?
hvaughn88 wrote:
I don't really know that. I posted this a few posts up but not sure how much stock to put into it: "I don't really know...
I don't really know that. I posted this a few posts up but not sure how much stock to put into it:


"I don't really know the answer to that. I did hear on the racerx podcast that WADA had the authority to overrule whatever discipline is handed down (whether that be too light or too heavy). Not sure how accurate that is, just passing the info along."
Grieby54 wrote:
I saw your post about the authority to overrule, but what are they going to do about it? Honestly? Fine FIM/Feld? And if they don't pay...
I saw your post about the authority to overrule, but what are they going to do about it? Honestly? Fine FIM/Feld? And if they don't pay?

Not that you have the answers. Just musing aloud.
It will definitely be interesting, as it has the capabilities of setting a very strict or very relaxed precedent.
Zycki11
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Zycki11 12/4/2014 9:17am
12/4/2014 9:17am
peelout wrote:
i've been saying the same thing since day 1. be careful what you wish for
I am all for the testing. This is a professional sport that is trying to do the right things. Now with James, I think two things as wrong. First and foremost, why in the hell did he not follow the correct procedure? Everyone had guidelines and the time to do it correct. With that said, I also feel it is ignorant for them to take this long to make a decision. If in fact he misses three rounds and is allowed to race, I would say that is a better alternative to being forced into a early retirement. With an entire professional team, staff, doctors, and the largest manfriend possy of the top guys. Surely they wouldn't have missed this? Just my opinion
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yak651 12/4/2014 9:42am
12/4/2014 9:42am
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed to play or not?? What a joke, why doesn't Suzuki say they are going to take their ball and go home if a decision isn't made by X date? How can a company plan with the way this is going? Would make a good story for someone...
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 9:49am
12/4/2014 9:49am
yak651 wrote:
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed...
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed to play or not?? What a joke, why doesn't Suzuki say they are going to take their ball and go home if a decision isn't made by X date? How can a company plan with the way this is going? Would make a good story for someone...
Kinda like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson? Obviously I'm not comparing their actions, I'm just pointing out although it's a crappy situation to deal with, it's their situation to deal with. That's the nature of the beast of racing and motorsports since teams are basically just a guy or guys with a sponsor.
Zycki11
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Zycki11 12/4/2014 9:58am
12/4/2014 9:58am
yak651 wrote:
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed...
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed to play or not?? What a joke, why doesn't Suzuki say they are going to take their ball and go home if a decision isn't made by X date? How can a company plan with the way this is going? Would make a good story for someone...
Because he isn't RC, and In the middle/lead of a title fight. Ricky knew he was the number one guy, and that Feld would lose a ton of money of he walked away. Which in turn I am sure put pressure on the AMA to turn the penalty around. Funny, the same dumb rule caused reedy to spend some money on his parents coming over from Aussie only to be penalized and not win the championship that weekend. The AMA is and always has been a joke. When Feld spends the money they do, they should still allow the AMA to uphold the rules. At least nascar stays true with there rulings.
SEE ARE125 12/4/2014 10:06am
12/4/2014 10:06am
yak651 wrote:
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed...
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed to play or not?? What a joke, why doesn't Suzuki say they are going to take their ball and go home if a decision isn't made by X date? How can a company plan with the way this is going? Would make a good story for someone...
hvaughn88 wrote:
Kinda like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson? Obviously I'm not comparing their actions, I'm just pointing out although it's a crappy situation to deal with, it's [i]their[/i]...
Kinda like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson? Obviously I'm not comparing their actions, I'm just pointing out although it's a crappy situation to deal with, it's their situation to deal with. That's the nature of the beast of racing and motorsports since teams are basically just a guy or guys with a sponsor.
I think what yak is saying is that this is affecting more than Stewart and his job as a racer. It's affecting all the jobs of the people who make sure James has everything he needs. His mechanic, technicians at the Yoshimura race shop, etc, etc all the way down the line. I'm sure there are several guys at Yoshimura and Suzuki whose only job is to handle James Stewart's equipment. Not Baggett's or anyone else's. These people are also in limbo mode, not knowing if they're going to be working this season or not. This whole cluster affects more than just James and the crew he personally employees.
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hvaughn88 12/4/2014 10:12am
12/4/2014 10:12am
yak651 wrote:
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed...
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed to play or not?? What a joke, why doesn't Suzuki say they are going to take their ball and go home if a decision isn't made by X date? How can a company plan with the way this is going? Would make a good story for someone...
hvaughn88 wrote:
Kinda like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson? Obviously I'm not comparing their actions, I'm just pointing out although it's a crappy situation to deal with, it's [i]their[/i]...
Kinda like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson? Obviously I'm not comparing their actions, I'm just pointing out although it's a crappy situation to deal with, it's their situation to deal with. That's the nature of the beast of racing and motorsports since teams are basically just a guy or guys with a sponsor.
SEE ARE125 wrote:
I think what yak is saying is that this is affecting more than Stewart and his job as a racer. It's affecting all the jobs of...
I think what yak is saying is that this is affecting more than Stewart and his job as a racer. It's affecting all the jobs of the people who make sure James has everything he needs. His mechanic, technicians at the Yoshimura race shop, etc, etc all the way down the line. I'm sure there are several guys at Yoshimura and Suzuki whose only job is to handle James Stewart's equipment. Not Baggett's or anyone else's. These people are also in limbo mode, not knowing if they're going to be working this season or not. This whole cluster affects more than just James and the crew he personally employees.
Trust me, I completely understand what he's saying. As I said, "it's a crappy situation." I was trying to find a nice way to say what could easily be stated as "tough shit." Don't take what I'm saying as not feeling empathy towards those involved that had nothing to do with being in this predicament. But unfortunately, that empathy doesn't really matter in this case.
yak651
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yak651 12/4/2014 10:22am
12/4/2014 10:22am
yak651 wrote:
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed...
Can you imagine going into the opening week of the NFL season and the NE Patriots don't know if Tom Brady is going to be allowed to play or not?? What a joke, why doesn't Suzuki say they are going to take their ball and go home if a decision isn't made by X date? How can a company plan with the way this is going? Would make a good story for someone...
hvaughn88 wrote:
Kinda like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson? Obviously I'm not comparing their actions, I'm just pointing out although it's a crappy situation to deal with, it's [i]their[/i]...
Kinda like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson? Obviously I'm not comparing their actions, I'm just pointing out although it's a crappy situation to deal with, it's their situation to deal with. That's the nature of the beast of racing and motorsports since teams are basically just a guy or guys with a sponsor.
Kinda but not really. Rice was indefinitely suspended so his team cut him and moved on. He was able to appeal and get re-instated but now no one wants him...Guess kinda like Peterson who thought he had an agreement and was going to be able to play but then the league said no. At least in both of these cases a decision was made in about 2 months time. We are going on six months...

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