Why can't the U S A build a competitive MX bike?

hvaughn88 wrote:

Sorry to get away from this country chest pounding, but I have a question. There was an earlier thread about a Subaru but I wanna know...

Sorry to get away from this country chest pounding, but I have a question. There was an earlier thread about a Subaru but I wanna know what Subaru drivers have to say about them. Considering a forester for my wife and a crosstrek for our company vehicle. But I've never owned one and was wanting some input from people that have them.

Olson wrote:

The boxer diesel is a really reliable engine! I've only heard good things about their cars. My parents live on the country side and almost all...

The boxer diesel is a really reliable engine! I've only heard good things about their cars. My parents live on the country side and almost all of the people in that area drives a Forester. Subaru have succeeded with building a car with clearence under it. Most of the SUVs out there wont make it on gravel roads and in terrain. While Subaru easily gets around almost everywhere it still don't feels like a sail boat going 80mph on the freeway. the old Forester had the coupé windows, looks good but is not very sound proof. don't know if they still use those.

Julian wrote:

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality. A competitive MX...

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality.
A competitive MX bike is not one that can just RUN for hours and hours, it must have quite a few other high quality traits.
Have you ever opened the door of an Audi, got inside and played around with all the switches, buttons, look at and feel the plastic, look at the fit and finish - how the seams line up - how solid everything feels, now go get into a Japanese made Honda, (like the Honda Accord here in Poland) (you may have to look hard and find maybe an Acura model in the USA to actually find a made in Japan Honda), then get inside that Acura an do the same thing you did in the Audi (by the way, Audi designs its cars in Ingolstadt Germany and has them produced there, but also in Hungary and Spain)
Now after you get out of those two cars go and open the door of a brand new Ford Pickup and do the same thing, then be honest Do you think the level is the same?

hvaughn88 wrote:

Sorry to get away from this country chest pounding, but I have a question. There was an earlier thread about a Subaru but I wanna know...

Sorry to get away from this country chest pounding, but I have a question. There was an earlier thread about a Subaru but I wanna know what Subaru drivers have to say about them. Considering a forester for my wife and a crosstrek for our company vehicle. But I've never owned one and was wanting some input from people that have them.

Olson wrote:

The boxer diesel is a really reliable engine! I've only heard good things about their cars. My parents live on the country side and almost all...

The boxer diesel is a really reliable engine! I've only heard good things about their cars. My parents live on the country side and almost all of the people in that area drives a Forester. Subaru have succeeded with building a car with clearence under it. Most of the SUVs out there wont make it on gravel roads and in terrain. While Subaru easily gets around almost everywhere it still don't feels like a sail boat going 80mph on the freeway. the old Forester had the coupé windows, looks good but is not very sound proof. don't know if they still use those.

hvaughn88 wrote:

awesome. It's kind of one of those situations where everything I have read about them and seen when I looked at them I have absolutely loved...

awesome. It's kind of one of those situations where everything I have read about them and seen when I looked at them I have absolutely loved, but since I don't much about them I was just waiting to have my bubble burst by someone saying, "its a pile of shit" or something like that, haha. We are probably gonna go to the dealer and drive one this weekend.

Julian wrote:

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality. A competitive MX...

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality.
A competitive MX bike is not one that can just RUN for hours and hours, it must have quite a few other high quality traits.
Have you ever opened the door of an Audi, got inside and played around with all the switches, buttons, look at and feel the plastic, look at the fit and finish - how the seams line up - how solid everything feels, now go get into a Japanese made Honda, (like the Honda Accord here in Poland) (you may have to look hard and find maybe an Acura model in the USA to actually find a made in Japan Honda), then get inside that Acura an do the same thing you did in the Audi (by the way, Audi designs its cars in Ingolstadt Germany and has them produced there, but also in Hungary and Spain)
Now after you get out of those two cars go and open the door of a brand new Ford Pickup and do the same thing, then be honest Do you think the level is the same?

APLMAN99 wrote:

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest...

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest lesson I learned is that the only Audi to own is the Audi that's still under warranty. Wonderful performing cars when not broken, but the reliability was crap and plenty of other folks seemed to share these experiences. I'd still buy/lease a new Audi for myself, but I'd be getting rid of it before the warranty expired without question.

I've had good and bad experiences with Euro, Asian, and American brands. The old clichés don't really hold up any more. The notion that Toyota throws away their quality control program at their American plants is pure bullshit, and just a strawman that you're concocting to be provocative.

Olson wrote:

The boxer diesel is a really reliable engine! I've only heard good things about their cars. My parents live on the country side and almost all...

The boxer diesel is a really reliable engine! I've only heard good things about their cars. My parents live on the country side and almost all of the people in that area drives a Forester. Subaru have succeeded with building a car with clearence under it. Most of the SUVs out there wont make it on gravel roads and in terrain. While Subaru easily gets around almost everywhere it still don't feels like a sail boat going 80mph on the freeway. the old Forester had the coupé windows, looks good but is not very sound proof. don't know if they still use those.

hvaughn88 wrote:

awesome. It's kind of one of those situations where everything I have read about them and seen when I looked at them I have absolutely loved...

awesome. It's kind of one of those situations where everything I have read about them and seen when I looked at them I have absolutely loved, but since I don't much about them I was just waiting to have my bubble burst by someone saying, "its a pile of shit" or something like that, haha. We are probably gonna go to the dealer and drive one this weekend.

Olson wrote:

I don't see any reasons not getting one if it fulfills your requirements. Drive one and get your own opinion. They also come with great equipment...

I don't see any reasons not getting one if it fulfills your requirements. Drive one and get your own opinion. They also come with great equipment usually. The old Imprezas was poorly equiped but that's a "rally car" thing. So did the Lancer Evolution. Most cars comes with great equipment today since technology have gotten so far.

Olson wrote:

The 3.0 is a high end model and they are usually not a first choice as a second hand car.

Julian wrote:

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality. A competitive MX...

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality.
A competitive MX bike is not one that can just RUN for hours and hours, it must have quite a few other high quality traits.
Have you ever opened the door of an Audi, got inside and played around with all the switches, buttons, look at and feel the plastic, look at the fit and finish - how the seams line up - how solid everything feels, now go get into a Japanese made Honda, (like the Honda Accord here in Poland) (you may have to look hard and find maybe an Acura model in the USA to actually find a made in Japan Honda), then get inside that Acura an do the same thing you did in the Audi (by the way, Audi designs its cars in Ingolstadt Germany and has them produced there, but also in Hungary and Spain)
Now after you get out of those two cars go and open the door of a brand new Ford Pickup and do the same thing, then be honest Do you think the level is the same?

APLMAN99 wrote:

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest...

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest lesson I learned is that the only Audi to own is the Audi that's still under warranty. Wonderful performing cars when not broken, but the reliability was crap and plenty of other folks seemed to share these experiences. I'd still buy/lease a new Audi for myself, but I'd be getting rid of it before the warranty expired without question.

I've had good and bad experiences with Euro, Asian, and American brands. The old clichés don't really hold up any more. The notion that Toyota throws away their quality control program at their American plants is pure bullshit, and just a strawman that you're concocting to be provocative.

Olson wrote:

The 3.0 is a high end model and they are usually not a first choice as a second hand car.

Julian wrote:

The first MX bike I bought was a 1974 CR 125, quality product. I have owned a ton of cars, the best were the Civic and...

The first MX bike I bought was a 1974 CR 125, quality product.

I have owned a ton of cars, the best were the Civic and Accord

The Kentucky Toyota Camry I bought new rattled and was hard to resell.

Chevy, Ford, GM, are you kidding, never owned em - why would I ? I like quality products.

Some of you know what I am talking about

Some of you WANT to think we make good cars in the USA and will respond with your stories about your great USA cars. (more power to you, but I know better, so save it)

Some of you are thinking our strength is not in producing cars/motorcycles but in fields like Apple, Yahoo, Google, etc. you are right.

Everybody knows that German cars are light years better than American cars, AUDI against Chevy - are you kidding me? Of course the Germans kill us.

But guess what, the Japanese kill the Germans. Lexus vs Mercedes, Infiniti vs BMW.

So, lets all get over it, The USA is way down the list, that is just the way it is.

Now to the post. Everyone who knows MX knows the bike must be top quality to be competitive.

Will the USA EVER build a competitive (= quality and reliable) MX motorcycle?

APLMAN99 wrote:

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest...

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest lesson I learned is that the only Audi to own is the Audi that's still under warranty. Wonderful performing cars when not broken, but the reliability was crap and plenty of other folks seemed to share these experiences. I'd still buy/lease a new Audi for myself, but I'd be getting rid of it before the warranty expired without question.

I've had good and bad experiences with Euro, Asian, and American brands. The old clichés don't really hold up any more. The notion that Toyota throws away their quality control program at their American plants is pure bullshit, and just a strawman that you're concocting to be provocative.

Olson wrote:

The 3.0 is a high end model and they are usually not a first choice as a second hand car.

APLMAN99 wrote:

High ends means that the car's basic controls shouldn't have basic durability? I didn't have many complaints about the engine itself, other than the utterly ridiculous...

High ends means that the car's basic controls shouldn't have basic durability?

I didn't have many complaints about the engine itself, other than the utterly ridiculous timing chain/belt replacement nightmare, but nearly every switch or control on that car had to be replaced at one time or another. In the engine bay my biggest issue was the coolant temp sensor. I made the mistake of replacing the bad one with an OEM unit that lasted less than 20K miles, the "aftermarket" one I replaced that one with was still working when I got rid of it and had more than that on it at the time. That A4 is the only car I've owned that I actually had to change the clockspring on, and the assortment of different types of tools required to work in that area was mind boggling. It was as if there were 8 or 9 different engineering teams working on different parts and each used a different fastener format. I believe I had to use both a flat and Phillips screwdriver, a couple sizes of allen wrenches, and a couple sizes of torx, along with a few sockets. Nightmare to say the least.

Again, I'd drive a new Audi under warranty without an issue, but based on my anecdotal experience with reliability and others that I know of, I'd hesitate to own one not under warranty. The Quattro system worked phenomenally, though, so the performance was definitely a big plus.

Olson wrote:

The 3.0 is a high end model and they are usually not a first choice as a second hand car.

APLMAN99 wrote:

High ends means that the car's basic controls shouldn't have basic durability? I didn't have many complaints about the engine itself, other than the utterly ridiculous...

High ends means that the car's basic controls shouldn't have basic durability?

I didn't have many complaints about the engine itself, other than the utterly ridiculous timing chain/belt replacement nightmare, but nearly every switch or control on that car had to be replaced at one time or another. In the engine bay my biggest issue was the coolant temp sensor. I made the mistake of replacing the bad one with an OEM unit that lasted less than 20K miles, the "aftermarket" one I replaced that one with was still working when I got rid of it and had more than that on it at the time. That A4 is the only car I've owned that I actually had to change the clockspring on, and the assortment of different types of tools required to work in that area was mind boggling. It was as if there were 8 or 9 different engineering teams working on different parts and each used a different fastener format. I believe I had to use both a flat and Phillips screwdriver, a couple sizes of allen wrenches, and a couple sizes of torx, along with a few sockets. Nightmare to say the least.

Again, I'd drive a new Audi under warranty without an issue, but based on my anecdotal experience with reliability and others that I know of, I'd hesitate to own one not under warranty. The Quattro system worked phenomenally, though, so the performance was definitely a big plus.

Olson wrote:

It was probably an early 2000 model? Most manufacturers struggled with the new technology back then. BMW had major issues with their first models with a...

It was probably an early 2000 model? Most manufacturers struggled with the new technology back then. BMW had major issues with their first models with a lot of electronics like NAVI, electric windows, electric seats etc. All the extra computers installed in the cars screamed for maintenace. The early produced GM Saabs had similar problems. So did most. Your 3.0 probably came more equiped than a standard 1.8 or 2.0? Not defending the problems but this is very common with the first models new new technology.

APLMAN99 wrote:

High ends means that the car's basic controls shouldn't have basic durability? I didn't have many complaints about the engine itself, other than the utterly ridiculous...

High ends means that the car's basic controls shouldn't have basic durability?

I didn't have many complaints about the engine itself, other than the utterly ridiculous timing chain/belt replacement nightmare, but nearly every switch or control on that car had to be replaced at one time or another. In the engine bay my biggest issue was the coolant temp sensor. I made the mistake of replacing the bad one with an OEM unit that lasted less than 20K miles, the "aftermarket" one I replaced that one with was still working when I got rid of it and had more than that on it at the time. That A4 is the only car I've owned that I actually had to change the clockspring on, and the assortment of different types of tools required to work in that area was mind boggling. It was as if there were 8 or 9 different engineering teams working on different parts and each used a different fastener format. I believe I had to use both a flat and Phillips screwdriver, a couple sizes of allen wrenches, and a couple sizes of torx, along with a few sockets. Nightmare to say the least.

Again, I'd drive a new Audi under warranty without an issue, but based on my anecdotal experience with reliability and others that I know of, I'd hesitate to own one not under warranty. The Quattro system worked phenomenally, though, so the performance was definitely a big plus.

Olson wrote:

It was probably an early 2000 model? Most manufacturers struggled with the new technology back then. BMW had major issues with their first models with a...

It was probably an early 2000 model? Most manufacturers struggled with the new technology back then. BMW had major issues with their first models with a lot of electronics like NAVI, electric windows, electric seats etc. All the extra computers installed in the cars screamed for maintenace. The early produced GM Saabs had similar problems. So did most. Your 3.0 probably came more equiped than a standard 1.8 or 2.0? Not defending the problems but this is very common with the first models new new technology.

APLMAN99 wrote:

2002 non-nav. There was nothing new or revolutionary about power windows, power seats, blinkers, horns, etc. those had been around for many years. It wasn't new...

2002 non-nav. There was nothing new or revolutionary about power windows, power seats, blinkers, horns, etc. those had been around for many years. It wasn't new technology.

Olson wrote:

It was probably an early 2000 model? Most manufacturers struggled with the new technology back then. BMW had major issues with their first models with a...

It was probably an early 2000 model? Most manufacturers struggled with the new technology back then. BMW had major issues with their first models with a lot of electronics like NAVI, electric windows, electric seats etc. All the extra computers installed in the cars screamed for maintenace. The early produced GM Saabs had similar problems. So did most. Your 3.0 probably came more equiped than a standard 1.8 or 2.0? Not defending the problems but this is very common with the first models new new technology.

APLMAN99 wrote:

2002 non-nav. There was nothing new or revolutionary about power windows, power seats, blinkers, horns, etc. those had been around for many years. It wasn't new...

2002 non-nav. There was nothing new or revolutionary about power windows, power seats, blinkers, horns, etc. those had been around for many years. It wasn't new technology.

Olson wrote:

Yes, but you see those cars are not fully built in-house. Most parts are built in another country, imported and just installed at the factory. Like...

Yes, but you see those cars are not fully built in-house. Most parts are built in another country, imported and just installed at the factory. Like the first e90 models, the entertainment system and the blue tooth system are built in two different countries (Hungary). When they first started doing this they wasn't compatible in the way they thought. Just like the 2003 Saab 9-3 built by GM, the electric windows fell apart after just a year. Both companies had been using electric windows for years on their respective models.

newmann wrote:

Bought the sweetest, cleanest BMW X5M used from a good customer of mine. 555 hp twin turbo V8, 8 speed auto and all wheel drive. 50,000...

Bought the sweetest, cleanest BMW X5M used from a good customer of mine. 555 hp twin turbo V8, 8 speed auto and all wheel drive. 50,000 easy miles from him on a 2011 model driving from jewelry store to jewelry store. I get it and within two weeks, the airbag suspension has a leak. $800.00. Then it develops a metallic jingling noise that the dealer tells us is a recall issue on the right front drive axle. Replaced no charge but a brake fluid service/flush was required maint for $300.00. No biggie. Then the engine monitor tells us it's low on oil. No biggie until it's telling us that about every 1000-1500 miles. Not seeing any traces of leaks but can almost smell some oil burning. Dealer tells us it could be a vacuum pump issue but there are some oil lines that appear to be leaking and need to be changed first. $1100.00. As soon as we leave the dealer the oil light comes back on. No worries, I have a gallon of Castrol in the back. Jingling noise is still there, getting louder. Been a great three months...lol at the pile of shit BMW. What a neat vehicle though when it's not giving your wallet a blow job. One thing I said I would never do was buy a used BMW and then went off and did it anyway.

Meanwhile, my 01 Ford F250 is about to turn 200,000 miles in the next month or two.

Julian wrote:

The first MX bike I bought was a 1974 CR 125, quality product. I have owned a ton of cars, the best were the Civic and...

The first MX bike I bought was a 1974 CR 125, quality product.

I have owned a ton of cars, the best were the Civic and Accord

The Kentucky Toyota Camry I bought new rattled and was hard to resell.

Chevy, Ford, GM, are you kidding, never owned em - why would I ? I like quality products.

Some of you know what I am talking about

Some of you WANT to think we make good cars in the USA and will respond with your stories about your great USA cars. (more power to you, but I know better, so save it)

Some of you are thinking our strength is not in producing cars/motorcycles but in fields like Apple, Yahoo, Google, etc. you are right.

Everybody knows that German cars are light years better than American cars, AUDI against Chevy - are you kidding me? Of course the Germans kill us.

But guess what, the Japanese kill the Germans. Lexus vs Mercedes, Infiniti vs BMW.

So, lets all get over it, The USA is way down the list, that is just the way it is.

Now to the post. Everyone who knows MX knows the bike must be top quality to be competitive.

Will the USA EVER build a competitive (= quality and reliable) MX motorcycle?

Julian wrote:

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality. A competitive MX...

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality.
A competitive MX bike is not one that can just RUN for hours and hours, it must have quite a few other high quality traits.
Have you ever opened the door of an Audi, got inside and played around with all the switches, buttons, look at and feel the plastic, look at the fit and finish - how the seams line up - how solid everything feels, now go get into a Japanese made Honda, (like the Honda Accord here in Poland) (you may have to look hard and find maybe an Acura model in the USA to actually find a made in Japan Honda), then get inside that Acura an do the same thing you did in the Audi (by the way, Audi designs its cars in Ingolstadt Germany and has them produced there, but also in Hungary and Spain)
Now after you get out of those two cars go and open the door of a brand new Ford Pickup and do the same thing, then be honest Do you think the level is the same?

APLMAN99 wrote:

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest...

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest lesson I learned is that the only Audi to own is the Audi that's still under warranty. Wonderful performing cars when not broken, but the reliability was crap and plenty of other folks seemed to share these experiences. I'd still buy/lease a new Audi for myself, but I'd be getting rid of it before the warranty expired without question.

I've had good and bad experiences with Euro, Asian, and American brands. The old clichés don't really hold up any more. The notion that Toyota throws away their quality control program at their American plants is pure bullshit, and just a strawman that you're concocting to be provocative.

Julian wrote:

sorry, no strawmen here, I owned these cars, I had a Honda Accord too, made in Ohio, it was great, but the Kentucky Camry was not...

sorry, no strawmen here, I owned these cars, I had a Honda Accord too, made in Ohio, it was great, but the Kentucky Camry was not, now living in Poland I somehow ended up with a Turkish Toyota Verso, reminds me of my Kentucky Camry, not impressive,

Julian wrote:

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality. A competitive MX...

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality.
A competitive MX bike is not one that can just RUN for hours and hours, it must have quite a few other high quality traits.
Have you ever opened the door of an Audi, got inside and played around with all the switches, buttons, look at and feel the plastic, look at the fit and finish - how the seams line up - how solid everything feels, now go get into a Japanese made Honda, (like the Honda Accord here in Poland) (you may have to look hard and find maybe an Acura model in the USA to actually find a made in Japan Honda), then get inside that Acura an do the same thing you did in the Audi (by the way, Audi designs its cars in Ingolstadt Germany and has them produced there, but also in Hungary and Spain)
Now after you get out of those two cars go and open the door of a brand new Ford Pickup and do the same thing, then be honest Do you think the level is the same?

APLMAN99 wrote:

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest...

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest lesson I learned is that the only Audi to own is the Audi that's still under warranty. Wonderful performing cars when not broken, but the reliability was crap and plenty of other folks seemed to share these experiences. I'd still buy/lease a new Audi for myself, but I'd be getting rid of it before the warranty expired without question.

I've had good and bad experiences with Euro, Asian, and American brands. The old clichés don't really hold up any more. The notion that Toyota throws away their quality control program at their American plants is pure bullshit, and just a strawman that you're concocting to be provocative.

Julian wrote:

sorry, no strawmen here, I owned these cars, I had a Honda Accord too, made in Ohio, it was great, but the Kentucky Camry was not...

sorry, no strawmen here, I owned these cars, I had a Honda Accord too, made in Ohio, it was great, but the Kentucky Camry was not, now living in Poland I somehow ended up with a Turkish Toyota Verso, reminds me of my Kentucky Camry, not impressive,

Julian wrote:

The first MX bike I bought was a 1974 CR 125, quality product. I have owned a ton of cars, the best were the Civic and...

The first MX bike I bought was a 1974 CR 125, quality product.

I have owned a ton of cars, the best were the Civic and Accord

The Kentucky Toyota Camry I bought new rattled and was hard to resell.

Chevy, Ford, GM, are you kidding, never owned em - why would I ? I like quality products.

Some of you know what I am talking about

Some of you WANT to think we make good cars in the USA and will respond with your stories about your great USA cars. (more power to you, but I know better, so save it)

Some of you are thinking our strength is not in producing cars/motorcycles but in fields like Apple, Yahoo, Google, etc. you are right.

Everybody knows that German cars are light years better than American cars, AUDI against Chevy - are you kidding me? Of course the Germans kill us.

But guess what, the Japanese kill the Germans. Lexus vs Mercedes, Infiniti vs BMW.

So, lets all get over it, The USA is way down the list, that is just the way it is.

Now to the post. Everyone who knows MX knows the bike must be top quality to be competitive.

Will the USA EVER build a competitive (= quality and reliable) MX motorcycle?

white devil wrote:

Wow. What an idiot

OldYZRider1 wrote:

This came close. (sigh) [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/10/28/68921/s1200_image.jpg[/img]

This came close. (sigh)

Julian wrote:

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality. A competitive MX...

I know people feel we have "quality Ford Pickups", but when I use the word quality I mean the whole picture of quality.
A competitive MX bike is not one that can just RUN for hours and hours, it must have quite a few other high quality traits.
Have you ever opened the door of an Audi, got inside and played around with all the switches, buttons, look at and feel the plastic, look at the fit and finish - how the seams line up - how solid everything feels, now go get into a Japanese made Honda, (like the Honda Accord here in Poland) (you may have to look hard and find maybe an Acura model in the USA to actually find a made in Japan Honda), then get inside that Acura an do the same thing you did in the Audi (by the way, Audi designs its cars in Ingolstadt Germany and has them produced there, but also in Hungary and Spain)
Now after you get out of those two cars go and open the door of a brand new Ford Pickup and do the same thing, then be honest Do you think the level is the same?

APLMAN99 wrote:

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest...

After purchasing an A4 3.0 Quattro for my oldest daughter and having to learn to do so many of the non-engine related repairs myself, the biggest lesson I learned is that the only Audi to own is the Audi that's still under warranty. Wonderful performing cars when not broken, but the reliability was crap and plenty of other folks seemed to share these experiences. I'd still buy/lease a new Audi for myself, but I'd be getting rid of it before the warranty expired without question.

I've had good and bad experiences with Euro, Asian, and American brands. The old clichés don't really hold up any more. The notion that Toyota throws away their quality control program at their American plants is pure bullshit, and just a strawman that you're concocting to be provocative.

Olson wrote:

But it's so very ugly!?

steed 2.0 wrote:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I drive an "Audi " and for MX transport Mercedes Sprinter, It's a German

Olson wrote:

That is correct. My eyes tells me hell no. It's probably tits to drive. Still looks like a car out of a fast and furious movie...

That is correct. My eyes tells me hell no. It's probably tits to drive. Still looks like a car out of a fast and furious movie. I too drive a Mercedes Sprinter for moto. Currently a Volvo for daily use because they are cheap here and spares cost nada. Going to sell it asap for another German diesel. No reason to drive a petrolium car around here anymore.