Aussie National Rules Changes

#991
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#991 10/8/2014 2:03pm
10/8/2014 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:14pm
...

Underground 10/8/2014 2:20pm
10/8/2014 2:20pm

125 125 125 125, 144 44 44 44 44, 150!! 150 150 150 150, 167!!!!! 67 67 67 67 .............
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 2:22pm
10/8/2014 2:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:14pm
Underground wrote:
[img]https://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2007/11/auctioneer.jpg[/img] 125 125 125 125, 144 44 44 44 44, 150!! 150 150 150 150, 167!!!!! 67 67 67 67 .............

125 125 125 125, 144 44 44 44 44, 150!! 150 150 150 150, 167!!!!! 67 67 67 67 .............
...
Underground 10/8/2014 2:30pm
10/8/2014 2:30pm
Isn't a 250cc bike a legal variation of a 125cc? I mean, it's got ports and reeds and a funky pipe an all?

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#991
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#991 10/8/2014 2:52pm
10/8/2014 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:14pm
Underground wrote:
Isn't a 250cc bike a legal variation of a 125cc? I mean, it's got ports and reeds and a funky pipe an all?
...
headache
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headache 10/8/2014 2:53pm
10/8/2014 2:53pm
sounds like Ktm needs to make the 250sx have some "factory" porting giving it a few more ponies stock.. Theres more than one way to skin a cat!
haydos25
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haydos25 10/8/2014 4:35pm
10/8/2014 4:35pm
#991 wrote:
...

That argument was blown out of the water nearly a decade ago. A good rider on a 125 in a field of inferior riders is absolutely competitive and will more than likely wax all of them. However if you put two equal riders on a track, one on a 125 and one on a 250F then its a no brainer.

Arguing anything else is never going to fly, otherwise pro's would still be riding them at a national level all over the world.

There seems to be one major theme in two stroke arguments, the idea that they are a cheaper way to go and keeps riders in the sport and on the start line. Spending thousands of dollars modifying these engines goes against that argument. So if this rule helps quell that temptation then its a good thing in my opinion. Its debatable whether it will lower the costs as people will find a way around it as usual. One thing that is guaranteed is that guys will still race them locally and in the right hands a stock engined 250sx will still be competitive against the modified 250F's, atleast off the line anyways.
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 4:45pm
10/8/2014 4:45pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:15pm
#991 wrote:
...

haydos25 wrote:
That argument was blown out of the water nearly a decade ago. A good rider on a 125 in a field of inferior riders is absolutely...
That argument was blown out of the water nearly a decade ago. A good rider on a 125 in a field of inferior riders is absolutely competitive and will more than likely wax all of them. However if you put two equal riders on a track, one on a 125 and one on a 250F then its a no brainer.

Arguing anything else is never going to fly, otherwise pro's would still be riding them at a national level all over the world.

There seems to be one major theme in two stroke arguments, the idea that they are a cheaper way to go and keeps riders in the sport and on the start line. Spending thousands of dollars modifying these engines goes against that argument. So if this rule helps quell that temptation then its a good thing in my opinion. Its debatable whether it will lower the costs as people will find a way around it as usual. One thing that is guaranteed is that guys will still race them locally and in the right hands a stock engined 250sx will still be competitive against the modified 250F's, atleast off the line anyways.
...
haydos25
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haydos25 10/8/2014 4:55pm
10/8/2014 4:55pm
What does a stock 250F have to do with anything. Mods on those are allowed, but my guess is they are still over 40 HP stock.

Im confused about what you're getting at? Do you want a 125 2 stroke v 250F class but the 125's are allowed to run big bores? How big? I'm having a bit of trouble following your train of thought.

125's get waxed by 250f's all things being equal, that has pretty much been the case for over 10 years now.

CC for CC is a closer match and WEM is trying a bitof tinkering with the edges to try and even the balance out for privateers and manufacturers alike, I dont know if its perfect but a lot of people have thrown them under the bus before we've even seen a wheel turned in anger.
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 5:00pm
10/8/2014 5:00pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:15pm
...
haydos25
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haydos25 10/8/2014 5:09pm
10/8/2014 5:09pm
#991 wrote:
...
Once again 125's havent been a part of the class for a decade. Nobody rides them at the professional level anymore and ever will again. If they're still in the rule book as eligible in the class then it would just be pedantics to take them out with no affect on anybody who is looking at racing the nationals.

I'm telling you right now there are many 250f's making much more then 38 HP so i'm not sure exactly how worked your mates bike is, and i wont comment on your bike specifically as im sure its the fastest and easiest 125 to ride thats ever graced a track; but in my experience theres a fairly good chance that his 37.5 HP gets put to the ground easier then your 38 HP.

I'm gonna bail out of this thread now as im not sure we're going to make any further progress.


Just to clarify I currently race a YZ250 2 stroke in the lites class so im not talking in any way from a 4 stroke lover boy standpoint.
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 5:15pm
10/8/2014 5:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:16pm
...
haydos25
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haydos25 10/8/2014 5:24pm
10/8/2014 5:24pm
#991 wrote:
...
Good story, sounds like a very impressive RIDER. Must have been a blast to watch somebody with those skills ride your bike.
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 5:30pm
10/8/2014 5:30pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:16pm
#991 wrote:
...
haydos25 wrote:
Good story, sounds like a very impressive RIDER. Must have been a blast to watch somebody with those skills ride your bike.
...

#991
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#991 10/8/2014 5:47pm
10/8/2014 5:47pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:17pm
#991 wrote:
...
haydos25 wrote:
Once again 125's havent been a part of the class for a decade. Nobody rides them at the professional level anymore and ever will again. If...
Once again 125's havent been a part of the class for a decade. Nobody rides them at the professional level anymore and ever will again. If they're still in the rule book as eligible in the class then it would just be pedantics to take them out with no affect on anybody who is looking at racing the nationals.

I'm telling you right now there are many 250f's making much more then 38 HP so i'm not sure exactly how worked your mates bike is, and i wont comment on your bike specifically as im sure its the fastest and easiest 125 to ride thats ever graced a track; but in my experience theres a fairly good chance that his 37.5 HP gets put to the ground easier then your 38 HP.

I'm gonna bail out of this thread now as im not sure we're going to make any further progress.


Just to clarify I currently race a YZ250 2 stroke in the lites class so im not talking in any way from a 4 stroke lover boy standpoint.
...
Underground 10/8/2014 8:59pm
10/8/2014 8:59pm
Care to put your bike where your money is? How about an organised shootout with a National caliber 250F, 250 2T modified within the new rules and yours? Could give you plenty of exposure if everything you say is true. And I'm sure one of the Aussie journo's (which discounts MXGeoff) that read this site all the time could contact you to organise it. Aaryn you there? Sounds like a great story to me. Open lights class shootout. 3 different bikes. 3 different tracks. 3 different winners?
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 9:19pm
10/8/2014 9:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:41pm
Underground wrote:
Care to put your bike where your money is? How about an organised shootout with a National caliber 250F, 250 2T modified within the new rules...
Care to put your bike where your money is? How about an organised shootout with a National caliber 250F, 250 2T modified within the new rules and yours? Could give you plenty of exposure if everything you say is true. And I'm sure one of the Aussie journo's (which discounts MXGeoff) that read this site all the time could contact you to organise it. Aaryn you there? Sounds like a great story to me. Open lights class shootout. 3 different bikes. 3 different tracks. 3 different winners?
...
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 10:06pm
10/8/2014 10:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:41pm
...

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Kawasaki572
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Kawasaki572 10/8/2014 11:37pm
10/8/2014 11:37pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2014 11:38pm
Underground wrote:
Care to put your bike where your money is? How about an organised shootout with a National caliber 250F, 250 2T modified within the new rules...
Care to put your bike where your money is? How about an organised shootout with a National caliber 250F, 250 2T modified within the new rules and yours? Could give you plenty of exposure if everything you say is true. And I'm sure one of the Aussie journo's (which discounts MXGeoff) that read this site all the time could contact you to organise it. Aaryn you there? Sounds like a great story to me. Open lights class shootout. 3 different bikes. 3 different tracks. 3 different winners?
#991 wrote:
...
Question.... What modifications do you have on your 167cc besides the ported 167cc top end? Also, how does it compare to the 144cc and 250Fs? One more question.... Is the 167cc only available for YZ125's? Awesome bike btw.
#991
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#991 10/8/2014 11:52pm
10/8/2014 11:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:18pm
Underground wrote:
Care to put your bike where your money is? How about an organised shootout with a National caliber 250F, 250 2T modified within the new rules...
Care to put your bike where your money is? How about an organised shootout with a National caliber 250F, 250 2T modified within the new rules and yours? Could give you plenty of exposure if everything you say is true. And I'm sure one of the Aussie journo's (which discounts MXGeoff) that read this site all the time could contact you to organise it. Aaryn you there? Sounds like a great story to me. Open lights class shootout. 3 different bikes. 3 different tracks. 3 different winners?
#991 wrote:
...
Kawasaki572 wrote:
Question.... What modifications do you have on your 167cc besides the ported 167cc top end? Also, how does it compare to the 144cc and 250Fs? One...
Question.... What modifications do you have on your 167cc besides the ported 167cc top end? Also, how does it compare to the 144cc and 250Fs? One more question.... Is the 167cc only available for YZ125's? Awesome bike btw.
...
Underground 10/9/2014 12:10am
10/9/2014 12:10am
Shouldn't really as these rules only apply to the Nationals? And with only 5 guys on the line at a National, I hope that wasn't his core business.
#991
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#991 10/9/2014 12:15am
10/9/2014 12:15am Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:18pm
Underground wrote:
Shouldn't really as these rules only apply to the Nationals? And with only 5 guys on the line at a National, I hope that wasn't his...
Shouldn't really as these rules only apply to the Nationals? And with only 5 guys on the line at a National, I hope that wasn't his core business.
...
Underground 10/9/2014 12:19am
10/9/2014 12:19am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2014 12:21am
As a side question, does this rule apply to under 250 2T? As in racing a KTM200SX and modifying that? As you think a 167 will kill it, surely a 200 will kill it dead twice* And would be easier and cheaper to purchase, built and maintain. I actually nearly went this route back in the 2T days as I was dropping anchor pretty bad at 20 min mark and thought the difference would make up for itself in the last 10 plus 2. Sadly I didn't. I now owe a 200 though and think it matches local mildly tuned 250F's at the track fairly well in a very standard state of tune.
#991
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#991 10/9/2014 12:25am
10/9/2014 12:25am Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:18pm
Underground wrote:
As a side question, does this rule apply to under 250 2T? As in racing a KTM200SX and modifying that? As you think a 167 will...
As a side question, does this rule apply to under 250 2T? As in racing a KTM200SX and modifying that? As you think a 167 will kill it, surely a 200 will kill it dead twice* And would be easier and cheaper to purchase, built and maintain. I actually nearly went this route back in the 2T days as I was dropping anchor pretty bad at 20 min mark and thought the difference would make up for itself in the last 10 plus 2. Sadly I didn't. I now owe a 200 though and think it matches local mildly tuned 250F's at the track fairly well in a very standard state of tune.
...
Crush
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Crush 10/9/2014 12:30am
10/9/2014 12:30am
991 have you thought about opening up the airbox on that RM? And does Moto Tassinari make an airboot you work with the carby? The old PDS ktms were great because of that straight shot in the airbox tract...
#991
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#991 10/9/2014 12:32am
10/9/2014 12:32am Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 8:19pm
Crush wrote:
991 have you thought about opening up the airbox on that RM? And does Moto Tassinari make an airboot you work with the carby? The old...
991 have you thought about opening up the airbox on that RM? And does Moto Tassinari make an airboot you work with the carby? The old PDS ktms were great because of that straight shot in the airbox tract...
...
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Crush 10/9/2014 12:48am
10/9/2014 12:48am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2014 12:49am
Ya they're definitely not cheap! I always remember when looking at the AF conversions how the factory Honda guys said their 97 125 was a rocket and their 98 was a turd. Same motor. Final Drive. Pipe. Everything.

The biggest change was the airboot shape and space and travel. They're so much more constricted than they used to be.
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Bearuno 10/9/2014 1:08am
10/9/2014 1:08am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2014 1:09am
What's the problem with relation to 125cc 2ts and their modified / oversized variants in the MX2 class?

The MA rules for MX2 that I can access - 2014, had, simply, up to 250cc listed. No rules relating to bore and stroke mods for 125 / 144 /150 based bikes.

The new, restrictive 2015 MX2 rule only seems to apply to 250cc 2 strokes.

So, those that feel well suited to / confident they can be competitive on smaller 2ts, seem to be able to make use of #991's 'engine builders'. Yes, they, the 'engine builders', lose out on 250 2t business, but the bikes #991 seems so devoted to (and, I don't blame him for being devoted to them - great things) don't appear to be restricted.

So, a rider who feels competitive on a highly modded (well even a standard) 125 / 150 base engine, still appears to be allowed to 'have at it'.So, 'have at it', boys!
MC_Hammered 10/9/2014 1:58am
10/9/2014 1:58am
G'day Mate,

It's great to see someone post some cdf (common dog F@$k) on here in regards to this topic. And no disrespect to any other point of views etc as we are all entitled to our own. But my favourite is in relation to the use of semis. I would rather see the extra money used to parade one of them around Australia on a extra rider or support staff etc and run out of a couple of sprinter vans (taking into account the marketing tool they are used for). We go to the races to race dirt bikes not trucks.

Great post and a great topic that causes a lot of controversy in Australia resulting in a lot of sandy Vag!?&s down here.

M C Hammerd again!
Underground 10/9/2014 2:38am
10/9/2014 2:38am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2014 2:48am
Underground wrote:
As a side question, does this rule apply to under 250 2T? As in racing a KTM200SX and modifying that? As you think a 167 will...
As a side question, does this rule apply to under 250 2T? As in racing a KTM200SX and modifying that? As you think a 167 will kill it, surely a 200 will kill it dead twice* And would be easier and cheaper to purchase, built and maintain. I actually nearly went this route back in the 2T days as I was dropping anchor pretty bad at 20 min mark and thought the difference would make up for itself in the last 10 plus 2. Sadly I didn't. I now owe a 200 though and think it matches local mildly tuned 250F's at the track fairly well in a very standard state of tune.
#991 wrote:
...

This would be interesting but unsure as to how legit it would be in the class given homologation?
[/img]http://www.mxfreakspix.com/Friends/Cameron-955/i-Hf7PQB7/0/L/DSC2040-L…]

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