James Stewart is not a cheater

gsxrcr28
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6/26/2014 4:31pm
smeg wrote:
You can still fail, even wit a TUE.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Now that would be dumb Laughing
smeg wrote:
Why?
I would assume the rider would be taking more than they are prescribed for, which could possibly be dangerous and unhealthy.

I'm sorry Smeg but this is getting a little boring, yes I think I have ADHD.
smeg
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6/26/2014 4:35pm
So stop posting......
gsxrcr28
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6/26/2014 4:37pm
smeg wrote:
So stop posting......
I was being polite and answering your question.

Good day sir Smile
smeg
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6/26/2014 4:54pm
I owe you an apology.............. I misunderstood your post. I read it as you saying it was dumb of me to think someone could fail while being in possession of a TUE. I see that is not the case and that you saw where I was coming from in regards to over-medicating.................. Blush

and a good evening to you...................

The Shop

gsxrcr28
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6/26/2014 4:59pm
smeg wrote:
I owe you an apology.............. I misunderstood your post. I read it as you saying it was dumb of me to think someone could fail while...
I owe you an apology.............. I misunderstood your post. I read it as you saying it was dumb of me to think someone could fail while being in possession of a TUE. I see that is not the case and that you saw where I was coming from in regards to over-medicating.................. Blush

and a good evening to you...................
No prob at all.

Thanks
yosmithy
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6/26/2014 5:11pm
For those of you that have been diagnosed with ADD and prescribed Adderal. Do you ride better when you are taking it?
APLMAN99
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6/26/2014 5:20pm
LoudLove wrote:
My story is similar to APLMAN's (son with ADHD, immediate improvement with the pill, etc.) So one day I decide to take one (Concerta), just to...
My story is similar to APLMAN's (son with ADHD, immediate improvement with the pill, etc.) So one day I decide to take one (Concerta), just to see what it's like.

So, what's it like? Holy S**t! The ability to focus and absorb information and data explodes exponentially. Watching an endless parade of power point presentations can turn excruciating very quickly, and your mind wanders elsewhere. But when on Concerta, you are locked into the presenter's every word. Even the most trivial of topics becomes a bench racing session!

For those with true ADHD, these medications can change their world. For my son, the "smart pills" allow him to be normal, as many have said. Diagnosing him for ADHD was an extended process which included brain scans to eliminate seizures as a possible cause of his attention issues. But after taking Concerta myself, it's ability to enhance athletic performance is hard to argue. It's an incredible tool, and one that can provide an edge in competitive environments.

My son did have a short time of Concerta somewhere between Ritalin and Adderall, with a couple of attempts at using anti-depressants in there also. The Concerta made him almost completely stop eating. As in COMPLETELY stop. He never wanted to eat so his doctor ended that experiment just a few months into it.

My son still sees his doctor at least once a month, along with his counselor at least weekly.
APLMAN99
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6/26/2014 5:27pm
yosmithy wrote:
For those of you that have been diagnosed with ADD and prescribed Adderal. Do you ride better when you are taking it?
Haven't ridden moto (or dirt at all really) since I was diagnosed, but I definitely "daydream" less while driving or riding on the street so I'd assume that it'd help a true ADHD patient when riding or racing.

I'm also in agreement with Cox about the percentage of really fast MXers with ADHD (diagnosed or not) is likely much higher than the general population. All of the fastest local guys I grew up around were so high strung, but I had no idea what ADHD even was back then. Looking back, some of the signs definitely make you think they probably had something like ADHD going on.
LoudLove
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6/26/2014 5:34pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
My son did have a short time of Concerta somewhere between Ritalin and Adderall, with a couple of attempts at using anti-depressants in there also. The...
My son did have a short time of Concerta somewhere between Ritalin and Adderall, with a couple of attempts at using anti-depressants in there also. The Concerta made him almost completely stop eating. As in COMPLETELY stop. He never wanted to eat so his doctor ended that experiment just a few months into it.

My son still sees his doctor at least once a month, along with his counselor at least weekly.
The appetite suppression is a common side effect. Per our physician's instructions we load him up with calories before heading to school, and cut back on dosages during the summer. During my "experiment" with Concerta my appetite fell off dramatically, and even after 8 hours without eating I wasn't hungry. Want to be more productive AND shed unwanted pounds? Get yourself an ADHD diagnosis!

Fortunately he's a great kid making straight A's and well-liked. But without the Concerta, he will "zone out", and it takes a bit of effort to reel him back in.
APLMAN99
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6/26/2014 6:20pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
My son did have a short time of Concerta somewhere between Ritalin and Adderall, with a couple of attempts at using anti-depressants in there also. The...
My son did have a short time of Concerta somewhere between Ritalin and Adderall, with a couple of attempts at using anti-depressants in there also. The Concerta made him almost completely stop eating. As in COMPLETELY stop. He never wanted to eat so his doctor ended that experiment just a few months into it.

My son still sees his doctor at least once a month, along with his counselor at least weekly.
LoudLove wrote:
The appetite suppression is a common side effect. Per our physician's instructions we load him up with calories before heading to school, and cut back on...
The appetite suppression is a common side effect. Per our physician's instructions we load him up with calories before heading to school, and cut back on dosages during the summer. During my "experiment" with Concerta my appetite fell off dramatically, and even after 8 hours without eating I wasn't hungry. Want to be more productive AND shed unwanted pounds? Get yourself an ADHD diagnosis!

Fortunately he's a great kid making straight A's and well-liked. But without the Concerta, he will "zone out", and it takes a bit of effort to reel him back in.
Both Ritalin and Adderall have given both of us a subdued appetite, but for some reason the Concerta went far beyond for him.

There are times since switching to Adderall that I "forget" to eat during the day, and I start to get a little shaky. I've started carrying granola bars with me and set timers to remind me to have a snack. I can now get so into stuff at work that I used to not be able to focus on for more than a few minutes.
JYZ566
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6/26/2014 7:00pm
yosmithy wrote:
For those of you that have been diagnosed with ADD and prescribed Adderal. Do you ride better when you are taking it?
Not really, no. I actually stopped taking it on days I was going racing or riding so I would eat more, stay hydrated, and sleep better that night. I switched to Provigil now, however, and it's much better than Adderal for me (less shaky/jittery/wired). I tried riding whilst being "on" twice and noticed no difference.
dirthead1
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6/26/2014 7:26pm
yosmithy wrote:
For those of you that have been diagnosed with ADD and prescribed Adderal. Do you ride better when you are taking it?
I think mixing beers and my friend's Adderall pills makes me the best rider.
yosmithy
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6/26/2014 7:40pm
Ok, let's play make believe:

Example 1.
Cox in his natural non-medicated state has ADD (Symptoms)
Me in his natural non-medicated state does not have ADD
With these conditions I can beat Cox racing.

Example 2.
Cox in his non-natural medicated state does not have ADD (symptoms)
Me in his natural non-medicated state does not have ADD
With these conditions I cannot beat Cox racing.


is example 2 fair to me?
APLMAN99
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6/26/2014 8:12pm
yosmithy wrote:
Ok, let's play make believe: Example 1. Cox in his natural non-medicated state has ADD (Symptoms) Me in his natural non-medicated state does not have ADD...
Ok, let's play make believe:

Example 1.
Cox in his natural non-medicated state has ADD (Symptoms)
Me in his natural non-medicated state does not have ADD
With these conditions I can beat Cox racing.

Example 2.
Cox in his non-natural medicated state does not have ADD (symptoms)
Me in his natural non-medicated state does not have ADD
With these conditions I cannot beat Cox racing.


is example 2 fair to me?
Depends, I suppose.

Let's say.....

You, with untreated asthma, can't breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
Cox beats you in this situation.

You, with your inhaler, can breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
You beat Cox when you can both breathe.

Fair?
yosmithy
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6/26/2014 8:14pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Depends, I suppose. Let's say..... You, with untreated asthma, can't breathe. Cox, without asthma, can breathe. Cox beats you in this situation. You, with your inhaler...
Depends, I suppose.

Let's say.....

You, with untreated asthma, can't breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
Cox beats you in this situation.

You, with your inhaler, can breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
You beat Cox when you can both breathe.

Fair?
My two conditions are the only variables
APLMAN99
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6/26/2014 8:27pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Depends, I suppose. Let's say..... You, with untreated asthma, can't breathe. Cox, without asthma, can breathe. Cox beats you in this situation. You, with your inhaler...
Depends, I suppose.

Let's say.....

You, with untreated asthma, can't breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
Cox beats you in this situation.

You, with your inhaler, can breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
You beat Cox when you can both breathe.

Fair?
yosmithy wrote:
My two conditions are the only variables
I'm not sure I follow you.

It seemed that you were wondering if taking meds to help correct a medical issue made it unfair to other racers. In your scenario, Cox's meds made him able to race against you and win. In my scenario, your meds made you able to race against Cox and win. No real difference, other than emotional perception.
yosmithy
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6/26/2014 8:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2014 8:50pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Depends, I suppose. Let's say..... You, with untreated asthma, can't breathe. Cox, without asthma, can breathe. Cox beats you in this situation. You, with your inhaler...
Depends, I suppose.

Let's say.....

You, with untreated asthma, can't breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
Cox beats you in this situation.

You, with your inhaler, can breathe.
Cox, without asthma, can breathe.
You beat Cox when you can both breathe.

Fair?
yosmithy wrote:
My two conditions are the only variables
APLMAN99 wrote:
I'm not sure I follow you. It seemed that you were wondering if taking meds to help correct a medical issue made it unfair to other...
I'm not sure I follow you.

It seemed that you were wondering if taking meds to help correct a medical issue made it unfair to other racers. In your scenario, Cox's meds made him able to race against you and win. In my scenario, your meds made you able to race against Cox and win. No real difference, other than emotional perception.
I didn't take any meds in my scenario:

Very simple equation

Cox in his natural UN-medicated state cannot beat me in and UN-medicated natural state in a race. If he takes medication, then he can beat me.
No other variables.....so, is that fair to me, just because he is diagnosed with a mental condition (sorry, meant disorder) Eidted. and I am not?


Nerd
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6/26/2014 8:49pm
smeg wrote:
Well according to that we would have to have been on Adderal for the last 4 years. It was posted 2 years ago and she says...
Well according to that we would have to have been on Adderal for the last 4 years. It was posted 2 years ago and she says he was prescribed Adderal 2 years prior to the post.

If that's the case and he has passed drug screens the past four years then he must of had a TUE, right? So that would indicate he was aware for the last four years that he had to have a TUE. So he either didn't get a TUE exemption this time or he tested above the limit allowed by his TUE.

This, of couse is assuming it was JSs' mom. I highley doubt it considering he was a multimillionaire 4 years ago and able to afford excellent medical care. I mean why would his mom have to post on justanswer. I can only assuming that being his mom, the mom of a son who provides for the family, that she would have been on top of this from the get go
Or that was someone asking for another racer.

Stewart is 28. Two years ago, he'd have been 26, not 27.
Nerd
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6/26/2014 8:57pm
yosmithy wrote:
For those of you that have been diagnosed with ADD and prescribed Adderal. Do you ride better when you are taking it?
I've ridden on Adderall and Vyvanse. No, I don't ride better/faster on it. But I do ride safer, generally.

Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that 80% or more of the top guys are on ADHD meds legitimately because they have ADHD. Just like Stewart. That's the entire point behind a TUE: If you have a natural deficiency that is a disadvantage in sport, and that isn't your fault, you're allowed to take medications to correct that.

The rules are intended to prevent competitors from achieving an UNFAIR advantage. If you're a better racer than me, but you have ADHD and I don't, if you're unmedicated, I will win a good percentage of the time even though you're better.

If you're medicated, though, I likely won't beat you.

And that's how it SHOULD be because you're better than I am.

Simple.

Nowhere does it say no one can have an advantage. It says you can't have an UNFAIR advantage.
yosmithy
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6/26/2014 9:09pm
UNFAIR advantage?

If you can't beat me without meds, then maybe you shouldn't be racing in the same classification that I am?



APLMAN99
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6/26/2014 9:15pm
yosmithy wrote:
My two conditions are the only variables
APLMAN99 wrote:
I'm not sure I follow you. It seemed that you were wondering if taking meds to help correct a medical issue made it unfair to other...
I'm not sure I follow you.

It seemed that you were wondering if taking meds to help correct a medical issue made it unfair to other racers. In your scenario, Cox's meds made him able to race against you and win. In my scenario, your meds made you able to race against Cox and win. No real difference, other than emotional perception.
yosmithy wrote:
I didn't take any meds in my scenario: Very simple equation Cox in his natural UN-medicated state cannot beat me in and UN-medicated natural state in...
I didn't take any meds in my scenario:

Very simple equation

Cox in his natural UN-medicated state cannot beat me in and UN-medicated natural state in a race. If he takes medication, then he can beat me.
No other variables.....so, is that fair to me, just because he is diagnosed with a mental condition (sorry, meant disorder) Eidted. and I am not?


And in my scenario, Cox doesn't take any meds. In each scenario, one rider takes meds for a medical condition, the other doesn't.

If you huff on an inhaler for asthma, is it unfair?
Nerd
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6/26/2014 9:16pm
yosmithy wrote:
UNFAIR advantage?

If you can't beat me without meds, then maybe you shouldn't be racing in the same classification that I am?



If you had a non-ADHD class, there'd be like 14 people in it. And they'd just be undiagnosed.

Your bias is showing.

What's the difference between medication for an ACTUAL, TRUE case of ADHD and, let's say, an Allsport Dynamics wrist brace?

If you have a fucked up wrist, that's your problem. My wrists are healthy. So, you shouldn't be allowed to wear wrist braces.

Is that fair? Is it good for the sport? Is it good for ANYONE except the people you would beat if you were allowed to wear a wrist brace?
steve_97060
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6/26/2014 9:45pm
this thread graphically illustrates that some people can only see in black and whites..

or to put it in moto terms, they are a one line track..
Nerd
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6/26/2014 10:04pm
this thread graphically illustrates that some people can only see in black and whites.. or to put it in moto terms, they are a one line...
this thread graphically illustrates that some people can only see in black and whites..

or to put it in moto terms, they are a one line track..
This guy with the great first name from Troutdale, OR, is right.
6/26/2014 10:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2014 10:12pm
Nerd wrote:
I've ridden on Adderall and Vyvanse. No, I don't ride better/faster on it. But I do ride safer, generally. Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find...
I've ridden on Adderall and Vyvanse. No, I don't ride better/faster on it. But I do ride safer, generally.

Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that 80% or more of the top guys are on ADHD meds legitimately because they have ADHD. Just like Stewart. That's the entire point behind a TUE: If you have a natural deficiency that is a disadvantage in sport, and that isn't your fault, you're allowed to take medications to correct that.

The rules are intended to prevent competitors from achieving an UNFAIR advantage. If you're a better racer than me, but you have ADHD and I don't, if you're unmedicated, I will win a good percentage of the time even though you're better.

If you're medicated, though, I likely won't beat you.

And that's how it SHOULD be because you're better than I am.

Simple.

Nowhere does it say no one can have an advantage. It says you can't have an UNFAIR advantage.
If people with ADHD are somehow predisposed for extreme sports, aren't they (we) the ones with the advantage?

Also, what is fair? Should we make sure that everyone has the same T count? Should we make sure everyone has the same concentration of red blood cells?

I think you're kind of missing the point of the TUE. It's not about leveling the playing field. It's about allowing people with significant health problems to utilize medicine.
6/26/2014 10:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2014 10:26pm
Nerd wrote:
I've ridden on Adderall and Vyvanse. No, I don't ride better/faster on it. But I do ride safer, generally. Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find...
I've ridden on Adderall and Vyvanse. No, I don't ride better/faster on it. But I do ride safer, generally.

Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that 80% or more of the top guys are on ADHD meds legitimately because they have ADHD. Just like Stewart. That's the entire point behind a TUE: If you have a natural deficiency that is a disadvantage in sport, and that isn't your fault, you're allowed to take medications to correct that.

The rules are intended to prevent competitors from achieving an UNFAIR advantage. If you're a better racer than me, but you have ADHD and I don't, if you're unmedicated, I will win a good percentage of the time even though you're better.

If you're medicated, though, I likely won't beat you.

And that's how it SHOULD be because you're better than I am.

Simple.

Nowhere does it say no one can have an advantage. It says you can't have an UNFAIR advantage.
"First off, I know neither of you can say with certainty the percentage of people on ADHD meds in school. However, even if it was 30 or 50%, that still leaves up to 70% NOT ON ADHD MEDS." -Nerd

"Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that 80% or more of the top guys are on ADHD meds legitimately because they have ADHD."


First off, I know that you can't say with certainty the percentage of people on ADHD meds in motocross. However, even if it was 80%, that only leaves 20% not on meds. At that point, who has the advantage? If one characteristic is so predominant in "the top guys" how much of a step lander should they be allowed to have?


"[Adderall] masks fatigue, masks pain, increases arousal — like being in The Zone. . . It increases alertness, aggressiveness, attention and concentration. It improves reaction time, especially when fatigued. Some think it enhances hand-eye coordination. Some believe it increases the mental aspects of performance." -Dr. Gary Wadler, a past chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency's Prohibited List Committee.
Nerd
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6/26/2014 11:22pm
Nerd wrote:
I've ridden on Adderall and Vyvanse. No, I don't ride better/faster on it. But I do ride safer, generally. Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find...
I've ridden on Adderall and Vyvanse. No, I don't ride better/faster on it. But I do ride safer, generally.

Again, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that 80% or more of the top guys are on ADHD meds legitimately because they have ADHD. Just like Stewart. That's the entire point behind a TUE: If you have a natural deficiency that is a disadvantage in sport, and that isn't your fault, you're allowed to take medications to correct that.

The rules are intended to prevent competitors from achieving an UNFAIR advantage. If you're a better racer than me, but you have ADHD and I don't, if you're unmedicated, I will win a good percentage of the time even though you're better.

If you're medicated, though, I likely won't beat you.

And that's how it SHOULD be because you're better than I am.

Simple.

Nowhere does it say no one can have an advantage. It says you can't have an UNFAIR advantage.
TripleFive wrote:
If people with ADHD are somehow predisposed for extreme sports, aren't they (we) the ones with the advantage? Also, what is fair? Should we make sure...
If people with ADHD are somehow predisposed for extreme sports, aren't they (we) the ones with the advantage?

Also, what is fair? Should we make sure that everyone has the same T count? Should we make sure everyone has the same concentration of red blood cells?

I think you're kind of missing the point of the TUE. It's not about leveling the playing field. It's about allowing people with significant health problems to utilize medicine.
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success.

ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most to participate. That has nothing to do with how good you are at it.
Fraser
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6/27/2014 12:19am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2014 1:30am


http://www.help4adhd.org/about/statistics

You can probably spin the figures any way you want, but here's a start. According to this 12.1% of US boys suffer from ADHD, as opposed to a global percentage of 2.2%. That suggests that the US is 5.5 times more willing to diagnose ADHD and treat kids with amphetamines than the rest of the world. That should be a worry surely?

If you ignore European riders for a second it would also suggest that on any gate of 20 for a SX final, between 2 and 3 would be diagnosed ADHD. If its a lot higher than that as you suggest, then maybe the meds are helping them get to the final?
Fraser
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6/27/2014 1:32am
Nerd wrote:
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success. ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most...
WANTING to participate in a sport is no guarantee of success.

ADHD is very likely a key reason for the desire for many or even most to participate. That has nothing to do with how good you are at it.
No, no, no. How can you possibly make that connection?
yosmithy
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6/27/2014 5:50am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2014 6:13am
Nerd wrote:
If you had a non-ADHD class, there'd be like 14 people in it. And they'd just be undiagnosed. Your bias is showing. What's the difference between...
If you had a non-ADHD class, there'd be like 14 people in it. And they'd just be undiagnosed.

Your bias is showing.

What's the difference between medication for an ACTUAL, TRUE case of ADHD and, let's say, an Allsport Dynamics wrist brace?

If you have a fucked up wrist, that's your problem. My wrists are healthy. So, you shouldn't be allowed to wear wrist braces.

Is that fair? Is it good for the sport? Is it good for ANYONE except the people you would beat if you were allowed to wear a wrist brace?
Nevermind, you got too rabid about this. It was make believe and a simple scenario. Double your dosage sweetheart....

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