24-0 or 4 sx titles in a row?

Big Lenny
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Big Lenny 4/15/2014 2:34pm
4/15/2014 2:34pm
Park Boys wrote:
2002 RC was on a 250 nuff said, he was spotting his biggest competitor some serious HP and torque. 2004 had Chad Reed and Kevin Windham...
2002 RC was on a 250 nuff said, he was spotting his biggest competitor some serious HP and torque.
2004 had Chad Reed and Kevin Windham healthy all year how the FUCK is that not stacked?
Big Lenny wrote:
Yeah a 60 HP 250...Dry
Huevos wrote:
Not quite. RC has openly stated that the Honda CR250 was underpowered compared to even the KX250 he rode the years prior, let alone a 450...
Not quite. RC has openly stated that the Honda CR250 was underpowered compared to even the KX250 he rode the years prior, let alone a 450. There is no way the 250 he raced in 2002 was pumping out 60 ponies or even close to it.
I got a litature or a mag that said 60hp. I'll try to find it...
downard254
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downard254 4/15/2014 2:36pm
4/15/2014 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2014 2:38pm
You all realize, the two seasons RC went 24-0 and the season he missed it again by one race equates to 71-1. THAT is an impressive number in anyones book. Along with lapping the entire field.
JayCarpent
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JayCarpent 4/15/2014 2:37pm
4/15/2014 2:37pm
mxb2 wrote:
Whats more impressive ,going undefeated or 4 titles in a row? Both great on the resume,
I'm sure James would gladly trade in his 24-0 for four SX titles. Anyone would be a fool not to want more championships.
Big Lenny
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Big Lenny 4/15/2014 2:48pm
4/15/2014 2:48pm
Park Boys wrote:
2002 RC was on a 250 nuff said, he was spotting his biggest competitor some serious HP and torque. 2004 had Chad Reed and Kevin Windham...
2002 RC was on a 250 nuff said, he was spotting his biggest competitor some serious HP and torque.
2004 had Chad Reed and Kevin Windham healthy all year how the FUCK is that not stacked?
Big Lenny wrote:
Yeah a 60 HP 250...Dry
Park Boys wrote:
That Honda was a down on power compared to all other two strokes at the time, He said somewhere he loved his KX250 and jumped on...
That Honda was a down on power compared to all other two strokes at the time, He said somewhere he loved his KX250 and jumped on Browns YZ250 I believe and couldn't believe how fast it was with just a pipe.
Bullshit..I'll type this real quick I have to go to a parent/teacher conference..

"All that talent, determination and heart, however would be of naught if RC didn't have an equally superior motorcycle."

"RC declared that it was the bike..not the bucks that got him to ride red"...

I gotta go...I'm late..I'll find the HP quote when I get back..

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Big Lenny
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Big Lenny 4/15/2014 4:12pm
4/15/2014 4:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2014 4:19pm
Park Boys wrote:
2002 RC was on a 250 nuff said, he was spotting his biggest competitor some serious HP and torque. 2004 had Chad Reed and Kevin Windham...
2002 RC was on a 250 nuff said, he was spotting his biggest competitor some serious HP and torque.
2004 had Chad Reed and Kevin Windham healthy all year how the FUCK is that not stacked?
Big Lenny wrote:
Yeah a 60 HP 250...Dry
Huevos wrote:
Not quite. RC has openly stated that the Honda CR250 was underpowered compared to even the KX250 he rode the years prior, let alone a 450...
Not quite. RC has openly stated that the Honda CR250 was underpowered compared to even the KX250 he rode the years prior, let alone a 450. There is no way the 250 he raced in 2002 was pumping out 60 ponies or even close to it.
A stock '02 CR put our about 48, the KTM put out around 50 and even more in '03...Answer.com said 53.7 hp for the CR250...60 is what I read RC's put out...
Park Boys
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Park Boys 4/15/2014 4:21pm
4/15/2014 4:21pm
Big Lenny wrote:
A stock '02 CR put our about 48, the KTM put out around 50 and even more in '03...Answer.com said 53.7 hp for the CR250...60 is...
A stock '02 CR put our about 48, the KTM put out around 50 and even more in '03...Answer.com said 53.7 hp for the CR250...60 is what I read RC's put out...
53.7 my ass, no way a bone stock 02 CR250 put out almost 54HP. 48 is much more like it.
Big Lenny
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Big Lenny 4/15/2014 4:27pm
4/15/2014 4:27pm
Big Lenny wrote:
A stock '02 CR put our about 48, the KTM put out around 50 and even more in '03...Answer.com said 53.7 hp for the CR250...60 is...
A stock '02 CR put our about 48, the KTM put out around 50 and even more in '03...Answer.com said 53.7 hp for the CR250...60 is what I read RC's put out...
Park Boys wrote:
53.7 my ass, no way a bone stock 02 CR250 put out almost 54HP. 48 is much more like it.
I said 48 answer.com said 53.7..The only bike that put out more was the KTM in '02 at around 50 and even more in '03...you gonna tell me Honda/Watts couldn't get 60 out that motor?...
TbonesPop 4/15/2014 6:10pm
4/15/2014 6:10pm
Big Lenny wrote:
Go ahead pull some more stat's out yer ass..I'll wait...Whistling
jeffro503 wrote:
C'mon Len......seriously , when was Ferry , Short and Bryrne considered a race contender against James? Are you saying that looks like a strong field there?
Big Lenny wrote:
Same can be said about this past so called deepest field, it was all just James and RV IMO...
I don't want to get into an arguing match because I still do honestly believe both feats are very remarkable and neither should be diminished. However, as the OP asked which do I think was more impressive and why? Here's why. As noted in the other posts as to the top 4 guys behing JS from 2008, not a single one of them even got a podium in the following 2009 SX season except for Short. Excluding Short (who only got 2 podiums that year) niether Ferry, Byrner, Cooper, etc was even got a single SX podium let alone a win in the 2009 SX season. I like Ferry and he was pretty respectable outdoors, but he was nothing compared to having to beat RV, Reed, KR, Barcia, Dungey, etc. In 2009, the only real competition in SX was Reed. Between Reed and Stewart, they won 14 out of the 17 rounds that year - and had they not crashed out in the first round, they would have won that round too (no offense to Grant). The other 2 rounds were won by a rookie RV late in the year (one of which was LV and all JS had to do was finish ahead of Reed). In 2009 (I use 2009 because it was close to the same competition as the 2008 outdoors field), there were only 4 different riders to win a SX main - and really Grant was fortunate as previously noted. Reed and JS were the top 2 on the podium for ~90% of the races (30 out of 34 opportunities at top 2 podiums). So that was really between those two in terms of speed in that time of SX/MX. Reed didn't race the previous outdoors that year. So yes in my opinion, that was an extremely weak field back in 2008. I do still admit it's an amazing effort by James, but some of the luster is lost IMHO based on who he beat.

For the last 4 years of RV's championships, each year there were at least 5 different winners of SX main events, the wins were more spread out and if you look at the diversity of podium finishes, it was much more diverse. On any given night, I firmly believe that one of the following racers could podium or win a SX main: Reed, RV, RD, JS, KR, JB (Barcia), Canard, and Milsaps (last season). That's 8 different highly competitive riders to beat on a consistent basis. None of these riders were in the 2008 outdoors series IIRC.

So again, I don't want to take anything away from James' acomplishment - it's an amazing feat personally and probabaly even more impressive as a team (is it a coincidence that it was the exact same team to accomplish both RV's 4 SX Championships and James outdoor 24-0? - I don't think so.). But as the OP asked, which was "more" impressive, I have to choose 4 straight SX championships for the reasons above. Again, JMHO.
TbonesPop 4/15/2014 6:15pm
4/15/2014 6:15pm
downard254 wrote:
You all realize, the two seasons RC went 24-0 and the season he missed it again by one race equates to 71-1. THAT is an impressive...
You all realize, the two seasons RC went 24-0 and the season he missed it again by one race equates to 71-1. THAT is an impressive number in anyones book. Along with lapping the entire field.
Damn, that is absolutely insane when you think about it - weak field or not. Incredible
mxb2
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mxb2 4/15/2014 7:03pm
4/15/2014 7:03pm
jeffro503 wrote:
C'mon Len......seriously , when was Ferry , Short and Bryrne considered a race contender against James? Are you saying that looks like a strong field there?
Big Lenny wrote:
Same can be said about this past so called deepest field, it was all just James and RV IMO...
TbonesPop wrote:
I don't want to get into an arguing match because I still do honestly believe both feats are very remarkable and neither should be diminished. However...
I don't want to get into an arguing match because I still do honestly believe both feats are very remarkable and neither should be diminished. However, as the OP asked which do I think was more impressive and why? Here's why. As noted in the other posts as to the top 4 guys behing JS from 2008, not a single one of them even got a podium in the following 2009 SX season except for Short. Excluding Short (who only got 2 podiums that year) niether Ferry, Byrner, Cooper, etc was even got a single SX podium let alone a win in the 2009 SX season. I like Ferry and he was pretty respectable outdoors, but he was nothing compared to having to beat RV, Reed, KR, Barcia, Dungey, etc. In 2009, the only real competition in SX was Reed. Between Reed and Stewart, they won 14 out of the 17 rounds that year - and had they not crashed out in the first round, they would have won that round too (no offense to Grant). The other 2 rounds were won by a rookie RV late in the year (one of which was LV and all JS had to do was finish ahead of Reed). In 2009 (I use 2009 because it was close to the same competition as the 2008 outdoors field), there were only 4 different riders to win a SX main - and really Grant was fortunate as previously noted. Reed and JS were the top 2 on the podium for ~90% of the races (30 out of 34 opportunities at top 2 podiums). So that was really between those two in terms of speed in that time of SX/MX. Reed didn't race the previous outdoors that year. So yes in my opinion, that was an extremely weak field back in 2008. I do still admit it's an amazing effort by James, but some of the luster is lost IMHO based on who he beat.

For the last 4 years of RV's championships, each year there were at least 5 different winners of SX main events, the wins were more spread out and if you look at the diversity of podium finishes, it was much more diverse. On any given night, I firmly believe that one of the following racers could podium or win a SX main: Reed, RV, RD, JS, KR, JB (Barcia), Canard, and Milsaps (last season). That's 8 different highly competitive riders to beat on a consistent basis. None of these riders were in the 2008 outdoors series IIRC.

So again, I don't want to take anything away from James' acomplishment - it's an amazing feat personally and probabaly even more impressive as a team (is it a coincidence that it was the exact same team to accomplish both RV's 4 SX Championships and James outdoor 24-0? - I don't think so.). But as the OP asked, which was "more" impressive, I have to choose 4 straight SX championships for the reasons above. Again, JMHO.
Well said, both are impressive, and throw in rc s lapping the field and magoos ride for the usa., its a great sport.
dantheman
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dantheman 4/15/2014 7:57pm
4/15/2014 7:57pm
Imagine if you will...

We have a time machine, and we're going back to the beginning of both riders(JS and RV) 450 career. We talk to them... tell them each what they are going to accomplish: "James, you're going to go undefeated outdoors once and Ryan, you're going to win 4 SX titles in a row." "But here's the catch, we need each of you to do what the other does!"

"Ryan, we want a perfect outdoors. No more slow starts, bike isn't right 'til new model, can't race old knee injury yada yada yada. You have to come out and get 'r' done done EVERY moto 24 times in a row!"

And... "James, we want you to keep it together for four years in a row! Yes you can still win races, as "winning races" is more important to you and your fans but... you can't crash out... AT ALL! You have to stay healthy enough for the whole season each and every year for four years in a row!."

They're both amazingly tough feats to accomplish... and each impressive in their own right.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 4/15/2014 8:00pm
4/15/2014 8:00pm
God damn....is it really so hard to just say / think.....that both feats were extremely impressive? The ones James has done , the ones RC has done and the ones RV is still doing now.

Bunch of squabble over misc bullshit that doesn't matter.
dantheman
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dantheman 4/15/2014 8:06pm
4/15/2014 8:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2014 8:07pm
I didn't even touch on RC's accomplishments Jeffro, as that dude straight up must've made a pact with the Devil or some shit Tongue No way a guy can stay healthy like he did yard sailing, winning big and hauling the mail Wink In BOTH disciplines.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 4/15/2014 8:08pm
4/15/2014 8:08pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2014 8:08pm
dantheman wrote:
I didn't even touch on RC's accomplishments Jeffro, as that dude straight up must've made a pact with the Devil or some shit :P No way...
I didn't even touch on RC's accomplishments Jeffro, as that dude straight up must've made a pact with the Devil or some shit Tongue No way a guy can stay healthy like he did yard sailing, winning big and hauling the mail Wink In BOTH disciplines.
I hear ya Dan. It was more of a general reply to the thread in a whole.....and guys going back and forth. Crazy.
Big Lenny
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Big Lenny 4/15/2014 9:11pm
4/15/2014 9:11pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2014 9:15pm
jeffro503 wrote:
C'mon Len......seriously , when was Ferry , Short and Bryrne considered a race contender against James? Are you saying that looks like a strong field there?
Big Lenny wrote:
Same can be said about this past so called deepest field, it was all just James and RV IMO...
TbonesPop wrote:
I don't want to get into an arguing match because I still do honestly believe both feats are very remarkable and neither should be diminished. However...
I don't want to get into an arguing match because I still do honestly believe both feats are very remarkable and neither should be diminished. However, as the OP asked which do I think was more impressive and why? Here's why. As noted in the other posts as to the top 4 guys behing JS from 2008, not a single one of them even got a podium in the following 2009 SX season except for Short. Excluding Short (who only got 2 podiums that year) niether Ferry, Byrner, Cooper, etc was even got a single SX podium let alone a win in the 2009 SX season. I like Ferry and he was pretty respectable outdoors, but he was nothing compared to having to beat RV, Reed, KR, Barcia, Dungey, etc. In 2009, the only real competition in SX was Reed. Between Reed and Stewart, they won 14 out of the 17 rounds that year - and had they not crashed out in the first round, they would have won that round too (no offense to Grant). The other 2 rounds were won by a rookie RV late in the year (one of which was LV and all JS had to do was finish ahead of Reed). In 2009 (I use 2009 because it was close to the same competition as the 2008 outdoors field), there were only 4 different riders to win a SX main - and really Grant was fortunate as previously noted. Reed and JS were the top 2 on the podium for ~90% of the races (30 out of 34 opportunities at top 2 podiums). So that was really between those two in terms of speed in that time of SX/MX. Reed didn't race the previous outdoors that year. So yes in my opinion, that was an extremely weak field back in 2008. I do still admit it's an amazing effort by James, but some of the luster is lost IMHO based on who he beat.

For the last 4 years of RV's championships, each year there were at least 5 different winners of SX main events, the wins were more spread out and if you look at the diversity of podium finishes, it was much more diverse. On any given night, I firmly believe that one of the following racers could podium or win a SX main: Reed, RV, RD, JS, KR, JB (Barcia), Canard, and Milsaps (last season). That's 8 different highly competitive riders to beat on a consistent basis. None of these riders were in the 2008 outdoors series IIRC.

So again, I don't want to take anything away from James' acomplishment - it's an amazing feat personally and probabaly even more impressive as a team (is it a coincidence that it was the exact same team to accomplish both RV's 4 SX Championships and James outdoor 24-0? - I don't think so.). But as the OP asked, which was "more" impressive, I have to choose 4 straight SX championships for the reasons above. Again, JMHO.
Why all that nonsense when I knew what you were gonna say as soon as you posted...That shit about put me to sleep...

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