Missing Flight MH370

enketchum
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3/13/2014 10:57pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2014 1:50am
The rumble on the strip may have been the reflection of the sound off the pavement. Personally, I think the F4 is ugly. The F16 is my favorite jet. I like the A10 for it's badassery.

I wasn't thinking about the wreckage. If it did break up in air, there should be 300+ seat cushions floating around...

Someone said the 777 was made to land on water, once. This plane is very poor at water landings due to the giant engines under it. It's gonna pitch down hard when it smacks the water

Yes, turbo props are very loud and when they decrease the pitch at altitude they get very quiet compared to take off. Also, they like to shake a lot. I never vomit on planes but the shaking in a Dash8-300 on take off one time got me quite close. The combo of the vibration and the turbulent Virginia air made it really bad. They are also loud if they choose to use reverse pitch and the throttle adjusts to slow the plane down on their descent. That's a weird thing to hear when you are descending and you can see the ground, engines are increasing, but plane is forcefully slowing down. It makes a weird whirring sound, too.

Funny story, I was on an A321 near the back. There was a mom and daughter and I was told the daughter is a Disney Star from one of the tv shows (She was caked in makeup, sad). While cruising, i was waiting for the rear lav to open and she was asleep with her head back and her mouth wide open. I wanted to take a funny picture but decided against it. And it was night time so the cabin was quite dark.
3/14/2014 6:22am
I regret insisting that the plane flew into space.


There are some crazy developments in this story:

Malaysia plane may have had transponder shut down deliberately

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/21970784/malaysia-rejects-jet-debris-i…

US officials said that because two separate communication systems were shut down separately, the plane did not suffer a catastrophic accident.

According to data obtained, the reporting system was shut down at 1.07am (Malaysia time) and the transponder at 1.21am.

This suggested that the shut down in communications was deliberate, ABC News aviation consultant John Nance said.

Another US official said that they may have an "indication" of where the missing flight may be located, and have switched focus to the Indian Ocean.

According to a report from ABC News, American military forces were moving the USS Kidd to the area to begin the search.

"We have an indication the plane went down in the Indian Ocean," the senior official was quoted as saying.
ken754
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3/14/2014 8:38am
enketchum wrote:
We could lift a plane the size of a 777 with a balloon, but balloons are slow and only made, nowadays, for vertical travel. Planes are...
We could lift a plane the size of a 777 with a balloon, but balloons are slow and only made, nowadays, for vertical travel. Planes are made for long travel around the earth. Gaining altitude is only for safety and efficiency.
FastEddy wrote:
Thanks. Yeah,as vert as I have ever been in a plane was flying out of John Wayne after Anaheim one year. They get pretty vert going...
Thanks.

Yeah,as vert as I have ever been in a plane was flying out of John Wayne after Anaheim one year.
They get pretty vert going out of there I guess due to a short runway.
Had never experienced that before,until I flew out of there.
It also sounded like once they get to a certain elevation ,they killed one of the engines.
It got real quiet.
John Wayne airport has sound restrictions that airlines have to follow. They will climb like hell and then pull back power to stay under the sound limits. Had the pleasure of leaving there in a B757 with only flight crew and a few mechanics once. Sure as hell felt like the pilot pulled her straight up.

The Shop

The Rock
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3/14/2014 1:05pm
enketchum wrote:
The Concorde was cruise tested at FL600 (60,000 feet) but they could not fly commercially at that altitude due to Emergency O2 not lasting long enough...
The Concorde was cruise tested at FL600 (60,000 feet) but they could not fly commercially at that altitude due to Emergency O2 not lasting long enough to support cabin life for descent to FL100 (10,000 feet) where the passengers could breathe at vented atmosphere in the cabin. It is possible. But the Concorde was not a normal plane either. The entire underside of the aircraft was all wing surface.
December of 84 I flew Heathrow to JFK on a British Airways Concorde. 58K feet and 3.5 hours flying time cruising between Mach 1.9 and 2.1. Smoothest flight I have ever been on and the only indication you really had of the speed was the clouds were going by noticeably quicker. Short travel time was great but for me the best pat was seeing the curvature of the earth from my window seat. Smaller windows than commercial airliners with seating for 100 plus crew.

This missing flight deal is a real conundrum.
The Rock
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3/14/2014 1:08pm
ken754 wrote:
John Wayne airport has sound restrictions that airlines have to follow. They will climb like hell and then pull back power to stay under the sound...
John Wayne airport has sound restrictions that airlines have to follow. They will climb like hell and then pull back power to stay under the sound limits. Had the pleasure of leaving there in a B757 with only flight crew and a few mechanics once. Sure as hell felt like the pilot pulled her straight up.
Definitely an E ticket experience since the plane is climbing at the steepest angle you've ever experienced......unless you've flown out of John Wayne before.
Racer92
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3/14/2014 1:12pm
[i]A lighter than air gas is going to go up until there basically is no more air (or the balloon bursts from expansion). It's like farting...
A lighter than air gas is going to go up until there basically is no more air (or the balloon bursts from expansion). It's like farting in a bathtub.
Best analogy ever.
VM is a fonzanoon, what did you expect ! Laughing
enketchum
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3/14/2014 2:09pm
enketchum wrote:
The Concorde was cruise tested at FL600 (60,000 feet) but they could not fly commercially at that altitude due to Emergency O2 not lasting long enough...
The Concorde was cruise tested at FL600 (60,000 feet) but they could not fly commercially at that altitude due to Emergency O2 not lasting long enough to support cabin life for descent to FL100 (10,000 feet) where the passengers could breathe at vented atmosphere in the cabin. It is possible. But the Concorde was not a normal plane either. The entire underside of the aircraft was all wing surface.
The Rock wrote:
December of 84 I flew Heathrow to JFK on a British Airways Concorde. 58K feet and 3.5 hours flying time cruising between Mach 1.9 and 2.1...
December of 84 I flew Heathrow to JFK on a British Airways Concorde. 58K feet and 3.5 hours flying time cruising between Mach 1.9 and 2.1. Smoothest flight I have ever been on and the only indication you really had of the speed was the clouds were going by noticeably quicker. Short travel time was great but for me the best pat was seeing the curvature of the earth from my window seat. Smaller windows than commercial airliners with seating for 100 plus crew.

This missing flight deal is a real conundrum.
Wow I did not know they flew that high regularly. They could probably do it because it was over the ocean and a quick decent is always possible. There are no possible mountainous regions to hit.
enketchum
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3/14/2014 2:12pm
In other air flight news today, US AIRWAYS
AWE1702

Racer92
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3/14/2014 2:24pm
US Airways running air forks?
FastEddy
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3/14/2014 7:02pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2014 7:33pm
enketchum wrote:
In other air flight news today, US AIRWAYS AWE1702 [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/03/14/48370/s1200_BipHkL_CcAApVR4.jpg[/img]
In other air flight news today, US AIRWAYS
AWE1702

That sucks.

I just bought a FC ticket with US Airways last month to head back up to the Northwest this summer.
Hopefully that shit don't happen again. Smile
3/14/2014 7:12pm
enketchum wrote:
The rumble on the strip may have been the reflection of the sound off the pavement. Personally, I think the F4 is ugly. The F16 is...
The rumble on the strip may have been the reflection of the sound off the pavement. Personally, I think the F4 is ugly. The F16 is my favorite jet. I like the A10 for it's badassery.

I wasn't thinking about the wreckage. If it did break up in air, there should be 300+ seat cushions floating around...

Someone said the 777 was made to land on water, once. This plane is very poor at water landings due to the giant engines under it. It's gonna pitch down hard when it smacks the water

Yes, turbo props are very loud and when they decrease the pitch at altitude they get very quiet compared to take off. Also, they like to shake a lot. I never vomit on planes but the shaking in a Dash8-300 on take off one time got me quite close. The combo of the vibration and the turbulent Virginia air made it really bad. They are also loud if they choose to use reverse pitch and the throttle adjusts to slow the plane down on their descent. That's a weird thing to hear when you are descending and you can see the ground, engines are increasing, but plane is forcefully slowing down. It makes a weird whirring sound, too.

Funny story, I was on an A321 near the back. There was a mom and daughter and I was told the daughter is a Disney Star from one of the tv shows (She was caked in makeup, sad). While cruising, i was waiting for the rear lav to open and she was asleep with her head back and her mouth wide open. I wanted to take a funny picture but decided against it. And it was night time so the cabin was quite dark.
Dash 8 has made a ton of airlines a ton of money. Probably one of the most profitable planes to operate in its niche. But, those 4 blade straight blade props are vibrating noisy son of a guns. The newer Canadian replacement for the dash 8, the Bombardier Q-400 is wayyyy nicer. 5 blade curved prop, super smooth, 100 knot faster cruise... and a bit bigger. other than its made in quebec, by a crappy government supported company, it's a great little plane. Wink
enketchum
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3/14/2014 10:31pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2014 10:32pm
Dash 8 has made a ton of airlines a ton of money. Probably one of the most profitable planes to operate in its niche. But, those...
Dash 8 has made a ton of airlines a ton of money. Probably one of the most profitable planes to operate in its niche. But, those 4 blade straight blade props are vibrating noisy son of a guns. The newer Canadian replacement for the dash 8, the Bombardier Q-400 is wayyyy nicer. 5 blade curved prop, super smooth, 100 knot faster cruise... and a bit bigger. other than its made in quebec, by a crappy government supported company, it's a great little plane. Wink
Bombardier took over production of the 200, 300, and 400. They only stretched the 400 and used larger powerplants in the q400. I have seen one but have never flown in one. They look far too long for those little jet props under each wing. They also have quite short wings for their size. Based on where the gear comes down from, I would guess half of that engine pod is taken up by the gear. The engine and gear box is only 84 inches long

On both trips take offs, the bottom of the propeller circle was making a blue smoke. I told the FO after the second trip about it on the gate and he didn't say it was normal, but he did say that nothing was alerted on the instrument panel. I took that as we know it blows oil out of the propellers. After thinking about it for some time, I remembered seeing a maintainence worker drive a truck up to the plane before the first flight and poured a few cans of oil into one of the engine pods. Maybe that's what was burning off? It was a very blue smoke.

It's a big puppy
Barrett57
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3/14/2014 10:55pm
Who knows if its true, but it throws more fuel on the fire.

http://www.businessinsider.com/missing-flight-hijacked-2014-3

A Malaysian official said investigators concluded the missing Malaysia Airlines flight was hijacked and steered off its original course, the AP reported late Friday evening.
From AP:

The official, who is involved in the investigation, says no motive has been established, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. “It is conclusive.”
Old-Man
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3/14/2014 11:10pm
The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. “It is conclusive.”

Really? then this resource is the only one to know this.
rebus
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3/15/2014 12:41am
They are now saying that the plane climbed to 45,000 feet and descended very quickly to 23,000 feet.

NYT
3/15/2014 2:38am
rebus wrote:
They are now saying that the plane climbed to 45,000 feet and descended very quickly to 23,000 feet.

NYT
OK, tin foil hat time....I got some questions that may or may not have been answered....

That is a crazy altitude for that plane. Would the cabin been able to keep pressure? What was the purpose of taking it to that altitude? Getting everyone to pass out?


Why did the plane go off radar? Just because the transponders and other communications equipment went dead, doesnt mean that the plane still wouldnt show up all over radar. That plane would have been just as easy to track as ever. Something doesnt add up here.

And what of the information that is leaking out that there were a ton of pasengers on that flight that were engineers for worked for Freescale Semiconductor in Malaysia? This company is state of the art and has many divisions, including military. They do nearly all of Intel and AMDs work. So here we have two countries, Malaysia and China, with a top flight electronics engineering firm, Freescale semiconductor, and 20 missing engineers on a vanished plane. Something to chew on for sure here.

Two people got on that flight with stolen passports....or did they? Any final confirmation on that. I only know what the initial reports were.

I read that supposedly on lightradar24, it showed an adjacent aircraft heading (AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED!) north east, prior to the disappearance. Anyone else heard this?

And then there is always the chance that this is a false flag event. Anything to distract us from whatever fucked up shit Obama has us doing over in Crimea. A far fetched theory I know. Im just throwing things out there. In time, the dust will settle, and we will know what was a reach and what is more likely.

But the first question we should ask is, how did this plane vanish from radar so easily? Or did it?
3/15/2014 3:00am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2014 3:01am
Barrett57 wrote:
Who knows if its true, but it throws more fuel on the fire. http://www.businessinsider.com/missing-flight-hijacked-2014-3 A Malaysian official said investigators concluded the missing Malaysia Airlines flight was...
Who knows if its true, but it throws more fuel on the fire.

http://www.businessinsider.com/missing-flight-hijacked-2014-3

A Malaysian official said investigators concluded the missing Malaysia Airlines flight was hijacked and steered off its original course, the AP reported late Friday evening.
From AP:

The official, who is involved in the investigation, says no motive has been established, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. “It is conclusive.”
I think I have a plausible motive....

Freescale Semiconductors. Supposedly 26 of their engineers were on that flight. This could be more of a kidnapping than a hijacking. Technology theft.
enketchum
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3/15/2014 3:04am
Vanishing from radar is as easy as turning away from radar coverage. Vast amounts of the Indian ocean are not covered by radar. Radar is limited by the inverse square law in both directions. The most powerful surface radar cannot travel across small oceans.
enketchum
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3/15/2014 3:06am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2014 3:07am
Barrett57 wrote:
Who knows if its true, but it throws more fuel on the fire. http://www.businessinsider.com/missing-flight-hijacked-2014-3 A Malaysian official said investigators concluded the missing Malaysia Airlines flight was...
Who knows if its true, but it throws more fuel on the fire.

http://www.businessinsider.com/missing-flight-hijacked-2014-3

A Malaysian official said investigators concluded the missing Malaysia Airlines flight was hijacked and steered off its original course, the AP reported late Friday evening.
From AP:

The official, who is involved in the investigation, says no motive has been established, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. “It is conclusive.”
I think I have a plausible motive.... Freescale Semiconductors. Supposedly 26 of their engineers were on that flight. This could be more of a kidnapping than...
I think I have a plausible motive....

Freescale Semiconductors. Supposedly 26 of their engineers were on that flight. This could be more of a kidnapping than a hijacking. Technology theft.
If they were kidnapped, where would they be taken? Countries that have the means to obtain the materials and parts these guys would need to build things would easily be found out.

Large numbers of group members of a company, brand, group, etc have been taken out by plane crashes.
3/15/2014 3:27am
enketchum wrote:
Vanishing from radar is as easy as turning away from radar coverage. Vast amounts of the Indian ocean are not covered by radar. Radar is limited...
Vanishing from radar is as easy as turning away from radar coverage. Vast amounts of the Indian ocean are not covered by radar. Radar is limited by the inverse square law in both directions. The most powerful surface radar cannot travel across small oceans.
They were over Vietnemese land when they lost the radar signal.

But Ive since had my radar inquiries answered on another forum.

They were outside civilian radar and all they had was the transponder to coordinate their position. And we wont know the military radar details because it's not like the Malaysian govt wants all their neighbors to know their exact radar capabilities.

So now my focus is on motive. And Im trying to flush out the Semiconductor link.
3/15/2014 3:28am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2014 3:37am
enketchum wrote:
If they were kidnapped, where would they be taken? Countries that have the means to obtain the materials and parts these guys would need to build...
If they were kidnapped, where would they be taken? Countries that have the means to obtain the materials and parts these guys would need to build things would easily be found out.

Large numbers of group members of a company, brand, group, etc have been taken out by plane crashes.
Would they really be found out?

It could be any number of countries in need of their tech. Including our own.

Anything is a possibility right now. Im just in the "asking questions" phase of things.
3/15/2014 3:49am
I cant wait to get FastEddy's take on this.
3/15/2014 3:56am
My bet is that this is just a viral marketing scheme for a new season of Lost.
3/15/2014 4:07am
Maybe the Malaysian govt shot it down?

Sent everyone on a wild goose chase while they cleaned up the wreckage?
FastEddy
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3/15/2014 5:59am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2014 5:59am
I cant wait to get FastEddy's take on this.
My guess is it was hijacked and taken to high a elevation,came down and crashed into the ocean far from where they had been looking. Smile
3/15/2014 7:50am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2014 8:11am
Very much beginning to look like it was indeed hijacked and then either landed elsewhere or crashed elsewhere. I guess it's possible some sort of ransom may emerge in the following weeks. If I were a family member, I think right now I would rather take that slither of hope before the certainty that they did crash and everyone is dead. But then again not knowing can also be worse.
3/15/2014 8:22am
UPDATE 7:59 AM UTC: Citing a senior "Malaysian police official, Reuters claims that police are searching the home of the pilot."
FastEddy
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3/15/2014 8:59am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2014 9:04am
Very much beginning to look like it was indeed hijacked and then either landed elsewhere or crashed elsewhere. I guess it's possible some sort of ransom...
Very much beginning to look like it was indeed hijacked and then either landed elsewhere or crashed elsewhere. I guess it's possible some sort of ransom may emerge in the following weeks. If I were a family member, I think right now I would rather take that slither of hope before the certainty that they did crash and everyone is dead. But then again not knowing can also be worse.
If that Plane was hijacked and landed safely on land it's gotta be in Iran IMO.
They have plenty of remote airports/places to land it.
They would also have no reason to take credit for it and they'd keep it secret.

Motive:
I could totally see MISIRI getting the terror wing of Hezbollah to get someone to carry out an operation like this.
I wouldn't put it past them is what I'm saying.
If MISIRI wanted someone bad enough they'd kill/kidnap all those people just to get to their target.
Whether that target could be an asset they could torture to work for them,or pry info out of,or even a target that did them wrong.
I wonder if there were any scientists on board plane and their not saying anything?

The only thing is...
To get to Iran taking the sea route,they would have had to of went through Indian airspace without being detected I believe.
I guess flown very low.
They could have landed that plane in Bam or even closer to the water in Chabahar/Konarak.
Cover it up with netting to hide it or even blow it up into pieces and sink it in Chabahar Bay.


Maybe India shot it down?
Who knows...
3/15/2014 11:18am
Very much beginning to look like it was indeed hijacked and then either landed elsewhere or crashed elsewhere. I guess it's possible some sort of ransom...
Very much beginning to look like it was indeed hijacked and then either landed elsewhere or crashed elsewhere. I guess it's possible some sort of ransom may emerge in the following weeks. If I were a family member, I think right now I would rather take that slither of hope before the certainty that they did crash and everyone is dead. But then again not knowing can also be worse.
FastEddy wrote:
If that Plane was hijacked and landed safely on land it's gotta be in Iran IMO. They have plenty of remote airports/places to land it. They...
If that Plane was hijacked and landed safely on land it's gotta be in Iran IMO.
They have plenty of remote airports/places to land it.
They would also have no reason to take credit for it and they'd keep it secret.

Motive:
I could totally see MISIRI getting the terror wing of Hezbollah to get someone to carry out an operation like this.
I wouldn't put it past them is what I'm saying.
If MISIRI wanted someone bad enough they'd kill/kidnap all those people just to get to their target.
Whether that target could be an asset they could torture to work for them,or pry info out of,or even a target that did them wrong.
I wonder if there were any scientists on board plane and their not saying anything?

The only thing is...
To get to Iran taking the sea route,they would have had to of went through Indian airspace without being detected I believe.
I guess flown very low.
They could have landed that plane in Bam or even closer to the water in Chabahar/Konarak.
Cover it up with netting to hide it or even blow it up into pieces and sink it in Chabahar Bay.


Maybe India shot it down?
Who knows...
Here is a webpage that has a ton of info....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/mh370-search-for-missing-m…

One thing it notes, is that for it to have gone North, and head to Iran, it would have had to fly thru some seriously heavily militarized air space. Even at low altitude, the chances of it making thru without detection is pretty freaking slim. Super dense air defense systems.

They say it could have turned back around and headed south. Which seems odd because that would mean it went back into civilian Malaysian radar range.

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