Reed & Stewarts Take

BornA'Lil2Slow 2/14/2014 6:19am
2/14/2014 6:19am
The disparity in talent over the years has gotten a lot closer. I think one of the things that's overlooked is that now riders have access to ride real SX tracks during the week. Tracks being easier is a small part, to me its more because more guys can make a track look easier to ride because of talent and time during the week on a SX track.

Equipment has narrowed greatly. Back in the day, the top 5 or 6 guys bike was night and day better then the other 14~15 guys. And those 14~15 guys were in a box van driving all week to the next race. Now, the fly in, race, fly home, ride on SX track all week, fly to next SX track.

Add to that the number of teams now so more riders have support both equipment, logistics, and training during the week... makes things closer.
Outsider
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Outsider 2/14/2014 6:23am
2/14/2014 6:23am
rcm406 wrote:
Then why did RV used to get waxed by Alessi when they were on 2 strokes? I think if there is one rider who has benefited...
Then why did RV used to get waxed by Alessi when they were on 2 strokes? I think if there is one rider who has benefited the most by going 4 stroke, it's RV. I don't know what it was, but something just clicked for RV once he got on a 4 stroke.
Alessi ran cheater Hondas...

https://youtu.be/7l4HOdkmvrI
sargeant
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sargeant 2/14/2014 7:46am
2/14/2014 7:46am
rv has the xact same style today. amazing. is # 17 somebody?
P
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P 2/14/2014 8:17am
2/14/2014 8:17am
CR250Rider wrote:
Bubba on a 125 was like nothing we see today.
lostboy819 wrote:
Bubba use to crash on a 125 like nothing we see today, remember Las Vegas, we felt the ground shake 40 rows up
He also rode a 125 faster and better that anyone that you have ever seen before.


P

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FastEddy 2/14/2014 8:20am
2/14/2014 8:20am
CR250Rider wrote:
Bubba on a 125 was like nothing we see today.
lostboy819 wrote:
Bubba use to crash on a 125 like nothing we see today, remember Las Vegas, we felt the ground shake 40 rows up
P wrote:
He also rode a 125 faster and better that anyone that you have ever seen before.


P
His style & speed on a 125 was incredibly amazing!
It was always a treat to watch him ride one.
He pushed the limits and if there is anyone who ever rode a 125 to it's full potential,it was James. Smile
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P 2/14/2014 8:23am
2/14/2014 8:23am
When it comes to technique and skill on a motorcycle I think that James Stewart is the best that we have ever seen, that is why he was so good on a 2-stroke. That's just MHO.


P
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Juss 2/14/2014 8:24am
2/14/2014 8:24am
Uncleof2 wrote:
I don't think James Stewart would have won any more on the 2 strokes than he would have on the 4-strokes because we would have still...
I don't think James Stewart would have won any more on the 2 strokes than he would have on the 4-strokes
because we would have still had to beat RC, CR, and RV during all those years and I don't think he would have.
He would probably have about 48 wins and only 2 championships. RC and CR were awesome on 2 strokes and'
I watched RV ride a two stroke like it wasn't going to last a moto. Champions are champions and they all have to
deal with the changing times, tracks, and bikes. MC won 72 races on a smoker and nobody would have beat that
record. In my opinion.
Juss wrote:
Ive seen some vids of RV on a 2 stroke 80 and he was flying. Im sure he would of been just as fast on a...
Ive seen some vids of RV on a 2 stroke 80 and he was flying. Im sure he would of been just as fast on a 250 2 stroke. I don't agree with you on JS. IMO had he not had to switch to the 4 pig he would of had a lot more wins & at least another title. RV would for sure, be just a tough on a 2 stroke, but I don't feel the same about a lot of the younger guys.
rcm406 wrote:
Then why did RV used to get waxed by Alessi when they were on 2 strokes? I think if there is one rider who has benefited...
Then why did RV used to get waxed by Alessi when they were on 2 strokes? I think if there is one rider who has benefited the most by going 4 stroke, it's RV. I don't know what it was, but something just clicked for RV once he got on a 4 stroke.
You have a valid point. I do think JS7 would of won a lot more on the 2 stroke. RV does seem to just suit a 450
shredder22 2/14/2014 9:04am
2/14/2014 9:04am
Juss wrote:
Ive seen some vids of RV on a 2 stroke 80 and he was flying. Im sure he would of been just as fast on a...
Ive seen some vids of RV on a 2 stroke 80 and he was flying. Im sure he would of been just as fast on a 250 2 stroke. I don't agree with you on JS. IMO had he not had to switch to the 4 pig he would of had a lot more wins & at least another title. RV would for sure, be just a tough on a 2 stroke, but I don't feel the same about a lot of the younger guys.
rcm406 wrote:
Then why did RV used to get waxed by Alessi when they were on 2 strokes? I think if there is one rider who has benefited...
Then why did RV used to get waxed by Alessi when they were on 2 strokes? I think if there is one rider who has benefited the most by going 4 stroke, it's RV. I don't know what it was, but something just clicked for RV once he got on a 4 stroke.
Juss wrote:
You have a valid point. I do think JS7 would of won a lot more on the 2 stroke. RV does seem to just suit a...
You have a valid point. I do think JS7 would of won a lot more on the 2 stroke. RV does seem to just suit a 450
There's no proof that RV wouldn't have won the same amount of titles on a 2 stroke as he has won on a 4 stroke. Watch that vid of RV on that 80. He was screaming. Alessi beating him when they were kids can be chalked up to a lot of different things. RV isn't the only guy to lose to do a lot better as a pro than an amateur.

And yes I know James was the fastest ever on a 125…That doesn't automatically give him all these premier class championships. I think it's hilarious for some of you guys to think that RC wouldn't have held a candle to James if they both were on 250's. Like James would have came in and just took RC's lunch money like he was a little kid and left him in the dust?

Could James have beat RC and RV if everybody was on 2 strokes? Maybe. But it's far from a sure thing.
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cody331 2/14/2014 9:14am
2/14/2014 9:14am
sargeant wrote:
rv has the xact same style today. amazing. is # 17 somebody?
I think it's Reynard?
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RudyRayMo 2/14/2014 9:35am
2/14/2014 9:35am
Me and my racing buddy had the same talk about if (mx had stayed 2 strokes) he said it was the way you have to ride a four stroke it lowered the talent and technique needed to go fast. MC said it himself in a old racer x mag he couldn't figure out how RC and CR were going so fast in the 05 sx season.Then bubba healed up and showed up at orlando and beat rc in the heat and was pulling away in the main until he threw it away in the whoops.
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malachi177 2/14/2014 9:44am
2/14/2014 9:44am
Omg people....RC was no slouch on a two stroke. If both were racing 250 smokers in that race where JS landed on RC it wouldn't have been close. The RM250 was developed and dialed and one of the best 250's of all time. The RMZ450 was only a year old and still in development. I watched them race each other on multiple occasions live. RC was a viper on the 250, and his corner speed was jaw dropping. To say JS would've mopped the floor if things would have stayed two stroke is humorous.
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Katoomey 2/14/2014 9:56am
2/14/2014 9:56am
the amount of alternate history fantasy going on in this thread is obnoxious.

STOP BUYING FOURSTROKES!!!! thats the only thing that will change anything in that department.

as for pro racing, I don't want the gap to increase between the good and the bad. I'm a spectator. why would I want better riders to dominate? just so I can say "my" guy is the best? give me a fuckin break. you guys act like your such big fans of the sport, but your not, your just a bunch hero worshiping nut huggers.

It bugs the hell out of me how many grown men on this site worship other grown men. is there anything more pathetic than vicariously stroking your own ego?

and who gives a shit if the lap times are only 45 seconds. I'd rather watch 15 minutes of good racing than 20 minutes of one or two guys always up front.
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FlaNard 2/14/2014 10:10am
2/14/2014 10:10am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2014 10:15am
I say the tracks are far easier and the thumpers have taken a lot of the skill out of the sport and Guy B tells me I wear a tinfoil hat. Yet Bubba, Reed, DV12, McGrath and others have expressed the same thing. I like my side on this one. Since people seem to be all for continuing to dumb down and simplify the sport for the sake of parity in racing we might as well force the fastest qualifiers to get last gate picks and politely ask them to slow down if they get too big of a lead. Perhaps have a "You're over five seconds ahead of the guy behind you" flag that signals that the person will be black flagged if they don't back the pace down. If its just close racing we want and not the best riders in America riding the most technical tracks available then I don't see why not. Maybe everyone can take turns getting the holeshot. That would be exciting. Oh and on a serious note, as someone who is rooting for RV I will readily admit that I think this sport would be the Bubba and Reed show if they had never made the switch to thumpers. Maybe a couple guys could have snuck in there, but the talent gap would show itself. The fact that we don't seem interested in seeing talent rise to the top so much as making it easier for everyone to go the same speed is sad.
ButteryWaffles 2/14/2014 10:17am
2/14/2014 10:17am
sargeant wrote:
rv has the xact same style today. amazing. is # 17 somebody?
Greg Albertyn I think.
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dak446 2/14/2014 10:31am
2/14/2014 10:31am
theToothPerry wrote:
Remember in 05 when Stewart had to race against Carmichael who was on a 450 for outdoors? He was pretty damn close. If RC wouldve been...
Remember in 05 when Stewart had to race against Carmichael who was on a 450 for outdoors? He was pretty damn close. If RC wouldve been on an RM250 i think Stew wouldve won convincingly. He was that much better of a 2 stroke rider. Hands down.
I thought I was the only one who remembered James on a 250 vs. RC on 450. Sweet Jesus, people on this board must have amnesia.

For him to compete with the GOAT (on a 2 smoker) how he did was incredible.
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hvaughn88 2/14/2014 11:10am
2/14/2014 11:10am
Katoomey wrote:
the amount of alternate history fantasy going on in this thread is obnoxious. STOP BUYING FOURSTROKES!!!! thats the only thing that will change anything in that...
the amount of alternate history fantasy going on in this thread is obnoxious.

STOP BUYING FOURSTROKES!!!! thats the only thing that will change anything in that department.

as for pro racing, I don't want the gap to increase between the good and the bad. I'm a spectator. why would I want better riders to dominate? just so I can say "my" guy is the best? give me a fuckin break. you guys act like your such big fans of the sport, but your not, your just a bunch hero worshiping nut huggers.

It bugs the hell out of me how many grown men on this site worship other grown men. is there anything more pathetic than vicariously stroking your own ego?

and who gives a shit if the lap times are only 45 seconds. I'd rather watch 15 minutes of good racing than 20 minutes of one or two guys always up front.
those are actually some really good points
TheNewOriginal 2/14/2014 12:26pm
2/14/2014 12:26pm
Katoomey wrote:
the amount of alternate history fantasy going on in this thread is obnoxious. STOP BUYING FOURSTROKES!!!! thats the only thing that will change anything in that...
the amount of alternate history fantasy going on in this thread is obnoxious.

STOP BUYING FOURSTROKES!!!! thats the only thing that will change anything in that department.

as for pro racing, I don't want the gap to increase between the good and the bad. I'm a spectator. why would I want better riders to dominate? just so I can say "my" guy is the best? give me a fuckin break. you guys act like your such big fans of the sport, but your not, your just a bunch hero worshiping nut huggers.

It bugs the hell out of me how many grown men on this site worship other grown men. is there anything more pathetic than vicariously stroking your own ego?

and who gives a shit if the lap times are only 45 seconds. I'd rather watch 15 minutes of good racing than 20 minutes of one or two guys always up front.
Fkn A! Well said.
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Rupert X 2/14/2014 1:02pm
2/14/2014 1:02pm
I don't know about easy tracks, I do know that there were sections of this San Diego track that were almost

Endurocrossey. Ask anyone who watched or rode

Saturday morn practice....that one section was damn near impossible to navigate...

Pit Row

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Crush 2/14/2014 1:28pm
2/14/2014 1:28pm
sargeant wrote:
rv has the xact same style today. amazing. is # 17 somebody?
cody331 wrote:
I think it's Reynard?
That'd be 3 time world champ, 1 time national champ Greg Albertyn.
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jeffro503 2/14/2014 1:46pm
2/14/2014 1:46pm
Katoomey wrote:
the amount of alternate history fantasy going on in this thread is obnoxious. STOP BUYING FOURSTROKES!!!! thats the only thing that will change anything in that...
the amount of alternate history fantasy going on in this thread is obnoxious.

STOP BUYING FOURSTROKES!!!! thats the only thing that will change anything in that department.

as for pro racing, I don't want the gap to increase between the good and the bad. I'm a spectator. why would I want better riders to dominate? just so I can say "my" guy is the best? give me a fuckin break. you guys act like your such big fans of the sport, but your not, your just a bunch hero worshiping nut huggers.

It bugs the hell out of me how many grown men on this site worship other grown men. is there anything more pathetic than vicariously stroking your own ego?

and who gives a shit if the lap times are only 45 seconds. I'd rather watch 15 minutes of good racing than 20 minutes of one or two guys always up front.
TheNewOriginal wrote:
Fkn A! Well said.
I agree Ktoomey! very well said in deed!
StartedTooLate 2/14/2014 2:43pm
2/14/2014 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2014 2:44pm
If we put these bikes, and the current riders that have developed their skills on these bikes, on older style tracks with steeper jump faces, and less forgiving landings, we are going to see some horrific crashes that fans and FELD (and riders) are just not ready for.

These bikes corner so much faster because of the 4T throttle modulation, and the 450s have the ability to clear stuff right of corners. With steep jump faces, the heights that will be achieved would surprise you. In addition, steep jump faces create a finer razor edge of balance between body position and throttle control. More riders will make mistakes...more will go the hospital...or worse.

Make the jumps steeper...and these guys will go higher. Make them easier..they will go faster. There is no getting round the fact that today's bikes put power down more effectively... From a physics stand point...that means you either have more potential energy (height) or more kinetic energy (speed). I think the tracks have evolved to suit the bikes. Going the other way on track design will have consequences that some people have not thought through.
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rcm406 2/14/2014 2:57pm
2/14/2014 2:57pm
FastEddy wrote:
2002 Vegas SX
125 Shoot out
This is worth a watch if any of you guys have never seen it.
James on a 125's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve5gmi97blE
kongols wrote:
I like Bailey as a comentator.
I like this one better! 2003 Las Vegas SX. Watch the last few laps of heat 2 with Stewart. Unbelievable!
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rmzrider91 2/14/2014 3:12pm
2/14/2014 3:12pm
I remember being at REDBUUUDDDD in what was it 06 or 07 when JS was on 250 and RC was 450. They had shortened the run into the leap to make it harder and JS was stretching that thing out dam-near every lap to make it. His teammate at the time (I think Byrne?) didn't even jump it most of the time. I'm pretty sure RC won that race but it was still crazy seeing JS work the bike that hard for so many laps. I guarantee NOBODY on the track that year was riding a bike as hard as JS was. Anyone remember his last year in the 125 class he rode a 250f at the last race at Glen Helen?
lostboy819 2/14/2014 7:43pm
2/14/2014 7:43pm
P wrote:
When it comes to technique and skill on a motorcycle I think that James Stewart is the best that we have ever seen, that is why...
When it comes to technique and skill on a motorcycle I think that James Stewart is the best that we have ever seen, that is why he was so good on a 2-stroke. That's just MHO.


P
I would agree that at his peak and up against others in their peak Stewart was the fastest.
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the_wood109 2/14/2014 7:50pm
2/14/2014 7:50pm
Even if stewie never wins another race, not many people can say that they changed a sport forever.

Two strokes will always hold a certain nostalgia for many of us, but the racing now is great. I've kind of forgotten about that whole crusade.
lostboy819 2/14/2014 8:00pm
2/14/2014 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2014 8:01pm
Here is the 2003 shootout that James hit the ground HARD!!! at the about 5:35 you felt it in the stands

https://youtu.be/fWggoO7nVh8
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Outsider 2/14/2014 8:10pm
2/14/2014 8:10pm
You guys DO realize that no one is going to be able to ride a 450 (or 500 2T for that matter) like a 125 right?

You could put all these guys on a two stroke tomorrow... it's not going to look much different in the top 10, imo.
lostboy819 2/14/2014 8:57pm
2/14/2014 8:57pm
Outsider wrote:
You guys DO realize that no one is going to be able to ride a 450 (or 500 2T for that matter) like a 125 right...
You guys DO realize that no one is going to be able to ride a 450 (or 500 2T for that matter) like a 125 right?

You could put all these guys on a two stroke tomorrow... it's not going to look much different in the top 10, imo.

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