Why not add a 125 Two Stroke class?

2/2/2014 5:47pm
The people who knock 125 2-strokes or act as if their not adult sized racing machines are to weak to ride a 125 or to scared to ride it to it's potential....2-strokes were CHEATED off the vary track's they made by BULLSHIT science and worthless sanctioning bodies and loser bike manufactures...I don't care if you love 4 strokes or 2 strokes that's a fact...

I think each bike should have it's own class and maybe even different track's remember each stroke put's it's power to the ground differently. I'm a 2 stroke rider and would rather ride a track shaped by 2 stroke's and I imagine a 4 stroke rider feels the same....

For all you 4 stroke rider's so quick to knock our just cause (bring back the 2 stroke) you might be asking us 2 stroke rider's to sign a petition to save the 4 stroke some day so here's where we as brother's in the dirt stand together or help the power's that be screw us out of the greatest motorized sport man has ever known...It's time all you 4 stroke rider's stand up with us 2 stroke riders and save MX for all of us....Crazy Rooster 125
jndmx
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2/2/2014 5:53pm
The people who knock 125 2-strokes or act as if their not adult sized racing machines are to weak to ride a 125 or to scared...
The people who knock 125 2-strokes or act as if their not adult sized racing machines are to weak to ride a 125 or to scared to ride it to it's potential....2-strokes were CHEATED off the vary track's they made by BULLSHIT science and worthless sanctioning bodies and loser bike manufactures...I don't care if you love 4 strokes or 2 strokes that's a fact...

I think each bike should have it's own class and maybe even different track's remember each stroke put's it's power to the ground differently. I'm a 2 stroke rider and would rather ride a track shaped by 2 stroke's and I imagine a 4 stroke rider feels the same....

For all you 4 stroke rider's so quick to knock our just cause (bring back the 2 stroke) you might be asking us 2 stroke rider's to sign a petition to save the 4 stroke some day so here's where we as brother's in the dirt stand together or help the power's that be screw us out of the greatest motorized sport man has ever known...It's time all you 4 stroke rider's stand up with us 2 stroke riders and save MX for all of us....Crazy Rooster 125
The reason people mock is because you can race all the two-strokes you want in the Am and local races all over the country.....they are alive and well and sound great.

What you can't do is force a professional organization to sanction a bike the manufacturers don't sell.....it's dollars and cents.
Homogulation is up to the factory...when KTM wanted to race the 350 they damn well made sure to make and stock enough to do it.

What is stopping them from doing that now?
Oh yeah...they don't want to.

You might as well petition Ford to start making the Pinto again.
motogrady
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2/2/2014 5:56pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2014 5:57pm
Not true Crash476.

I remember an article in Cyclenews, Honda had I think it was Reynard testing an experimental 4 stroke of theirs.
What do they call their dual sports, EX's?
Whatever, they had a ton of sensors on it, nobody really knew what it was about ayt the time.
This was right before Yamaha came out with the experimental 400, which they used for the first year
against the 250's, under a new rule that let any manufacturer run anything they wanted, for one year
in AMA Pro.

Now, that rule has been stricken.

No, Honda knew what was coming, Yamaha was right there also, and the rest were caught sleeping.

Heck, Kawasaki and Suzuki even teamed up trying to get a 450motor on the track as quick as they could.

Remember James saying to a reporter, while he was still on a 250, what he needed to beat Ricky?

Kawasaki was taking so long, it was hurting 259, and he knew it.
JM485
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2/2/2014 6:26pm
I think it would be great to add a 125 (maybe) amateure class. Maybe just have them run one 10 lap race every round, and have the points totaled at the end. I honestly thing the racing would be great, slow but very close. As for the whole mess of how they killed the two stroke in pro racing, I don't even want to get into that mess. . .

The Shop

2/2/2014 6:35pm
motogrady wrote:
No, GuyB is pretty much correct. The big players, mainly Yamaha and Honda, got real green, and chose to quit making 2 strokes for the street...
No, GuyB is pretty much correct.

The big players, mainly Yamaha and Honda, got real green, and chose to quit making
2 strokes for the street, I dunno, late 70's..
Honda never really wanted to make the smoker.
Seems they felt entities like the EPA and Greenpiece would win out and they just
wanted to be ready for the future.

It was Yamaha that bullied, or lobbied the cheater rule with the AMA.

Why Motogp got rid of the 500s, I'd also think the manufactures were behind that.

I mean, who want's to race something you can't build and make a buck on?

Political correctness, that's what killed them.
No he is wrwr wrong and so are you. There is nothing stopping FELD/AMA/FIM from changing the rules to allow 150/300 and or putting restrictor plates on the 4 strokes. NOTHING. Just like there was NOTHING stopping them from allowing (as you put it) them to let Yamaha "bully or lobby them with the cheater rule". But somehow now the rules are set in stone? Really? Does FELD even need the AMA? Nope. Or the FIM? Nope. What's stopping FELD from making their own rulebook and showing the AMA the door? Nothing. The AMA is a broked1ck organization and FELD is a billion dollar company. Don't you know he who has the gold makes the rules? You'll say oh but Honda will pull out... Suzuki will pull out.... So the f@ck what??? They are the ones ruining the sport by putting the cost to compete way out of the average teenagers means. And whoever is left even if it's just KTM and Yamaha who cares. Is Reed on a factory Kawi, er uh 450? WP40 just made a couple of factory bikes look pretty bad. The sport will continue on without Honda.

You also state who wants to race something you can't make a buck on? What does that mean?

The EPA has never and will never regulate "closed course racing machines" for two reasons. 1 they do not put out enough emissions to even register on anyones list. You cannot produce for this forum any piece of official documentation from the EPA where they are even considering attempting to regulate motocross bikes can you? 2. Can you imagine the EPA putting restrictions on NASCAR, Formula 1, etc???? And you actually thought they would regulate dirt bikes??? Wanna buys some oceanfront property in Arizona?
The Rock
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2/2/2014 9:08pm
motogrady wrote:
Not true Crash476. I remember an article in Cyclenews, Honda had I think it was Reynard testing an experimental 4 stroke of theirs. What do they...
Not true Crash476.

I remember an article in Cyclenews, Honda had I think it was Reynard testing an experimental 4 stroke of theirs.
What do they call their dual sports, EX's?
Whatever, they had a ton of sensors on it, nobody really knew what it was about ayt the time.
This was right before Yamaha came out with the experimental 400, which they used for the first year
against the 250's, under a new rule that let any manufacturer run anything they wanted, for one year
in AMA Pro.

Now, that rule has been stricken.

No, Honda knew what was coming, Yamaha was right there also, and the rest were caught sleeping.

Heck, Kawasaki and Suzuki even teamed up trying to get a 450motor on the track as quick as they could.

Remember James saying to a reporter, while he was still on a 250, what he needed to beat Ricky?

Kawasaki was taking so long, it was hurting 259, and he knew it.
Heck, Kawasaki and Suzuki even teamed up trying to get a 450motor on the track as quick as they could

I only remember a joint 250 effort not a 450.

Regarding your political correctness point, that's a new one for me as it relates to why two strokes went away.
Jakes Dad
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2/2/2014 9:42pm
Jake likes picking on these +$7500 250f's here, may not win a lot. But asking most of them "how does it feel to get beat by a $1800 125 keeps them quiet.
early
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2/2/2014 10:10pm
1. The bike in the OP's pic is probably a 140 because who buys a 125cc Athena cylinder?

2. If you believe 2 strokes are better bikes, purchase a new one, off the shower on floor from Yamaha or ktusky or tm or beta or gas gas or some Chinese company. They are out there and the only thing that will bring them back to professional racing is a market force, not a petition.

3. Guys are not qualifying for the night show in the 250 class. A 2 stroke won't make them any faster and will make them only marginally richer after every other racing expense is added up.
2/2/2014 11:39pm
I do agree,
why not??
GuyB wrote:
A couple reasons? You'd need all the manufacturers doing it. Not just Yamaha and KTM. You'd also need bikes that are homologated for it. I don't...
A couple reasons?

You'd need all the manufacturers doing it. Not just Yamaha and KTM.

You'd also need bikes that are homologated for it. I don't think anyone does that.
why would you need all the manufacturers doing it? So should we do away with 85cc classes cause Honda doesn't make one? I dunno about SX, but I don't see an issue with having a 125 consi in the middle of the 1st and 2nd motos outdoors
motogrady
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2/3/2014 5:44am Edited Date/Time 2/3/2014 5:48am
motogrady wrote:
No, GuyB is pretty much correct. The big players, mainly Yamaha and Honda, got real green, and chose to quit making 2 strokes for the street...
No, GuyB is pretty much correct.

The big players, mainly Yamaha and Honda, got real green, and chose to quit making
2 strokes for the street, I dunno, late 70's..
Honda never really wanted to make the smoker.
Seems they felt entities like the EPA and Greenpiece would win out and they just
wanted to be ready for the future.

It was Yamaha that bullied, or lobbied the cheater rule with the AMA.

Why Motogp got rid of the 500s, I'd also think the manufactures were behind that.

I mean, who want's to race something you can't build and make a buck on?

Political correctness, that's what killed them.
No he is wrwr wrong and so are you. There is nothing stopping FELD/AMA/FIM from changing the rules to allow 150/300 and or putting restrictor plates...
No he is wrwr wrong and so are you. There is nothing stopping FELD/AMA/FIM from changing the rules to allow 150/300 and or putting restrictor plates on the 4 strokes. NOTHING. Just like there was NOTHING stopping them from allowing (as you put it) them to let Yamaha "bully or lobby them with the cheater rule". But somehow now the rules are set in stone? Really? Does FELD even need the AMA? Nope. Or the FIM? Nope. What's stopping FELD from making their own rulebook and showing the AMA the door? Nothing. The AMA is a broked1ck organization and FELD is a billion dollar company. Don't you know he who has the gold makes the rules? You'll say oh but Honda will pull out... Suzuki will pull out.... So the f@ck what??? They are the ones ruining the sport by putting the cost to compete way out of the average teenagers means. And whoever is left even if it's just KTM and Yamaha who cares. Is Reed on a factory Kawi, er uh 450? WP40 just made a couple of factory bikes look pretty bad. The sport will continue on without Honda.

You also state who wants to race something you can't make a buck on? What does that mean?

The EPA has never and will never regulate "closed course racing machines" for two reasons. 1 they do not put out enough emissions to even register on anyones list. You cannot produce for this forum any piece of official documentation from the EPA where they are even considering attempting to regulate motocross bikes can you? 2. Can you imagine the EPA putting restrictions on NASCAR, Formula 1, etc???? And you actually thought they would regulate dirt bikes??? Wanna buys some oceanfront property in Arizona?
Ha, another dreamer.

Feld, like XGames, may get away without the AMA blessing, for a bit.
But why would they want to? Why do you think they constantly mention the FIM?
It adds credibility. It validates the series.
Sure, they could make their own rules, just like DMG did with Roadracing.
Look what happened there.
That series is in shambles.
It never really recovered from when Honda walked on them, because they didn't like the rules.
You don't think Feld see's and remembers that?

As far as making a buck.
Why would Honda continue making an NSR500 2 stroke, and race them, when the EPA made the emissions regs so strict
the 2s could not get licensed for the street guys?
Why go on spending millions of dollars on something you can't sell to the public and get a return on?
Same with the CR, YZ, RM and KX.
They can't sell millions of them, they aren't interested.

As far as closed course bikes, you're right, there are not enough numbers for the EPA, or the manufactures to really care about them. So they make a motor that will pass EPA and kinda meet the needs of a small group of fanatics,
us, but still have a motor that can be made to meet EPA street emissions.

As far as EPA regulating Nascar, and the like, they already have those guys on self imposed fuel limits.

You really think the big 4 are gonna make a relative small number of specialized bikes for a few, that the masses
won't have a need for, and so will not buy?

Face it, racing series as we know them are created and designed to sell bikes for those that build them.
And right now, the 4s, for a few reasons, (I'm not gonna go into the "they make more on parts" thing), are it.

And Rock, Suzuki and Kawasaki were together on the 4 stroke thing, if remember correctly, on both size engines.
2/3/2014 6:02am
If you guys want to day dream try this........Id love to see what would happen if we could go back in time and get a 17 yo James Stewert on a KX125 and drop him into the current 250f class!
2/3/2014 8:29am
Some of you seem to think the manufacture's have to sell millions of 2-stroke's to justify manufacturing them.. How many 2-stroke mx bike's were being sold when it was nothing but 2-stroke's and even now when it's 4-stroke's the bike companies don't sell million's of bike's...The bike manufacture's build bike's to match the bike market and not over build to many of one model..

If the manufacture's only want to build bike's in massive numbers with no variation from model to model why not just build the most popular selling dirt bike and no other size's.. We can all ride 450 4$ or maybe the bike manufacture's could build the bike's the public want's...What are the number of bike's sold today and when it was 2-stroke's?????????

Some bike manufacture's build a lot of different size machine's and some don't, but all of them want to sell what they have made... Some bike companies sell so much other stuff that bike sale's are a small amount of their overall sale's. Look at Kawasaki heavy industries for an example....2-stroke mx forever....Crazy Rooster125
2/3/2014 10:18am
WoW! Thanks for everyones input! Will chime in once I finish catching up!

A little EYE CANDY! who sayz a 125 can't compete!
fanger
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2/3/2014 6:32pm
If it's such an issue, support the series do allow two strokes like the Australian mx and so championships.

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