Church is Kicking Out Boyscouts

RocketLab
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Edited Date/Time 11/11/2013 10:01am
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor them. I've yet to get their exact stated reasoning its a diversion but we know what its all about.

How can a house of God punish good aspiring boys over what we know this is all about and still call themselves a house of God.
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11/7/2013 7:59am
RocketLab wrote:
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor...
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor them. I've yet to get their exact stated reasoning its a diversion but we know what its all about.

How can a house of God punish good aspiring boys over what we know this is all about and still call themselves a house of God.
If this is about what we think this is about, they shouldn't. It's lame and antithetical to the gospel. I am sure there are plenty of other churches that would be happy to host them.
Choppy
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11/7/2013 8:34am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2013 8:35am
I think it's dumb, but if it goes against what they believe in that's their prerogative.
If the bible says we don't support X group, and the boy scouts do support X group, why should anyone expect them to support the Boy Scouts?

Take the kids and show/teach them how to get a new church/group to support them, and turn a negative into a positives a apposed to crying about it.
burn1986
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11/7/2013 8:41am
It makes you wonder why X group is so concerned about Boyscouts anyway. Our church still supports Boy scouts. X group just wanted to make a stink and isn't worried about too much of anything else. Hopefully they will tone it down and let the Boy scouts continue to function.
jtomasik
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11/7/2013 8:43am
RocketLab wrote:
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor...
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor them. I've yet to get their exact stated reasoning its a diversion but we know what its all about.

How can a house of God punish good aspiring boys over what we know this is all about and still call themselves a house of God.
Because a church or religion represents itself and not God.

The Shop

Crash82
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11/7/2013 8:44am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2013 9:17am
Oops I forgot this is religion. Sorry.
Choppy
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11/7/2013 8:48am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2013 8:49am
burn1986 wrote:
It makes you wonder why X group is so concerned about Boyscouts anyway. Our church still supports Boy scouts. X group just wanted to make a...
It makes you wonder why X group is so concerned about Boyscouts anyway. Our church still supports Boy scouts. X group just wanted to make a stink and isn't worried about too much of anything else. Hopefully they will tone it down and let the Boy scouts continue to function.
Anyone want to inform me on what x group is. I assume it's the LGBT social movement, but I must be honest in saying I don't exactly follow this stuff.

Regardless of how dumb I think it is and how much I don't believe in god, it's the churches right to not support a group that does not fall in line with the beliefs of the church, and the Boy Scouts/parents rights to not support that church anymore.
jtomasik
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11/7/2013 9:24am
burn1986 wrote:
It makes you wonder why X group is so concerned about Boyscouts anyway. Our church still supports Boy scouts. X group just wanted to make a...
It makes you wonder why X group is so concerned about Boyscouts anyway. Our church still supports Boy scouts. X group just wanted to make a stink and isn't worried about too much of anything else. Hopefully they will tone it down and let the Boy scouts continue to function.
Choppy wrote:
Anyone want to inform me on what x group is. I assume it's the LGBT social movement, but I must be honest in saying I don't...
Anyone want to inform me on what x group is. I assume it's the LGBT social movement, but I must be honest in saying I don't exactly follow this stuff.

Regardless of how dumb I think it is and how much I don't believe in god, it's the churches right to not support a group that does not fall in line with the beliefs of the church, and the Boy Scouts/parents rights to not support that church anymore.
Kinda curious where the line of inequality gets drawn. Is a church excluding gays ok? What about blacks? It''s some muddy water out there.
DoctorJD
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11/7/2013 9:42am
RocketLab wrote:
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor...
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor them. I've yet to get their exact stated reasoning its a diversion but we know what its all about.

How can a house of God punish good aspiring boys over what we know this is all about and still call themselves a house of God.
Let me guess: Its a Baptist church, right?

BTW, my church still supports the scouts, and unless they become a cult of satan worshippers, we always will.
Choppy
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11/7/2013 10:16am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2013 10:17am
jtomasik wrote:
Kinda curious where the line of inequality gets drawn. Is a church excluding gays ok? What about blacks? It''s some muddy water out there.
They don't seem like they're telling them they can't go to church.
They're telling them they won't be sponsoring a group because they don't believe/support their views

I dont sponsor the local church here because I don't support their religious views or views on god. Is that inequality?
RocketLab
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11/7/2013 10:25am
It's a Church of Christ. While I'm not religious and not a young father (3 grandkids as well) I am extremely impressed with the Boy Scouts and everything they do to prepare a young boy/man for life. Obviously they are religious based as well which is fine with me. Having said that I find it extremely frustrating that a church whose ideal of a good young christian man you would think would be a boy scout should choose to disassociate themselves over the gay scout issue. It's not the kid's fault that the gay agenda is being pushed.

Prior to this I was with my son selling popcorn door to door. I would stand at the sidewalk and wait for him to present the sale. One lady told him she does not support the scouts and closed the door in his face. People need to get a clue how they affect the kids when dealing with these subject matters.
Choppy
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11/7/2013 10:28am
RocketLab wrote:
It's a Church of Christ. While I'm not religious and not a young father (3 grandkids as well) I am extremely impressed with the Boy Scouts...
It's a Church of Christ. While I'm not religious and not a young father (3 grandkids as well) I am extremely impressed with the Boy Scouts and everything they do to prepare a young boy/man for life. Obviously they are religious based as well which is fine with me. Having said that I find it extremely frustrating that a church whose ideal of a good young christian man you would think would be a boy scout should choose to disassociate themselves over the gay scout issue. It's not the kid's fault that the gay agenda is being pushed.

Prior to this I was with my son selling popcorn door to door. I would stand at the sidewalk and wait for him to present the sale. One lady told him she does not support the scouts and closed the door in his face. People need to get a clue how they affect the kids when dealing with these subject matters.
Companies and organizations should now be required to sponsor any group, regardless of belief, as long as it has kids?
jtomasik
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11/7/2013 10:51am
jtomasik wrote:
Kinda curious where the line of inequality gets drawn. Is a church excluding gays ok? What about blacks? It''s some muddy water out there.
Choppy wrote:
They don't seem like they're telling them they can't go to church. They're telling them they won't be sponsoring a group because they don't believe/support their...
They don't seem like they're telling them they can't go to church.
They're telling them they won't be sponsoring a group because they don't believe/support their views

I dont sponsor the local church here because I don't support their religious views or views on god. Is that inequality?
Point noted. Still, I wonder what the backlash would be if the church said they were pulling the sponsorship because there were black people allowed in the organization. I bet it'd be a bit different.
Choppy
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11/7/2013 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 11/7/2013 12:27pm
jtomasik wrote:
Point noted. Still, I wonder what the backlash would be if the church said they were pulling the sponsorship because there were black people allowed in...
Point noted. Still, I wonder what the backlash would be if the church said they were pulling the sponsorship because there were black people allowed in the organization. I bet it'd be a bit different.
If they're not supporting the boy scouts because of the LGBT thing, I'm sure they don't support many "black" organizations that aren't outside of America.

I'm not condoning what they did, because I don't agree with it. I'm simply saying that right or wrong, a company/organization can choose to sponsor or not sponsor whoever they want.

If you think statistical discrimination is not still occurring to this day you're kidding yourself, especially in situations where you don't have enough transparency and competition to correct discrimination.

For example black men on average are quoted 1000 dollars more than a white person for a car. I'd guess the same would happen to a gay person if he was openly gay.
11/7/2013 12:51pm
jtomasik wrote:
Kinda curious where the line of inequality gets drawn. Is a church excluding gays ok? What about blacks? It''s some muddy water out there.
Choppy wrote:
They don't seem like they're telling them they can't go to church. They're telling them they won't be sponsoring a group because they don't believe/support their...
They don't seem like they're telling them they can't go to church.
They're telling them they won't be sponsoring a group because they don't believe/support their views

I dont sponsor the local church here because I don't support their religious views or views on god. Is that inequality?
jtomasik wrote:
Point noted. Still, I wonder what the backlash would be if the church said they were pulling the sponsorship because there were black people allowed in...
Point noted. Still, I wonder what the backlash would be if the church said they were pulling the sponsorship because there were black people allowed in the organization. I bet it'd be a bit different.
Some good points made here all the way around.

I don't understand this myself. First, let me start with the fact that I am a Christian.

Because I am a Christian, that means I believe that we are all human, fallible and we have a sin problem. I personally believe that having sex with a person of the same gender is a sin, but it is no different from any other sin. If a church is going to kick out a group because there is a certain amount or type of sin perceived to be allowed by that group, they may as well start with their regular members. None of us are without sin. That doesn't mean I condone sin if I let the Boyscouts use the church building - no more than I condone sin because Joe Pew Sitter is an alcoholic, or questions his faith, or masturbates in his spare time, or smokes a big fatty now and then, or hates someone because of (insert reason here). Churches are full of imperfect people. Churches, in the end, are sort of like hospitals where sick people, once they realize they are sick, go to get healthy - through God's grace and the interaction with other sick people trying to get healthy.

Of course there has to be some sort of line drawn. I don't think it would be wise to let satan worshipers sacrifice goats in the church while they are "skyclad" and that sort of thing. Yet, in the end, it is just more sin. It could be an opportunity to reach those goat killers. Or Boyscouts. Or whatever group wants to use the church. It just depends on the local congregation and what they are willing to tolerate. Personally, I would try and at least have dialogue with any group that wants to use the church. As long as they were willing to clean up, not tear things up, and lock up after their festivities, I really wouldn't care. It's just a building - the Spirit of God indwells believers - not buildings.
Huevos
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11/7/2013 2:45pm
Some good points made here all the way around. I don't understand this myself. First, let me start with the fact that I am a Christian...
Some good points made here all the way around.

I don't understand this myself. First, let me start with the fact that I am a Christian.

Because I am a Christian, that means I believe that we are all human, fallible and we have a sin problem. I personally believe that having sex with a person of the same gender is a sin, but it is no different from any other sin. If a church is going to kick out a group because there is a certain amount or type of sin perceived to be allowed by that group, they may as well start with their regular members. None of us are without sin. That doesn't mean I condone sin if I let the Boyscouts use the church building - no more than I condone sin because Joe Pew Sitter is an alcoholic, or questions his faith, or masturbates in his spare time, or smokes a big fatty now and then, or hates someone because of (insert reason here). Churches are full of imperfect people. Churches, in the end, are sort of like hospitals where sick people, once they realize they are sick, go to get healthy - through God's grace and the interaction with other sick people trying to get healthy.

Of course there has to be some sort of line drawn. I don't think it would be wise to let satan worshipers sacrifice goats in the church while they are "skyclad" and that sort of thing. Yet, in the end, it is just more sin. It could be an opportunity to reach those goat killers. Or Boyscouts. Or whatever group wants to use the church. It just depends on the local congregation and what they are willing to tolerate. Personally, I would try and at least have dialogue with any group that wants to use the church. As long as they were willing to clean up, not tear things up, and lock up after their festivities, I really wouldn't care. It's just a building - the Spirit of God indwells believers - not buildings.
It is REALLY nice reading that. I'm really tired of reading very offensive atheist views all the time. (I'm really tired of being told how simple minded/ignorant/stupid I am because I believe in God or an organized religion). I respect everyone's beliefs. I don't believe religious beliefs should ever infringe upon the rights of others, but I also believe people have a right to believe what they want and not be ridiculed for it if they respect the rights of others. I believe that church's should have the right to choose to support or not support outside groups based on similar morals. Separation of church and state is dying, simply because religious beliefs have no protection anymore. Seems like churches are automatically accused of being hateful and full of bigotry if they openly state they oppose homosexuality.
11/7/2013 7:05pm
Huevos wrote:
It is REALLY nice reading that. I'm really tired of reading very offensive atheist views all the time. (I'm really tired of being told how simple...
It is REALLY nice reading that. I'm really tired of reading very offensive atheist views all the time. (I'm really tired of being told how simple minded/ignorant/stupid I am because I believe in God or an organized religion). I respect everyone's beliefs. I don't believe religious beliefs should ever infringe upon the rights of others, but I also believe people have a right to believe what they want and not be ridiculed for it if they respect the rights of others. I believe that church's should have the right to choose to support or not support outside groups based on similar morals. Separation of church and state is dying, simply because religious beliefs have no protection anymore. Seems like churches are automatically accused of being hateful and full of bigotry if they openly state they oppose homosexuality.
Friend, you are far from "simple-minded" if you claim to be a person of faith. Please do spend some time here when you feel your reasons for belief need some supporting evidence.

We should expect difficulty as the time draws nigh. These things were written about long ago. We should not blame our friends and fellow moto-lovers. We are all depraved and in need of grace.
jtomasik
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11/7/2013 8:02pm
Huevos wrote:
It is REALLY nice reading that. I'm really tired of reading very offensive atheist views all the time. (I'm really tired of being told how simple...
It is REALLY nice reading that. I'm really tired of reading very offensive atheist views all the time. (I'm really tired of being told how simple minded/ignorant/stupid I am because I believe in God or an organized religion). I respect everyone's beliefs. I don't believe religious beliefs should ever infringe upon the rights of others, but I also believe people have a right to believe what they want and not be ridiculed for it if they respect the rights of others. I believe that church's should have the right to choose to support or not support outside groups based on similar morals. Separation of church and state is dying, simply because religious beliefs have no protection anymore. Seems like churches are automatically accused of being hateful and full of bigotry if they openly state they oppose homosexuality.
Friend, you are far from "simple-minded" if you claim to be a person of faith. Please do [url=http://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/debates/latest]spend some time here[/url] when you feel your reasons...
Friend, you are far from "simple-minded" if you claim to be a person of faith. Please do spend some time here when you feel your reasons for belief need some supporting evidence.

We should expect difficulty as the time draws nigh. These things were written about long ago. We should not blame our friends and fellow moto-lovers. We are all depraved and in need of grace.
The First and Last Freedom

Religion is what you get when you follow other people around.
11/7/2013 8:12pm
jtomasik wrote:
The First and Last Freedom

Religion is what you get when you follow other people around.
Correct. When you follow the God-Man around, you don't get religion - you get truth.

I have read all of your posts here (the posts you've made since I joined up) and I find you to be a bright, thoughtful person. Obviously, you have a deep-seated hatred of religion. Me too.
burn1986
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11/8/2013 8:32am
jtomasik wrote:
Kinda curious where the line of inequality gets drawn. Is a church excluding gays ok? What about blacks? It''s some muddy water out there.
Well, I think the whole point was they didn't want gay troop leaders out in the woods with a bunch of little boys. Not a good situation.
Choppy
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11/8/2013 9:52am
jtomasik wrote:
Kinda curious where the line of inequality gets drawn. Is a church excluding gays ok? What about blacks? It''s some muddy water out there.
burn1986 wrote:
Well, I think the whole point was they didn't want gay troop leaders out in the woods with a bunch of little boys. Not a good...
Well, I think the whole point was they didn't want gay troop leaders out in the woods with a bunch of little boys. Not a good situation.
You wouldn't want pedophiles out in the woods with a bunch of little boys. Gay people are not pedophiles.
RocketLab
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11/8/2013 10:18am
jtomasik wrote:
Kinda curious where the line of inequality gets drawn. Is a church excluding gays ok? What about blacks? It''s some muddy water out there.
burn1986 wrote:
Well, I think the whole point was they didn't want gay troop leaders out in the woods with a bunch of little boys. Not a good...
Well, I think the whole point was they didn't want gay troop leaders out in the woods with a bunch of little boys. Not a good situation.
Gays are not allowed to be troop leaders. The recent ruling allows gay kids to participate in Boy Scouts.
Racer92
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11/8/2013 11:08am
RocketLab wrote:
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor...
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor them. I've yet to get their exact stated reasoning its a diversion but we know what its all about.

How can a house of God punish good aspiring boys over what we know this is all about and still call themselves a house of God.
Why do you care what they support or dont support. If you feel that strongly about it, get out your checkbook and construct a building and fund the program yourself.

Just love how some people always wanna tell someone else how to spend their money.
Huevos
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11/8/2013 3:11pm
Correct. When you follow the God-Man around, you don't get religion - you get truth. I have read all of your posts here (the posts you've...
Correct. When you follow the God-Man around, you don't get religion - you get truth.

I have read all of your posts here (the posts you've made since I joined up) and I find you to be a bright, thoughtful person. Obviously, you have a deep-seated hatred of religion. Me too.
Here we go...
ocscottie
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11/8/2013 3:25pm
Speaking of Church's. have you guys seen this one? Blink Laughing

Saw it on Leno or Kimmel, some architect made a booboo lol

Choppy
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11/8/2013 3:28pm
RocketLab wrote:
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor...
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor them. I've yet to get their exact stated reasoning its a diversion but we know what its all about.

How can a house of God punish good aspiring boys over what we know this is all about and still call themselves a house of God.
Racer92 wrote:
Why do you care what they support or dont support. If you feel that strongly about it, get out your checkbook and construct a building and...
Why do you care what they support or dont support. If you feel that strongly about it, get out your checkbook and construct a building and fund the program yourself.

Just love how some people always wanna tell someone else how to spend their money.
This is what I tried to say.

I don't believe in god, and don't feel in discriminating against any class, but now we're going to tell people what and who they should sponsor/give money too? Most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile.
Choppy
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11/8/2013 3:29pm
ocscottie wrote:
Speaking of Church's. have you guys seen this one? :blink: :laugh: Saw it on Leno or Kimmel, some architect made a booboo lol [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/11/08/36131/s1200_DSC00102.jpg[/img]
Speaking of Church's. have you guys seen this one? Blink Laughing

Saw it on Leno or Kimmel, some architect made a booboo lol

Hahaha doesn't seen like a mistake to me.
burn1986
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11/8/2013 4:05pm
ocscottie wrote:
Speaking of Church's. have you guys seen this one? :blink: :laugh: Saw it on Leno or Kimmel, some architect made a booboo lol [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/11/08/36131/s1200_DSC00102.jpg[/img]
Speaking of Church's. have you guys seen this one? Blink Laughing

Saw it on Leno or Kimmel, some architect made a booboo lol

Oh man, you've got to admit, that is freakin hilarious!Laughing
the_wood109
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11/8/2013 4:27pm
RocketLab wrote:
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor...
My son's Boy Scout troop leaders just announced the church they have been affiliated with for something like 10 years is no longer willing to sponsor them. I've yet to get their exact stated reasoning its a diversion but we know what its all about.

How can a house of God punish good aspiring boys over what we know this is all about and still call themselves a house of God.
Racer92 wrote:
Why do you care what they support or dont support. If you feel that strongly about it, get out your checkbook and construct a building and...
Why do you care what they support or dont support. If you feel that strongly about it, get out your checkbook and construct a building and fund the program yourself.

Just love how some people always wanna tell someone else how to spend their money.
Choppy wrote:
This is what I tried to say. I don't believe in god, and don't feel in discriminating against any class, but now we're going to tell...
This is what I tried to say.

I don't believe in god, and don't feel in discriminating against any class, but now we're going to tell people what and who they should sponsor/give money too? Most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile.
At the same time, if it wasn't a religious organization, how do you get the tax breaks? According to O'Reily, christianity isn't a religion, but a philosophy.

Perhaps people are realizing the the whole "house of god" thing is bullshit, and therefore the churches aren't raking in as much cash.
Choppy
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11/8/2013 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2013 5:58pm
At the same time, if it wasn't a religious organization, how do you get the tax breaks? According to O'Reily, christianity isn't a religion, but a...
At the same time, if it wasn't a religious organization, how do you get the tax breaks? According to O'Reily, christianity isn't a religion, but a philosophy.

Perhaps people are realizing the the whole "house of god" thing is bullshit, and therefore the churches aren't raking in as much cash.
Christianity is one of the worlds largest religions, regardless of what O'Reily says.
Religion and philosophy can try to tackle similar questions so you can have things such as Christian philosophy, but they're very much different on many notes.

The big difference is that philosophy try's to depend on reason and critical thinking, not "faith" like a religion does. Someone with more information on philosophy would be able to tell you more, but yeah, anyone not claiming Christianity as a religion is a dumb ass. It spends something like 100 billion a year in America alone meaning they won't be going anywhere.
the_wood109
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11/8/2013 10:06pm
At the same time, if it wasn't a religious organization, how do you get the tax breaks? According to O'Reily, christianity isn't a religion, but a...
At the same time, if it wasn't a religious organization, how do you get the tax breaks? According to O'Reily, christianity isn't a religion, but a philosophy.

Perhaps people are realizing the the whole "house of god" thing is bullshit, and therefore the churches aren't raking in as much cash.
Choppy wrote:
Christianity is one of the worlds largest religions, regardless of what O'Reily says. Religion and philosophy can try to tackle similar questions so you can have...
Christianity is one of the worlds largest religions, regardless of what O'Reily says.
Religion and philosophy can try to tackle similar questions so you can have things such as Christian philosophy, but they're very much different on many notes.

The big difference is that philosophy try's to depend on reason and critical thinking, not "faith" like a religion does. Someone with more information on philosophy would be able to tell you more, but yeah, anyone not claiming Christianity as a religion is a dumb ass. It spends something like 100 billion a year in America alone meaning they won't be going anywhere.
Regardless of what anyone says? I avoid the political bullshit for a reason. Apologists are the only ones that have any type of argument. Critical thinking they have not. Just pointing out through the political fog, perhaps it's just another means...til what end?The great things that religions do, the faith they must have...what was the best way to not spread aids, again? I almost forgot through the holyness. Not the dick-glove, of course. Just spread disease until the unproven say stop Tongue A woman in charge of her body? what is this? Man has never heard of such a thing. Black man as president, sure....a woman? her with the vagina? Can't say breast or vagina since there are children born from there...

The pope is the only one that has ever embraced a disfigured man? A photo op proves it all, I suppose....

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