Roczen joins Aldon....

UpTiTe wrote:

The intensity level of motocross and supercross at the highest level is every bit as demanding as any endurance sport. Anytime your heart rate is elevated...

The intensity level of motocross and supercross at the highest level is every bit as demanding as any endurance sport. Anytime your heart rate is elevated to 93-96% of your HR max for extended amounts of time (15-35 minutes), its the same as any endurance sport. Plus the workout your overall body takes, and yes, PEDs absolutly help.

You saked, "You really think a world class trainer with all the knowledge they have in this day and age is going to recommend something to risk a guy's health?" Absolutly, because like I said before, all the training in the world wont change your DNA makeup, everybody has a limit, no matter how much training they do.

Outsider wrote:

Again, I never said PED's don't or wouldn't help. What bothers me is that most people are completely ignorant on the subject so when a comment...

Again, I never said PED's don't or wouldn't help. What bothers me is that most people are completely ignorant on the subject so when a comment is made about "Juicing" people automatically assume stuff that isn't even close to reality. Having said that, 30 +2, while taxing the body, is NOT the same as a hardcore endurance event like the TDF... "The modern editions of the Tour de France consist of 21 day-long segments (stages) over a 23-day period and cover around 3,200 kilometres (2,000 mi)"

It's a grey area, and when you make blanket statements people make assumptions that are wrong. I injected testosterone yesterday... does that mean I'm juicing? LOL. There are so many levels of use, and abuse that trying to label it is ridiculous.

So, when a guy like yourself, a former pro makes accusations on the internet without knowing what's really used or not used, and to what degree, gives Joe C class the wrong impression.

Never mind the fact the accusations almost always involve RV, but not his closest competitor, Dungey, or anybody else... hmmm.

kev472 wrote:

@Outsider I know what your trying to say In case of mister Olympia they will boost their test to super physiological levels There's a reason the...

@Outsider
I know what your trying to say
In case of mister Olympia they will boost their test to super physiological levels
There's a reason the IFBB doesn't test their athletes .
And maybe a cyclist would wanna get his levels back to the normal range or just above

But that raises the next question
But isn't cheating even a small amount,stil cheating

Sorry forgot to quote

Choppy wrote:

You guys might have a point if we had athletes who kicked everyone's ass for 20 minutes, then took a shit and fell back 10 spots...

You guys might have a point if we had athletes who kicked everyone's ass for 20 minutes, then took a shit and fell back 10 spots.
For some reason these kids kicked ass when they were 5,6,7,8,9 and 10 years old as well. Were they juicing then as well ?

I'm not naive and think we don't have drugs in this sport, but how much are they actually helping?

colonel wrote:

2 simple and very effective drugs: EPO and HGH. HGH is indetectable at present and EPO has a very short shelf life in blood and even...

2 simple and very effective drugs: EPO and HGH. HGH is indetectable at present and EPO has a very short shelf life in blood and even shorter in urine.

Both will have a huge effect on any athlete.

Choppy wrote:

You guys might have a point if we had athletes who kicked everyone's ass for 20 minutes, then took a shit and fell back 10 spots...

You guys might have a point if we had athletes who kicked everyone's ass for 20 minutes, then took a shit and fell back 10 spots.
For some reason these kids kicked ass when they were 5,6,7,8,9 and 10 years old as well. Were they juicing then as well ?

I'm not naive and think we don't have drugs in this sport, but how much are they actually helping?

colonel wrote:

Simple: You can train harder, recover quicker and sustain a higher training load and intensity for a longer duration. 10% gain in training load and adaptation...

Simple: You can train harder, recover quicker and sustain a higher training load and intensity for a longer duration.

10% gain in training load and adaptation is the difference between 1st and 5th.

Choppy wrote:

You guys might have a point if we had athletes who kicked everyone's ass for 20 minutes, then took a shit and fell back 10 spots...

You guys might have a point if we had athletes who kicked everyone's ass for 20 minutes, then took a shit and fell back 10 spots.
For some reason these kids kicked ass when they were 5,6,7,8,9 and 10 years old as well. Were they juicing then as well ?

I'm not naive and think we don't have drugs in this sport, but how much are they actually helping?

colonel wrote:

Simple: You can train harder, recover quicker and sustain a higher training load and intensity for a longer duration. 10% gain in training load and adaptation...

Simple: You can train harder, recover quicker and sustain a higher training load and intensity for a longer duration.

10% gain in training load and adaptation is the difference between 1st and 5th.

Choppy wrote:

And who has made these astronomical leaps from amateur to pros? Point is most of these riders dominated as young children, breaking records and are now...

And who has made these astronomical leaps from amateur to pros?
Point is most of these riders dominated as young children, breaking records and are now doing the same.

Again, not dumb enough to think drugs are not in any pro sport, but are the drugs making winners out of kids already winning or?

colonel wrote:

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it...

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it will be like modifying a motor on a bike. Stock is really good but with mods its fucking fantastic.

Lance Giro 2009 & Tour 2010 vs Lance Tour 2009.

colonel wrote:

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it...

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it will be like modifying a motor on a bike. Stock is really good but with mods its fucking fantastic.

Lance Giro 2009 & Tour 2010 vs Lance Tour 2009.

colonel wrote:

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it...

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it will be like modifying a motor on a bike. Stock is really good but with mods its fucking fantastic.

Lance Giro 2009 & Tour 2010 vs Lance Tour 2009.

IWreckALot wrote:

But you still don't have proof that RV or any other rider is juicing right? Just accusations/assumptions?

colonel wrote:

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it...

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it will be like modifying a motor on a bike. Stock is really good but with mods its fucking fantastic.

Lance Giro 2009 & Tour 2010 vs Lance Tour 2009.

Choppy wrote:

My guess. If anyone's using PEDs(and just like any sport someone is), it's the lower level riders that can't afford the nutritionists/trainers /expensive blood work that...

My guess.
If anyone's using PEDs(and just like any sport someone is), it's the lower level riders that can't afford the nutritionists/trainers /expensive blood work that shows what's really going on with the body.

Choppy wrote:

I fail to see the comparison between the tour and a one day race format with training during the week.

colonel wrote:

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it...

No they are not and Im not saying it will make a donkey a race horse, far from it, talent is the main ingredient but it will be like modifying a motor on a bike. Stock is really good but with mods its fucking fantastic.

Lance Giro 2009 & Tour 2010 vs Lance Tour 2009.

Choppy wrote:

My guess. If anyone's using PEDs(and just like any sport someone is), it's the lower level riders that can't afford the nutritionists/trainers /expensive blood work that...

My guess.
If anyone's using PEDs(and just like any sport someone is), it's the lower level riders that can't afford the nutritionists/trainers /expensive blood work that shows what's really going on with the body.

colonel wrote:

No, it would be all the way through all the different levels as each will have its benefits. As with all Elite and top level amateur...

No, it would be all the way through all the different levels as each will have its benefits. As with all Elite and top level amateur sports from highchool to Olympic level.

Choppy wrote:

I fail to see the comparison between the tour and a one day race format with training during the week.

colonel wrote:

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training...

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training load and volume over a year is a huge amount and the training stress it places on your body is something you do not understand. A 35min moto will return a training stress of about 90tss. For that short duration it is a large score. Add all your motos, strength work, cardio work and having to recover from injuries that all adds up over a year and to recover from that, not be in a fatigued state and allow that training load to and gains to take effect PED's help and accelerate all those factors.

You are fresher quicker and can go harder for longer and more often.

As I said you do not know enough to understand this and how physiology works.

Choppy wrote:

I fail to see the comparison between the tour and a one day race format with training during the week.

colonel wrote:

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training...

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training load and volume over a year is a huge amount and the training stress it places on your body is something you do not understand. A 35min moto will return a training stress of about 90tss. For that short duration it is a large score. Add all your motos, strength work, cardio work and having to recover from injuries that all adds up over a year and to recover from that, not be in a fatigued state and allow that training load to and gains to take effect PED's help and accelerate all those factors.

You are fresher quicker and can go harder for longer and more often.

As I said you do not know enough to understand this and how physiology works.

Choppy wrote:

Clearly all those parents are juicing their kids at 5 years old to win because those are the same kids winning now...

Choppy wrote:

My guess. If anyone's using PEDs(and just like any sport someone is), it's the lower level riders that can't afford the nutritionists/trainers /expensive blood work that...

My guess.
If anyone's using PEDs(and just like any sport someone is), it's the lower level riders that can't afford the nutritionists/trainers /expensive blood work that shows what's really going on with the body.

colonel wrote:

No, it would be all the way through all the different levels as each will have its benefits. As with all Elite and top level amateur...

No, it would be all the way through all the different levels as each will have its benefits. As with all Elite and top level amateur sports from highchool to Olympic level.

Choppy wrote:

You're now bringing in sports where people win by a tenth of a second, in every race and these drugs are used to try and gain...

You're now bringing in sports where people win by a tenth of a second, in every race and these drugs are used to try and gain less than a tenth here and there

When was the last season where every race was determined by half a second or less?
At what test track is every racer almost at the same pace?

Choppy wrote:

I fail to see the comparison between the tour and a one day race format with training during the week.

colonel wrote:

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training...

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training load and volume over a year is a huge amount and the training stress it places on your body is something you do not understand. A 35min moto will return a training stress of about 90tss. For that short duration it is a large score. Add all your motos, strength work, cardio work and having to recover from injuries that all adds up over a year and to recover from that, not be in a fatigued state and allow that training load to and gains to take effect PED's help and accelerate all those factors.

You are fresher quicker and can go harder for longer and more often.

As I said you do not know enough to understand this and how physiology works.

colonel wrote:

I never once said they are. I have just said what the benefits are and if riders had to use anything it would probably be those...

I never once said they are. I have just said what the benefits are and if riders had to use anything it would probably be those 2 products due to their benefits. No where did I say any rider is.

Choppy wrote:

I fail to see the comparison between the tour and a one day race format with training during the week.

colonel wrote:

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training...

Please dont take this as an attack its not but you clearly do not know enough about training and recovery at that level then. The training load and volume over a year is a huge amount and the training stress it places on your body is something you do not understand. A 35min moto will return a training stress of about 90tss. For that short duration it is a large score. Add all your motos, strength work, cardio work and having to recover from injuries that all adds up over a year and to recover from that, not be in a fatigued state and allow that training load to and gains to take effect PED's help and accelerate all those factors.

You are fresher quicker and can go harder for longer and more often.

As I said you do not know enough to understand this and how physiology works.

flapper wrote:

This started out as a good topic and sure went for a shit!!! I sure wish some of you PED EXPERTS would put up or shut...

This started out as a good topic and sure went for a shit!!! I sure wish some of you PED EXPERTS would put up or shut up. You know RV's 100,000$ deal,so if you are so sure go make yourself a hundred grand otherwise STFU. It's a joke that a guy can't start a topic with RV or Aldon in it without some clown bringing in the PED conspiracy.!
Unless you have actually done and been tested for PED'S you don't know shit!!!

UpTiTe wrote:

Every rider Aldon has won with has won without him. Aldon trains Wiemer and Rattrey too, how are they doing ? RV wins because he is...

Every rider Aldon has won with has won without him.

Aldon trains Wiemer and Rattrey too, how are they doing ?

RV wins because he is an animal, not because of Aldon. Rokz would win no matter who he trains with if he wasn't lazy, he needs to kick that first.

colonel wrote:

Weimer has left Aldon and gone back to his old trainer for 2014 and I dont think he is working with Tyla anymore now that he...

Weimer has left Aldon and gone back to his old trainer for 2014 and I dont think he is working with Tyla anymore now that he has gone to Europe.

UpTiTe wrote:

Yes i know, it was an example.

hasko158 wrote:

Maybe a sign that the rumor is true about Kenny is jumping ship and going to 22 riding a Kawi?

Nicknku wrote:

RV's $100,000 bet is laughable, he should have never said that. It sounded extremely defensive.

Nicknku wrote:

RV's $100,000 bet is laughable, he should have never said that. It sounded extremely defensive.

flapper wrote:

Well if it's laughable put up the 100K!! Of course it sounded defensive, he was defending himself from all the so called experts with all of...

Well if it's laughable put up the 100K!! Of course it sounded defensive, he was defending himself from all the so called experts with all of this invisible non producible proof!!
Banter is banter but all this PED talk whenever Rv or Aldon are mentioned is a joke. How about how Tomac came on so strong half way through the season,and Johns involvement in cycling? What about Dungey and his fitness,being on par with Rv? How about Davi during SX this year compared to last? People can build this conspiracy theory over all kinds of riders performances yet have no proof =ing talking out there asses.

Drugs in sports,yup. Drugs in MX,probably. Proof that the top guy and his trainer are involved in PEDs,nope.