Man crashes car, goes for help, cops shoot him dead

APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/17/2013 4:01pm
9/17/2013 4:01pm
Nerd wrote:
It's pretty sobering. And sad.
APLMAN99 wrote:
It would be sobering if it actually cited facts. As is, it's an op-ed that seems to shy away from citing anything of real substance......
7I3N wrote:
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns...
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns with your own experiences and observations, then it’s true. The author’s “facts” align perfectly with my own. If yours don’t, then for you, what he says won’t ring true to you. But if that's the case, you should probably get out more often…
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself.

You've just displayed why it is so hard for so many people to actually learn anything. For so many, if facts don't line up with their anecdotal experience, then the facts must be wrong. They'd rather continue to wallow in ignorance.......
Nerd
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Nerd 9/17/2013 6:33pm
9/17/2013 6:33pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
It would be sobering if it actually cited facts. As is, it's an op-ed that seems to shy away from citing anything of real substance......
7I3N wrote:
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns...
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns with your own experiences and observations, then it’s true. The author’s “facts” align perfectly with my own. If yours don’t, then for you, what he says won’t ring true to you. But if that's the case, you should probably get out more often…
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself. You've just displayed why it is so hard for so...
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself.

You've just displayed why it is so hard for so many people to actually learn anything. For so many, if facts don't line up with their anecdotal experience, then the facts must be wrong. They'd rather continue to wallow in ignorance.......
You're correct in your analysis here.

Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are no statistics kept for - nor could they be accurate even if they were - police brutality. You can find instances of police brutality that make the news, or where the cop was reprimanded, but those likely represent a very, very small slice of the actual "police brutality" pie.

But even you have to acknowledge that even the instances we know about represent a number that should be considered way, way too often for an "officer of the peace" and representative of the government to be unlawfully harming the people in this country, right?
7I3N
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7I3N 9/17/2013 7:17pm
9/17/2013 7:17pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
It would be sobering if it actually cited facts. As is, it's an op-ed that seems to shy away from citing anything of real substance......
7I3N wrote:
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns...
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns with your own experiences and observations, then it’s true. The author’s “facts” align perfectly with my own. If yours don’t, then for you, what he says won’t ring true to you. But if that's the case, you should probably get out more often…
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself. You've just displayed why it is so hard for so...
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself.

You've just displayed why it is so hard for so many people to actually learn anything. For so many, if facts don't line up with their anecdotal experience, then the facts must be wrong. They'd rather continue to wallow in ignorance.......
So let me see if I can follow along with your convoluted version of reality. Basing your opinions on your own personal experiences and observations is not thinking for yourself and learning only happens by obtaining facts from someone else? Sounds like you’re advocating giving an awful lot of power to whoever supplies those “facts.” Good luck with that.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/17/2013 7:29pm
9/17/2013 7:29pm
7I3N wrote:
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns...
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns with your own experiences and observations, then it’s true. The author’s “facts” align perfectly with my own. If yours don’t, then for you, what he says won’t ring true to you. But if that's the case, you should probably get out more often…
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself. You've just displayed why it is so hard for so...
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself.

You've just displayed why it is so hard for so many people to actually learn anything. For so many, if facts don't line up with their anecdotal experience, then the facts must be wrong. They'd rather continue to wallow in ignorance.......
7I3N wrote:
So let me see if I can follow along with your convoluted version of reality. Basing your opinions on your own personal experiences and observations is...
So let me see if I can follow along with your convoluted version of reality. Basing your opinions on your own personal experiences and observations is not thinking for yourself and learning only happens by obtaining facts from someone else? Sounds like you’re advocating giving an awful lot of power to whoever supplies those “facts.” Good luck with that.
You're showing the confirmation bias that pollutes most of our thinking, even when we try to overcome it. The big thing is, though, that while a smart person will at least attempt to override it, you're embracing it as preferred to looking at things with an objective mind.

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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/17/2013 7:36pm
9/17/2013 7:36pm
7I3N wrote:
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns...
The main “facts” that anyone has to use when evaluating a piece of information is their own personal life experiences and observations. If the information aligns with your own experiences and observations, then it’s true. The author’s “facts” align perfectly with my own. If yours don’t, then for you, what he says won’t ring true to you. But if that's the case, you should probably get out more often…
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself. You've just displayed why it is so hard for so...
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself.

You've just displayed why it is so hard for so many people to actually learn anything. For so many, if facts don't line up with their anecdotal experience, then the facts must be wrong. They'd rather continue to wallow in ignorance.......
Nerd wrote:
You're correct in your analysis here. Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are no statistics kept for - nor could they be accurate even if they...
You're correct in your analysis here.

Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are no statistics kept for - nor could they be accurate even if they were - police brutality. You can find instances of police brutality that make the news, or where the cop was reprimanded, but those likely represent a very, very small slice of the actual "police brutality" pie.

But even you have to acknowledge that even the instances we know about represent a number that should be considered way, way too often for an "officer of the peace" and representative of the government to be unlawfully harming the people in this country, right?
I don't know what percentage of the pie that the incidents we hear about represents. I do know that in the absence of proper data, your own bias draws you to the conclusion you have reached.

Personally I think that any deliberate attempt to infringe upon a citizen's rights is one incident too many, but where we differ is that I don't let the exceptions decide the rule when it comes to all law enforcement officers. I believe that the reason we are reading about things like this case is because it is the exception, not the rule and it certainly doesn't reflect the work and values of every other officer. Or even a majority.
Nerd
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Nerd 9/17/2013 7:43pm
9/17/2013 7:43pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself. You've just displayed why it is so hard for so...
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself.

You've just displayed why it is so hard for so many people to actually learn anything. For so many, if facts don't line up with their anecdotal experience, then the facts must be wrong. They'd rather continue to wallow in ignorance.......
Nerd wrote:
You're correct in your analysis here. Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are no statistics kept for - nor could they be accurate even if they...
You're correct in your analysis here.

Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are no statistics kept for - nor could they be accurate even if they were - police brutality. You can find instances of police brutality that make the news, or where the cop was reprimanded, but those likely represent a very, very small slice of the actual "police brutality" pie.

But even you have to acknowledge that even the instances we know about represent a number that should be considered way, way too often for an "officer of the peace" and representative of the government to be unlawfully harming the people in this country, right?
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don't know what percentage of the pie that the incidents we hear about represents. I do know that in the absence of proper data, your...
I don't know what percentage of the pie that the incidents we hear about represents. I do know that in the absence of proper data, your own bias draws you to the conclusion you have reached.

Personally I think that any deliberate attempt to infringe upon a citizen's rights is one incident too many, but where we differ is that I don't let the exceptions decide the rule when it comes to all law enforcement officers. I believe that the reason we are reading about things like this case is because it is the exception, not the rule and it certainly doesn't reflect the work and values of every other officer. Or even a majority.
I think your conclusion about the size of the pie, and why we hear about these things is a reflection of your own "anecdotal experience" and you just did the same thing you accused the other guy of doing.
7I3N
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7I3N 9/17/2013 7:51pm
9/17/2013 7:51pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself. You've just displayed why it is so hard for so...
I think you've just shown exactly what is wrong with people who can't think, like yourself.

You've just displayed why it is so hard for so many people to actually learn anything. For so many, if facts don't line up with their anecdotal experience, then the facts must be wrong. They'd rather continue to wallow in ignorance.......
7I3N wrote:
So let me see if I can follow along with your convoluted version of reality. Basing your opinions on your own personal experiences and observations is...
So let me see if I can follow along with your convoluted version of reality. Basing your opinions on your own personal experiences and observations is not thinking for yourself and learning only happens by obtaining facts from someone else? Sounds like you’re advocating giving an awful lot of power to whoever supplies those “facts.” Good luck with that.
APLMAN99 wrote:
You're showing the confirmation bias that pollutes most of our thinking, even when we try to overcome it. The big thing is, though, that while a...
You're showing the confirmation bias that pollutes most of our thinking, even when we try to overcome it. The big thing is, though, that while a smart person will at least attempt to override it, you're embracing it as preferred to looking at things with an objective mind.
That would be an interesting hypothesis if it actually cited facts. As is, it’s only self-righteous bloviation that seems to shy away from citing anything of real substance……
7I3N
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7I3N 9/17/2013 8:32pm
9/17/2013 8:32pm
I know you believe you understand what you think I said. But I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. Wink
Nerd
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Nerd 9/17/2013 10:47pm
9/17/2013 10:47pm
That's your opinion.

Here in reality, opinions can be facts. I have the opinion that the Theory of Evolution is true. It's also fact.
Nerd
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Nerd 9/17/2013 11:06pm
9/17/2013 11:06pm
Which part?

The theory of evolution has been proven at every level, including the mapping of human and other animal and plant genomes, fossil records, and on and on and on.

As for opinions being factual, I just did.
Nerd
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Nerd 9/17/2013 11:15pm
9/17/2013 11:15pm
No shit.
seven11
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seven11 9/17/2013 11:17pm
9/17/2013 11:17pm
This is a sad story. I hope there is more to it than the article states.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/18/2013 6:23am
9/18/2013 6:23am
Nerd wrote:
You're correct in your analysis here. Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are no statistics kept for - nor could they be accurate even if they...
You're correct in your analysis here.

Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are no statistics kept for - nor could they be accurate even if they were - police brutality. You can find instances of police brutality that make the news, or where the cop was reprimanded, but those likely represent a very, very small slice of the actual "police brutality" pie.

But even you have to acknowledge that even the instances we know about represent a number that should be considered way, way too often for an "officer of the peace" and representative of the government to be unlawfully harming the people in this country, right?
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don't know what percentage of the pie that the incidents we hear about represents. I do know that in the absence of proper data, your...
I don't know what percentage of the pie that the incidents we hear about represents. I do know that in the absence of proper data, your own bias draws you to the conclusion you have reached.

Personally I think that any deliberate attempt to infringe upon a citizen's rights is one incident too many, but where we differ is that I don't let the exceptions decide the rule when it comes to all law enforcement officers. I believe that the reason we are reading about things like this case is because it is the exception, not the rule and it certainly doesn't reflect the work and values of every other officer. Or even a majority.
Nerd wrote:
I think your conclusion about the size of the pie, and why we hear about these things is a reflection of your own "anecdotal experience" and...
I think your conclusion about the size of the pie, and why we hear about these things is a reflection of your own "anecdotal experience" and you just did the same thing you accused the other guy of doing.
You'd have a good point if I were of the belief that all cops are absolutely perfect and then posted an op-ed where the author stated his same opinion to try to support that belief. Neither of those things apply, however.

I do, however, struggle to minimize the confirmation bias that we all suffer from at one time or another.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/18/2013 6:25am
9/18/2013 6:25am
7I3N wrote:
So let me see if I can follow along with your convoluted version of reality. Basing your opinions on your own personal experiences and observations is...
So let me see if I can follow along with your convoluted version of reality. Basing your opinions on your own personal experiences and observations is not thinking for yourself and learning only happens by obtaining facts from someone else? Sounds like you’re advocating giving an awful lot of power to whoever supplies those “facts.” Good luck with that.
APLMAN99 wrote:
You're showing the confirmation bias that pollutes most of our thinking, even when we try to overcome it. The big thing is, though, that while a...
You're showing the confirmation bias that pollutes most of our thinking, even when we try to overcome it. The big thing is, though, that while a smart person will at least attempt to override it, you're embracing it as preferred to looking at things with an objective mind.
7I3N wrote:
That would be an interesting hypothesis if it actually cited facts. As is, it’s only self-righteous bloviation that seems to shy away from citing anything of...
That would be an interesting hypothesis if it actually cited facts. As is, it’s only self-righteous bloviation that seems to shy away from citing anything of real substance……
You just succinctly wrapped up that article you posted. I agree with your assessment of it above completely.
7I3N
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7I3N 9/18/2013 9:04am
9/18/2013 9:04am
APLMAN99 wrote:
You just succinctly wrapped up that article you posted. I agree with your assessment of it above completely.
What you just posted is really just “I know you are, but what am I?” using bigger words. That’s deep dude. LOL. It’s easy to tell when you’re using your own thoughts instead of someone else’s words from an op-ed piece you just read that played to your own confirmation bias. The difference in mentality and level of maturity is startlingly clear.

Seeing as you seem to enjoy diagnosing and labeling those you disagree with, let me return the favor. You appear to be someone that is deeply invested in the authoritarian structure of society in its current state; someone who embraces the status quo and follows orders from about, without questioning them, and delegates them to those below without examination. Your inability to process new information that challenges your current positions and alter those positions in response is commonly referred to as cognitive dissonance. The main trait needed to overcome this is courage.

Much of the information that I have received in the last couple of years that confirms for me the information presented in the op-ed I posted has come from friends I have that are police officers. One, in fact, left the force last year after 20 years for some of the exact reasons listed in the article. Would you like his number so you can call him and tell him he’s just not smart enough to deal with his confirmation bias?

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