Observation's....Dungey's KTM

activeMX
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7/11/2013 10:31am
GrapeApe wrote:
Okay, but what does any of that have to do with a total loss electrical system?
Wow, you really don't get it.
GrapeApe
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7/11/2013 10:37am
GrapeApe wrote:
Okay, but what does any of that have to do with a total loss electrical system?
activeMX wrote:
Wow, you really don't get it.
I'll admit to that when you admit your random attack on Matthes' observation was off-base and made you look like a fool.
IWreckALot
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7/11/2013 10:40am
GrapeApe wrote:
Okay, but what does any of that have to do with a total loss electrical system?
activeMX wrote:
Wow, you really don't get it.
Can you explain a total loss system. I haven't heard of a total loss system. Is it, if one component of the electrical fails, the whole electrical system fails?

GrapeApe, if my guess is right and a relay fails or is shorting out, the bike would not be able to start. If the push back to the pits, or the mechanic jacking around under the seat bumped something back to where it's making contact, the electrical system would work. So activeMX may be on to something.

I don't think the battery was drained. I think that was what RD was hoping for but I don't think it was the case. If it was, they wouldn't have been able to start it in the pits without changing the battery.

Lastly, I'm happy to have KTM investing into this sport. So whoever blasted KTM's as having faulty machines can go FY. Only one way to get to the top and that is to start from scratch. KTM will have more championships to come. It takes time and work to get there. Short sighted people don't see that.
FreshTopEnd
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7/11/2013 10:51am
IWreckALot wrote:
Can you explain a total loss system. I haven't heard of a total loss system. Is it, if one component of the electrical fails, the whole...
Can you explain a total loss system. I haven't heard of a total loss system. Is it, if one component of the electrical fails, the whole electrical system fails?

GrapeApe, if my guess is right and a relay fails or is shorting out, the bike would not be able to start. If the push back to the pits, or the mechanic jacking around under the seat bumped something back to where it's making contact, the electrical system would work. So activeMX may be on to something.

I don't think the battery was drained. I think that was what RD was hoping for but I don't think it was the case. If it was, they wouldn't have been able to start it in the pits without changing the battery.

Lastly, I'm happy to have KTM investing into this sport. So whoever blasted KTM's as having faulty machines can go FY. Only one way to get to the top and that is to start from scratch. KTM will have more championships to come. It takes time and work to get there. Short sighted people don't see that.
Old school true total loss systems fire spark off a battery that drains over time; the sense I get from this is that the battery that drives the starter on the works SXF is not on a charging system, but someone familer with the works KTM would have to confirm that.

It's certainly possible they had a loose wire, charging system or not; it's not an uncommon thing on the estart bikes. But generally you get nothing when you hit the button. I can't tell from the video whether he blew through the battery spinning a bike that wouldn't fire, or he was getting nothing when hitting the button.

The Shop

GrapeApe
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7/11/2013 11:03am Edited Date/Time 7/11/2013 11:07am
GrapeApe wrote:
Okay, but what does any of that have to do with a total loss electrical system?
activeMX wrote:
Wow, you really don't get it.
IWreckALot wrote:
Can you explain a total loss system. I haven't heard of a total loss system. Is it, if one component of the electrical fails, the whole...
Can you explain a total loss system. I haven't heard of a total loss system. Is it, if one component of the electrical fails, the whole electrical system fails?

GrapeApe, if my guess is right and a relay fails or is shorting out, the bike would not be able to start. If the push back to the pits, or the mechanic jacking around under the seat bumped something back to where it's making contact, the electrical system would work. So activeMX may be on to something.

I don't think the battery was drained. I think that was what RD was hoping for but I don't think it was the case. If it was, they wouldn't have been able to start it in the pits without changing the battery.

Lastly, I'm happy to have KTM investing into this sport. So whoever blasted KTM's as having faulty machines can go FY. Only one way to get to the top and that is to start from scratch. KTM will have more championships to come. It takes time and work to get there. Short sighted people don't see that.
My question to activeMX was rhetorical. If there is a short or relay failure, as he proposed, it doesn't matter if it is a total loss system or something else.
activeMX
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7/11/2013 11:12am
GrapeApe wrote:
I'll admit to that when you admit your random attack on Matthes' observation was off-base and made you look like a fool.
Then I guess we're at a draw because I won't admit to that.

My OP had a basis in my belief if you're going to report "Observations" about something you might want to find out much more than he really did before reporting and giving some people the impression KTM electric start doesn't work when it needs to.

To be blunt, it's silly to me in this day and age to mention RD flooding his bike when the injectors won't spray fuel unless they are powered by something. A bad relay, lose wire or too low a battery will prevent that. There's no AP diaphragm that helps spray fuel like a carb had.
philG
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7/11/2013 11:18am
activeMX wrote:
I like how Matthes "investigated" whether or not an EFI motor can be flooded but didn't learn or have the knowledge already that Dungey's bike operates...
I like how Matthes "investigated" whether or not an EFI motor can be flooded but didn't learn or have the knowledge already that Dungey's bike operates with a "total loss" electrical system. Much more likely there was an issue with the battery being drained while attempting to restart then simply being flooded. This isn't at all the same system that comes on a production KTM.
dkg wrote:
Is the benefit of the total loss system worth the weight saving? Read some place too that it has some minor effect on RPM response time...
Is the benefit of the total loss system worth the weight saving? Read some place too that it has some minor effect on RPM response time. Am I getting this right?
running total loss makes a HUGE difference, the weight loss alone is not the gain , its the throttle response you gain from losing the magnetic drag , and the rotatotional mass.... on a supermoto bike its instantly noticeable, bike would run 28 mins if you started her off a slave , and go maybe 3 or 4 times off the button.
Grieby54
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7/11/2013 11:21am
activeMX wrote:
Then I guess we're at a draw because I won't admit to that. My OP had a basis in my belief if you're going to report...
Then I guess we're at a draw because I won't admit to that.

My OP had a basis in my belief if you're going to report "Observations" about something you might want to find out much more than he really did before reporting and giving some people the impression KTM electric start doesn't work when it needs to.

To be blunt, it's silly to me in this day and age to mention RD flooding his bike when the injectors won't spray fuel unless they are powered by something. A bad relay, lose wire or too low a battery will prevent that. There's no AP diaphragm that helps spray fuel like a carb had.
To be blunt, you're a dick.
IWreckALot
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7/11/2013 11:23am
activeMX wrote:
Wow, you really don't get it.
IWreckALot wrote:
Can you explain a total loss system. I haven't heard of a total loss system. Is it, if one component of the electrical fails, the whole...
Can you explain a total loss system. I haven't heard of a total loss system. Is it, if one component of the electrical fails, the whole electrical system fails?

GrapeApe, if my guess is right and a relay fails or is shorting out, the bike would not be able to start. If the push back to the pits, or the mechanic jacking around under the seat bumped something back to where it's making contact, the electrical system would work. So activeMX may be on to something.

I don't think the battery was drained. I think that was what RD was hoping for but I don't think it was the case. If it was, they wouldn't have been able to start it in the pits without changing the battery.

Lastly, I'm happy to have KTM investing into this sport. So whoever blasted KTM's as having faulty machines can go FY. Only one way to get to the top and that is to start from scratch. KTM will have more championships to come. It takes time and work to get there. Short sighted people don't see that.
GrapeApe wrote:
My question to activeMX was rhetorical. If there is a short or relay failure, as he proposed, it doesn't matter if it is a total loss...
My question to activeMX was rhetorical. If there is a short or relay failure, as he proposed, it doesn't matter if it is a total loss system or something else.
I see what you're getting at. Sorry I didn't read the entire thread but thanks for the explanations.

I'm not educated enough to weight in an an EFI flooded engine so I'll humbly bow out of this thread at this point.
activeMX
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7/11/2013 11:36am
Grieby54 wrote:
To be blunt, you're a dick.
And your point is???
activeMX
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7/11/2013 11:45am Edited Date/Time 7/11/2013 11:49am
GrapeApe wrote:
My question to activeMX was rhetorical. If there is a short or relay failure, as he proposed, it doesn't matter if it is a total loss...
My question to activeMX was rhetorical. If there is a short or relay failure, as he proposed, it doesn't matter if it is a total loss system or something else.
Your question wasn't actually rhetorical. A rhetorical question is asked more to produce an effect than to summon an answer.

The question you posed was to elicit an answer on why I brought up the total loss system.....or was it? (this is a rhetorical question)
7/11/2013 11:58am
I have a 350 ktm and unless the battery has 8v or more the fi system won't run at all you can't even bump it was it hot because doesn't heat or cold drain battery's significantly
GrapeApe
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7/11/2013 12:51pm
activeMX wrote:
Your question wasn't actually rhetorical. A rhetorical question is asked more to produce an effect than to summon an answer. The question you posed was to...
Your question wasn't actually rhetorical. A rhetorical question is asked more to produce an effect than to summon an answer.

The question you posed was to elicit an answer on why I brought up the total loss system.....or was it? (this is a rhetorical question)
It was rhetorical. I didn't need or want you to answer.
activeMX
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7/11/2013 1:11pm
GrapeApe wrote:
It was rhetorical. I didn't need or want you to answer.
That's not what makes a question rhetorical.

If you didn't want an answer you shouldn't have posted the question.

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