Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman

whyZ
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whyZ 6/28/2013 1:13pm
6/28/2013 1:13pm
I was always under the impression that the HOA board hired or asked Zimmerman to patrol the complex due to a rash of burglaries, with the description of the suspects as being young black males. And that was the reason for following Martin.

Also, FastEddy thanks for the unbiased break down of the court proceedings.
Crash82
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Crash82 6/28/2013 1:18pm
6/28/2013 1:18pm
You come up to me somewhere and start quizzing me about anything, and my first reaction is going to be, Who the fuck are you? I don't care where I am.

LOL! You a regular billy bob bad ass then brah!
FastEddy
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FastEddy 6/28/2013 1:47pm
6/28/2013 1:47pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2013 1:56pm
Zimmerman told the nurse he was training in MMA or going to some MMA gym 3 days a week or some shit like that.
Guess it wasn't working out to well for him if he got his ass beat by a 17 year old.
I wonder if the defense will spin that - like it will play into the sucker punch ordeal.
He caught me off guard - I had no chance....you have proof I was training.
Or some shit like that.
Or maybe the gym will say he wasn't there to train to fight,only to exercise.

LOL - they also said he had a soar ass - they gave him meds for it.
Not sure why that was important.
VET74
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VET74 6/28/2013 2:22pm
6/28/2013 2:22pm
It's a free country, he can ask whatever he wants...Wink If I see someone that looks suspicious and out of place in my neighborhood, you can bet your paycheck I'll say something to them. If they want to be confrontational, then I'll call the cops.
Police can't be everywhere, and I'll bet a high percentage of the time concerned citizens help, not hinder police work.

The Shop

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VET74
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VET74 6/28/2013 2:33pm
6/28/2013 2:33pm
Nice try! Wink
Crash82
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Crash82 6/28/2013 2:39pm
6/28/2013 2:39pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2013 2:40pm
VET74 wrote:
Nice try! Wink
Woot
SlingShot
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SlingShot 6/28/2013 3:30pm
6/28/2013 3:30pm
whyZ wrote:
I was always under the impression that the HOA board hired or asked Zimmerman to patrol the complex due to a rash of burglaries, with the...
I was always under the impression that the HOA board hired or asked Zimmerman to patrol the complex due to a rash of burglaries, with the description of the suspects as being young black males. And that was the reason for following Martin.

Also, FastEddy thanks for the unbiased break down of the court proceedings.
Unbiased?
Haha. Right.
Crash82
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Crash82 6/28/2013 3:38pm
6/28/2013 3:38pm
What you tryi'n to ax me SIR?
FastEddy
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FastEddy 6/28/2013 4:06pm
6/28/2013 4:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2013 4:28pm
whyZ wrote:
I was always under the impression that the HOA board hired or asked Zimmerman to patrol the complex due to a rash of burglaries, with the...
I was always under the impression that the HOA board hired or asked Zimmerman to patrol the complex due to a rash of burglaries, with the description of the suspects as being young black males. And that was the reason for following Martin.

Also, FastEddy thanks for the unbiased break down of the court proceedings.
SlingShot wrote:
Unbiased?
Haha. Right.
You're not very bright are you?

I haven't said whether he is guilty or innocent.
I'll wait to hear all the evidence.
However,he is presumed innocent unless the State proves he is guilty.
I'll pick evidence & testimony that I feel is important and comment on it just as anyone else would.
I'll weigh it all out when it's over - then decide.

Morally I have mixed feelings.
It's sad a 17 year old kid had to die.
But at the same that doesn't mean someone cannot defend themselves with a lethal weapon (knife,gun,sword,ect..)
to stop great bodily harm being done to them.So I'll weigh that out with the evidence being presented also.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 6/28/2013 4:43pm
6/28/2013 4:43pm
FastEddy wrote:
"[i]He made two turns while following Trayvon in his truck, then parked in front of a bank or something like that. I got this from a...
"He made two turns while following Trayvon in his truck, then parked in front of a bank or something like that. I got this from a dramatization, not any testimony, so I'm working off assumptions, but that's pretty significant effort to follow someone that is not violating any laws. None, that's the part I'm struggling with the most I think. Trayvon was doing nothing wrong, but Zimmers found that suspicious?"

This wasn't on public property...a lot do not understand that.
It was in a private gated community.
In Florida we have lots of gated communities to reduce crime and keep people out - I personally live in one.
If you see someone out of the ordinary - you call the Police and watch them...just as you would if someone you didn't know was in your fenced back yard - that is how the neighbors act.You can try to place them under citizens arrest also just as if they were in your backyard - not recommended but neighbors have and do it all the time.It's a crime to be in a gated community if you do not live there - trespassing.If you are walking on your own you need to be with someone who lives there that has ID or a lease to prove it. A cop can put you in cuffs if you do not have a note from someone who lives in the community and detain you until you prove other wise.If you cant prove it - you go to jail.



"
Someone has suggested he was on psych meds and under a docs care at the time too. I'm not much of a firearms law expert, but I do believe the law prohibits possession of a firearm by people on psych meds? Was unaware he had a violent past either, that seems significant as well."

We have no State law that says what you're saying - but were working on it.

If this was a federal case - on a 4473 it asks these 2 questions in regards to meds and mental stuff.

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to,marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? (if you answer YES - no gun for you)

Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective
(which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful
authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs)
OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (if you answer YES - no gun for you)


Just being on meds & going to a shrink doesnt mean shit.
In fact I bet many police & soldiers are that carry weapons daily.
So if a neighbor from the other side of the development doesn't know and recognize my 12yo, even though we are residents of the development, he can place him under citizens arrest and physically detain him if he doesn't have identification on him at that moment? Really?
FastEddy
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FastEddy 6/28/2013 5:07pm
6/28/2013 5:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2013 6:18pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
So if a neighbor from the other side of the development doesn't know and recognize my 12yo, even though we are residents of the development, he...
So if a neighbor from the other side of the development doesn't know and recognize my 12yo, even though we are residents of the development, he can place him under citizens arrest and physically detain him if he doesn't have identification on him at that moment? Really?
He/She can ask him or her where they live and if they are supposed to be in the area.
The 12 year old can say I live here ,my parents are blah blah blah ect...if they have nothing to hide.
If they feel that they shouldn't be there and they don't live there they will detain them sometimes.
Usually they warn younger kids to leave if they don't live in here.
Younger Kids often try to sneak in and fish off the sea wall where I live.
People usually call the police & then hold them for police though if they've been chased away before.
Then they get arrested for trespassing.
It's actually taken very serious down here and enforced.
But most people know each other for the most part where I live.
It's also waterfront & very nice and there is a liability with kids and the sea walls on our property...
That's why it's important to enforce the trespassing.
If a kid fell off and got hurt or drowned or something ect..




I even get my Washington State fix down here.


Lots of snakes also - near the water.
So unsupervised kids & venomous snakes do not mix well. Smile

Around my pool area.


Near my dock....
These Eastern Diamondbacks are neat snakes I don't mind them around.
That little black snake is more aggressive then this one is.
borg
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borg 6/28/2013 5:19pm
6/28/2013 5:19pm
Another weak day for the prosecution. Isn't this the part of the trial where they make the defendant look guilty? They just keep calling witnesses that confirm Zim's original story.

I'm beginning to think that the DA is not serious about this case. He's going through the motions because of public pressure or something.
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FastEddy 6/28/2013 5:59pm
6/28/2013 5:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2013 6:00pm
borg wrote:
Another weak day for the prosecution. Isn't this the part of the trial where they make the defendant look guilty? They just keep calling witnesses that...
Another weak day for the prosecution. Isn't this the part of the trial where they make the defendant look guilty? They just keep calling witnesses that confirm Zim's original story.

I'm beginning to think that the DA is not serious about this case. He's going through the motions because of public pressure or something.
They have to tell the whole story.
If they hide key witnesses the defense will just call them and that would be far worse in closing.
I want to hear from the lead investigator,the parents and also hear the defenses full story.
Maybe 1 week left for the prosecution and then the defense will bust theirs out in a week is what I'm thinking.
Even when this goes to the jury for a verdict - there is no telling what they'll decide.
I would love to see the verdict form before hand.
gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 6/28/2013 6:31pm
6/28/2013 6:31pm
I have gone back and forth on this case a few times, but it just seems to me Zimmerman should not have gotten out of his car or followed Treyvon once he called 911, and especially after the operator told him he didn't need him to do that. He didn't see Treyvon committing any crime, and by approaching anyone in that situation you are asking for trouble if you are not a cop.
borg
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borg 6/28/2013 6:55pm
6/28/2013 6:55pm
borg wrote:
Another weak day for the prosecution. Isn't this the part of the trial where they make the defendant look guilty? They just keep calling witnesses that...
Another weak day for the prosecution. Isn't this the part of the trial where they make the defendant look guilty? They just keep calling witnesses that confirm Zim's original story.

I'm beginning to think that the DA is not serious about this case. He's going through the motions because of public pressure or something.
FastEddy wrote:
They have to tell the whole story. If they hide key witnesses the defense will just call them and that would be far worse in closing...
They have to tell the whole story.
If they hide key witnesses the defense will just call them and that would be far worse in closing.
I want to hear from the lead investigator,the parents and also hear the defenses full story.
Maybe 1 week left for the prosecution and then the defense will bust theirs out in a week is what I'm thinking.
Even when this goes to the jury for a verdict - there is no telling what they'll decide.
I would love to see the verdict form before hand.
I cant see murder 2 now. Manslaughter is probably the worst he can expect . I don't know if they can give the jury that leeway though in Florida.

Zim seemed like a problem waiting to happen though. Seems like something like this would eventually happen with him playing cop. He ran into a hothead and the shit hit the fan.

I just wonder if he really needed to pull the trigger. Just the sight of the gun would stop a rational person. You just don't know how crazy it was at that moment though.

I'm catching some of the trial when I come home for lunch. It's addicting. I don't need that shit right now. I have a family returning from Mexico in 2 weeks expecting a whole new bathroom.
I gave up a serious portion of my productive life during the OJ trial.
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FastEddy 6/28/2013 7:13pm
6/28/2013 7:13pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2013 8:14pm
borg wrote:
I cant see murder 2 now. Manslaughter is probably the worst he can expect . I don't know if they can give the jury that leeway...
I cant see murder 2 now. Manslaughter is probably the worst he can expect . I don't know if they can give the jury that leeway though in Florida.

Zim seemed like a problem waiting to happen though. Seems like something like this would eventually happen with him playing cop. He ran into a hothead and the shit hit the fan.

I just wonder if he really needed to pull the trigger. Just the sight of the gun would stop a rational person. You just don't know how crazy it was at that moment though.

I'm catching some of the trial when I come home for lunch. It's addicting. I don't need that shit right now. I have a family returning from Mexico in 2 weeks expecting a whole new bathroom.
I gave up a serious portion of my productive life during the OJ trial.
Yeah,Murder 2 is going to be a hard sale.

You know when the dude was at the mail boxes acting strange - he probably could have just called 911 & pulled over that way and walked up to him.Been like... Hi I'm George nice to meet you, I live in here.This rain sucks huh? By the way,this is a private community,are you visiting someone or did you just move in here? We just gotta find out who people are that we don't recognize - we've had some crimes in here in the past.Nothing personal man just making sure your cool.
He didn't have to use those exact words but he could have did something like that or even hollered from his vehicle window.Rather then watch the dude in an odd way and let the dude know he was being watched. I've gone up to stranger people lol.
I don't know though - I guess he was trying to be so-called safe at first - big neighborhood watch.But obviously the way he did it got one guy killed & him in hot water.The whole deal is weird ,could've,should've,would've...the possibilities are endless of what he could have did different.But everyone is different and has different ways of doing things.
borg
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borg 6/28/2013 9:57pm
6/28/2013 9:57pm
It happened to me when I was looking for a neighbor's dog. Some guy saw me cruising the streets in his hood and he point blank asked me what was going on. I knew why he was concerned so I just told him about the dog. No problems. He went his way and I went mine.

Nobody knows why this deal got out of hand. Who was the first physical aggressor?
The only living participant claims it was Martin. The available evidence doesn't answer that question but it leans in Zim's favor since his face was beat up and Martin's knuckles were beat up.

Doesn't mean that Zim should be let off the hook though.
Crash82
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Crash82 6/29/2013 5:27am
6/29/2013 5:27am
See how that works OldFart, someone asks and you just tell them what's up. I think OldFart thinks it's still the 60's, peace and love, nope can't leave you bag of weed laying around anymore. This whole class of people that the left created thinks the world owes them and if you don't give them their free stuff they will take your stuff.

Pit Row

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TripleFive 6/30/2013 7:31pm
6/30/2013 7:31pm
borg wrote:
It happened to me when I was looking for a neighbor's dog. Some guy saw me cruising the streets in his hood and he point blank...
It happened to me when I was looking for a neighbor's dog. Some guy saw me cruising the streets in his hood and he point blank asked me what was going on. I knew why he was concerned so I just told him about the dog. No problems. He went his way and I went mine.

Nobody knows why this deal got out of hand. Who was the first physical aggressor?
The only living participant claims it was Martin. The available evidence doesn't answer that question but it leans in Zim's favor since his face was beat up and Martin's knuckles were beat up.

Doesn't mean that Zim should be let off the hook though.
And a witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman striking him MMA "ground and pound" style...
jmar
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jmar 6/30/2013 8:13pm
6/30/2013 8:13pm
borg wrote:
It happened to me when I was looking for a neighbor's dog. Some guy saw me cruising the streets in his hood and he point blank...
It happened to me when I was looking for a neighbor's dog. Some guy saw me cruising the streets in his hood and he point blank asked me what was going on. I knew why he was concerned so I just told him about the dog. No problems. He went his way and I went mine.

Nobody knows why this deal got out of hand. Who was the first physical aggressor?
The only living participant claims it was Martin. The available evidence doesn't answer that question but it leans in Zim's favor since his face was beat up and Martin's knuckles were beat up.

Doesn't mean that Zim should be let off the hook though.
TripleFive wrote:
And a witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman striking him MMA "ground and pound" style...
There were four witness total. Three others saw it different.

And George was proud that he was doing an MMA work out.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mmas-george-zimmerman-trial-213200603.html
kongols
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kongols 7/1/2013 12:37pm
7/1/2013 12:37pm
Eddy, you watching? What do you think?
FastEddy
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FastEddy 7/1/2013 1:13pm
7/1/2013 1:13pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 1:24pm
kongols wrote:
Eddy, you watching? What do you think?
It's pretty much the same tapes/interviews they've been playing on local news down here for a while now.
They're just playing them for the jury.
The investigator is good and raised some good questions - but didn't prove Murder 2.
Just outlined inconsistency.Zimmerman's going to say what he can to help himself - while being interviewed,anyone would (the jury knows that). Whether to believe him or not......it's tough (I'm sure the jury will have mixed feelings). Some things make sense and few others don't.
This is all the from the original investigation (that investigator didn't want to pursue murder 2 charges).
The only reason the investigator went farther is because he was pressured from the Governors office.
I do know the female investigator felt the State was over charging him from my understanding also.
Did you see how during the cross she was helping the defense in a sense?
Murder is going to be a hard conviction to get.
They should have charged him with manslaughter.
Basically showing negligence of him getting out of his car and following him.
But he also would have to had instigated and/or started the fight.
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kongols 7/1/2013 1:28pm
7/1/2013 1:28pm
When they met he still didn`t introduce himself but instead started backing away and went in to his pocket (if I understood correctly). He says he wanted to look for a street number when he got out of the car but from what I understood he ran behind the houses to the next street on which he himself lived. There is a lot of shit he`s not saying.
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FastEddy 7/1/2013 1:37pm
7/1/2013 1:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 1:42pm
kongols wrote:
When they met he still didn`t introduce himself but instead started backing away and went in to his pocket (if I understood correctly). He says he...
When they met he still didn`t introduce himself but instead started backing away and went in to his pocket (if I understood correctly). He says he wanted to look for a street number when he got out of the car but from what I understood he ran behind the houses to the next street on which he himself lived. There is a lot of shit he`s not saying.
I'm sorta iffy ....he probably didn't give the investigators an actual play by play of what really went down.
It's obvious he would leave something out.I say that because most people would.
Like if he said for instance... "Come here you fucking punk!" "Where did you go you fucking punk!" (anything like that).
And Trayvon said "whats your problem,homie" as a reply.
Then George reached for his phone and dude may have punched him like he said.
Or George replied your my fucking problem punk and then reached for his phone and then got hit.
Leaving out the "come here you fucking punk" would be smart on his (Georges) part.
Some witnesses say they heard a verbal altercation before the screaming help stuff started.
You know they had to have exchange words and George had to have said more.
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kongols 7/1/2013 1:41pm
7/1/2013 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 1:41pm
FastEddy wrote:
I'm sorta iffy ....he probably didn't give the investigators an actual play by play of what really went down. It's obvious he would leave something out.I...
I'm sorta iffy ....he probably didn't give the investigators an actual play by play of what really went down.
It's obvious he would leave something out.I say that because most people would.
Like if he said for instance... "Come here you fucking punk!" "Where did you go you fucking punk!" (anything like that).
And Trayvon said "whats your problem,homie" as a reply.
Then George reached for his phone and dude may have punched him like he said.
Or George replied your my fucking problem punk and then reached for his phone and then got hit.
Leaving out the "come here you fucking punk" would be smart on his (Georges) part.
Some witnesses say they heard a verbal altercation before the screaming help stuff started.
You know they had to have exchange words and George had to have said more.
Could it be that he was going for his gun and not the cellphone and TM saw it and decided to try and save his life? If he`s a thug Crash says he is he would somewhat know what happens after that? Well, we`ll never know cause he`s dead.
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kongols 7/1/2013 1:46pm
7/1/2013 1:46pm
Eddy, where was his gun at on his body? Was it under the jacket? Should jacket be open to reach the gun?
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FastEddy 7/1/2013 1:55pm
7/1/2013 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 1:56pm
kongols wrote:
Eddy, where was his gun at on his body? Was it under the jacket? Should jacket be open to reach the gun?
On his right hip,jacket lifted up.
It wasnt a shoulder type holster.

It was sorta like this one.


Not sure if he wore it on the inside of his pants or the outside though.
An example of a jacket with it worn on the inside of his pants.
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FastEddy 7/1/2013 1:58pm
7/1/2013 1:58pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 2:03pm
kongols wrote:
Could it be that he was going for his gun and not the cellphone and TM saw it and decided to try and save his life...
Could it be that he was going for his gun and not the cellphone and TM saw it and decided to try and save his life? If he`s a thug Crash says he is he would somewhat know what happens after that? Well, we`ll never know cause he`s dead.
Well the cops were already on their way and he knew it - because he called them himself.
I doubt he would have went for his gun at that time.
Knowing the cops were on their way and just pulling it and holding it on Trayvon could have got him shot by a cop walking up
from around the corner.The cops wouldn't know who was who until they separated them and talked to them.
A little description and it being dark when a cop comes up - their both suspects.

However being on the ground and pulling it with someone on him makes more sense with the cops coming.
He would look more vulnerable on the ground shouting for help.
Plus the cops wouldn't engage him like that.
Plus they would have heard him yelling for help - so that would help him.
But he could have baited him - I dont know.
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kongols 7/1/2013 2:00pm
7/1/2013 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 2:05pm
Sorry I`m totally clueless about guns but was at the time of the fight bullet already in a chamber? Is that how you walk around? Can you just draw it with one hand and pull the trigger right away? If I remember correctly he said he forgot that he was carrying.
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FastEddy 7/1/2013 2:08pm
7/1/2013 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 2:37pm
kongols wrote:
Sorry I`m totally clueless about guns but was at the time of the fight bullet already in a chamber? Is that how you walk around? Can...
Sorry I`m totally clueless about guns but was at the time of the fight bullet already in a chamber? Is that how you walk around? Can you just draw it with one hand and pull the trigger right away? If I remember correctly he said he forgot that he was carrying.
When I carry a gun I keep a round chambered - most folks do.
They teach you that when you take the State class to get your carry permit.
Without a round chambered it's useless,you have to pull & cock/charge it.
It can get you killed delaying / taking time to cock it.
I'm not sure about the safety on his Keltec.
But on most the handguns I own for concealed carry the safety looks like this.
It's a little lever on the trigger.
Most instructors suggest this type of safety.
Rather then one you have to manually flip at another area on a gun.

So on this one you can just pull it and squeeze the trigger.


That little Keltec he had was double action- no need to carry it with the safety on.
No external hammer.



If it was a single action like a 1911...with an external hammer.
I would suggest using the safety.
See how the hammer is back?
If it goes forward this gun will fire and you will shoot yourself in the foot or leg lol.
That little lever that is black is the safety and it blocks the hammer when in the safe position.

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