Should Bell have been allowed to race?

jhansen510 wrote:

The fact that they allowed him to get up is a joke. After a hit like that he could of had spinal damage. One false move...

The fact that they allowed him to get up is a joke. After a hit like that he could of had spinal damage. One false move and his career could be over. Unfortunately it's going to take a huge mistake before all you tough guys realize that we need to handle these big hits better. There's no way they can assess his spinal cord on the track enough to say ok zack get up. And just because he feels ok doesn't mean shit. My uncle had a broken neck for a month before falling and hurting it again and now he can't turn his head.... We need to be proactive not reactive. Has nothing to do with being tough. Unfortunately it's going to take a death in public to get there. And ah knuckle your an idiot. Laying there taking an inventory is one thing, but laying completely motionless is another....(kid didn't as much as flinch)

WhKnuckle wrote:

Repeating something that I posted earlier... If any of you guys are ever in a really off-the-charts brutal crash, the kind where everything goes into slow...

Repeating something that I posted earlier...

If any of you guys are ever in a really off-the-charts brutal crash, the kind where everything goes into slow motion and you are absolutely aware that you are going to die and that's all there is to it, and after it's all over you just lay there and slowly let yourself process the fact that you are still alive, you'll understand why Zach Bell looked like he did.

jhansen510 wrote:

The fact that they allowed him to get up is a joke. After a hit like that he could of had spinal damage. One false move...

The fact that they allowed him to get up is a joke. After a hit like that he could of had spinal damage. One false move and his career could be over. Unfortunately it's going to take a huge mistake before all you tough guys realize that we need to handle these big hits better. There's no way they can assess his spinal cord on the track enough to say ok zack get up. And just because he feels ok doesn't mean shit. My uncle had a broken neck for a month before falling and hurting it again and now he can't turn his head.... We need to be proactive not reactive. Has nothing to do with being tough. Unfortunately it's going to take a death in public to get there. And ah knuckle your an idiot. Laying there taking an inventory is one thing, but laying completely motionless is another....(kid didn't as much as flinch)

vanillaice782 wrote:

I said this before. If the doctor is at trackside and can assess him 15 seconds after it happened then there is no need for the...

I said this before. If the doctor is at trackside and can assess him 15 seconds after it happened then there is no need for the c collar*. If you're a paramedic you have to put a collar on someone in that case because a doctor is the only person with the knowledge, skill set, and big enough initials to determine whether or not it is broken. If his neck was broke you will know it the second you palpate** it because it hurts like a bitch. The doctor was there in seconds so there was no need for a collar. In your uncle's case it's not a doctors fault that he didn't get it checked out right after it happened. What would you have wanted them to do? Surgery? Neck surgery never goes well. How old was your uncle when he had a broken neck? I've seen a 80-something year old woman break her neck because she sneezed really hard. All I keep hearing from you is sob stories about how doctors screwed you over so you have this huge ax to grind against them. You need to get it out of your mind that doctors are the reason that your uncle's neck hurts. Getting old hurts. There is nothing a doctor can do for an old sore neck.

I know about concussions, I know what causes them and what they look like. He didn't have one. When you consider his mechanism of injury*** a concussion would be pretty obvious. He was going very fast when he hit the ground. If he had a concussion it would have an acute**** on set. If he would have been concussed it would have been a big one but he didn't because he was coherent and aware of his surroundings.

I know what a god damn concussion is. He didn't have one.

* C stands for cervical, as in cervical spine
**To examine or explore by touching
***the circumstance in which an injury occurs, for example, sudden deceleration, wounding by a projectile, or crushing by a heavy object.
****rapid onset

I figured I would spell out some of the words for you because you aren't getting it....Dumbgeon anyone?

vanillaice782 wrote:

I said this before. If the doctor is at trackside and can assess him 15 seconds after it happened then there is no need for the...

I said this before. If the doctor is at trackside and can assess him 15 seconds after it happened then there is no need for the c collar*. If you're a paramedic you have to put a collar on someone in that case because a doctor is the only person with the knowledge, skill set, and big enough initials to determine whether or not it is broken. If his neck was broke you will know it the second you palpate** it because it hurts like a bitch. The doctor was there in seconds so there was no need for a collar. In your uncle's case it's not a doctors fault that he didn't get it checked out right after it happened. What would you have wanted them to do? Surgery? Neck surgery never goes well. How old was your uncle when he had a broken neck? I've seen a 80-something year old woman break her neck because she sneezed really hard. All I keep hearing from you is sob stories about how doctors screwed you over so you have this huge ax to grind against them. You need to get it out of your mind that doctors are the reason that your uncle's neck hurts. Getting old hurts. There is nothing a doctor can do for an old sore neck.

I know about concussions, I know what causes them and what they look like. He didn't have one. When you consider his mechanism of injury*** a concussion would be pretty obvious. He was going very fast when he hit the ground. If he had a concussion it would have an acute**** on set. If he would have been concussed it would have been a big one but he didn't because he was coherent and aware of his surroundings.

I know what a god damn concussion is. He didn't have one.

* C stands for cervical, as in cervical spine
**To examine or explore by touching
***the circumstance in which an injury occurs, for example, sudden deceleration, wounding by a projectile, or crushing by a heavy object.
****rapid onset

I figured I would spell out some of the words for you because you aren't getting it....Dumbgeon anyone?

Choppy wrote:

Bodnar and crew felt it was safe for him to ride. The kid felt he was safe to ride. His team felt he was safe to...

Bodnar and crew felt it was safe for him to ride.
The kid felt he was safe to ride.
His team felt he was safe to ride.

But he was unsafe to ride because you saw him crash on TV?

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Choppy=Dr Bodnar?? Shouldn't have let a kid who was knocked out cold return to the race track and risk killing himself as he very well could...

Choppy=Dr Bodnar?? Shouldn't have let a kid who was knocked out cold return to the race track and risk killing himself as he very well could have with his second head plant.

Choppy wrote:

Where did you receive your MD degree?
Are you board certified in emergency medicine?

jhansen510 wrote:

It's called erring on the side of caution. My wife is an ER nurse and she agrees he should of been boarded and collared. How do...

It's called erring on the side of caution. My wife is an ER nurse and she agrees he should of been boarded and collared. How do they check his spinal cord with no scans? Just because it doesn't hurt during movement doesn't mean shit. You were an EMT she is a RN. She also deals with a lot of dumb dr's but no I have no grudge against them. You seem to think they are god and incapable of making mistakes. I think you need your head examined...

mooch wrote:

It's very telling that Bell hit the ground and then laid there TOTALLY MOTIONLESS in the exact same position that he came to rest in. I'm...

It's very telling that Bell hit the ground and then laid there TOTALLY MOTIONLESS in the exact same position that he came to rest in. I'm really surprised that anyone could think he was just laying there assessing himself. In my opinion, he was knocked out for a few moments which means he suffered a concussion.

If the medics determined he was not concussed, then in my opinion, the tests used to come to that conclusion are flawed.

The first time I knocked myself out was from getting cross rutted on a jump face. Even though I lost consciousness for several minutes, I remembered every detail about what lead up to the crash which contradicts the rationale that some of you have that because he remembered what caused the crash is a sign that he did not have a concussion. Another mindset that I had when I've knocked myself is one where I wanted to immediately get up and act as if everything was all good even though I knew that was not the case.

I'm all for respecting everyone's opinion, but based on what I saw and have experienced myself Bell lost consciousness and any test that showed he was not concussed is a flawed test.

vanillaice782 wrote:

How did they diagnose you even though you remembered everything? There is no magical concussion test beyond just asking questions and figuring out the mental state...

How did they diagnose you even though you remembered everything? There is no magical concussion test beyond just asking questions and figuring out the mental state of the person. In the video below at about the 3 minute mark they show Pastrana after he had a concussion. It's pretty obvious. That is how everyone acts after a concussion. I had a concussion one time and I acted like that for almost a week and don't remember any of it. IF THEY HAD NO INDICATION THAT HE HAD A CONCUSSION THEY HAD NO REASON TO KEEP HIM OFF THE TRACK. Just because you didn't see them assess him doesn't mean it didn't happen.

mooch wrote:

Ok for one thing...most folks don't have time to read through this long thread, much less watch an hour and half full length movie you post...

Ok for one thing...most folks don't have time to read through this long thread, much less watch an hour and half full length movie you post

I also believe you have the facts twisted around...you say that you can be knocked out for several minutes and not be concussed? I believe what you meant to say is that you can be concussed but not be knocked out. A primary symptom of a grade III concussion is the loss of consciousness.

Nice job of attempting to claim that I did not have a concussion simply because I could remember what caused the crash that lead to me being knocked out. You failed on that attempt to diagnosis what happeened to me as I was also vomiting in addition to being knocked out for several minutes. I also could not remember talking to people or even knowing they were at the event when I had talked to them earlier in the evening...yet I COULD remember what caused the crash. I also went to the ER (where I was vomiting) and was diagnosed with a grade III concussion. So much for your abilities to diagnose a concussion smart guy.

Hut wrote:

Here was last years opinions. The medics give a bit of detail on their actions regarding concussions.
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/You-think-Malcolm-had-a-c…

mooch wrote:

Ok for one thing...most folks don't have time to read through this long thread, much less watch an hour and half full length movie you post...

Ok for one thing...most folks don't have time to read through this long thread, much less watch an hour and half full length movie you post

I also believe you have the facts twisted around...you say that you can be knocked out for several minutes and not be concussed? I believe what you meant to say is that you can be concussed but not be knocked out. A primary symptom of a grade III concussion is the loss of consciousness.

Nice job of attempting to claim that I did not have a concussion simply because I could remember what caused the crash that lead to me being knocked out. You failed on that attempt to diagnosis what happeened to me as I was also vomiting in addition to being knocked out for several minutes. I also could not remember talking to people or even knowing they were at the event when I had talked to them earlier in the evening...yet I COULD remember what caused the crash. I also went to the ER (where I was vomiting) and was diagnosed with a grade III concussion. So much for your abilities to diagnose a concussion smart guy.

kardy wrote:

I can vouch for Mooch! He most certainly knows what it's like to get KTFO and act like everything is OK!

vanillaice782 wrote:

I didn't say that you didn't have a concussion. I asked you how the doctors determined that you had a concussion. That's what I said in...

I didn't say that you didn't have a concussion. I asked you how the doctors determined that you had a concussion. That's what I said in the first sentence of my reply. Like I said, there is no magical way of determining if someone had a concussion beyond asking questions. How am I supposed to diagnose you if you don't give me all the details until now? Of course vomiting is a sign of a concussion. It's a sign that zach didn't show BTW. Unless there is a missing barf bag somewhere?

jhansen510 wrote:

You are wrong. People have broken bones including necks and backs all the time and don't realize it. People get misdiagnosed every fucking day. Like I...

You are wrong. People have broken bones including necks and backs all the time and don't realize it. People get misdiagnosed every fucking day. Like I said its not always black and white. I completely agree that these guys make a living off of risk. But after a spectacular get off such as zack's. I think taking the night off should be mandatory. I hope I am wrong but you just said yourself the effects of the head blow may show up later. All the more reason that he had no business going back out. It's his first sx race. He has nothing to gain but everything to lose my friend. I just hope I'm wrong and the kid is ok.

vanillaice782 wrote:

Again though, when you consider his mechanism of injury you have to consider that if his neck would have taken the brunt of the landing it...

Again though, when you consider his mechanism of injury you have to consider that if his neck would have taken the brunt of the landing it would be blatantly obvious pain because he hit the ground at 60 miles an hour. His foot, knee, and hip all hit before his head hit the ground. If his neck would have snapped in that wreck he would have had an injury like Jantz and he wouldn't have been breathing.

mooch wrote:

Regarding no barfing for Zack, again, you demonstrate you're no expert on concussions.. My vomiting started about 2 hours after being knocked out. Were you following...

Regarding no barfing for Zack, again, you demonstrate you're no expert on concussions..

My vomiting started about 2 hours after being knocked out. Were you following Zack around last night to know what he was doing several hours after the event?

JaredPartridge wrote:

i'm not going to read thru 8 pages of this, but I was always under the impression that if a race is red flagged because of...

i'm not going to read thru 8 pages of this, but I was always under the impression that if a race is red flagged because of you, you weren't allowed to re-enter. If that wasn't a rule before, it should be now.

mooch wrote:

V782...tell me, just how long does someone need to lay TOTALLY motionless on the track after slamming their head on the ground while oncoming traffic continues...

V782...tell me, just how long does someone need to lay TOTALLY motionless on the track after slamming their head on the ground while oncoming traffic continues to go around theme before you accept the fact that they ARE knocked out?

Hut wrote:

I remember one time, a guy on a street bike got hit by a car and he had some bad injuries including a compound fracture of...

I remember one time, a guy on a street bike got hit by a car and he had some bad injuries including a compound fracture of his right leg, Bones sticking out of his shin. We went over and calmed him down and held him still while waiting for the ambulance. A lady come running over and forced herself into the situation calling out "I'm an RN!" and told him that he should lay still because he had "very serious injuries!" and his "leg was badly broken!". He went into shock immediately eyes rolled back lost color and vomited while laying on his back. His foot shrunk up to his shin with the bones protruding outside his skin. We rolled his head to the side so he could breath and raised his legs while waiting for the pros. moral of the story; so much for trusting a know it all nurse!