Its time for PED's testing to step up

Regis
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2/11/2013 6:05pm Edited Date/Time 2/11/2013 6:13pm
Its time for PED's testing to step up its game in AMA. With so many capable race winners this is not the same as the previous...
Its time for PED's testing to step up its game in AMA. With so many capable race winners this is not the same as the previous decade with mainly 2 dominent riders at any one time that could be scruitinised
Now more than ever we need to be pro-active in prevention rather than a future fallout and major disgraces to fix
AMA and FIM please jump on it now and keep our sport clean or clean up if needed
Husqerdo wrote:
You fucking idiot, PED's as you call them have no benefit to motocross, some athletes rehab maybe but that is a different topic all together. When...
You fucking idiot, PED's as you call them have no benefit to motocross, some athletes rehab maybe but that is a different topic all together. When it comes down to winning a SX race PEDS are not involved. Get a fricken life man, you have NO idea what you are talking about.
edit -

Never mind. I jumped the gun and didn't read the whole thread. Your comment is laughable.
2/11/2013 6:26pm
WeiserGuy wrote:
What ever happened to just being a fan, seriously. I really don't understand why so-called fans wanna be HATERS and attempt to tarnish this great sport...
What ever happened to just being a fan, seriously. I really don't understand why so-called fans wanna be HATERS and attempt to tarnish this great sport.

These guys risk their lives every time they throw a leg over a bike and bottomline is what makes the world go around $$$$.. With speeds faster than ever I say if it helps you, do it..

Why does this keep getting brought up.. It is what it is and don't drag people through mud you were never able to ride through..

On top of any PEDs these days I'd guess adderrall would likely be used in certain situations.
not trying to tarnish the sport, I am trying to say step up testing so the sport never gets in the situation cycling is now, letting sleeping dogs lie wont work. I am not insisting to improve testing to point fingers, I am suggesting bring in more stringent testing so the sport doesnt go that path. I see it as protecting the sport so it grows.
sharkey
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2/11/2013 6:48pm
ocscottie wrote:
and here is a pic Chad posted a little while ago, if you recall last year (see this thread: [url=http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/WADA-makes-their-first-appearance,1233163]WADA makes their first appearance...[/url] ) Chad...
and here is a pic Chad posted a little while ago, if you recall last year (see this thread: WADA makes their first appearance... ) Chad and RV got surprise visits from the WADA crew. This pic is telling Chad that he no longer has to let them know where he is at 24/7

...as far as what their (WADA) involvement is this year? i have no clue.

i think this is going to far.no one should have to deal with crap like this. who comes up with this crap
WeiserGuy
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2/11/2013 6:59pm Edited Date/Time 2/11/2013 7:02pm
TransMotoSport: Do cyclist risk their lives every time they get on a bicycle??


I just don't understand why you feel the need to call out those who chose to partake,, damn isn't like these guys are risking their lives' every time they get on the bike.. Their window the make good money at this is so small to begin with barring injuries alone.. If it helps them get through a sx main or mx national safer with less chance of fatigue resulting in a big crash,, then so be it..

The Shop

Outsider
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2/11/2013 7:51pm
not trying to tarnish the sport, I am trying to say step up testing so the sport never gets in the situation cycling is now, letting...
not trying to tarnish the sport, I am trying to say step up testing so the sport never gets in the situation cycling is now, letting sleeping dogs lie wont work. I am not insisting to improve testing to point fingers, I am suggesting bring in more stringent testing so the sport doesnt go that path. I see it as protecting the sport so it grows.
This ain't the TDF, this is a circus called supercross. Get real man, no one cares if guys in moto are using.
2/11/2013 8:06pm
Oh it happened alright,but I'm totally with you as to what scale,urine and breathalyzers are one thing,I don't know exactly what the memo said

It sucks to think there could be guys getting ahead using PEDs instead of the more traditional ak,oond moral way and for me I'd hate to think about my kid growing up in the sport and getting to a decent level,then tuning roundok,adipoœnd saying "when can I get on these PEDs?? I wanna go faster..
carson510
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2/11/2013 9:20pm
Wow. Husky, you brought out the gay calling people faggets in one of the first pages. This thread is a perfect example of why some of us are scared to post and have an opinion. Some drunk asshole is gonna bash my perspective; a forum is a place to discuss and share opinions and ideas. It becomes less than successful with persons attacking others with opinions that are different. I think you could dial it back (as I have read, you have attempted to do this, somewhat unsuccessfully) with the name calling and angry response.

I think PEDs can enhance performance for some. Others, may not need them due to a gift from God in physiological make up that lends toward performance, endurance, and muscle building. Those people are naturally skinny and go to the gym for four days and look like they suck steroids through a straw continuously. I hate those people. Some people are just gifted in this area (not me haha). I again will bring up the point of Davi and his kidney removal/problems, wouldn't PEDs hurt his already potentially fragile renal system again making him sick and unable to do what he is now? -I would really like an answer on this.

I respect both sides of the discussion regarding PEDs, and I believe JT$ is correct with the oxygen/blood flow assessment. A big thanks to JT$ for offering his insight. I have alot of respect for you bud; big fan here.

Katy Perry and dehner47's avatar made this thread bearable. Thanks.


Alright, flame away, haters.
2/11/2013 11:02pm
WeiserGuy wrote:
TransMotoSport: Do cyclist risk their lives every time they get on a bicycle?? I just don't understand why you feel the need to call out those...
TransMotoSport: Do cyclist risk their lives every time they get on a bicycle??


I just don't understand why you feel the need to call out those who chose to partake,, damn isn't like these guys are risking their lives' every time they get on the bike.. Their window the make good money at this is so small to begin with barring injuries alone.. If it helps them get through a sx main or mx national safer with less chance of fatigue resulting in a big crash,, then so be it..
Can you explain to me how mx guys risking lives is relevant to they should be allowed cheat?
Maybe I am miss understanding what you mean, but I 100% dont get it.
2/11/2013 11:06pm
Outsider wrote:
No. These guys are risking their bodies and their lives every time they line up. Why should anyone care if someone uses some hgh to help...
No.

These guys are risking their bodies and their lives every time they line up. Why should anyone care if someone uses some hgh to help recover or some cyp in the off season?
Bingo.
+3!!! I don't see the big deal either. What's the difference in PEDs and a factory works bike over a privateer bike?! That's an edge, that helps alot over a production bike with bolt ons... Put it in your body or your bike, there's always something out there to help athletes ride longer, harder and faster. But hey, these guys on these new bikes makes for better racing now a days. Bigger jumps, bigger whoops, faster pace, etc. If these guys want to use PEDs to help make them recover faster, be stronger, have more intensity, be able to ride the edge longer, than so be it. It's never a level playing field with factory bikes vs your 20th place guys bike, so we can't say that PEDs is making it unfair!
2/11/2013 11:07pm
Can you explain to me how mx guys risking lives is relevant to they should be allowed cheat? Maybe I am miss understanding what you mean...
Can you explain to me how mx guys risking lives is relevant to they should be allowed cheat?
Maybe I am miss understanding what you mean, but I 100% dont get it.
Can you explain why you consider it cheating?

Life is more important than adhering to a boundary created by man.
2/11/2013 11:11pm
To add to the Weiser guys reply. I feel I.V.,s should be legal to rehydrate between moto's at National outdoors. If the conditions are hot on race day, say above 95f.
2/11/2013 11:12pm
Can you explain to me how mx guys risking lives is relevant to they should be allowed cheat? Maybe I am miss understanding what you mean...
Can you explain to me how mx guys risking lives is relevant to they should be allowed cheat?
Maybe I am miss understanding what you mean, but I 100% dont get it.
Can you explain why you consider it cheating?

Life is more important than adhering to a boundary created by man.
because the rules of the sport say its cheating.
2/11/2013 11:30pm
because the rules of the sport say its cheating.
Sad
sorry bud LOL
Smile

Yer alright, I can live with the disappointment.

Here's a tip to the wise - If a guy wants to spearhead the making of an argument, he should know more than what he is fed. He should know the reason using a utensil and whether or not the food is spoiled.
2/12/2013 12:01am
because the rules of the sport say its cheating.
Sad
Is it in an AMA rule book somewhere? Or is it just morally cheating? Couldn't you say drinking a redbull before a race cheating? It's performance enhancing. NOxplode, etc... All that stuff enhances an athletes performance...
2/12/2013 12:21am
because the rules of the sport say its cheating.
Sad
Is it in an AMA rule book somewhere? Or is it just morally cheating? Couldn't you say drinking a redbull before a race cheating? It's performance...
Is it in an AMA rule book somewhere? Or is it just morally cheating? Couldn't you say drinking a redbull before a race cheating? It's performance enhancing. NOxplode, etc... All that stuff enhances an athletes performance...
1. Probably

2. Is it?

3. Yes
Regis
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2/12/2013 6:43am
To add to the Weiser guys reply. I feel I.V.,s should be legal to rehydrate between moto's at National outdoors. If the conditions are hot on...
To add to the Weiser guys reply. I feel I.V.,s should be legal to rehydrate between moto's at National outdoors. If the conditions are hot on race day, say above 95f.
then you seperate the "have's" from the "Have Nots" even more. Who is going to administer and give riders "I.V.'s? is it going to be up to the rider?

This rule is to keep a level playing field, not to hurt riders.
2/12/2013 7:22am
To add to the Weiser guys reply. I feel I.V.,s should be legal to rehydrate between moto's at National outdoors. If the conditions are hot on...
To add to the Weiser guys reply. I feel I.V.,s should be legal to rehydrate between moto's at National outdoors. If the conditions are hot on race day, say above 95f.
Regis wrote:
then you seperate the "have's" from the "Have Nots" even more. Who is going to administer and give riders "I.V.'s? is it going to be up...
then you seperate the "have's" from the "Have Nots" even more. Who is going to administer and give riders "I.V.'s? is it going to be up to the rider?

This rule is to keep a level playing field, not to hurt riders.
i have heard the arguement not.to legalise I.V's. Does it really cost that much?
Nicknku
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2/12/2013 8:17am
ocscottie wrote:
and here is a pic Chad posted a little while ago, if you recall last year (see this thread: [url=http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/WADA-makes-their-first-appearance,1233163]WADA makes their first appearance...[/url] ) Chad...
and here is a pic Chad posted a little while ago, if you recall last year (see this thread: WADA makes their first appearance... ) Chad and RV got surprise visits from the WADA crew. This pic is telling Chad that he no longer has to let them know where he is at 24/7

...as far as what their (WADA) involvement is this year? i have no clue.

If I'm not mistaken these were simply urine tests only correct? EPO use wouldn't even be able to be detected from this as well as a host of other PEDs.
FroDiddy
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2/12/2013 8:48am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2013 8:48am
WhKnuckle wrote:
I don't worry so much about elite guys using PEDs - they have good trainers and doctors to make sure they aren't hurting themselves. I worry...
I don't worry so much about elite guys using PEDs - they have good trainers and doctors to make sure they aren't hurting themselves. I worry about a 15 year old marginal Loretta's kid trying to get over the hump by getting shit in the alley behind the gym and doing serious damage to himself.

But they say that 10 foot fences just makes a market for 11 foot ladders, and that's the way PEDS testing goes. No matter what kind of testing you do, trainers will come up with ways to beat the tests. And with the preponderance of cycling trainers in MX, you can bet that the only guys who'll get caught are the ones who are self medicating. Nobody knows more about human chemical warfare than cycling trainers.

I have no confidence that a sanctioning body that can't test gasoline for tetra ethyl lead can test blood and urine for traces of HGH and deteriorated red cells. Yes, the rules should outlaw really egregious PEDs. But don't get your hopes up that we're going to clean up the sport. We won't.
Excellent response! That's the gist of it.

Testing cost big money too!
qtrracer
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2/12/2013 9:42am
I have a couple of observations:
1. If you don't think that the "Elite Guys" won't use ped's I have some names for you, Lance Armstrong, Jan Ullrich, Marco Pantani , Floyd Landis, Frank Schleck, Alberto Contador and thats just a few of the riders that have been caught in the last few years and all these guys were on the final podium in the TDF. Racing is racing, period, the best want to win and will do anything to keep winning.
2. The biggest reason to institute drug testing is to try and legitimize MX as a drug free sport TO POTENTIAL SPONSORS. You guys all talk about wanting to get the riders paid, well no one is gonna pay drugged up mx riders.
WeiserGuy
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2/12/2013 4:36pm
TransMotoSport I don't think we need to worry about a cycling debacle because not as much mainstream moneys available to us dirtscooter racers.. Also its a choice that not all top guys make, people like you just assume the worst. A scandal would crush this small delicate sport.

Can I ask you one thing since you're so persistant about this issue.. Does this effect you directly??
2/12/2013 5:00pm
WeiserGuy wrote:
TransMotoSport I don't think we need to worry about a cycling debacle because not as much mainstream moneys available to us dirtscooter racers.. Also its a...
TransMotoSport I don't think we need to worry about a cycling debacle because not as much mainstream moneys available to us dirtscooter racers.. Also its a choice that not all top guys make, people like you just assume the worst. A scandal would crush this small delicate sport.

Can I ask you one thing since you're so persistant about this issue.. Does this effect you directly??
fair comment about the size of the sport. If you read all my post I am basically stating prevention would be better than cure. Mx right or wrong (i dont know) is seen as a clean sport. my suggestion is to take a pro- active step so it stays this way. If there are cheats i dont want them caught. i would like them warned get you affairs in order as of 2014 we will improve testing. if you cheat you will be caught.
But as suggested by other posters, the problem is good testing is expensive and may not be cost effective.
what is our alternative? The writing is on the wall from the use of ped's in other pro sports. I would hate to see mx go that path
2/12/2013 5:23pm
Seriously guys we have a sport concerned about how much gains can be had by maximising the oxygen in you fuel. But dont seem to concerned about the gains from maximising the oxygen in a athletes blood?
If your a parent with children coming into the sport i know which one concerns me more
haydos25
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2/12/2013 5:30pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2013 5:31pm
Even if the sport was flush with cash, the problem is testing procedures for some of the things they are using arent even available yet. As they say 10 foot fences creates a market for 11 foot ladders. The drug makers are constantly one step ahead of the drug testers. This is proven by Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, A-Rod etc. etc. never actually testing positive.

The only answer is to retrospectively test samples years after they were taken, but then what do you do if a champ was found to have been on something illegal? you give the title to the second place rider, what about bonuses that were built into contracts etc etc. Nevermind the farcical scenario in the tour de france where every rider in a certain period were on the juice.

No easy answers here, i know the idea to outlaw them is the morally correct route to go, i just dont know how you can police it effectively when no other sport in the world has been able to.
Husqerdo
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2/12/2013 5:52pm
Its time for PED's testing to step up its game in AMA. With so many capable race winners this is not the same as the previous...
Its time for PED's testing to step up its game in AMA. With so many capable race winners this is not the same as the previous decade with mainly 2 dominent riders at any one time that could be scruitinised
Now more than ever we need to be pro-active in prevention rather than a future fallout and major disgraces to fix
AMA and FIM please jump on it now and keep our sport clean or clean up if needed
I will be honest here, I did some trash talking to put this whole PED's crap into the dumbgeon because that it where it belongs. Obviously that did not work, but I did find out how many on Vital belief this unsubstantiated misunderstood crap for what ever reason. So here it is continuing to go on and on and on.
The main problem I have is that you have no factual info, but you and many others make some connection between TDF riders and SX. That in itself is hilarious, Now when asked (by others) what really is your problem you claim it is to save the sport and protect the young riders. Man, take a look in the mirror, you are doing just the opposite.
Choppy
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2/12/2013 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2013 6:02pm
Its time for PED's testing to step up its game in AMA. With so many capable race winners this is not the same as the previous...
Its time for PED's testing to step up its game in AMA. With so many capable race winners this is not the same as the previous decade with mainly 2 dominent riders at any one time that could be scruitinised
Now more than ever we need to be pro-active in prevention rather than a future fallout and major disgraces to fix
AMA and FIM please jump on it now and keep our sport clean or clean up if needed
Husqerdo wrote:
I will be honest here, I did some trash talking to put this whole PED's crap into the dumbgeon because that it where it belongs. Obviously...
I will be honest here, I did some trash talking to put this whole PED's crap into the dumbgeon because that it where it belongs. Obviously that did not work, but I did find out how many on Vital belief this unsubstantiated misunderstood crap for what ever reason. So here it is continuing to go on and on and on.
The main problem I have is that you have no factual info, but you and many others make some connection between TDF riders and SX. That in itself is hilarious, Now when asked (by others) what really is your problem you claim it is to save the sport and protect the young riders. Man, take a look in the mirror, you are doing just the opposite.
You think PED'S only advantages are to build muscle mass and enhance recovery....

You should have left after that dumb comment, but you continue to stick your nose back in.
Regis
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2/12/2013 6:01pm
What is hilarious is your matter of fact attitude that it isn't happening.
Regis
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2/12/2013 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2013 6:11pm
To add to the Weiser guys reply. I feel I.V.,s should be legal to rehydrate between moto's at National outdoors. If the conditions are hot on...
To add to the Weiser guys reply. I feel I.V.,s should be legal to rehydrate between moto's at National outdoors. If the conditions are hot on race day, say above 95f.
Regis wrote:
then you seperate the "have's" from the "Have Nots" even more. Who is going to administer and give riders "I.V.'s? is it going to be up...
then you seperate the "have's" from the "Have Nots" even more. Who is going to administer and give riders "I.V.'s? is it going to be up to the rider?

This rule is to keep a level playing field, not to hurt riders.
i have heard the arguement not.to legalise I.V's. Does it really cost that much?
Think about it.

Where are you going to get a bag of IV fluid and suppplies to put it in your body? Who is going to hook you up in between motos? Your mechanic? Mom? Dad? Girlfriend?

So you would need to be able to by the fluids and have someone there able to hook you up. The top guys, yeah maybe they can bring someone, figure out the logistics of getting it and relaxing in the motor coach to get hooked up. Everybody else, it would be another expense and IMO just not possible to have the time or resources.

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