Chapparal/L&Mc Team Question

Edited Date/Time 2/3/2013 12:11am
So I know that "nobody knows" any details about what happened, but what I'm surprised about is that nobody in the media is even speculating about what happened...

Do you guys think that Chapparal simply didn't pay the money agreed upon?
I would think that the most likely scenario.
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GrapeApe
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1/31/2013 8:19am
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it fits: If there was an ounce of class in the leadership on that team they would have put out PR's with regard to SX.com last year and Chaparral this year clarifying that they upheld their commitments but other sources of revenue fell through. By saying nothing they perpetuate the public perception that SX.com and Chaparral are the reason the team failed. Perhaps it is that level of professionalism that makes it hard to secure sponsorships for the team?

Now maybe I'm wrong and Chaparral defaulted, in which case L&Mc are handling the situation fine.
1/31/2013 8:26am
I agree with you, but those 2 sponsors that you just mentioned were the title sponsors... and there were no ther real secondary title sponsors. Then you just have a slew of industry equipment sponsors after that... so where is the source of revenue that fell through? Were they counting on another title sponsor you think? Something to go below Chap on the masthead?
TX24
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1/31/2013 8:28am
Totally agree Grape.
Shawn142
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1/31/2013 8:31am Edited Date/Time 1/31/2013 8:31am
Not sure what media outlet you're reading but RacerX has had wild speculation and rumor about L&Mc since the announcement that it was folding.

http://www.racerxonline.com/2013/01/24/rapid-reaxtion-shutting-the-doors

http://www.racerxonline.com/2013/01/24/lmc-racing-shuts-doors-for-2013

The Shop

newmann
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1/31/2013 8:32am
GrapeApe wrote:
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another...
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it fits: If there was an ounce of class in the leadership on that team they would have put out PR's with regard to SX.com last year and Chaparral this year clarifying that they upheld their commitments but other sources of revenue fell through. By saying nothing they perpetuate the public perception that SX.com and Chaparral are the reason the team failed. Perhaps it is that level of professionalism that makes it hard to secure sponsorships for the team?

Now maybe I'm wrong and Chaparral defaulted, in which case L&Mc are handling the situation fine.
Well said, sir.

If Chapparal held up their end of the bargain and are getting drug across the carpet then someone needs to set the record straight. If the welched on their end of the deal, they need to be drug across the carpet at a very high rate of speed. Especially since they have all that #29 action on the front cover of their catalog. If Short got beat out of some money by whomever, as a long time fan of the sport, I'd like to know that as well. Simply put, I don't want to be singing the praises of or supporting any deadbeat.
TeamGreen
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1/31/2013 8:42am
GrapeApe wrote:
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another...
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it fits: If there was an ounce of class in the leadership on that team they would have put out PR's with regard to SX.com last year and Chaparral this year clarifying that they upheld their commitments but other sources of revenue fell through. By saying nothing they perpetuate the public perception that SX.com and Chaparral are the reason the team failed. Perhaps it is that level of professionalism that makes it hard to secure sponsorships for the team?

Now maybe I'm wrong and Chaparral defaulted, in which case L&Mc are handling the situation fine.
I'm pretty sure that Chaparral was solid w/ their 2012 sponsorship & decided to not continue in 2013. It appears that they did the same with JCR Honda. Chaparral was very up-front about this situation w/ JCR; so, there's always that.

As to my comments in other places about Sponsors backing out: I'm seeing that I left suspicion at Chaparral's/Dave's door...that's not my intention...

My Bad.

Throughout the last 2 yrs...Larry had some folks lined up for sponsorship that would change their minds...it seems...right at "closing time". That's how I was told things went down. Even heard the "business is slow; so, we're not gonna pay you" straight from the mgmt.

At this point in time, all I care about is Andrew. He's a guy that's answered all of our prayers when it comes to the ideas of a "role model" & "professional athelete" & "true grit"...

Yet, guess who got left with NOTHING?

No Pay, No Bikes.

Nothing.

So, he gets his own PRODUCTION BIKES & goes back out there!

He IS my "Champion".

He IS what this Sport Needs.

I want that damn Blue Plate back & I want to see Andrew earn it this year.

He IS my Champion.
newmann
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1/31/2013 9:04am
GrapeApe wrote:
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another...
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it fits: If there was an ounce of class in the leadership on that team they would have put out PR's with regard to SX.com last year and Chaparral this year clarifying that they upheld their commitments but other sources of revenue fell through. By saying nothing they perpetuate the public perception that SX.com and Chaparral are the reason the team failed. Perhaps it is that level of professionalism that makes it hard to secure sponsorships for the team?

Now maybe I'm wrong and Chaparral defaulted, in which case L&Mc are handling the situation fine.
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Chaparral was solid w/ their 2012 sponsorship & decided to not continue in 2013. It appears that they did the same with...
I'm pretty sure that Chaparral was solid w/ their 2012 sponsorship & decided to not continue in 2013. It appears that they did the same with JCR Honda. Chaparral was very up-front about this situation w/ JCR; so, there's always that.

As to my comments in other places about Sponsors backing out: I'm seeing that I left suspicion at Chaparral's/Dave's door...that's not my intention...

My Bad.

Throughout the last 2 yrs...Larry had some folks lined up for sponsorship that would change their minds...it seems...right at "closing time". That's how I was told things went down. Even heard the "business is slow; so, we're not gonna pay you" straight from the mgmt.

At this point in time, all I care about is Andrew. He's a guy that's answered all of our prayers when it comes to the ideas of a "role model" & "professional athelete" & "true grit"...

Yet, guess who got left with NOTHING?

No Pay, No Bikes.

Nothing.

So, he gets his own PRODUCTION BIKES & goes back out there!

He IS my "Champion".

He IS what this Sport Needs.

I want that damn Blue Plate back & I want to see Andrew earn it this year.

He IS my Champion.
I think the fans deserve to know who it was that didn't pay up. We are after all, the ones who support all of this through our purchasing power. I'm sure someone will say "it's none of our business", but I disagree in advance.

Short's one of the good guys. The sport in general shouldn't be tolerant of one of it's best examples getting shit upon.
TeamGreen
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1/31/2013 9:22am
GrapeApe wrote:
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another...
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it fits: If there was an ounce of class in the leadership on that team they would have put out PR's with regard to SX.com last year and Chaparral this year clarifying that they upheld their commitments but other sources of revenue fell through. By saying nothing they perpetuate the public perception that SX.com and Chaparral are the reason the team failed. Perhaps it is that level of professionalism that makes it hard to secure sponsorships for the team?

Now maybe I'm wrong and Chaparral defaulted, in which case L&Mc are handling the situation fine.
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Chaparral was solid w/ their 2012 sponsorship & decided to not continue in 2013. It appears that they did the same with...
I'm pretty sure that Chaparral was solid w/ their 2012 sponsorship & decided to not continue in 2013. It appears that they did the same with JCR Honda. Chaparral was very up-front about this situation w/ JCR; so, there's always that.

As to my comments in other places about Sponsors backing out: I'm seeing that I left suspicion at Chaparral's/Dave's door...that's not my intention...

My Bad.

Throughout the last 2 yrs...Larry had some folks lined up for sponsorship that would change their minds...it seems...right at "closing time". That's how I was told things went down. Even heard the "business is slow; so, we're not gonna pay you" straight from the mgmt.

At this point in time, all I care about is Andrew. He's a guy that's answered all of our prayers when it comes to the ideas of a "role model" & "professional athelete" & "true grit"...

Yet, guess who got left with NOTHING?

No Pay, No Bikes.

Nothing.

So, he gets his own PRODUCTION BIKES & goes back out there!

He IS my "Champion".

He IS what this Sport Needs.

I want that damn Blue Plate back & I want to see Andrew earn it this year.

He IS my Champion.
newmann wrote:
I think the fans deserve to know who it was that didn't pay up. We are after all, the ones who support all of this through...
I think the fans deserve to know who it was that didn't pay up. We are after all, the ones who support all of this through our purchasing power. I'm sure someone will say "it's none of our business", but I disagree in advance.

Short's one of the good guys. The sport in general shouldn't be tolerant of one of it's best examples getting shit upon.
Two Things...

1. A lot of this has to do, so I am to understand, with deals that simply didn't come thru...actually..."before the fact"...and "Real Title Sponsorship" dollars never being as much as needed.

2. Don't go asking for answers that you REALLY don't want. Why? When it comes to Andrew's plight...well...it breaks my heart to look at the names involved. I like these people; but, they F'd up when it comes to Andrew. It's as simple as that.

So, let's not go on a Witch-Hunt and let's hope this get's resolved...

Amicably and between "Friends".
nytsmaC
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1/31/2013 9:22am
newmann wrote:
I think the fans deserve to know who it was that didn't pay up. We are after all, the ones who support all of this through...
I think the fans deserve to know who it was that didn't pay up. We are after all, the ones who support all of this through our purchasing power. I'm sure someone will say "it's none of our business", but I disagree in advance.

Short's one of the good guys. The sport in general shouldn't be tolerant of one of it's best examples getting shit upon.
Exactly. As a casual observer it's easy to assume that Chapparal welched, and that sucks if it's not true because they are the ones who are left looking bad whether they held up their end of the bargain or not. I know they thanked Chapparal in their announcement but I doubt most people read it.
1/31/2013 9:38am Edited Date/Time 1/31/2013 9:40am
From the looks of it, its not a matter of someone not "paying up"

It looks like more of a matter of someone telling Chaparral, "Hey, float us for a little while, we have _________ lined up to sponsor is....just cover us until they come on board."

Well, ___________ never came on board, and Chaparral said "Alright boys, I'm done floating your team."

The same thing probably happened with Supercross.com. And, jsut to throw another wrench into it, doesnt Rick Johnson own supercross.com?

But, now, because someone at L&Mc won't come out and say ^^^this^^^ it is making it look as if Chaparral is the bad guy, when in actuality they are the good guy.

The only question I have is, who did Brooks think he was going to get to come on board?
nytsmaC
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1/31/2013 9:44am
San Manuel was mentioned in another thread.
newmann
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1/31/2013 10:12am
TeamGreen wrote:
Two Things... 1. A lot of this has to do, so I am to understand, with deals that simply didn't come thru...actually..."before the fact"...and "Real Title...
Two Things...

1. A lot of this has to do, so I am to understand, with deals that simply didn't come thru...actually..."before the fact"...and "Real Title Sponsorship" dollars never being as much as needed.

2. Don't go asking for answers that you REALLY don't want. Why? When it comes to Andrew's plight...well...it breaks my heart to look at the names involved. I like these people; but, they F'd up when it comes to Andrew. It's as simple as that.

So, let's not go on a Witch-Hunt and let's hope this get's resolved...

Amicably and between "Friends".
If "they" fucked up when it comes to Andrew then maybe they need to settle up before the witch hunt commences. Looks like a few people have already lit their torches. Someones word or a handshake used to mean something, and with me it still does. I spend a little money, and like to spend it with the right people whan I can.
Mikexxx
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1/31/2013 11:49am
Everyone on the team took a gamble including short they lost lets mOve on
Mikexxx
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1/31/2013 11:52am
Newman lives in a perfect world
velocitygear
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1/31/2013 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2013 12:01pm
Mikexxx wrote:
Everyone on the team took a gamble including short they lost lets mOve on
Sorry, that's horseshit!

Just sweep it under the rug, hell of a concept there!

Seems like most in this thread agree, that's good to see!
newmann
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1/31/2013 12:04pm
Mikexxx wrote:
Newman lives in a perfect world
Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Newmann just doesn't get in over his head writing checks with his mouth that his ass can't cover. Probably explains why I'm stuck here working two jobs while you're rolling big in Beverly Hills.Wink
GrapeApe
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1/31/2013 12:57pm
Mikexxx wrote:
Newman lives in a perfect world
newmann wrote:
Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Newmann just doesn't get in over his head writing checks with his mouth that his ass can't cover. Probably explains why...
Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Newmann just doesn't get in over his head writing checks with his mouth that his ass can't cover. Probably explains why I'm stuck here working two jobs while you're rolling big in Beverly Hills.Wink
On 1/27/2013 at 8:27 PM, Mikexxx wrote:

If the sponsor didn't pay, Chapparal, I want to know. On occasion I shop at that joint and I will stop if they snubbed MC and Short.

[url]http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/SHORT-MC-BROOKS-THE-REAL-…]



How is what Newmann said different from what you said just a few days ago, Mikexxx?
Zaugg
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1/31/2013 12:57pm
Media outlets shouldn't speculate. They should tell facts. That's part of what's wrong with the news these days.

Let's leave the speculating to the forums where it rightfully belongs. hahaha
IceMan446
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1/31/2013 1:09pm
So what I took from TeemGreens post is this:

MC and LB promised to pay Short, they didnt and as the owners of the team they should have, and hopefully as "friends" they can work this out.


If I were MC I wouldnt deal with LB ever again. Not saying he is a bad guy or not a good team leader, but take a look at the last couple of teams he has run and tell me how those have worked out.

I do know that MC is the King of Supercross and Honda's test rider. And how they couldnt come up with a deal is beyond me. I see that being LB's problem. MC was there as the name and LB was doing the deals behind the closed doors.

I could be way off base but as a fan, thats exactly how I see this from the outside looking in. There should be something to clarify what all happened, I dont need details, but something so there is no assumptions being made.
flarider
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1/31/2013 1:17pm
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that....


Team business is private business. They're not publicly held companies that have to answer to shareholders in quarterly P&L's and reports, they're private enterprises, and because of that, they don't have to explain anything to any one of us publicly.

If an individual or an existing sponsor has an issue in regards to the team's closure or finances, that's between them and "L&Mc, the company"

Bottom line, and with all due respect, it's "none of your beeswax"
Zaugg
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1/31/2013 1:37pm
flarider wrote:
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that.... Team business is private business. They're not...
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that....


Team business is private business. They're not publicly held companies that have to answer to shareholders in quarterly P&L's and reports, they're private enterprises, and because of that, they don't have to explain anything to any one of us publicly.

If an individual or an existing sponsor has an issue in regards to the team's closure or finances, that's between them and "L&Mc, the company"

Bottom line, and with all due respect, it's "none of your beeswax"
^^^^^^^What he said.^^^^^^^^^^^
velocitygear
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1/31/2013 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2013 2:03pm
Then I have a question;

As a consumer I believe I have the right to know, if a company is dishonest and ultimately "screwing their employees". We all know about WalMarts mentality in this regard.

So, as a consumer don't I have the right to know and NOT spend my money with such a company?

Really, besides caring for the individual-Short, I really don't care, it's the world today. But trying to say it's none of the consumers business can't be considered logical... can it?

In addition, if privacy is such a concern, shouldn't the parties AT FAULT take the proper steps to ensure such a thing doesn't happen????????????????????????

Lastly, why would anyone try to protect the guilty party here? Saying it's none of our business, is like saying we shouldn't question our government or anything else for that matter..
newmann
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1/31/2013 2:02pm
flarider wrote:
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that.... Team business is private business. They're not...
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that....


Team business is private business. They're not publicly held companies that have to answer to shareholders in quarterly P&L's and reports, they're private enterprises, and because of that, they don't have to explain anything to any one of us publicly.

If an individual or an existing sponsor has an issue in regards to the team's closure or finances, that's between them and "L&Mc, the company"

Bottom line, and with all due respect, it's "none of your beeswax"
If there had been an Engine Ice decal plastered on the side of the semi , the bike and Short's jersey, you would let us know that it wasn't your check that bounced though wouldn't you Dave? Smile I do buy a few jugs of Engine Ice from time to time and you have generously sponsored some of our race series here in Texas over the years. Like I said, I try to support the good guys when I can.
davistld01
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1/31/2013 2:06pm
Interestingly enough...on Shorts own website, he still lists Chaparral as one of his sponsors. You would certainly think that if Chaparral had been the ones who were the ones who didn't pay Andrew, he surely wouldn't have them listed as a sponsor.

http://www.andrewshort.com/sponsors
Shawn142
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1/31/2013 2:08pm
Why does no one read links? While we may never hear the entire story, we already have statements given to media guys from Brooks about how things unfolded in a general way.

Jason Weigandt - "Before you condemn Larry Brooks over the collapse of the Chaparral Honda team, keep in mind what the team was supposed to be. During the entire run up to this program, in 2011, Brooks was assured he had San Manuel's big money as a title sponsor, and that would have easily covered the bill. Then, right before the 2012 season, San Manuel went through a management change and decided to about-face on the racing thing, leaving Brooks with a team, infrustructure and contracts, but without a sponsor.

Since then he's been trying to patch it together, but even last year's addition of Chaparral wasn't enough--Brooks told me in Phoenix they knew all along they'd need even more funding, and the money was getting tight. He had irons in the fire that weekend and hoped to have something new for Anaheim 2. We didn't see anything new there, and after the race, Shorty's works Honda had to be returned to the factory Honda rig. The team was no more."

Steve Matthes - "It seemed like a great thing when Larry Brooks teamed up with Jeremy McGrath to start a brand new team and on a factory Honda at that. Supercross.com was announced as a title sponsor (after San Manuel Casino dropped out) but shortly after the 2012 season, they bailed as title and the team was forced to the sidelines for a few races although Short himself was healed up from an injury and ready to go. Of course there was the storybook Seattle SX win in a van and then Chaparral stepped up in what looked like a good deal for everyone. But we know now that it was just a temporary stopgap deal to get the team through some tough times. It wasn’t enough to carry on."
flarider
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1/31/2013 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2013 2:15pm
flarider wrote:
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that.... Team business is private business. They're not...
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that....


Team business is private business. They're not publicly held companies that have to answer to shareholders in quarterly P&L's and reports, they're private enterprises, and because of that, they don't have to explain anything to any one of us publicly.

If an individual or an existing sponsor has an issue in regards to the team's closure or finances, that's between them and "L&Mc, the company"

Bottom line, and with all due respect, it's "none of your beeswax"
newmann wrote:
If there had been an Engine Ice decal plastered on the side of the semi , the bike and Short's jersey, you would let us know...
If there had been an Engine Ice decal plastered on the side of the semi , the bike and Short's jersey, you would let us know that it wasn't your check that bounced though wouldn't you Dave? Smile I do buy a few jugs of Engine Ice from time to time and you have generously sponsored some of our race series here in Texas over the years. Like I said, I try to support the good guys when I can.
I appreciate your support, but had we been involved in L&Mc, their closing and anything having to do with my business with them is private between the parties, just as our sponsorship terms of present riders and teams is not for public knowledge.

It just isn't anyone's business, at least not the dirty details.

They closed, they're done, Shorty wil come out fine and do what he feels he has to do, if anything.
velocitygear
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1/31/2013 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2013 3:28pm
flarider wrote:
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that.... Team business is private business. They're not...
I'm going to give the unpopular response, the one no one wants to hear, but I'm used to that....


Team business is private business. They're not publicly held companies that have to answer to shareholders in quarterly P&L's and reports, they're private enterprises, and because of that, they don't have to explain anything to any one of us publicly.

If an individual or an existing sponsor has an issue in regards to the team's closure or finances, that's between them and "L&Mc, the company"

Bottom line, and with all due respect, it's "none of your beeswax"
newmann wrote:
If there had been an Engine Ice decal plastered on the side of the semi , the bike and Short's jersey, you would let us know...
If there had been an Engine Ice decal plastered on the side of the semi , the bike and Short's jersey, you would let us know that it wasn't your check that bounced though wouldn't you Dave? Smile I do buy a few jugs of Engine Ice from time to time and you have generously sponsored some of our race series here in Texas over the years. Like I said, I try to support the good guys when I can.
flarider wrote:
I appreciate your support, but had we been involved in L&Mc, their closing and anything having to do with my business with them is private between...
I appreciate your support, but had we been involved in L&Mc, their closing and anything having to do with my business with them is private between the parties, just as our sponsorship terms of present riders and teams is not for public knowledge.

It just isn't anyone's business, at least not the dirty details.

They closed, they're done, Shorty wil come out fine and do what he feels he has to do, if anything.
If that is the case, then the parties involved shouldn't have allowed this problem to extend to this point... The parties involved didn't take the steps necessary to keep it "private"...!! and obviously the situation has become public knowledge.
It is the parties involved that created the problem, so it is only logical for consumers/fans to want to know who screwed one of the sports most likeable guys.

The ONLY way you could get away with this logic imo is if Short WAS MADE AWARE of such a possibility! and it doesn't sound like he was!

You cannot fault us fans and consumers for wanting facts, especially with the information that is already in the public domain.

AND if the problem has nothing to do with Brooks/MC or Chaparral, as someone mentioned previously, there should have been a press release to inform the public.

The hush, hush and sweep it under the rug is NOT AN OPTION! I don't care if you call it "business" or not. It's not right and shouldn't be ignored!
Tracktor
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1/31/2013 3:31pm
Do teams really announce sponsors prior to having a signed contract & money in the bank (at least a deposit of some kind)? I originate mortgage loans for a living. I don't take an application the go spend the money I hope to make IF the loan actually closes. Maybe MX'ers really are a stupid as the stereotype?..........................
velocitygear
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1/31/2013 3:37pm
sure, why not. If it's at the riders expense Wink ..... in this scenario anyway..
Lightning78
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1/31/2013 4:57pm
GrapeApe wrote:
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another...
I personally think Chapparal did what they agreed to do but the team was betting on the come that never came. I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it fits: If there was an ounce of class in the leadership on that team they would have put out PR's with regard to SX.com last year and Chaparral this year clarifying that they upheld their commitments but other sources of revenue fell through. By saying nothing they perpetuate the public perception that SX.com and Chaparral are the reason the team failed. Perhaps it is that level of professionalism that makes it hard to secure sponsorships for the team?

Now maybe I'm wrong and Chaparral defaulted, in which case L&Mc are handling the situation fine.
I think youre right and I also think its chickenshit how they went about it......Larry "Yea we'll for sure be here ALL year" at A1 when first asked.

And does anyone find it ODD that Chaparral now has a weekly ad spot in the Speed program yet dropped their team? Maybe they figured it would be a lot cheaper to just advertise during the SX races, even on the MMI commercial and their "Team" .... This happens year in and year out, yet were not supposed to know or talk about it? Typical Moto industry stuff......

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