PingrPingree on Feld - "teams are being bled from every angle"

GuyB
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1/29/2013 6:09pm
Choppy wrote:
I don't think Dave cares about ONE persons opinion on vital.
Huh...then why do I get texts from him with correct TV times so that I can post here?
velocitygear
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1/29/2013 6:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2013 6:48pm
Choppy wrote:
I don't think Dave cares about ONE persons opinion on vital.
GuyB wrote:
Huh...then why do I get texts from him with correct TV times so that I can post here?
...
Motodrew295
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1/29/2013 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2013 6:15pm
CamP wrote:
Circuses don't sell tight ropes, and Supercross doesn't sell dirt bikes.
good point. i guess the same way Monster Jam doesn't sell monster trucks.

Us fans and riders always talk about growing the sport and comparing it to NASCAR. NASCAR is both the promoter and sanctioning body. We have a cluster F of a sanctioning body and a promoter who has a short and narrow sighted interest in their bottom line. The whole show needs a face lift and a common vision of where its going and what needs to be done to get it there.
Choppy
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1/29/2013 6:17pm
Choppy wrote:
I don't think Dave cares about ONE persons opinion on vital.
GuyB wrote:
Huh...then why do I get texts from him with correct TV times so that I can post here?
So that ALL the people that view the site can get the correct times not just one.

Kiwi wrote, "You see by calling Dave out DIRECTLY he feels pressure to perform. The ball is in his court. He can change things"

I was more responding to that, because I doubt that in the back of his mind he's thinking, "I need to step it up because motokiwi called me out."

The Shop

1/29/2013 6:17pm
I am amazed at the lack of business knowledge on ROI by those that go straight to the $ someone/ or company has and injecting their thoughts on where/how much of it should be spent......

Top of the food chain in my work world is Warren Buffet and he can (and does) buy and sell businesses on a very large or small scale......

he would not put one dime into supercross..........

just be glad somebody is willing to market supercross........
Drtbykr
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1/29/2013 6:19pm
Ping has rode, managed...he should know.

There needs to be more entertainment value than seeing your favourite rider ride an 8 minute or less heat, and a 15 minute main.

The business model is broken, you need to put a vehicle on the track that people can imagine themselves in, regardless of age or skill. SX has become a circus....people doing amazing feats, yes. But does that mean you go out and buy a lion, cage and whip?

4 wheelers, side by sides, hell, I don't care if their is a moat dug around and jet skis are raced....when that 45 year old guy with the shitty life sees something he could have some fun in or on out there, money will flow and more than 5 manufacturers will be represented.

I'd rather watch anything than listen to a commercial for the 15th time at 130db's.
Choppy
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1/29/2013 6:22pm
AHRMA361 wrote:
I am amazed at the lack of business knowledge on ROI by those that go straight to the $ someone/ or company has and injecting their...
I am amazed at the lack of business knowledge on ROI by those that go straight to the $ someone/ or company has and injecting their thoughts on where/how much of it should be spent......

Top of the food chain in my work world is Warren Buffet and he can (and does) buy and sell businesses on a very large or small scale......

he would not put one dime into supercross..........

just be glad somebody is willing to market supercross........
I've always thought(and could be WAY WAY wrong) that Feld bought the rights to Monster Jam/monster trucks and the SX series simply came with it.
Holigan
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1/29/2013 6:29pm
When was Supercross ever better than it is today?
Wolfman
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1/29/2013 6:39pm
Wolfman wrote:
Sick Sick Sick Sick
GuyB wrote:
Show a little respect, get a little respect.
My messages are full of respect for those who deserve it. It has nothing to do with net value, sir.
stantdm
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1/29/2013 6:42pm
When a company puts together a "show", it usually treats the performers with some respect and provides an environment for the success of those involved. It appears a lot could be done that isn't being done as far as rider purses, merchandise sales, and so forth.

I suppose my reaction to all of this is that Feld should look at doing some things about purse money, advertising for the teams and sponsors besides Monster, allow some merchandise sales to benefit the teams, and so forth. Doubt it will happen. It might be, in the long run, best for this traveling circus to fold up, get Feld and perhaps the AMA out of it, and create a viable organization run by the people who race. Maybe DC should run both SX and MX.

Reading about Feld puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Wolfman
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1/29/2013 6:42pm
And I selected my pic because I respect u, not because I have anything against you.
Drtbykr
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1/29/2013 6:47pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2013 6:48pm
The 80's were "as good". I think the difference is, no production rule so lots of oh la la factor, your personal bike was a two stroke, cheaper to maintain, the demographics were more in motorcyclings favour, the economy was better (after the early eighties, when I graduated college in the early 80's, you could hardly get a job delivering papers...I bought myself a 750 Seca as a grad. present at 22%, probably still paying for it, lol).
I also think, love 'em or hate them, the stars had huge personalities...Bradshaw, Hannah nearing the end of his career, Johnson....jeez, even the quiet ones like Ward, Bailey and O'Mara had "it".

Now we have robots on production looking bikes.

I think Ralph is a nice person, met him in TO at the ME track walk party, he seemed very nice. But, he and Emig have to go.

Jeez, Travers and anyone else (Ping?) can do a better job in the booth.
CamP
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1/29/2013 6:59pm
Holigan wrote:
When was Supercross ever better than it is today?
Depends on your definition of "Better".

Do families that are new to the sport attend the SX for entertainment value, then get inspired to buy all the kids bikes on Monday, or do they attend the SX for entertainment value, then say, "that was cool, but there is no way in hell that my kid will ever do that".

If it's the former, then I would say it's better.
pacman00
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1/29/2013 7:14pm
feld makes the least amount of money with sx as far as dirt events in stadiums. thats why ticket prices etc. are higher than monster jam. they make alot of merch money at monster jam from the kids wanting a grave digger or donkey kong plush toy etc. so this is what we get. and its not gonna change anytime soon.
GHR
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1/29/2013 7:16pm
I didn't hear Ping say that yet, and I didn't listen to the show yet either but here is my own take on SX / MX as a past investor in a team a few years ago, a fan, and a rep for outside industry sponsorships now as a side hobby:

How much revenue does a Race team actually generate if any?
The vast majority of teams operate at a net loss. More money goes out than comes in.

Without major sponsors covering this discrepancy in accounting the team then cannot sustain itself for very long. Money into a team is viewed at as scared money now more than ever. Scared money does not make more money. EVER.

What is the solution? What is the value to outside (or inside) industry sponsors to bring in more money?

In theory it is simple, in reality it would be complicated to deliver, but it is possible.

SX / MX is lacking "outside the box" thinking on how to do this. I have my own ideas I am currently testing on 3 major fortune 500 companies myself for future SX / MX teams as a test of reasonableness.

HRC race team is starting to scratch the surface on a method of what I believe is the way to generate revenues that surpass costs. They are not all the way there yet IMO but seem to be heading in right direction. Cary Hart and company are some of the smartest Entrepreneurs that were ironically birthed from within Moto with is VERY rare. Most of the smart biz men are outside the industry and when they show up to the game to play ball, they are NOT welcomed with open arms and that is a major problem too.

SX is also lacking solid sales reps for the teams. I mean REAL pros not just the flat bill BRO dude from down the block begging to be "in the industry" because his hot sister is the GF of a SX star or some garbage like that.
A small sample of one of my ideas include this: Instead of spending X dollars on team budget, why not take a % of X Budget and fit in a real sales rep for the team who has the job of bringing in more money / sponsors and deliver the value for the entities that are risking the capital? Pure commission need only apply. Deliver your contacts and sponsors or its....NEXT. Only a small up front base salary to get them moving would be a better team investment than"Unobtanium" parts that shed micro pounds off a bike anyway and do nothing good for the bottom line. That position to me has more value than even the rider himself! Unfortunately the managers and mechanics often times become the "reps" and they do not have the skills or network or professionalism to be closing 6 and 7 digit deals.

Unfortunately in the world we live in now cash is king and cash has 10 if not 100 opportunities looking at it and Racing or a Team that makes basically no net profit, is way down on the list of a smart, good or sound investment to place said money. In fact it's probably the most ridiculous place to put it really the way the teams currently operate.

That being said, we all Moto not because we are smart but because we like it as a hobby, escape, lifestyle, etc. Therefore most of the money in the system now from private guys are birthed from pure emotions / passion. Superfans. I know because I was one of them on a much smaller scale to test the waters around here. My real heroes are guys like Mike Genova for a number of reasons. Again, I have spoke to him at length, but do not know him on a personal level. Mocking MCR Spa Displays and his core business competency is just a tidbit of how naive some industry journalist are. The industry should be talking about how awesome his stuff is and spreading the word as a network banded together for the common good! Where is the profit in talking shit?

I have a list of things I feel Feld, the teams, the announcers and the riders could do if they all started working together that could easily bring up the Value for outside industry sponsor money without costing a dime! These things will require a paradigm shift in thinking and will likely never happen without the fulltime efforts of a few top name credible people in the industry, some riders included. Those people now know what they are doing and why they do it and they control certain aspects of the industry and essentially are thwarting the total growth potential. Perhaps attrition will help and the bad seeds will eventually die off, but we are too impatient to wait for that and the next generation of moto industry people are from the shoe gazer generation where starting at a phone is easier than sitting in a board room with multi million dollar decision makers. I would love to put 5-10 of the key heavy hitters of this industry in a room and give them my own motivational speech, however shitty it may sound, as to how and why they need to change their thinking. It was said somewhere in another thread and it is absolutely accurate - "A Rising tide raises all ships". This takes a mental shift in what the leaders are SAYING and what they are DOING to pull it off. In 1-2 seasons of integrated mental shift thinking and team promoting from the industry as a whole, I sincerely believe the VALUE of this sport can be proven more succinctly and sufficiently to OUTSIDE sponsors and the water level will go up.

That is all for now, thanks for listening to some of my opinions. Smile
BobbyM
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1/29/2013 7:18pm
motokiwi wrote:
SX has a name and face to blame it on, Dave Prater, Director of supercross for Feld motor sports. According to jt$ hes one of the...
SX has a name and face to blame it on, Dave Prater, Director of supercross for Feld motor sports.
According to jt$ hes one of the good guys... however he runs the show...
The show that does not pay the talent adequately, does not give teams exposure, over emphasizes their main sponsor so much that it becomes a giant monster energy advertisement first and foremost with some racing in between.

GuyB wrote:
Yeah, I saw you call out Dave the other day. Have you met Dave? Talked to him? Know what he's all about? Yeah, I didn't think...
Yeah, I saw you call out Dave the other day. Have you met Dave? Talked to him? Know what he's all about? Yeah, I didn't think so.
guy is moto and a really good dude no matter what the corp. is about.
bd
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1/29/2013 7:19pm
I have not researched this company. However, this company can easily be like the majority of companies who I categorize as average or good. An excellent company was AAPL when Steve Jobs ran it.

AAPL was/is purpose driven and uses earnings to drive purpose. Many companies are earnings driven.

So what is promoter's purpose? To offer professional supercross racers an incredible platform to perform for live and TV audience or for revenue via TV commercial, merchandise, tickets, advertisement etc. There is clearly a difference when SX is broadcasted on CBS vs. Speed. The promoter is targeting an additional market - hence trying to increase market share and sales.

Ironically, the purpose or mission I first wrote would produce enourmous revenue for the promoter. Before I could make a claim, I would need to do research.
braaap
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1/29/2013 7:21pm
Geez...you guys sound like a bunch of liberals waiting on a handout.

Feld is in the business of making money, not giving money. Just like most other companies they will pay their employees or contractors (the riders) what the market will bear. Can they pay more? Sure, especially since they are a private company and don't have to answer to shareholders. Will they? Doubt it, especially since the head chief is a circus guy, not a moto guy.

Do you really want to hate on Feld for trying to maximize their return on investment? Dude, this country became the strongest in the world because some smart business people maximized their ROI, created more jobs, and the list goes on.

Until the riders, teams, etc. demand better conditions and pay (by not showing up to the races) things probably will not change. There are very few people in the world that can ride at their level so Feld can't just hire other people to fill in. Feld would be left without a SX series. It would seem that the riders should have the upper hand.

The big question is though, is Supercross really that valuable and profitable to Feld that they would really give a shit?

MY guess is NO.

(by the way.....i am not a union guy. I know someone is going to go there)
bd
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1/29/2013 7:30pm
braaap wrote:
Geez...you guys sound like a bunch of liberals waiting on a handout. Feld is in the business of making money, not giving money. Just like most...
Geez...you guys sound like a bunch of liberals waiting on a handout.

Feld is in the business of making money, not giving money. Just like most other companies they will pay their employees or contractors (the riders) what the market will bear. Can they pay more? Sure, especially since they are a private company and don't have to answer to shareholders. Will they? Doubt it, especially since the head chief is a circus guy, not a moto guy.

Do you really want to hate on Feld for trying to maximize their return on investment? Dude, this country became the strongest in the world because some smart business people maximized their ROI, created more jobs, and the list goes on.

Until the riders, teams, etc. demand better conditions and pay (by not showing up to the races) things probably will not change. There are very few people in the world that can ride at their level so Feld can't just hire other people to fill in. Feld would be left without a SX series. It would seem that the riders should have the upper hand.

The big question is though, is Supercross really that valuable and profitable to Feld that they would really give a shit?

MY guess is NO.

(by the way.....i am not a union guy. I know someone is going to go there)
I remember when tech company MS started running DCFs before launching new innovation and got its assed kicked by GOOG and AAPL. ROI is measurement after investment. Growth and Earnings drives frim value.

The question: is a firm maximizing value when not purpose driven?
CR250Rider
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1/29/2013 7:36pm
is there a meltdown in progress?


Kenneth Jeffrey Feld (born 1948 in Washington, DC) is the CEO of Feld Entertainment, which owns Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, Disney on Ice!, Doodlebops Live!
1/29/2013 8:00pm
pacman00 wrote:
feld makes the least amount of money with sx as far as dirt events in stadiums. thats why ticket prices etc. are higher than monster jam...
feld makes the least amount of money with sx as far as dirt events in stadiums. thats why ticket prices etc. are higher than monster jam. they make alot of merch money at monster jam from the kids wanting a grave digger or donkey kong plush toy etc. so this is what we get. and its not gonna change anytime soon.
I'm going to call bullshit on your take, unless of course you have actual numbers. Ticket prices for SX are higher because people will pay it. If they could charge for Monster Jam what they charge for SX they would. Unless economics have changed since I was in school, supply and demand dictate prices. Monster Jam sells out because they have ten dollar tickets, SX sells out without the ten dollar tickets.
racer369
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1/29/2013 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2013 8:07pm
Feld will have an influx of money soon. Sold its holdings in the IHRA dragracing asc.
braaap
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1/29/2013 8:10pm
braaap wrote:
Geez...you guys sound like a bunch of liberals waiting on a handout. Feld is in the business of making money, not giving money. Just like most...
Geez...you guys sound like a bunch of liberals waiting on a handout.

Feld is in the business of making money, not giving money. Just like most other companies they will pay their employees or contractors (the riders) what the market will bear. Can they pay more? Sure, especially since they are a private company and don't have to answer to shareholders. Will they? Doubt it, especially since the head chief is a circus guy, not a moto guy.

Do you really want to hate on Feld for trying to maximize their return on investment? Dude, this country became the strongest in the world because some smart business people maximized their ROI, created more jobs, and the list goes on.

Until the riders, teams, etc. demand better conditions and pay (by not showing up to the races) things probably will not change. There are very few people in the world that can ride at their level so Feld can't just hire other people to fill in. Feld would be left without a SX series. It would seem that the riders should have the upper hand.

The big question is though, is Supercross really that valuable and profitable to Feld that they would really give a shit?

MY guess is NO.

(by the way.....i am not a union guy. I know someone is going to go there)
bd wrote:
I remember when tech company MS started running DCFs before launching new innovation and got its assed kicked by GOOG and AAPL. ROI is measurement after...
I remember when tech company MS started running DCFs before launching new innovation and got its assed kicked by GOOG and AAPL. ROI is measurement after investment. Growth and Earnings drives frim value.

The question: is a firm maximizing value when not purpose driven?
Feld does invest in Supercross where they have to in order to increase ROI: advertising, TV deals, super duper firework shows, stupid MF's running around in fat man suits. They don't have to pay more to the riders to increase ROI.

Purpose driven? A firm doesn't have to be purpose driven in all aspects of their company. Feld is probably purpose driven with giraffes, clowns, tigers and that "ball of death" thing they ride the minibikes in (hey, thats kinda moto).

My company was bought by Berkshire Hathaway a couple of years ago. Warren Buffet admittedly knew very little about the chemical industry and didn't really care. What he did care about was that our company made a very large ROI year after year.
mom241
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1/29/2013 8:18pm
Doesn't Warren Buffet own Geico? Think be has put a few dimes in to SX
GuyB
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1/29/2013 8:21pm
I thought the whole 99% thing had faded from memory. Guess not.
1/29/2013 8:24pm
Nice to see braap, GHR and some others get it.....

Take your personal feeling goggles off for a second and you would realize it is a show....it's all about asses in the seats that keep the whole thing going. Feld doesn't care two shits about the "core" moto guy going to an event. Sure, they love that they do......but is that the base they are catering to when the TV commercials for SX are filled with huge get-offs and cartwheeling "entertainers" that still come back every week to put on the show for spectators at chicken feed purse amounts?

Face it. They are not marketing to YOU...the core guy....they are promoting an EVENT for the masses......

They spend the money (Feld)....they decide the rules.

Don't like it? That's on you. Start your own competitive events and get rich. Otherwise take some business courses and learn what runs a company, or STFU.
1/29/2013 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 1/30/2013 5:18am
mom241 wrote:
Doesn't Warren Buffet own Geico? Think be has put a few dimes in to SX
Sure....he started the Government Employees Insurance Company....i.e. GEICO.......his company marketing to all the spectators in the seats and viewing audience by funding teams is good marketing for GEICO.....but, you don't see him busting ass to buy the series from Feld though???
GuyB
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1/29/2013 8:28pm
A lot of Feld events (Ringling Bros., Disney on Ice, Nuclear Cowboyz) are shows. Feld is in the entertainment business. But Supercross a hybrid. You get the show in the beginning, and then racing that no one is writing a script for.
Pdub
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1/29/2013 8:28pm
braaap wrote:
Geez...you guys sound like a bunch of liberals waiting on a handout. Feld is in the business of making money, not giving money. Just like most...
Geez...you guys sound like a bunch of liberals waiting on a handout.

Feld is in the business of making money, not giving money. Just like most other companies they will pay their employees or contractors (the riders) what the market will bear. Can they pay more? Sure, especially since they are a private company and don't have to answer to shareholders. Will they? Doubt it, especially since the head chief is a circus guy, not a moto guy.

Do you really want to hate on Feld for trying to maximize their return on investment? Dude, this country became the strongest in the world because some smart business people maximized their ROI, created more jobs, and the list goes on.

Until the riders, teams, etc. demand better conditions and pay (by not showing up to the races) things probably will not change. There are very few people in the world that can ride at their level so Feld can't just hire other people to fill in. Feld would be left without a SX series. It would seem that the riders should have the upper hand.

The big question is though, is Supercross really that valuable and profitable to Feld that they would really give a shit?

MY guess is NO.

(by the way.....i am not a union guy. I know someone is going to go there)
Agree with most of what you wrote, but... The riders and the factory teams are not in the same boat. They are different stakeholders. The factories are better positioned to negotiate their demands; the best riders are too busy trying to get hired by the factories (or keep their "jobs").

Now, could a promoter run a moneymaking Supercross series without the factories? Only if they didn't have to compete against a rival series that featured the factory teams. Now we've come full circle to relive the debacle that was Jamsports, and maybe now we can seriously question why we allow "our" sport to be monopolized. Where is the congressional anti-trust hearing? Don't you guys vote?? LOL
TeamGreen
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1/29/2013 8:31pm
Dave is the Devil? Oh, OK.

Feld is "Bad"; because, they're in this for a Profit? OK, Got it.

How about you STFU and go get a clue?

Nice.

Have a Great Night, Pumpkin.

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