What to do when you can not fill the gate because of your own greed.

kongols
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11/24/2012 10:45am
TFS wrote:
Anyone who agrees with me does know what they are talking about!
It seems to me that your support for Luongo is some weird and twisted way to get back at DC.
TFS
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11/24/2012 11:03am
TFS wrote:
Anyone who agrees with me does know what they are talking about!
kongols wrote:
It seems to me that your support for Luongo is some weird and twisted way to get back at DC.
Ah, the "question motives" card....

I'm working up to "The Rock" status.

I said all I need to say about the past already.

I'm just watching people do the same ol shit, go ballistic over shit they know little about.

You need me around to explain why all pro moto series are businesses, and you are going to be disappointed if you expect business decisions to be "good for the sport" based on your criteria. You should be angry at the FIM if you think the sport is in bad hands.

The MX part of the FIM sees this as an opportunity to spread FIM into developing regions like Middle East, Asia, and Russia. I don't think they give a shit what you think, because you are not thinking, just reacting.
kongols
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11/24/2012 11:09am
TFS wrote:
Ah, the "question motives" card.... I'm working up to "The Rock" status. I said all I need to say about the past already. I'm just watching...
Ah, the "question motives" card....

I'm working up to "The Rock" status.

I said all I need to say about the past already.

I'm just watching people do the same ol shit, go ballistic over shit they know little about.

You need me around to explain why all pro moto series are businesses, and you are going to be disappointed if you expect business decisions to be "good for the sport" based on your criteria. You should be angry at the FIM if you think the sport is in bad hands.

The MX part of the FIM sees this as an opportunity to spread FIM into developing regions like Middle East, Asia, and Russia. I don't think they give a shit what you think, because you are not thinking, just reacting.
Well, then it is what it is, they just lost a fan.
TFS
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11/24/2012 11:18am
kongols wrote:
Well, then it is what it is, they just lost a fan.
That is obvious.

Now it is my turn to question motives.

Your insistence on posting to the world that you are not a fan anymore over and over again is suspicious!

If you are sincere about your concern for the sport, become an FIM representative and do a better job yourself, or work the local level and make it better. Smile

The Shop

steve_97060
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11/24/2012 11:28am
TFS wrote:
Ah, the "question motives" card.... I'm working up to "The Rock" status. I said all I need to say about the past already. I'm just watching...
Ah, the "question motives" card....

I'm working up to "The Rock" status.

I said all I need to say about the past already.

I'm just watching people do the same ol shit, go ballistic over shit they know little about.

You need me around to explain why all pro moto series are businesses, and you are going to be disappointed if you expect business decisions to be "good for the sport" based on your criteria. You should be angry at the FIM if you think the sport is in bad hands.

The MX part of the FIM sees this as an opportunity to spread FIM into developing regions like Middle East, Asia, and Russia. I don't think they give a shit what you think, because you are not thinking, just reacting.
kongols wrote:
Well, then it is what it is, they just lost a fan.
I don't care how you spin it, you can't believe these changes are good for the sport of MX in Europe..

Unless, GL is really just doing this with the long term vision of building the sport up in the rest of the world so eventually he can have full gates from a broader spectrum of riders.

You know, all these other countries with thousands of potential MX'rs with the disposeable income to afford 8k bikes on a regular basis along with the dealer networks and tracks to support these huge numbers in Mexico, Brazil, Qatar, etc.. Huge feeder potential there no doubt..
kongols
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11/24/2012 11:29am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 11:29am
TFS wrote:
That is obvious. Now it is my turn to question motives. Your insistence on posting to the world that you are not a fan anymore over...
That is obvious.

Now it is my turn to question motives.

Your insistence on posting to the world that you are not a fan anymore over and over again is suspicious!

If you are sincere about your concern for the sport, become an FIM representative and do a better job yourself, or work the local level and make it better. Smile
Lol, I knew that this bullshit response of "and do a better job yourself" was coming. Maybe I should become a top pro and make a stance by not riding GP`s?
TFS
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11/24/2012 12:10pm
TFS wrote:
Ah, the "question motives" card.... I'm working up to "The Rock" status. I said all I need to say about the past already. I'm just watching...
Ah, the "question motives" card....

I'm working up to "The Rock" status.

I said all I need to say about the past already.

I'm just watching people do the same ol shit, go ballistic over shit they know little about.

You need me around to explain why all pro moto series are businesses, and you are going to be disappointed if you expect business decisions to be "good for the sport" based on your criteria. You should be angry at the FIM if you think the sport is in bad hands.

The MX part of the FIM sees this as an opportunity to spread FIM into developing regions like Middle East, Asia, and Russia. I don't think they give a shit what you think, because you are not thinking, just reacting.
kongols wrote:
Well, then it is what it is, they just lost a fan.
I don't care how you spin it, you can't believe these changes are good for the sport of MX in Europe.. Unless, GL is really just...
I don't care how you spin it, you can't believe these changes are good for the sport of MX in Europe..

Unless, GL is really just doing this with the long term vision of building the sport up in the rest of the world so eventually he can have full gates from a broader spectrum of riders.

You know, all these other countries with thousands of potential MX'rs with the disposeable income to afford 8k bikes on a regular basis along with the dealer networks and tracks to support these huge numbers in Mexico, Brazil, Qatar, etc.. Huge feeder potential there no doubt..
How is this any different from the most successful American racing series, Supercross? SX is not going to each city just to develop riding areas and draw full gates via local riders. They don't give a shit. What SX wants is just enough to run a show and get on with it. SX has also already tried going to more countries as well, and that was not for local riders either.

It seems like YS is doing things more like the most successful US racing series. Emulating something that works well (follow the money, use just enough riders to get by, have an exciting main event...) is a bad idea?

You people have become so knee-jerk negative about things that you don't think any more.
TFS
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11/24/2012 12:14pm
TFS wrote:
That is obvious. Now it is my turn to question motives. Your insistence on posting to the world that you are not a fan anymore over...
That is obvious.

Now it is my turn to question motives.

Your insistence on posting to the world that you are not a fan anymore over and over again is suspicious!

If you are sincere about your concern for the sport, become an FIM representative and do a better job yourself, or work the local level and make it better. Smile
kongols wrote:
Lol, I knew that this bullshit response of "and do a better job yourself" was coming. Maybe I should become a top pro and make a...
Lol, I knew that this bullshit response of "and do a better job yourself" was coming. Maybe I should become a top pro and make a stance by not riding GP`s?
No, at this point, I think you need to time to grieve and I should send you flowers while you recover.

You dreamed up a false and romantic notion about things, and its been shattered by reality. It takes time to unravel. Smoke some pot. Play with the dog.
ehr400
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11/24/2012 12:31pm
ehr400 wrote:
After being at Lierop today and talking to the owner for a while it appears all the other track promoters aren't fans of YT either. He...
After being at Lierop today and talking to the owner for a while it appears all the other track promoters aren't fans of YT either. He told me Lommel had to pay 700,000 Euro to hold the MXDN. Thats fucked up.
kongols wrote:
Kegums has to pay more than a million for 2014.
That is fucking BS. It gets to a point that you wont even bring in half that amount of money after it is all said and done. It almost seems like the old Mob tactics of street taxes. Keep bleeding them, don't kill them just barely keep enough change in their pockets to give them hope.
Dirtysmile56
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11/24/2012 12:37pm
TFS wrote:
WTF with the negativity? You monkies have no clue. It was the teams' idea.

You people dont know shit but lickin Morgantown's balls. Smile
GuyB wrote:
Well, they did learn from the best...
Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile !!!!!!
biker85
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11/24/2012 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 1:33pm
TFS wrote:
Ah, the "question motives" card.... I'm working up to "The Rock" status. I said all I need to say about the past already. I'm just watching...
Ah, the "question motives" card....

I'm working up to "The Rock" status.

I said all I need to say about the past already.

I'm just watching people do the same ol shit, go ballistic over shit they know little about.

You need me around to explain why all pro moto series are businesses, and you are going to be disappointed if you expect business decisions to be "good for the sport" based on your criteria. You should be angry at the FIM if you think the sport is in bad hands.

The MX part of the FIM sees this as an opportunity to spread FIM into developing regions like Middle East, Asia, and Russia. I don't think they give a shit what you think, because you are not thinking, just reacting.
you really think the promotor for the Thailand, Qatar, Mexico or Brasil Gp goes wild with only 2 heats and probably no local riders (thanks to the 108% rule)

don't think so ...
biker85
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11/24/2012 1:46pm
i don't know why people get exited abouth MX1 and MX2 racing together ....
Look at the results of the MXON the last years .... the only MX2 riders who can race the MX1 guys are Herlings, Roczen and the USA boys.

So next season, Herlings wil go for a top 10 place and the other MX2 riders probably don't make the top 15 ....
DrSweden
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11/24/2012 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 2:45pm
englishman wrote:
Doc I like your posts, you are more often than not a voice of reason around here but , in this case, you have absolutely no...
Doc I like your posts, you are more often than not a voice of reason around here but , in this case, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about .
Well, even the sun has spots. Grinning But quite honestly, this thread and the many others negative ones (from a few) is for me really just spitting. Honestly I crave for some facts based discussion, exemplified with some victims, or whatever spec that would be a solid ground for a better alternative. Some needs to weight up the huge amount of bitterness. All I hear is GL is a dick, which by now should be attached to something other than he's an greedy dick.

I really wonder what's going on with Kongols, usually when people are THAT upset, they have some personal suffering feeding their frustration, maybe something is going on with Kegums, and him seeing the cost they are paying or something? Meanwhile we in Sweden most likely have a similar agreement, and I just think people are happy the event is still running?

Maybe the European scene is not able to produce as many good riders because of a new era, lack of interested rather than GL by some magical influence is halting progress on the may local tracks all over Europe.

I see the Swedish GP as often as I can, and ALL the best riders we have get a shot via the wild cards etc, this year we had 10 guys qualifying, while just 1 ending up top 20. In what other scenario would that change? How is GL to blame for that? If we had 8 of them doing top ten on home soil, maybe the gates would be more stacked the next race? I mean who is to blame for the lack of quality riders from each country?

Feel free to add some valid info that can change my mind rather than me being just clueless. I'm totally open to the most reasonable argument, and I have no personal attachment to GL, or an axe to grind elsewhere either.
englishman
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11/24/2012 3:21pm
englishman wrote:
Doc I like your posts, you are more often than not a voice of reason around here but , in this case, you have absolutely no...
Doc I like your posts, you are more often than not a voice of reason around here but , in this case, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about .
DrSweden wrote:
Well, even the sun has spots. :lol: But quite honestly, this thread and the many others negative ones (from a few) is for me really just...
Well, even the sun has spots. Grinning But quite honestly, this thread and the many others negative ones (from a few) is for me really just spitting. Honestly I crave for some facts based discussion, exemplified with some victims, or whatever spec that would be a solid ground for a better alternative. Some needs to weight up the huge amount of bitterness. All I hear is GL is a dick, which by now should be attached to something other than he's an greedy dick.

I really wonder what's going on with Kongols, usually when people are THAT upset, they have some personal suffering feeding their frustration, maybe something is going on with Kegums, and him seeing the cost they are paying or something? Meanwhile we in Sweden most likely have a similar agreement, and I just think people are happy the event is still running?

Maybe the European scene is not able to produce as many good riders because of a new era, lack of interested rather than GL by some magical influence is halting progress on the may local tracks all over Europe.

I see the Swedish GP as often as I can, and ALL the best riders we have get a shot via the wild cards etc, this year we had 10 guys qualifying, while just 1 ending up top 20. In what other scenario would that change? How is GL to blame for that? If we had 8 of them doing top ten on home soil, maybe the gates would be more stacked the next race? I mean who is to blame for the lack of quality riders from each country?

Feel free to add some valid info that can change my mind rather than me being just clueless. I'm totally open to the most reasonable argument, and I have no personal attachment to GL, or an axe to grind elsewhere either.
All I can say is what the team managers say in public is not what they say in private. And the odd manager that really does promote YS in public does so because of financial reasons dating back several years.

I have seen the "Contracts" written between the FIM & YS , I've seen the structure of YS and it's board of directors and I doubt very much that if they were examined by qualified lawyers that they would prove to be legal .
TFS
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11/24/2012 3:26pm
englishman wrote:
All I can say is what the team managers say in public is not what they say in private. And the odd manager that really does...
All I can say is what the team managers say in public is not what they say in private. And the odd manager that really does promote YS in public does so because of financial reasons dating back several years.

I have seen the "Contracts" written between the FIM & YS , I've seen the structure of YS and it's board of directors and I doubt very much that if they were examined by qualified lawyers that they would prove to be legal .
Your rubbish sounds like like a logical fallacy called "begging for authority." (I saw something big and you didnt't so you should believe me...)

I say yer full of shit!
steed 2.0
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11/24/2012 3:33pm
englishman wrote:
All I can say is what the team managers say in public is not what they say in private. And the odd manager that really does...
All I can say is what the team managers say in public is not what they say in private. And the odd manager that really does promote YS in public does so because of financial reasons dating back several years.

I have seen the "Contracts" written between the FIM & YS , I've seen the structure of YS and it's board of directors and I doubt very much that if they were examined by qualified lawyers that they would prove to be legal .
the whole plan is to make GP mainstream tv worthy (whether it succeeds is another story) give it the benefit of the doubt
3 hours MX is great for hardcore fans but not realistic average attention span isnt that long
the lang term goal is TV channels go pay for broadcasting (thats why international races etc)
MotoGP startgrid reduced by half 2009 was bottom low 18 riders
flapper
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11/24/2012 3:59pm
There will never be change in the GP's to help the privateer scene because the factory guys will not take a stand ,or really voice their opinions. There has been a little of that,but most of them realize that they have everything paid for and get paid to race and are not willing to forfeit that,especially with the state of the economy overseas. Lounge does not give a shit about anything but the big teams becaus ether pay for everything.

That's the diff between American Mx and the Gp's,in America DC realizes that without the privateers there is no show,so he tries to make things work for everyone the best he can. Luongo does not give a shit how his show really looks to people as long as he is keeping his main payers. ( the factories) happy!
ATKpilot99
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11/24/2012 4:32pm
Well look at the bright side...he's only got what, another 13 years to toy with the formula to get it right? Laughing
englishman
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11/24/2012 4:34pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 4:35pm
TFS wrote:
Your rubbish sounds like like a logical fallacy called "begging for authority." (I saw something big and you didnt't so you should believe me...) I say...
Your rubbish sounds like like a logical fallacy called "begging for authority." (I saw something big and you didnt't so you should believe me...)

I say yer full of shit!
Do you ? Well done you.
steed 2.0
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11/24/2012 4:47pm
flapper wrote:
There will never be change in the GP's to help the privateer scene because the factory guys will not take a stand ,or really voice their...
There will never be change in the GP's to help the privateer scene because the factory guys will not take a stand ,or really voice their opinions. There has been a little of that,but most of them realize that they have everything paid for and get paid to race and are not willing to forfeit that,especially with the state of the economy overseas. Lounge does not give a shit about anything but the big teams becaus ether pay for everything.

That's the diff between American Mx and the Gp's,in America DC realizes that without the privateers there is no show,so he tries to make things work for everyone the best he can. Luongo does not give a shit how his show really looks to people as long as he is keeping his main payers. ( the factories) happy!
how many US privateers would make an overseas trip?
you compare apples to oranges, national to international, semi-professional to professional
no room for priveteers anymore, take it or leave it (same happend in motoGP during the 80's look where they are now)

No one is forced (market decides) European privateers have their own national championship
Paul333
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11/24/2012 4:54pm
I don't really care how many "Local Riders" attend a GP.

For most of the GP series that is a joke.

BUT, if YS is going to have these races on the other side of the planet they should pay travel, start money, a good purse, and stop charging riders big money to be the show.

At least then they would have a race. A true 40 man per moto with "GP" riders race.

The problem is YS has figured out it's cheaper to just half-ass bait the top 15 to attend and forget the rest.
DrSweden
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11/24/2012 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 5:08pm
englishman wrote:
All I can say is what the team managers say in public is not what they say in private. And the odd manager that really does...
All I can say is what the team managers say in public is not what they say in private. And the odd manager that really does promote YS in public does so because of financial reasons dating back several years.

I have seen the "Contracts" written between the FIM & YS , I've seen the structure of YS and it's board of directors and I doubt very much that if they were examined by qualified lawyers that they would prove to be legal .
Once again I got jack to my questions, and I'm supposed to change my doubts based on what exactly? Sign up with a different name, if "Englishman" is some Donny Brasco, and the mob is after you, or just spill the beans. Make figurative names, cook something up that makes a case for us doubters, I'm all ears.

I'm sure people are frustrated to some degree, we all are at times, but when there's a company, a ruler running all emperor Nero on us, one should have something more than this GL is douche? Where are the hundreds of victims of some sort, racers, team owners willing to voice their trauma? Even people from Syria, Iran are able to spit things out, but actually risking their lives, and all I get: we might have a racing organization that has flaw in it's legal structure? Is that the reason the gates isn't filled with enough talent?

It's like Big frustrations towards KTM, no facts, just "they suck". Mkay...
englishman
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11/24/2012 5:02pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 5:04pm
No, I'm sure you and TFS are right and I don't know what I'm talking about - well done carry on.
steed 2.0
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11/24/2012 5:04pm
if you can't pay the fee GP's are above your weight
DrSweden
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11/24/2012 5:20pm
englishman wrote:
No, I'm sure you and TFS are right and I don't know what I'm talking about - well done carry on.
Sarcasm doesn't work in your favor. All I have been asking for is for you to come up with something, instead of this "just beleive me", some of the employment procedure in the org migth not be legal, I mean If you are so damn certain, how hard can it be? Give me something other than nothing.

It's like you guys see hundreds of top 10 guys lying in fetus position somewhere, or Eurosport offering free airtime, but they all got the finger because GL just felt for it?
TFS
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11/24/2012 7:16pm
flapper wrote:
There will never be change in the GP's to help the privateer scene because the factory guys will not take a stand ,or really voice their...
There will never be change in the GP's to help the privateer scene because the factory guys will not take a stand ,or really voice their opinions. There has been a little of that,but most of them realize that they have everything paid for and get paid to race and are not willing to forfeit that,especially with the state of the economy overseas. Lounge does not give a shit about anything but the big teams becaus ether pay for everything.

That's the diff between American Mx and the Gp's,in America DC realizes that without the privateers there is no show,so he tries to make things work for everyone the best he can. Luongo does not give a shit how his show really looks to people as long as he is keeping his main payers. ( the factories) happy!
Yeah, GL is looking at SX which fits the same description. SX only need enough riders for a show. They don't do privateer development, they leave that to MX.

But if American SX is so good at bringing up the core of the sport, why do they keep going to the GPs to recruit factory riders? Smile
The Rock
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11/24/2012 7:47pm
kongols wrote:
For a journalist you should be ashamed of this post. Here is a hint- put together my location and GP calendar, perhaps you can come up...
For a journalist you should be ashamed of this post. Here is a hint- put together my location and GP calendar, perhaps you can come up with an answer.
Point noted and well taken it was lame for me to be in a rush and not research where you're from.

Now that we have that out of the way did you go to the GP? If so what was your impression.
kongols
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11/24/2012 8:02pm
The Rock wrote:
Point noted and well taken it was lame for me to be in a rush and not research where you're from. Now that we have that...
Point noted and well taken it was lame for me to be in a rush and not research where you're from.

Now that we have that out of the way did you go to the GP? If so what was your impression.
It was worst than it was a year before. It used to be a lot of locals trying it but this year nobody bothered to pay Luongo anymore. I`d say it`s on a decline and if you ask me I doubt there will be GP of Latvia after MXDN 2014. It felt fake.
steed 2.0
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11/24/2012 8:19pm
No room for modest clubs in the Champions League only those with the most money equals debts
However, the best players always play in the Champions League never the modest, guess what Motocross isnt any different

What are we free market Capitalists or everyone equally communists?
Life isnt FAIR get over it ASAP make your own luck by screwing others why you don't
good boys go to heaven bad boys be rich purgatory isnt that bad at least if you're Catholic after all why choose a tough religion in the first place they all promise the same
when your women is ugly you did something wrong its just a matter of choice probably she's good hearted woman otherwise you're double screwed, success is a choice
DiD I Piss You Off? well you know why don't blame me
kongols
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11/24/2012 8:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 8:24pm
steed 2.0 wrote:
No room for modest clubs in the Champions League only those with the most money equals debts However, the best players always play in the Champions...
No room for modest clubs in the Champions League only those with the most money equals debts
However, the best players always play in the Champions League never the modest, guess what Motocross isnt any different

What are we free market Capitalists or everyone equally communists?
Life isnt FAIR get over it ASAP make your own luck by screwing others why you don't
good boys go to heaven bad boys be rich purgatory isnt that bad at least if you're Catholic after all why choose a tough religion in the first place they all promise the same
when your women is ugly you did something wrong its just a matter of choice probably she's good hearted woman otherwise you're double screwed, success is a choice
DiD I Piss You Off? well you know why don't blame me
Latvians racing in GP are not the fastest latvians(except Karro). You don`t have to be fastest to race GP`s.

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