Gaza

FastEddy
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11/21/2012 10:15am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 10:20am
Racer92 wrote:
Thats good info, thanks. Looks like a small handful of Jews squabbling at fellow Jews. I looked up that Chabad stuff, doesnt look like anti-muslim stuff...
Thats good info, thanks. Looks like a small handful of Jews squabbling at fellow Jews. I looked up that Chabad stuff, doesnt look like anti-muslim stuff at a glance - but I will read more on that.

I was wondering about major stuff, Jews-wanting-to-kill-all-Muslim groups. I dont see many guys with a yamaka dragging dead arab bodies in the streets or strapping bombs on kids.
"I was wondering about major stuff, Jews-wanting-to-kill-all-Muslim groups. I dont see many guys with a yamaka dragging dead arab bodies in the streets or strapping bombs on kids."

That's not how they supposedly operate.
Some would say they use our foreign policy and have infiltrated the US Government with an agenda against Islam.
That is what the people in the Mid East believe.
You see what I'm saying?
It all goes hand & hand with them....on what they believe.
It's delusional conspiracy shit.

And even some of their own extremists type groups believe in it.
They take case by case situations and turn them into something as a propaganda sort.
The Rock
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11/21/2012 10:26am
Racer92 wrote:
You are correct, Ive never been to the middle east. Ive also never been to Germany but I know Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews, too...
You are correct, Ive never been to the middle east. Ive also never been to Germany but I know Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews, too.

Can you please direct me to the website or any literature where a Jewish group or Jewish people are calling for genocide of all Muslims? I guess I missed it somehow, and need to be educated how blood thirsty they are. Seriously, enlighten a dumb Texakin please.
I am self employed and teaching Middle East politics is not one of my jobs but will say Hamas doesn't represent all Muslims. Only suggestion I have is you can go to www.bbc.com for news and not only American news sources if you want to see a broader perspective on this conflict.

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.
Racer92
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11/21/2012 10:29am
Thanks for the info, have a great holiday too.
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 10:35am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 10:47am
This is a general documentary on Gaza.
It's worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.
https://youtu.be/ohSO_MGNw1Q

On a side note...
This one here is on Pakistan...touches on a few different things regarding US policy and how they view us & support the terrorists. It's also well worth a watch.
https://youtu.be/6_SkNUorWhc

There is also a ton of stuff out there on Zionist so-called plots & agendas against the world & Muslims and a million different takes & scenarios on it. It's crazy. All the way down 911 being provoked or possibly funded by Israel.
To stuff like this... http://wikispooks.com/wiki/9/11:Israel_did_it
or this http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j030802.html
It's insane.

Here is ''The Bases'' spokesman.
Read Adams background and who his grandfather was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn
Crazy huh?

The Shop

PaleBlue
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11/21/2012 10:36am
Racer92 wrote:
You are correct, Ive never been to the middle east. Ive also never been to Germany but I know Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews, too...
You are correct, Ive never been to the middle east. Ive also never been to Germany but I know Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews, too.

Can you please direct me to the website or any literature where a Jewish group or Jewish people are calling for genocide of all Muslims? I guess I missed it somehow, and need to be educated how blood thirsty they are. Seriously, enlighten a dumb Texakin please.
The Rock wrote:
I am self employed and teaching Middle East politics is not one of my jobs but will say Hamas doesn't represent all Muslims. Only suggestion I...
I am self employed and teaching Middle East politics is not one of my jobs but will say Hamas doesn't represent all Muslims. Only suggestion I have is you can go to www.bbc.com for news and not only American news sources if you want to see a broader perspective on this conflict.

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.
As a Brit, I was just wondering what sort of news all of you Americans are exposed to, since it seems from what;s been posted here, by you all ( except Rock) Isreal = good, Palistineans = BAD, period.
The rest of the world gets a more balanced outlook and all I can say that a race that has been as badly persecuted as the Jews, should know better. Their treatment of Arabs within Israel has overtones of the early days of the Nazis.
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 10:43am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 10:43am
PaleBlue wrote:
As a Brit, I was just wondering what sort of news all of you Americans are exposed to, since it seems from what;s been posted here...
As a Brit, I was just wondering what sort of news all of you Americans are exposed to, since it seems from what;s been posted here, by you all ( except Rock) Isreal = good, Palistineans = BAD, period.
The rest of the world gets a more balanced outlook and all I can say that a race that has been as badly persecuted as the Jews, should know better. Their treatment of Arabs within Israel has overtones of the early days of the Nazis.
Our news is heavily influenced by the political powers that control it....msnbc,cnn & fox....they never tell the whole story.
BBC is good same with Al Jazeera and so is Stratfor for Intel.
Barrett57
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11/21/2012 10:53am
If you can find it, the ross kemp episodes on Israel and palestine are pretty good.

I'm looking, but i can't seem to find it. Ross Kemp does some really intresting documentarys.
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 10:57am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 10:57am
Barrett57 wrote:
If you can find it, the ross kemp episodes on Israel and palestine are pretty good. I'm looking, but i can't seem to find it. Ross...
If you can find it, the ross kemp episodes on Israel and palestine are pretty good.

I'm looking, but i can't seem to find it. Ross Kemp does some really intresting documentarys.
You try checking on these sites...seen some Ross Kemp stuff them in the past.
http://www.fastpasstv.ms
http://watchseries.eu
http://documentaryheaven.com
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com
musmanni
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11/21/2012 11:23am
musmanni wrote:
It's not just the Muslims who dislike Israel. Most of the world is slowly increasing their, dislike in some areas and hate in others, for Israel...
It's not just the Muslims who dislike Israel. Most of the world is slowly increasing their, dislike in some areas and hate in others, for Israel. It happens from time to time, such as Nazi Germany.

I see bad times for Israel in the next few decades.

I'm not promoting any actions against anybody, this is just the pattern I see.
Racer92 wrote:
So what do you think will be happening "in the next few decades" since we are supposedly an ally to Israel ?
I can't predict what will exactly happen, but the anti-Israel sentiment, not anti Jew, is rising all over the world. Even some Jews outside of Israel are distancing themselves from Israel.

More Christians visit Israel than Jews.

The US seriously disliked Jews before WWII, it was common for US Presidents to bash them. This whole, support the Jews, thing is realitively new, but seems to be reversing more and more each year. Nothing lasts forever, which includes US support for Israel.
vet323
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11/21/2012 11:36am
PaleBlue wrote:
As a Brit, I was just wondering what sort of news all of you Americans are exposed to, since it seems from what;s been posted here...
As a Brit, I was just wondering what sort of news all of you Americans are exposed to, since it seems from what;s been posted here, by you all ( except Rock) Isreal = good, Palistineans = BAD, period.
The rest of the world gets a more balanced outlook and all I can say that a race that has been as badly persecuted as the Jews, should know better. Their treatment of Arabs within Israel has overtones of the early days of the Nazis.
Their treatment of Arabs within Israel has overtones of the early days of the Nazis.

How many Arabs are in the Knesset? Are there as many as the Jews had in Nazi Germany?
11/21/2012 11:58am
Racer92 wrote:
Thats good info, thanks. Looks like a small handful of Jews squabbling at fellow Jews. I looked up that Chabad stuff, doesnt look like anti-muslim stuff...
Thats good info, thanks. Looks like a small handful of Jews squabbling at fellow Jews. I looked up that Chabad stuff, doesnt look like anti-muslim stuff at a glance - but I will read more on that.

I was wondering about major stuff, Jews-wanting-to-kill-all-Muslim groups. I dont see many guys with a yamaka dragging dead arab bodies in the streets or strapping bombs on kids.
FastEddy wrote:
[i]"I was wondering about major stuff, Jews-wanting-to-kill-all-Muslim groups. I dont see many guys with a yamaka dragging dead arab bodies in the streets or strapping bombs...
"I was wondering about major stuff, Jews-wanting-to-kill-all-Muslim groups. I dont see many guys with a yamaka dragging dead arab bodies in the streets or strapping bombs on kids."

That's not how they supposedly operate.
Some would say they use our foreign policy and have infiltrated the US Government with an agenda against Islam.
That is what the people in the Mid East believe.
You see what I'm saying?
It all goes hand & hand with them....on what they believe.
It's delusional conspiracy shit.

And even some of their own extremists type groups believe in it.
They take case by case situations and turn them into something as a propaganda sort.
Its kinda hard to dismiss it entirely as "delusional conspiracy shit" when its pretty much how it appears to be going down.

I dont have a dog in the fight. Im not Jewish, Im not a Muslim. I only see it from the outside looking in. And with that said, it's pretty hard to give Israel a free pass when the USA is about the only country on their side. That is a bad sign right there.
11/21/2012 12:03pm
Racer92 wrote:
You are correct, Ive never been to the middle east. Ive also never been to Germany but I know Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews, too...
You are correct, Ive never been to the middle east. Ive also never been to Germany but I know Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews, too.

Can you please direct me to the website or any literature where a Jewish group or Jewish people are calling for genocide of all Muslims? I guess I missed it somehow, and need to be educated how blood thirsty they are. Seriously, enlighten a dumb Texakin please.
The Rock wrote:
I am self employed and teaching Middle East politics is not one of my jobs but will say Hamas doesn't represent all Muslims. Only suggestion I...
I am self employed and teaching Middle East politics is not one of my jobs but will say Hamas doesn't represent all Muslims. Only suggestion I have is you can go to www.bbc.com for news and not only American news sources if you want to see a broader perspective on this conflict.

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.
PaleBlue wrote:
As a Brit, I was just wondering what sort of news all of you Americans are exposed to, since it seems from what;s been posted here...
As a Brit, I was just wondering what sort of news all of you Americans are exposed to, since it seems from what;s been posted here, by you all ( except Rock) Isreal = good, Palistineans = BAD, period.
The rest of the world gets a more balanced outlook and all I can say that a race that has been as badly persecuted as the Jews, should know better. Their treatment of Arabs within Israel has overtones of the early days of the Nazis.
I think you know the answer to the question you seek.

We have a VERY partial media. We are shown only what we are supposed to be shown, from angles that always help steer an agenda.

The entertainment industry is pretty much ran by the Jewish community. It doesnt "take Columbo" to figure that one out. The only people that side with Israel are either Jewish people here, or people who still think our heavily biased media is telling us the whole story.

No news is ever impartial. But when you travel around the world constantly and you get to see the VARIOUS angles of the same story by different media outlets, its a real eye opener. And in my opinion, our American media is about as non-credible as it gets.

Youre better off getting your info from a forum board like this than turning on CNN. At least with this, there isnt a program director manipulating things and the people in this forum, while they may have agendas or biases, are not hidden. We at least have a basic idea of who we are talking to here and their integrity based on the years of banter back and forth.
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 12:11pm
Its kinda hard to dismiss it entirely as "delusional conspiracy shit" when its pretty much how it appears to be going down. I dont have a...
Its kinda hard to dismiss it entirely as "delusional conspiracy shit" when its pretty much how it appears to be going down.

I dont have a dog in the fight. Im not Jewish, Im not a Muslim. I only see it from the outside looking in. And with that said, it's pretty hard to give Israel a free pass when the USA is about the only country on their side. That is a bad sign right there.
In a sense you are right...
But, here is the thing.
It's not the common Jewish folks,it's a small group considered to be Zionist Elite types.
But what happens is these people believe it's all the Jews and America is supporting them against them,that's their conspiracy/delusions.
You do have Zionist Elite types with close ties that influence foreign policy to a certain degree to where it is fishy indeed.
But it is pretty much the Elite in general.... But I don't think the common Jewish folks should be blamed for that.
They're every day ordinary citizens....just like you & I that have no real say in anything.They just want to live peacefully.
The Rock
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11/21/2012 1:41pm
Racer92 wrote:
Thanks for the info, have a great holiday too.
One more thing:

MIddle East politics are like chess not checkers. You have to look a step or two ahead or behind to put the current event into perspective. Case in point one could ask why would Hamas poke the sleeping giant (Israel) when they don't have a prayer of "winning?"

You have to look at the Palestinian statehood movement for an explanation. Hamas (which was originally funded by Israel as a counter balance to the PLO) has always been willing to use their people as cannon fodder to build their case in the court of world opinion. In this case being pummeled by Israel will only help build the Pals case for statehood.

If you remember Hamas has been "good" for several years now especially since winning control over Gaza in elections that the US pressed for but then promptly disavowed once Hamas took the majority of the election. In the interim splinter groups have sprouted up and have been the ones firing rockets up until recently. Hamas is some eyes was started to be viewed as weak and complacent but this recent flexing of muscles has fortified Hamas' standing as the leaders of the Gazan people.

Meanwhile over in the West Bank Abbas' stature has diminished as he continues to take a more moderate stance and is a willing partner for peace with the US.

Hamas and Abbas' Fatah movement forming a unity agreement within the last couple of years had to be a sign of Abbas' frustration over the US's refusal to advance his causes like holding the Israelis to their settlement moratorium.....which was lifted I think back at the beginning of the year.

To me the most interesting thing of this year is Syria imploding and the Israelis having nothing to do with it. Netanyahu has to be pleased.
burn1986
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11/21/2012 1:55pm
Hamas is lucky they didn't shoot a missle at the United States, they would have gotten a pretty good "verbal counseling" from Obama.
11/21/2012 2:17pm
Both sides have extremists, the difference is that in Palestine's case (as with many of the surrounding Muslim countries) the extremists are in charge, they are the authorities, they dictate the policy. Israel has screwed up and made mistakes - they do inadvertently kill innocent people. But it is NOT Israeli policy to wipe out the Palestinian people or Muslims in general. They do go to great lengths to prevent civilian death with every operation.

On the other hand it's an openly stated policy of Hamas to drive every Jew, every man women and child out of Israel and into the sea. The more innocent people they kill, the better. That's the way they look at it and that's pretty much their own words.

Lets be practical, it's damn near impossible to expect any peace talks or processes to work under those circumstances. I honestly can't think of any country (maybe someone can??) that wouldn't defend itself and do what Israel has done in that situation.

On a side note - neither would I call the BBC any less unbiased over this subject. Generally all media outlets are biased to one agenda or the other.
vet323
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11/21/2012 2:32pm
Israel has had nuclear weapons since probably the late 60's.

How many of you think that Israel would still be here if the Palestinians had nukes for the last 40 years?
11/21/2012 2:48pm
Both sides have extremists, the difference is that in Palestine's case (as with many of the surrounding Muslim countries) the extremists are in charge, they are...
Both sides have extremists, the difference is that in Palestine's case (as with many of the surrounding Muslim countries) the extremists are in charge, they are the authorities, they dictate the policy. Israel has screwed up and made mistakes - they do inadvertently kill innocent people. But it is NOT Israeli policy to wipe out the Palestinian people or Muslims in general. They do go to great lengths to prevent civilian death with every operation.

On the other hand it's an openly stated policy of Hamas to drive every Jew, every man women and child out of Israel and into the sea. The more innocent people they kill, the better. That's the way they look at it and that's pretty much their own words.

Lets be practical, it's damn near impossible to expect any peace talks or processes to work under those circumstances. I honestly can't think of any country (maybe someone can??) that wouldn't defend itself and do what Israel has done in that situation.

On a side note - neither would I call the BBC any less unbiased over this subject. Generally all media outlets are biased to one agenda or the other.
The Muslims are the only ones with extremists in charge? I guess it depends on which side of the fence you are on. Many feel George W was as wacko as all the rest.

Just because our countries/cultures religion is capitalism doesnt mean we are immune to having our own extremists at the top.
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 2:50pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 2:59pm
vet323 wrote:
Israel has had nuclear weapons since probably the late 60's. How many of you think that Israel would still be here if the Palestinians had nukes...
Israel has had nuclear weapons since probably the late 60's.

How many of you think that Israel would still be here if the Palestinians had nukes for the last 40 years?
If the Palestinians had nukes,both Israel & Palestinian wouldn't be there anymore I would assume.
However, I'm pretty certain Palestinian would launch first.
"We paid for them,we're gonna use them ALLAHU AKBAR!" lol

Dear Hamas,that's why you cant have nice things.
11/21/2012 3:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 3:13pm
Its kinda hard to dismiss it entirely as "delusional conspiracy shit" when its pretty much how it appears to be going down. I dont have a...
Its kinda hard to dismiss it entirely as "delusional conspiracy shit" when its pretty much how it appears to be going down.

I dont have a dog in the fight. Im not Jewish, Im not a Muslim. I only see it from the outside looking in. And with that said, it's pretty hard to give Israel a free pass when the USA is about the only country on their side. That is a bad sign right there.
FastEddy wrote:
In a sense you are right... But, here is the thing. It's not the common Jewish folks,it's a small group considered to be Zionist Elite types...
In a sense you are right...
But, here is the thing.
It's not the common Jewish folks,it's a small group considered to be Zionist Elite types.
But what happens is these people believe it's all the Jews and America is supporting them against them,that's their conspiracy/delusions.
You do have Zionist Elite types with close ties that influence foreign policy to a certain degree to where it is fishy indeed.
But it is pretty much the Elite in general.... But I don't think the common Jewish folks should be blamed for that.
They're every day ordinary citizens....just like you & I that have no real say in anything.They just want to live peacefully.
How is it their citizens arent held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect?

I dont see ours or there military forces filled with Elites children. Its the sons and daughters of the common man. In other words, we are arming the elites. Both of us are. All parties, good or bad, right or wrong.

When the American military invades another country, it always does so on our behalf. It does so in the "name" of American values and rights. So when its time to pay the piper, why wouldnt our own seemingly citizens be a target? The same can be said for Israel.

I agree with you, there is a definite difference between the common man and the elites of the world. But innocent we are not. The queen bee is nothing without the hive.

If the common Jewish folks want to not be held accountable for the acts of the Zionists Elites, they need to separate themselves from that group entirely. That means common Jew folk no longer blindly supporting Israel every time there is a conflict.

Same goes for an American citizen. If a blackhawk heli goes down, and you could care less, then you can honestly consider yourself somewhat neutral and innocent. But as long as we common citizens are rooting for our soldiers and are all benefiting from our foreign policies and paying taxes it's pretty difficult to say any of us are irresponsible to some degree.
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 3:38pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 4:05pm
How is it their citizens arent held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect? I dont see ours or there military...
How is it their citizens arent held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect?

I dont see ours or there military forces filled with Elites children. Its the sons and daughters of the common man. In other words, we are arming the elites. Both of us are. All parties, good or bad, right or wrong.

When the American military invades another country, it always does so on our behalf. It does so in the "name" of American values and rights. So when its time to pay the piper, why wouldnt our own seemingly citizens be a target? The same can be said for Israel.

I agree with you, there is a definite difference between the common man and the elites of the world. But innocent we are not. The queen bee is nothing without the hive.

If the common Jewish folks want to not be held accountable for the acts of the Zionists Elites, they need to separate themselves from that group entirely. That means common Jew folk no longer blindly supporting Israel every time there is a conflict.

Same goes for an American citizen. If a blackhawk heli goes down, and you could care less, then you can honestly consider yourself somewhat neutral and innocent. But as long as we common citizens are rooting for our soldiers and are all benefiting from our foreign policies and paying taxes it's pretty difficult to say any of us are irresponsible to some degree.
"How is it their citizens aren't held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect?"

It's pretty simple ,they have a Government just as we do who has separated itself.
The people have no say.... Elections are a joke at every level in this country & many other countries.
If you think for one minute things like the destabilization of countries for corporate purposes is something we as the people support ,then you would be wrong. But if we fight them (the Government),we indeed are labeled terrorists. Tim McVeigh would be a good example as someone who targeted FBI policy on US soil and ultimately changed it with lots of casualties/deaths of innocent civilians. 10,000 of him operating on this soil would change things drastically. But no one is willing to go that route and that is the only thing that would change things.

I dont see ours or there military forces filled with Elites children. Its the sons and daughters of the common man. In other words, we are arming the elites. Both of us are. All parties, good or bad, right or wrong.

People want to serve their nation for whatever reasons (there are many) and also use it as a career choice.
Most have no clue as to what goes on behind closed doors,what the CIA & Mossad are up to...or why they are fighting.
Our military preaches FREEDOM,LIBERATE,DEMOCRACY,they believe that is what they are fighting for!
Not Global Power,Oil,Big Business.
We go & liberate countries who we very well know cannot run smoothly under democracy.
We're infamous for that. But it all boils down to Big Business.


When the American military invades another country, it always does so on our behalf.

Not on my behalf it doesn't. lol
Maybe on Kissinger's!


It does so in the "name" of American values and rights. So when its time to pay the piper, why wouldnt our own seemingly citizens be a target? The same can be said for Israel.

The Federal Government does it in the name of their own agendas and agendas of the elite....I think most people know that.
They have always had their plans post WWII and the citizens aren't part of them.
Nor is our safety,or else US policies would be what they are.


"Agree with you, there is a definite difference between the common man and the elites of the world. But innocent we are not. The queen bee is nothing without the hive."

The people could up rise...
But,they would be fighting a battle they couldn't win standing up to the Federal Government. A few men cannot do very much against the Federal Government.You will find very few who would call for revolution that would be willing die on this soil.
Most modern Americans are afraid of death...they want to avoid it by any means possible.
They don't want war on this soil.So they would rather take it up the ass from the government or take part in a meaningless election over seen by a kangaroo court system.


"If the common Jewish folks want to not be held accountable for the acts of the Zionists Elites, they need to separate themselves from that group entirely. That means common Jew folk no longer blindly supporting Israel every time there is a conflict."


Their going to do what they have to do. Their military takes orders just as our troops do.

Same goes for an American citizen. If a blackhawk heli goes down, and you could care less, then you can honestly consider yourself somewhat neutral and innocent. But as long as we are all benefiting from our foreign policies and paying taxes it's pretty difficult to say any of us are irresponsible to some degree.

Corporate taxes fund our Military....
Personally I feel foreign policies are a joke...and we should not be in other countries.
The elite is why foreign policies even exist in this day & age.
It's all about global control & business.

We just happen to live here.
The US Government & it's agencies runs around the World poking bees nests and we as the citizens get stung in a sense.
I don't feel that is right. Same could be said with the Zionist Elite.
But what do you do about it to get immediate change/put a stop to it?
The Rock
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11/21/2012 3:53pm
Both sides have extremists, the difference is that in Palestine's case (as with many of the surrounding Muslim countries) the extremists are in charge, they are...
Both sides have extremists, the difference is that in Palestine's case (as with many of the surrounding Muslim countries) the extremists are in charge, they are the authorities, they dictate the policy. Israel has screwed up and made mistakes - they do inadvertently kill innocent people. But it is NOT Israeli policy to wipe out the Palestinian people or Muslims in general. They do go to great lengths to prevent civilian death with every operation.

On the other hand it's an openly stated policy of Hamas to drive every Jew, every man women and child out of Israel and into the sea. The more innocent people they kill, the better. That's the way they look at it and that's pretty much their own words.

Lets be practical, it's damn near impossible to expect any peace talks or processes to work under those circumstances. I honestly can't think of any country (maybe someone can??) that wouldn't defend itself and do what Israel has done in that situation.

On a side note - neither would I call the BBC any less unbiased over this subject. Generally all media outlets are biased to one agenda or the other.
Peace talks with who? Abbas who heads up Fatah based in the West Bank is a moderate. His reward to date has been hanging in the wind since the US caved and let Israel resume the settlement construction.

Hamas doesn't represent all of the Palestinian people only the Gazans
. Given the lack of progress Abbas has been able to make being a dove don't be surprised if Hamas one day controls both Gaza and the West Bank.
11/21/2012 4:28pm
How is it their citizens arent held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect? I dont see ours or there military...
How is it their citizens arent held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect?

I dont see ours or there military forces filled with Elites children. Its the sons and daughters of the common man. In other words, we are arming the elites. Both of us are. All parties, good or bad, right or wrong.

When the American military invades another country, it always does so on our behalf. It does so in the "name" of American values and rights. So when its time to pay the piper, why wouldnt our own seemingly citizens be a target? The same can be said for Israel.

I agree with you, there is a definite difference between the common man and the elites of the world. But innocent we are not. The queen bee is nothing without the hive.

If the common Jewish folks want to not be held accountable for the acts of the Zionists Elites, they need to separate themselves from that group entirely. That means common Jew folk no longer blindly supporting Israel every time there is a conflict.

Same goes for an American citizen. If a blackhawk heli goes down, and you could care less, then you can honestly consider yourself somewhat neutral and innocent. But as long as we common citizens are rooting for our soldiers and are all benefiting from our foreign policies and paying taxes it's pretty difficult to say any of us are irresponsible to some degree.
FastEddy wrote:
[i]"How is it their citizens aren't held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect?"[/i] It's pretty simple ,they have a Government...
"How is it their citizens aren't held responsible? Arent we ourselves ultimately responsible for the corrupt leaders we elect?"

It's pretty simple ,they have a Government just as we do who has separated itself.
The people have no say.... Elections are a joke at every level in this country & many other countries.
If you think for one minute things like the destabilization of countries for corporate purposes is something we as the people support ,then you would be wrong. But if we fight them (the Government),we indeed are labeled terrorists. Tim McVeigh would be a good example as someone who targeted FBI policy on US soil and ultimately changed it with lots of casualties/deaths of innocent civilians. 10,000 of him operating on this soil would change things drastically. But no one is willing to go that route and that is the only thing that would change things.

I dont see ours or there military forces filled with Elites children. Its the sons and daughters of the common man. In other words, we are arming the elites. Both of us are. All parties, good or bad, right or wrong.

People want to serve their nation for whatever reasons (there are many) and also use it as a career choice.
Most have no clue as to what goes on behind closed doors,what the CIA & Mossad are up to...or why they are fighting.
Our military preaches FREEDOM,LIBERATE,DEMOCRACY,they believe that is what they are fighting for!
Not Global Power,Oil,Big Business.
We go & liberate countries who we very well know cannot run smoothly under democracy.
We're infamous for that. But it all boils down to Big Business.


When the American military invades another country, it always does so on our behalf.

Not on my behalf it doesn't. lol
Maybe on Kissinger's!


It does so in the "name" of American values and rights. So when its time to pay the piper, why wouldnt our own seemingly citizens be a target? The same can be said for Israel.

The Federal Government does it in the name of their own agendas and agendas of the elite....I think most people know that.
They have always had their plans post WWII and the citizens aren't part of them.
Nor is our safety,or else US policies would be what they are.


"Agree with you, there is a definite difference between the common man and the elites of the world. But innocent we are not. The queen bee is nothing without the hive."

The people could up rise...
But,they would be fighting a battle they couldn't win standing up to the Federal Government. A few men cannot do very much against the Federal Government.You will find very few who would call for revolution that would be willing die on this soil.
Most modern Americans are afraid of death...they want to avoid it by any means possible.
They don't want war on this soil.So they would rather take it up the ass from the government or take part in a meaningless election over seen by a kangaroo court system.


"If the common Jewish folks want to not be held accountable for the acts of the Zionists Elites, they need to separate themselves from that group entirely. That means common Jew folk no longer blindly supporting Israel every time there is a conflict."


Their going to do what they have to do. Their military takes orders just as our troops do.

Same goes for an American citizen. If a blackhawk heli goes down, and you could care less, then you can honestly consider yourself somewhat neutral and innocent. But as long as we are all benefiting from our foreign policies and paying taxes it's pretty difficult to say any of us are irresponsible to some degree.

Corporate taxes fund our Military....
Personally I feel foreign policies are a joke...and we should not be in other countries.
The elite is why foreign policies even exist in this day & age.
It's all about global control & business.

We just happen to live here.
The US Government & it's agencies runs around the World poking bees nests and we as the citizens get stung in a sense.
I don't feel that is right. Same could be said with the Zionist Elite.
But what do you do about it to get immediate change/put a stop to it?
It's not that you and I dont agree. We see very eye to eye on all the stuff you posted.


The difference is, Im not going to absolve any common citizen. The bullshit wont stop until we force it too. Youre dead right in how you see it needing to be done, and youre dead right in why it wont happen. But that doesnt mean that just because we are all too scared of death that we shouldnt be held accountable.

Other than that, I agree with everything youve said.
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 4:57pm
It's not that you and I dont agree. We see very eye to eye on all the stuff you posted. The difference is, Im not going...
It's not that you and I dont agree. We see very eye to eye on all the stuff you posted.


The difference is, Im not going to absolve any common citizen. The bullshit wont stop until we force it too. Youre dead right in how you see it needing to be done, and youre dead right in why it wont happen. But that doesnt mean that just because we are all too scared of death that we shouldnt be held accountable.

Other than that, I agree with everything youve said.
Yeah.
I understand where you are coming from.
But if you were to take the Elite & Government out of the picture that is how wars are won.
Not necessarily against the civilians that go about their day to day lives.

Here is a little scenario.... (not nearly the exact same).
Imagine Mexico blindly launching rockets at Florida or So Cal because they are pissed that we were stopping their weed drug flow to the US and pissed about how we treat them with immigration. Now many Americans might appreciate their weed & their labor,but its the Government stopping it to control the masses.So why should they shoot at the civilians?They should go after the Government and it's influences. You see what I'm saying?Ultimately were not even pawns...just something they (The Government) milks for money & controls for their own agendas. Were kinda stuck between a rock & hard place.I would assume some Israelis feel like that also.
They just go about their day to day lives & rockets are smashing their neighborhoods all because their neighbors are upset about Government policies.
It's crazy. Smile
11/21/2012 5:16pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 5:27pm
FastEddy wrote:
Yeah. I understand where you are coming from. But if you were to take the Elite & Government out of the picture that is how wars...
Yeah.
I understand where you are coming from.
But if you were to take the Elite & Government out of the picture that is how wars are won.
Not necessarily against the civilians that go about their day to day lives.

Here is a little scenario.... (not nearly the exact same).
Imagine Mexico blindly launching rockets at Florida or So Cal because they are pissed that we were stopping their weed drug flow to the US and pissed about how we treat them with immigration. Now many Americans might appreciate their weed & their labor,but its the Government stopping it to control the masses.So why should they shoot at the civilians?They should go after the Government and it's influences. You see what I'm saying?Ultimately were not even pawns...just something they (The Government) milks for money & controls for their own agendas. Were kinda stuck between a rock & hard place.I would assume some Israelis feel like that also.
They just go about their day to day lives & rockets are smashing their neighborhoods all because their neighbors are upset about Government policies.
It's crazy. Smile
They shoot at citizens because all other cries for help go unheard. "Terrorism" is always a last ditch effort for when all other forms of communication have either broken down or been silenced. Maybe if South America started shooting rockets at us then just maybe we as a country might wake up to the attrocities going on down there on our behalf? Probably not.

It's pretty hard for the common American citizen to claim innocence with regards to South American when its the common American citizen that is the one demanding the steady supply of drugs.

Youre basically stating that even if 100% of the population woke up, then the governments/corporations would still be able to continue on arrogantly about their business? I think if just 75% of our population woke up then the establishment would be in for a rude awakening.

It's the lack of awareness that is the root of the problem IMO. That is why I wont let ignorance be an excuse. Bombings, dead children, innocent lives lost, are all just symptoms of the root issue.

This isnt the 1950s anymore. That is the last generation that could claim ignorance. Even though the bullshit with our country started with the Civil War, it was post 1950s that the cat was really out of the bag.

Nobody actually just goes about their day to day lives anymore. We medicate and stick our heads in the sand. That isnt to say we dont have help along the way, the "powers that be" definitely do everything their power to keep us in the dark, sick, and stupid. And that is where your argument has total merit. But unless you believe in the reptilians or some other far out theory, then we cannot say that the war against the elitists is unwinnable.

People like you and I are aware of what's really going on, but we still do nothing. You would argue that anything we did as individuals would be pointless and you would be correct. But still, the fact that we play along makes us technically part of the problem at the moment. I think the biggest goal as a whole that we as a society should be shooting for is that we all become aware. I think at that point, we might have a fighting chance. IMO, the root issue is the osterich syndrom. It is the reason why the wool was pulled over our countries eyes in the first place. And so its the only solution that I can reason.

People just stopped caring to know what was going on. It started when Edward R Murrow was taken off the air. And with that, I'll leave you with some of his quotes to help drive home my point...

"Difficulty is the excuse history never accepts." (in reference to anyone who thinks we cant beat the elites)

"No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices." (in reference to this thread)

The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it." (in reference to this entire forum)
FastEddy
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11/21/2012 5:32pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 5:34pm
They shoot at citizens because all other cries for help go unheard. "Terrorism" is always a last ditch effort for when all other forms of communication...
They shoot at citizens because all other cries for help go unheard. "Terrorism" is always a last ditch effort for when all other forms of communication have either broken down or been silenced. Maybe if South America started shooting rockets at us then just maybe we as a country might wake up to the attrocities going on down there on our behalf? Probably not.

It's pretty hard for the common American citizen to claim innocence with regards to South American when its the common American citizen that is the one demanding the steady supply of drugs.

Youre basically stating that even if 100% of the population woke up, then the governments/corporations would still be able to continue on arrogantly about their business? I think if just 75% of our population woke up then the establishment would be in for a rude awakening.

It's the lack of awareness that is the root of the problem IMO. That is why I wont let ignorance be an excuse. Bombings, dead children, innocent lives lost, are all just symptoms of the root issue.

This isnt the 1950s anymore. That is the last generation that could claim ignorance. Even though the bullshit with our country started with the Civil War, it was post 1950s that the cat was really out of the bag.

Nobody actually just goes about their day to day lives anymore. We medicate and stick our heads in the sand. That isnt to say we dont have help along the way, the "powers that be" definitely do everything their power to keep us in the dark, sick, and stupid. And that is where your argument has total merit. But unless you believe in the reptilians or some other far out theory, then we cannot say that the war against the elitists is unwinnable.

People like you and I are aware of what's really going on, but we still do nothing. You would argue that anything we did as individuals would be pointless and you would be correct. But still, the fact that we play along makes us technically part of the problem at the moment. I think the biggest goal as a whole that we as a society should be shooting for is that we all become aware. I think at that point, we might have a fighting chance. IMO, the root issue is the osterich syndrom. It is the reason why the wool was pulled over our countries eyes in the first place. And so its the only solution that I can reason.

People just stopped caring to know what was going on. It started when Edward R Murrow was taken off the air. And with that, I'll leave you with some of his quotes to help drive home my point...

"Difficulty is the excuse history never accepts." (in reference to anyone who thinks we cant beat the elites)

"No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices." (in reference to this thread)

The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it." (in reference to this entire forum)
I agree with mostly everything you said.

I don't know what would happen if most (75%) of the population woke up though and what other foreign governments would interfere here either. Would China or Russia or European nations ect...? Would the military back it? I mean,heck there are private Armies (world wide) the elites could hire sorta like in Iraq. That opens up a whole can of worms...that the outcome could be anything. That's another reason people do not want to venture into those waters.
11/21/2012 6:06pm
FastEddy wrote:
I agree with mostly everything you said. I don't know what would happen if most (75%) of the population woke up though and what other foreign...
I agree with mostly everything you said.

I don't know what would happen if most (75%) of the population woke up though and what other foreign governments would interfere here either. Would China or Russia or European nations ect...? Would the military back it? I mean,heck there are private Armies (world wide) the elites could hire sorta like in Iraq. That opens up a whole can of worms...that the outcome could be anything. That's another reason people do not want to venture into those waters.
That is an incredibly interesting scenario.

Say, in a highly hypothetical world, all governments were kicked to the curb. And corporations were left to hire their own private militias to carry out their dirty work on foreign soil. Chew on that for a second and all sorts of wild ideas come to mind.

Borders would cease. And it would be nearly impossible to place blame. Private covert operations would be nearly untraceable to the root employer. Crazy.

But at least cultures or "innocent" groups of people wouldnt be taking the heat for it like in the current system we have. But who knows. In this ficticious scenario the opposition wouldnt really know who the enemy was until that company had already won the battle and its contractors were setting up shop.

Funding would have to come from private sources. And this is where it would get difficult for the corporate elite. I dont know if their business model could exist without sucking off the tit of bailouts and international monetary funding sources. If they had to put the money up themselves would they be able to pull it off? Maybe so. I think if anyone did some serious digging into South America's cocaine industry and how the money is laundered (our biggest corps) then maybe it wouldnt be so hard for them to dip into their own pockets.

Six and one half a dozen if you ask me. Both scenarios seem fucked.
musmanni
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11/21/2012 7:32pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2012 7:33pm
FastEddy wrote:
I agree with mostly everything you said. I don't know what would happen if most (75%) of the population woke up though and what other foreign...
I agree with mostly everything you said.

I don't know what would happen if most (75%) of the population woke up though and what other foreign governments would interfere here either. Would China or Russia or European nations ect...? Would the military back it? I mean,heck there are private Armies (world wide) the elites could hire sorta like in Iraq. That opens up a whole can of worms...that the outcome could be anything. That's another reason people do not want to venture into those waters.
That is an incredibly interesting scenario. Say, in a highly hypothetical world, all governments were kicked to the curb. And corporations were left to hire their...
That is an incredibly interesting scenario.

Say, in a highly hypothetical world, all governments were kicked to the curb. And corporations were left to hire their own private militias to carry out their dirty work on foreign soil. Chew on that for a second and all sorts of wild ideas come to mind.

Borders would cease. And it would be nearly impossible to place blame. Private covert operations would be nearly untraceable to the root employer. Crazy.

But at least cultures or "innocent" groups of people wouldnt be taking the heat for it like in the current system we have. But who knows. In this ficticious scenario the opposition wouldnt really know who the enemy was until that company had already won the battle and its contractors were setting up shop.

Funding would have to come from private sources. And this is where it would get difficult for the corporate elite. I dont know if their business model could exist without sucking off the tit of bailouts and international monetary funding sources. If they had to put the money up themselves would they be able to pull it off? Maybe so. I think if anyone did some serious digging into South America's cocaine industry and how the money is laundered (our biggest corps) then maybe it wouldnt be so hard for them to dip into their own pockets.

Six and one half a dozen if you ask me. Both scenarios seem fucked.
This has basically been done before. Read up on the British East India Company. That was a private corporation that was given total control over much of England's empire. Including the right to wage war with other sovereign nations.
11/22/2012 7:22am
I wish Israel would take out Gaza/Hamas completely and then ask for forgiveness. I'm not sure anyone would really miss the people that live there and everyone knows it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

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