2004 cr250 tips

JW381
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9/23/2012 7:09am
I also have an '04, and it's definitely rich down low. I was planning on buying the PWK airstriker, but now I'm not so sure? I went to the JD Jetting website and it said it would fit an '04 CR? Should I call ahead?

I went down to a 400 main, definitely has some rip in the upper range, but I'm unable to access the pilot because the bottom of the float is all stripped out (gotta love used bikes). I can unscrew it thru the drain plug, but I fear I'll either drop it in the float or won't be able to get the smaller pilot back in.

What is wrong with the airbox? I haven't heard of this problem?

I've heard buying flexx bars helps with the vibration and adds a little plushness to the front end. I've seen them for pretty cheap some places too.
CamP
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9/23/2012 7:45am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2012 7:47am
JW381 wrote:
I also have an '04, and it's definitely rich down low. I was planning on buying the PWK airstriker, but now I'm not so sure? I...
I also have an '04, and it's definitely rich down low. I was planning on buying the PWK airstriker, but now I'm not so sure? I went to the JD Jetting website and it said it would fit an '04 CR? Should I call ahead?

I went down to a 400 main, definitely has some rip in the upper range, but I'm unable to access the pilot because the bottom of the float is all stripped out (gotta love used bikes). I can unscrew it thru the drain plug, but I fear I'll either drop it in the float or won't be able to get the smaller pilot back in.

What is wrong with the airbox? I haven't heard of this problem?

I've heard buying flexx bars helps with the vibration and adds a little plushness to the front end. I've seen them for pretty cheap some places too.
The 04-07 CR250 uses a short body Mikuni w/ TPS. The body is only 75mm long. The JD PWK is a re-jetted '00 CR250 carb and it is 91mm long. You can stuff it in there, but it's like putting 10lbs of potatoes in a 5lb bag.

The jetting I'm currently running in my YZ PWK is a CEJ needle @ middle clip, 178 main, 48 pilot and air screw 2 turns out.
1
JW381
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9/23/2012 8:04am
JW381 wrote:
I also have an '04, and it's definitely rich down low. I was planning on buying the PWK airstriker, but now I'm not so sure? I...
I also have an '04, and it's definitely rich down low. I was planning on buying the PWK airstriker, but now I'm not so sure? I went to the JD Jetting website and it said it would fit an '04 CR? Should I call ahead?

I went down to a 400 main, definitely has some rip in the upper range, but I'm unable to access the pilot because the bottom of the float is all stripped out (gotta love used bikes). I can unscrew it thru the drain plug, but I fear I'll either drop it in the float or won't be able to get the smaller pilot back in.

What is wrong with the airbox? I haven't heard of this problem?

I've heard buying flexx bars helps with the vibration and adds a little plushness to the front end. I've seen them for pretty cheap some places too.
CamP wrote:
The 04-07 CR250 uses a short body Mikuni w/ TPS. The body is only 75mm long. The JD PWK is a re-jetted '00 CR250 carb and...
The 04-07 CR250 uses a short body Mikuni w/ TPS. The body is only 75mm long. The JD PWK is a re-jetted '00 CR250 carb and it is 91mm long. You can stuff it in there, but it's like putting 10lbs of potatoes in a 5lb bag.

The jetting I'm currently running in my YZ PWK is a CEJ needle @ middle clip, 178 main, 48 pilot and air screw 2 turns out.
Should I contact Service Honda? I am fairly certain I'll be unable to re-wire anything haha... Would I be better off just trying to jet the Mikuni?

Right now all I've been able to do is go down on the main. Would dropping the needle clip help? I'm still very rich in the middle/bottom, to the point where I smoke, hit the top, then the bike turns into a lean mean beast.
CamP
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9/23/2012 8:13am
The 04-07 TPS Mikuni is junk. If you jet it lean enough to clean it up, it pings. If you jet it rich enough to stop the pinging, it's too rich. I'd suggest that you find a used '00-up YZ carb.

The Shop

JW381
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9/23/2012 8:14am
danotattan wrote:
I have an 03 cr and it runs awesome even with the mikuni. The only reason to waste money on a Keihn would be lack of...
I have an 03 cr and it runs awesome even with the mikuni. The only reason to waste money on a Keihn would be lack of jetting knowledge. Might be different if your running a pc pipe/ silencer but with the fmf combo i run a 40 pilot (30 stock), a 400-410 main jet( 420 stock) depending on the weather, get a little ping if its cold with a 400 in, and a size 70 needle. On 32:1 high octane pump gas mix the thing has a massive power gain of the bottom and keeps that famed cr mid range hit. The top still is mediocre but with a few other need mods you'll be running better then most .
Why do you run a bigger pilot? I was thinking of dropping down a size or two on my pilot. I'm at about 500 feet elevation, anywhere from 60-80 degrees, FMF fatty and shorty. Mine is an '05, btw.
JW381
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9/23/2012 8:14am
CamP wrote:
The 04-07 TPS Mikuni is junk. If you jet it lean enough to clean it up, it pings. If you jet it rich enough to stop...
The 04-07 TPS Mikuni is junk. If you jet it lean enough to clean it up, it pings. If you jet it rich enough to stop the pinging, it's too rich. I'd suggest that you find a used '00-up YZ carb.
Will the YZ carb fit? Thanks for your help, btw.
JW381
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9/23/2012 8:40am
JW381 wrote:
CamP wrote:
Yes, but the price is a little too high. I found a good one on ebay for $65, but they generally sell for about $100.
Ok, thanks Cam. I have to mod the power jet closed, and re-wire a few wires? Any info on this process?
CamP
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9/23/2012 8:46am
JW381 wrote:
Ok, thanks Cam. I have to mod the power jet closed, and re-wire a few wires? Any info on this process?
Yes, you'll need to plug the powerjet circuit closed and rejet. You can leave the TPS disconnected and the bike will perform well.

Another thing the 05-07 CR250 responds well to is milling .030" off the base of the cylinder. This reduces the squish to .050", increases compression and reduces port timing, all of which boosts much needed low end. This mod requires 50% race gas or straight 100LL avgas. If you want to run pump gas, you'll need to add 2.75 cc's of volume to the head's dome after lowering the cylinder.
JW381
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9/23/2012 9:00am
You're the man.

I have an '04, and I wouldn't be able to do any of that anyway haha but if I got the right specs for the '04 engine, I have a few people who have machine shops that might be able to do it. They're both car shops, but it's just a single cylinder motor, if I gave them the exact specs, it shouldn't be a problem, I'd imagine.
CamP
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9/23/2012 9:06am
JW381 wrote:
You're the man. I have an '04, and I wouldn't be able to do any of that anyway haha but if I got the right specs...
You're the man.

I have an '04, and I wouldn't be able to do any of that anyway haha but if I got the right specs for the '04 engine, I have a few people who have machine shops that might be able to do it. They're both car shops, but it's just a single cylinder motor, if I gave them the exact specs, it shouldn't be a problem, I'd imagine.
The '04 doesn't come stock with .080" squish like the 05-07 engine. The 02-04 engines usually have about .060" of squish and you can lower that to about .050" by using a thinner 05-07 base gasket.
JW381
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9/23/2012 9:10am
JW381 wrote:
You're the man. I have an '04, and I wouldn't be able to do any of that anyway haha but if I got the right specs...
You're the man.

I have an '04, and I wouldn't be able to do any of that anyway haha but if I got the right specs for the '04 engine, I have a few people who have machine shops that might be able to do it. They're both car shops, but it's just a single cylinder motor, if I gave them the exact specs, it shouldn't be a problem, I'd imagine.
CamP wrote:
The '04 doesn't come stock with .080" squish like the 05-07 engine. The 02-04 engines usually have about .060" of squish and you can lower that...
The '04 doesn't come stock with .080" squish like the 05-07 engine. The 02-04 engines usually have about .060" of squish and you can lower that to about .050" by using a thinner 05-07 base gasket.
Very helpful, thanks. I'll look into that. That would be a helluva lot easier than what you mentioned before.
danotattan
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9/23/2012 4:02pm
danotattan wrote:
I have an 03 cr and it runs awesome even with the mikuni. The only reason to waste money on a Keihn would be lack of...
I have an 03 cr and it runs awesome even with the mikuni. The only reason to waste money on a Keihn would be lack of jetting knowledge. Might be different if your running a pc pipe/ silencer but with the fmf combo i run a 40 pilot (30 stock), a 400-410 main jet( 420 stock) depending on the weather, get a little ping if its cold with a 400 in, and a size 70 needle. On 32:1 high octane pump gas mix the thing has a massive power gain of the bottom and keeps that famed cr mid range hit. The top still is mediocre but with a few other need mods you'll be running better then most .
JW381 wrote:
Why do you run a bigger pilot? I was thinking of dropping down a size or two on my pilot. I'm at about 500 feet elevation...
Why do you run a bigger pilot? I was thinking of dropping down a size or two on my pilot. I'm at about 500 feet elevation, anywhere from 60-80 degrees, FMF fatty and shorty. Mine is an '05, btw.
Ive tried both up and down in the pilot and so far upping the pilot and downsizing the larger main has worked the best. I run a gnarly with a shorty just to boost the bottom a bit but its not to much different then the fatty. with the small main you need to buy a smaller needle to. I suggest buying a load of jets and just trying it. Its the only way to do it with theses things.
JW381
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9/24/2012 1:03pm
ATTENTION ALL VITAL RACE SHOP EXPERTS: I NEED YOUR ASSISTANCE

Bear with me here as I try to explain my ride yesterday.

It was my first time actually riding my *new* '04 CR yesterday, and first I must say that this bike is a dream. I already like it far and a way more than my '09 YZ. To each their own.

I was battling rich jetting, so I went down two sizes on the main to a 400. Like I said in a few previous posts, I couldn't change the pilot. I went out for my first moto on the gas that came in the bike, and after the first lap it ran surprisingly well. Still a little boggy on the bottom/mid, but it was snappier than I expected with the rich jetting.

I drained what was left of that old gas and put in my fresh mix of 92 octane pump and 110 octane leaded Sunoco race gas, mixed at about 40:1 with Bel Ray full synthetic. This change in gas changed the way this bike ran completely. It ripped off the middle and pulled so hard on top, it was viagra-like. After I pulled off, I noticed the bike didn't want to idle and the clutch was slipping pretty bad. I had just installed a new Pro Taper perch, and I don't think I had it adjusted enough.

When I went to go start my bike again it was running kind of funny and sounded a little off. I decided not to push it anymore.

Given this information; would you say I fried the clutch because it was adjusted too tight, or did I torch a ring or piston because it was running too lean on the better gas? I am going to check the spark plug, and maybe even take the top of the motor off to take a look at the piston as soon as I get a chance.
JW381
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9/24/2012 4:26pm
I hate to do this but BUMP. I'd really like to get some advice, I have high hopes of getting this thing running right again so I can keep getting accustomed to it this weekend.
CamP
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9/24/2012 5:06pm
The Sunoco actually runs richer than pump gas. You certainly didn't hurt the engine because of the race gas.
JW381
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9/24/2012 5:19pm
CamP wrote:
The Sunoco actually runs richer than pump gas. You certainly didn't hurt the engine because of the race gas.
So you think it was the clutch? The bike definitely ran crisper than the gas that was in it. Unfortunately I don't know what it was, or even how old it was. It was leaded also, so from what I've read that should have provided a little bit of extra lubrication.
JW381
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9/24/2012 5:22pm
The spooge pretty much disappeared too. The first moto had quite a bit, all over the swingarm and shit, and the second moto had virtually none. The exhaust tip even looked a little gray.

I'll try to get a few good pics of the spark plug, maybe even the piston head and clutch plates asap. Just gotta find the damn time.
CamP
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9/24/2012 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 9/24/2012 6:50pm
JW381 wrote:
The spooge pretty much disappeared too. The first moto had quite a bit, all over the swingarm and shit, and the second moto had virtually none...
The spooge pretty much disappeared too. The first moto had quite a bit, all over the swingarm and shit, and the second moto had virtually none. The exhaust tip even looked a little gray.

I'll try to get a few good pics of the spark plug, maybe even the piston head and clutch plates asap. Just gotta find the damn time.
Pump gas has a higher evaporation curve, which contributes to exhaust spooge and dirty top ends. Race gas burns cleaner because the race fuel has a lower evaporation curve and less junk additives. The lower evaporation curve is also why race fuel has much better throttle response.

Race fuels generally run richer than pump, unless they're oxygenated, and Sunoco 110 isn't oxygenated. Oxygenated race fuel, like VP U4.4, runs much leaner and usually requires 2 jets richer to compensate for high oxygen content.
CamP
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9/24/2012 6:57pm
CamP wrote:
The Sunoco actually runs richer than pump gas. You certainly didn't hurt the engine because of the race gas.
JW381 wrote:
So you think it was the clutch? The bike definitely ran crisper than the gas that was in it. Unfortunately I don't know what it was...
So you think it was the clutch? The bike definitely ran crisper than the gas that was in it. Unfortunately I don't know what it was, or even how old it was. It was leaded also, so from what I've read that should have provided a little bit of extra lubrication.
Your description is pretty vague so it's hard to say what's wrong with it. Riding with a over tightened clutch can wear the plates prematurely. You need enough slack that you can fit a nickel in the gap between the lever and perch. I would dump the oil and see if it smells burnt. I'd also do a compress test.
JW381
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9/24/2012 7:33pm
Sorry, Cam. Hard to describe it all. I'll check the plates and the plug and hopefully the piston and post some pics. Thanks for the info.
JW381
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10/6/2012 2:01pm
So I finally found the time to start checking on the bike and diagnosing. I started it up and it seemed to be idling a little high, smoking pretty bad but that's to be expected at first, but I felt like I could hear the engine more than usual. Similar to a four stroke, the way you can just sort of hear the piston clicking or whatever, I felt like that was abnormal, but I can't say for sure.

I drained the oil and it seemed like it was low and the oil was pretty deathly black and wasted looking.

Pulled the clutch cover off and this is what I'm looking at now.

Grooves in the clutch basket. What do you guys think, file or replace?


Locking nut in the center of the flywheel. Do you think this was intentionally flattened? It's on the two opposite sides.


To my surprise, the plates looked brand new. These are the two furthest back, and all the rest in between look pretty solid like these. No signs of discoloration, on the friction plates at least.
JW381
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10/6/2012 2:45pm


This is the plug. It wasn't terribly bad, considering how rich it was running when I first got it, but I changed it anyway. What's peculiar to me is it was not the same number plug as what I've looked up. When I checked it said the model for this bike was a BR8EG, same as my YZ. It had a B8ES I want to say in it. They looked identical, so I'm not sure what the difference was?
Bruce372
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10/6/2012 3:12pm
BR8ES has a wider electrode, the finer tip of the EG is to resist fouling. But you should be good to go on the BR8ES.

Anyone running pump gas in a smoker should look at that expensive plug out of the RM125, when it detonates, the ground strap wont fall off and ruin the engine.
Bruce372
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10/6/2012 3:13pm
and you clutch needs a new basket and plates.....in all my time running RMs that are supposed to have horrible clutches, ive never seen one that looks that bad!
JW381
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10/6/2012 3:44pm
Bruce372 wrote:
and you clutch needs a new basket and plates.....in all my time running RMs that are supposed to have horrible clutches, ive never seen one that...
and you clutch needs a new basket and plates.....in all my time running RMs that are supposed to have horrible clutches, ive never seen one that looks that bad!
Ok I'll replace the basket, but I'm confused by your comments regarding the plates? They look pretty solid to me..?
JW381
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10/6/2012 3:46pm
Bruce372 wrote:
BR8ES has a wider electrode, the finer tip of the EG is to resist fouling. But you should be good to go on the BR8ES. Anyone...
BR8ES has a wider electrode, the finer tip of the EG is to resist fouling. But you should be good to go on the BR8ES.

Anyone running pump gas in a smoker should look at that expensive plug out of the RM125, when it detonates, the ground strap wont fall off and ruin the engine.
I'm running half Sunoco 110 leaded race gas and half 93 octane pump gas. I went back up to a 410 main and I think I'm going to go up to a 35 pilot. It seems to be too lean now.
Bruce372
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10/6/2012 7:20pm
the tangs on the fiber plates are worn- there will be a spec in the manual, but i can tell from the pic those fibers are rounded from hammering the loose basket and ready for the trash.

if you put them old fibers in a new basket, there will still be a fore/aft gap as the clutch rotates and the new basket will wear very quickly.

also, the inner hub looks grooved too.

with clutches, its often best to replace everything at the same time, unless you just smoked the plates, but even then the springs will sack out from the heat and the inner driven plates might warp.

are those inners steel or aluminium? i would use steel...luckily for you, OEM honda parts are reasonable cost. ive never heard anything good about aftermarket clutch plates, apart from Pro_x which i believe supply the OEMs; ive often used EBC spring sets since you can save a little there.
JW381
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10/6/2012 10:28pm
Hmph.. ok thanks. Guess I'll have to swap all that out. While I'm at it I have a guy who has a machine shop who could split the case, so i might replace the right side seal while I'm at it. Been makin me nervous ever aince i read about it.

Go ahead and laugh, but i went to take the cylinder head off and in my own stupidity I removed the water hose and lost a lot of anti freeze. Do i have to do anything in specific to get the system pressurized again?

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