Family sues in child's motocross death

7/21/2008 9:04pm
jtomasik wrote:
Incredible. It's a dangerous sport. If anyone's at fault, it's the parents.
Sometimes It is best to keep your opinion's to your self, especially when it involves parents losing a child, I"m sure the family blame"s themselves to some degree and they don't need outsiders/know it all's trashing on them. Maybe it would be best to support the family and let it all play out.
neysbo
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7/21/2008 9:18pm
Ok,

It has been stated that the session the kid was out in was for 50cc only yet the track let a bunch of 85's out there. How is that the parents fault ? Yes as parents we know the risks of riding but when a track makes a decision at the last minute to allow something like this when it should be a 50cc only practice than I think they are liable. That is a decision that the track made on this day , the parents sent their kid out for a 50cc practice not a open practice.

FreshTopEnd
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7/21/2008 9:40pm
Here's another way to look at it that might help track owners make good decisions ahead of time.

Like it or not, warranted or not, there are going to be lawsuits from activities where get hurt, especially if they pay someone to do it. Don't judge that for the sake of this point; it's going to happen.

Then ask yourself, if 12 jurors who don't know the sport are asked whether x was a reasonable way to operate my track, how will they answer? That's a good way to do self risk management. "If I could do X or Y, and Y would a reduce a risk, would someone think I was unreasonable for choosing to do X instead of Y"

Whatever people in the MX community think, I think 12 regular folks are going to have a hard time not dinging someone where little kids are active at the same time larger or more skilled riders active. That's an issue that's going to a jury. There may be an issue of contributory negligence on a parents part, but it's still going to go to the jury.
WhipMeister
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7/21/2008 9:44pm
Outstanding point, counselor.

The Shop

fcr
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7/21/2008 9:48pm
neysbo wrote:
Ok, It has been stated that the session the kid was out in was for 50cc only yet the track let a bunch of 85's out...
Ok,

It has been stated that the session the kid was out in was for 50cc only yet the track let a bunch of 85's out there. How is that the parents fault ? Yes as parents we know the risks of riding but when a track makes a decision at the last minute to allow something like this when it should be a 50cc only practice than I think they are liable. That is a decision that the track made on this day , the parents sent their kid out for a 50cc practice not a open practice.

According to that report. News paper stories have to be taken with a grain of salt. It is sad that he died, he will never come back. If it is correct who let the larger bikes out, were they out all practices? We don't have the facts so we really can't say. But the parent is ultimately responsible. If they saw that larger bikes were out there, they should have got him off the track. I see kids coming out on the big bike tracks all the time with there parents blessing. If he was out there just a few seconds then that is different. It is ultimately the parents who are responsible. No one takes responsibility for their actions any more.
FreshTopEnd
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7/21/2008 9:53pm
"But the parent is ultimately responsible."

Juries get to decide who's ultimately responsible. Just a cold, hard fact whatever one's opinion.
7/21/2008 9:54pm
If you guys remeber a few weeks ago the link sombody posted about the teen who lost his leg from a MX related crash at hardrock cycle park and his parents had hired a lawyer. This past saturday I was there and there was a big sign at the gate that stated by entering the property you waives all liability rights and the right to sue the track in the event you get injured.. I wish I would have snapped a pic of the sign
fcr
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7/21/2008 9:57pm
"But the parent is ultimately responsible."

Juries get to decide who's ultimately responsible. Just a cold, hard fact whatever one's opinion.
Sad to say you are correct. What scares me is they are my peers.
aggiemoto99
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7/22/2008 5:03am
Because sueing brings back the dead. That's why they are doing it, right?"
jtomasik
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7/22/2008 5:13am
Sometimes It is best to keep your opinion's to your self, especially when it involves parents losing a child, I"m sure the family blame"s themselves to...
Sometimes It is best to keep your opinion's to your self, especially when it involves parents losing a child, I"m sure the family blame"s themselves to some degree and they don't need outsiders/know it all's trashing on them. Maybe it would be best to support the family and let it all play out.
And they damn well should be feeling it. I know I'd probably never forgive myself if my son died due to any negligence on my part, no matter how small.

This is bullcrap. MX is a dangerous sport. The kid could've got landed on by another 50, and we wouldn't have heard squat about it. When we let our kids ride, we knowingly put them in harm's way, and we should take every step possible to reduce the risk of injury, or we should be fully accountable.

The only reason I'm saying anything is because these people are trying to deflect the responsibility to someone else. Take a good read of the waiver you sign at the track you ride on. Every single waiver I ever read is pretty damn clear: it's a dangerous sport, and I'm a voluntary participant.
ProMed
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7/22/2008 6:19am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2008 6:23am
kaboom645 wrote:
If you guys remeber a few weeks ago the link sombody posted about the teen who lost his leg from a MX related crash at hardrock...
If you guys remeber a few weeks ago the link sombody posted about the teen who lost his leg from a MX related crash at hardrock cycle park and his parents had hired a lawyer. This past saturday I was there and there was a big sign at the gate that stated by entering the property you waives all liability rights and the right to sue the track in the event you get injured.. I wish I would have snapped a pic of the sign
That sign may prevent some potential lawsuits, but my guess is that it wouldn't hold much merit in court if there was negligence found on the part of the track that resulted in injury or death. FTE?
aggiemoto99
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7/22/2008 7:30am
no waivers ever hold up in court, someone explained it to me once, but I forgot why.

7/22/2008 9:17am
jtomasik wrote:
And they damn well should be feeling it. I know I'd probably never forgive myself if my son died due to any negligence on my part...
And they damn well should be feeling it. I know I'd probably never forgive myself if my son died due to any negligence on my part, no matter how small.

This is bullcrap. MX is a dangerous sport. The kid could've got landed on by another 50, and we wouldn't have heard squat about it. When we let our kids ride, we knowingly put them in harm's way, and we should take every step possible to reduce the risk of injury, or we should be fully accountable.

The only reason I'm saying anything is because these people are trying to deflect the responsibility to someone else. Take a good read of the waiver you sign at the track you ride on. Every single waiver I ever read is pretty damn clear: it's a dangerous sport, and I'm a voluntary participant.
You just may be right, There are many different things that could have happened, If the Kid was in the line waiting to practice with the bigger bikes, the parents and the track should have caught it. At our local track a little kid can can enter the track at to many different places,and sometimes do so at the wrong time because little kids do silly thing's.

I think everyone can help with that,If my son come's up to a little kid that is not supposed to be out there he get's his attention and help's escort the little kid off the track.I alway's thought the fun of a local track was the friends you have at the track and everyone should help.

By no means am I saying it's either one's fault, Do I think the parent's should sue the track? no,, But I just think when somthing like this happens It's not our place to blame anyone.
WhipMeister
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7/22/2008 10:17am
kaboom645 wrote:
If you guys remeber a few weeks ago the link sombody posted about the teen who lost his leg from a MX related crash at hardrock...
If you guys remeber a few weeks ago the link sombody posted about the teen who lost his leg from a MX related crash at hardrock cycle park and his parents had hired a lawyer. This past saturday I was there and there was a big sign at the gate that stated by entering the property you waives all liability rights and the right to sue the track in the event you get injured.. I wish I would have snapped a pic of the sign
Except that sign does not prevent someone from suing.
FreshTopEnd
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7/22/2008 11:05am
You can write effective waivers to cover natural risks and promoter negligence in some states, including California. It won't stop someone from suing you, but it can help you defend your case and sometimes get you summary judgment.

But the issue becomes when the conduct is something that demonstrates indifference to a risk that's apparent, especially if the risk is the product of operations decisions. A waiver might help you if you hire an experience person to control access to the track for practice and you have procedures to separate riders who almost anyone would say ought not be on the track at the same time, but after all of that someone misses a kid still on the track and lets the adults out. It stillm may be negligent to have made that mistake, but subject to a written waiver.

I doubt a waiver is going to help much if your practice is to take $30 and not supervise whose on the track when, especially if there is a history of the type of injury taking place.

I'm not trying to get into the personal responsibility debate, I'm just trying to lay out the reality of it. Tracks are going to get sued in any event. If track owners don't manage their risks and the well-being of their riders with common sense, then those lawsuits (and their insurance companies) are going to regulate their behavior with large judgments. That's a business reality track owners need to take into account when they decide how they are going to run their tracks and the fees they are going to charge to pay to do it right.
brent26wood
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7/22/2008 11:41am
no waivers ever hold up in court, someone explained it to me once, but I forgot why.

They are not legal unless notarized and witnessed. That AMA waiver you sign going into the track isn't worth the paper it's written on.
Cygnus
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7/22/2008 11:47am
My release is written by my lawyer and it basically is set up so when you sign and pay your daily fee you are buying a piece of land for the day. Thus making you a land owner for the time you are here . As far as I know you can't sue yourself as a land owner if you get hurt on your land.
7/22/2008 11:57am
Cygnus wrote:
My release is written by my lawyer and it basically is set up so when you sign and pay your daily fee you are buying a...
My release is written by my lawyer and it basically is set up so when you sign and pay your daily fee you are buying a piece of land for the day. Thus making you a land owner for the time you are here . As far as I know you can't sue yourself as a land owner if you get hurt on your land.
Would that loop hole actually work?
Cygnus
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7/22/2008 11:59am
Better than the AMA waiver I hope.Unsure
7/22/2008 12:07pm
Cygnus wrote:
Better than the AMA waiver I hope.Unsure
Would the liability be placed on the land owner or race promoter?
Cygnus
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7/22/2008 12:10pm
I am one in the same. I am not doing any races for time being though .
kb450
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7/22/2008 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2008 1:57pm
I've ridden several practices day @ this track with this promoter. Top notch. He always has a minimum of 4 rounds. 50, 65, 85/150, & big bikes. Track was ALWAYS in the best possible shape. Flaggers in blind areas. The promoter is someone who has a great love for the sport, a MX historian, and someone that genuinely care for his riders. The promoter opted out of an entire series that he normally host because this accident had such a deep impact on him. This guy is a man of men and someone all of us could learn from. I wasn't there the day this happened but my understanding it was a 65 and not an 85 (don't quote me). Secondly, my other understanding was there were only 2 bikes on the track that were not 50's not the reported gaggle of bike bikes. And both of those riders were extreme beginners. I am truly sorry to hear the parents have decided to sue the promoter and even more sorry for the parents lose.
7/22/2008 2:54pm
kaboom645 wrote:
If you guys remeber a few weeks ago the link sombody posted about the teen who lost his leg from a MX related crash at hardrock...
If you guys remeber a few weeks ago the link sombody posted about the teen who lost his leg from a MX related crash at hardrock cycle park and his parents had hired a lawyer. This past saturday I was there and there was a big sign at the gate that stated by entering the property you waives all liability rights and the right to sue the track in the event you get injured.. I wish I would have snapped a pic of the sign
Except that sign does not prevent someone from suing.
yup... and if they can convince a non MX jury (as was stated above) that the track was negligent (in the jury's mind) about choosing to do X rather than Y then it would STILL be the tracks fault as it may be considered "gross negligence" of the track owner who chose to use the easy way out and no waiver will save them from that....

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