Lake Elsinore crew making changes

queen of spodes 9/5/2012 10:45am
9/5/2012 10:45am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2012 10:45am
I'd be happy with a National at Monster Mountain.
bradmx421 9/5/2012 10:50am
9/5/2012 10:50am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2012 10:53am
karnivool wrote:
how is this any different or safer than pala?

outdoor terrain+sx obstacles=high speed disaster
downandup wrote:
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse...
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse shit.

Pala actually does have some REAL elevation changes. Not all man made like Elsi.
they never trucked in horse shit..... its mulch not poop.

and Elsinores dirt now is pretty cool.....ive ridden it a few times since they did it and i was really impressed by how well it hold moisture now.

all of you complainers need to just sit back and watch the race happen, i guarantee the riders wont be complaining as much as all the keyboard warriors on here

i admit, Glen Helen is an awesome track for a National......but how many of you have been there on a regular race or a practice day? its a shithole compaired to alot of tracks here in California. and Elsinore is top-notch 7 days a week.
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 11:13am
9/5/2012 11:13am
karnivool wrote:
how is this any different or safer than pala?

outdoor terrain+sx obstacles=high speed disaster
downandup wrote:
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse...
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse shit.

Pala actually does have some REAL elevation changes. Not all man made like Elsi.
bradmx421 wrote:
they never trucked in horse shit..... its mulch not poop. and Elsinores dirt now is pretty cool.....ive ridden it a few times since they did it...
they never trucked in horse shit..... its mulch not poop.

and Elsinores dirt now is pretty cool.....ive ridden it a few times since they did it and i was really impressed by how well it hold moisture now.

all of you complainers need to just sit back and watch the race happen, i guarantee the riders wont be complaining as much as all the keyboard warriors on here

i admit, Glen Helen is an awesome track for a National......but how many of you have been there on a regular race or a practice day? its a shithole compaired to alot of tracks here in California. and Elsinore is top-notch 7 days a week.
Mulch?

Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then.....

I have also ridden the main track quite a few times, and you have to wait about 2 hours after they water that "dirt" before you ride on it because it's like ice. Now I'm no pro rider, so I am sure they can handle it, but wow, that stuff is like a skating rink.

I hope the Elsi Nat goes well, though. I like what the owners have done there, overall.
Skip376
Profile picture for user Skip376
Posts
317
Joined
7/7/2012
Location
USA
Skip376 9/5/2012 11:16am
9/5/2012 11:16am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2012 11:18am
downandup wrote:
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse...
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse shit.

Pala actually does have some REAL elevation changes. Not all man made like Elsi.
bradmx421 wrote:
they never trucked in horse shit..... its mulch not poop. and Elsinores dirt now is pretty cool.....ive ridden it a few times since they did it...
they never trucked in horse shit..... its mulch not poop.

and Elsinores dirt now is pretty cool.....ive ridden it a few times since they did it and i was really impressed by how well it hold moisture now.

all of you complainers need to just sit back and watch the race happen, i guarantee the riders wont be complaining as much as all the keyboard warriors on here

i admit, Glen Helen is an awesome track for a National......but how many of you have been there on a regular race or a practice day? its a shithole compaired to alot of tracks here in California. and Elsinore is top-notch 7 days a week.
downandup wrote:
Mulch? Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks...
Mulch?

Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then.....

I have also ridden the main track quite a few times, and you have to wait about 2 hours after they water that "dirt" before you ride on it because it's like ice. Now I'm no pro rider, so I am sure they can handle it, but wow, that stuff is like a skating rink.

I hope the Elsi Nat goes well, though. I like what the owners have done there, overall.
Legally they can't truck in outside dirt/material. The mulch comes from the trees planted around the area from what I've read.

The Shop

See All »
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 11:19am
9/5/2012 11:19am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2012 11:22am
bradmx421 wrote:
they never trucked in horse shit..... its mulch not poop. and Elsinores dirt now is pretty cool.....ive ridden it a few times since they did it...
they never trucked in horse shit..... its mulch not poop.

and Elsinores dirt now is pretty cool.....ive ridden it a few times since they did it and i was really impressed by how well it hold moisture now.

all of you complainers need to just sit back and watch the race happen, i guarantee the riders wont be complaining as much as all the keyboard warriors on here

i admit, Glen Helen is an awesome track for a National......but how many of you have been there on a regular race or a practice day? its a shithole compaired to alot of tracks here in California. and Elsinore is top-notch 7 days a week.
downandup wrote:
Mulch? Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks...
Mulch?

Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then.....

I have also ridden the main track quite a few times, and you have to wait about 2 hours after they water that "dirt" before you ride on it because it's like ice. Now I'm no pro rider, so I am sure they can handle it, but wow, that stuff is like a skating rink.

I hope the Elsi Nat goes well, though. I like what the owners have done there, overall.
Skip376 wrote:
Legally they can't truck in outside dirt/material. The mulch comes from the trees planted around the area from what I've read.
The trees they planted are brand new, they wouldn't need trimming! If they did trim them, there wouldn't be any shade! Also, there aren't many trees to begin with!!!

Also, poop is not dirt, didn't you know that??? Last I heard, horses didn't eat dirt.
Skip376
Profile picture for user Skip376
Posts
317
Joined
7/7/2012
Location
USA
Skip376 9/5/2012 11:22am
9/5/2012 11:22am
downandup wrote:
Mulch? Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks...
Mulch?

Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then.....

I have also ridden the main track quite a few times, and you have to wait about 2 hours after they water that "dirt" before you ride on it because it's like ice. Now I'm no pro rider, so I am sure they can handle it, but wow, that stuff is like a skating rink.

I hope the Elsi Nat goes well, though. I like what the owners have done there, overall.
Skip376 wrote:
Legally they can't truck in outside dirt/material. The mulch comes from the trees planted around the area from what I've read.
downandup wrote:
The trees they planted are brand new, they wouldn't need trimming! If they did trim them, there wouldn't be any shade! Also, there aren't many trees...
The trees they planted are brand new, they wouldn't need trimming! If they did trim them, there wouldn't be any shade! Also, there aren't many trees to begin with!!!

Also, poop is not dirt, didn't you know that??? Last I heard, horses didn't eat dirt.
You can't bring any outside dirt/materials that will change the soil from everything I read. They've said the mulch is from trees around the area they used to make the mulch.
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 11:25am
9/5/2012 11:25am
Skip376 wrote:
Legally they can't truck in outside dirt/material. The mulch comes from the trees planted around the area from what I've read.
downandup wrote:
The trees they planted are brand new, they wouldn't need trimming! If they did trim them, there wouldn't be any shade! Also, there aren't many trees...
The trees they planted are brand new, they wouldn't need trimming! If they did trim them, there wouldn't be any shade! Also, there aren't many trees to begin with!!!

Also, poop is not dirt, didn't you know that??? Last I heard, horses didn't eat dirt.
Skip376 wrote:
You can't bring any outside dirt/materials that will change the soil from everything I read. They've said the mulch is from trees around the area they...
You can't bring any outside dirt/materials that will change the soil from everything I read. They've said the mulch is from trees around the area they used to make the mulch.
There are horse farms right there, just a few blocks away.

I guess you just don't want to believe me.

I have ridden this track quite a few time. I have fallen in this shit, and have had it on my jersey and pants. What do I know, right?
bradmx421 9/5/2012 11:25am
9/5/2012 11:25am
downandup wrote:
Mulch? Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks...
Mulch?

Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then.....

I have also ridden the main track quite a few times, and you have to wait about 2 hours after they water that "dirt" before you ride on it because it's like ice. Now I'm no pro rider, so I am sure they can handle it, but wow, that stuff is like a skating rink.

I hope the Elsi Nat goes well, though. I like what the owners have done there, overall.
well if you did "ride" it after they watered it you would know that it is not like a skating rink....its ripped so deep that you have to put all your weight on your back wheel to keep your momentum up. Ive ridden it plenty of times since they did it.....the smell i have smelled is Mulch.....when i wash my bike after you can see it is mulch...not hay.... to me it looks like broken down palm leaves

i also hope it goes well, i was sceptical about this being a National until the last couple months when they started improving the dirt quality....it is now one of my favorite tracks to ride. i gladly shell out $25 each time going there......even though i already have the Fast Pass for Milestone, Perris, Pala
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 11:30am
9/5/2012 11:30am
downandup wrote:
Mulch? Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks...
Mulch?

Hahaha! Mulch from where? A horse farm? It has hay in it, and it smells like shit. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then.....

I have also ridden the main track quite a few times, and you have to wait about 2 hours after they water that "dirt" before you ride on it because it's like ice. Now I'm no pro rider, so I am sure they can handle it, but wow, that stuff is like a skating rink.

I hope the Elsi Nat goes well, though. I like what the owners have done there, overall.
bradmx421 wrote:
well if you did "ride" it after they watered it you would know that it is not like a skating rink....its ripped so deep that you...
well if you did "ride" it after they watered it you would know that it is not like a skating rink....its ripped so deep that you have to put all your weight on your back wheel to keep your momentum up. Ive ridden it plenty of times since they did it.....the smell i have smelled is Mulch.....when i wash my bike after you can see it is mulch...not hay.... to me it looks like broken down palm leaves

i also hope it goes well, i was sceptical about this being a National until the last couple months when they started improving the dirt quality....it is now one of my favorite tracks to ride. i gladly shell out $25 each time going there......even though i already have the Fast Pass for Milestone, Perris, Pala
It is super ripped in the morning, and then by the afternoon it becomes a skating rink. In the morning it's super super deep. By the time it dries out and then they water it, it gets slippery IN PLACES now. It is not as bad as it used to be, by any means.

You say it's broken down palm trees, I say it's poo, the other guy says it's plain old trees, whatever......

The track will be killer, the racers will love it, and the 250 race will be unreal!!!
ocscottie
Profile picture for user ocscottie
Posts
69092
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Redding, CA, USA
ocscottie 9/5/2012 11:38am
9/5/2012 11:38am
I just posted the animated track map, errrr uhhhhh....i sure hope the actual track is more exciting than that looked. Blink
Motodave15
Profile picture for user Motodave15
Posts
4252
Joined
8/7/2010
Location
Temple City, CA, USA
Motodave15 9/5/2012 11:40am
9/5/2012 11:40am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2012 11:40am
Anybody who has ridden elsinore before; 2003- to when it closed and reopened and has ridden it again 11-12

Knows that it is still a skating rink.. They would have to rip the track ungodly deep to make it continusly change... The mulch they added on top is very nice, and definitely changes the way it feels in the morning.. But!! after that ish gets pushed around a bit.. it dries the hell up and turns into a square edge skating rink... I really want to see how this track looks after the final moto's of the day.
ocscottie
Profile picture for user ocscottie
Posts
69092
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Redding, CA, USA
ocscottie 9/5/2012 11:40am
9/5/2012 11:40am
i guarantee the riders wont be complaining as much as all the keyboard warriors on here

HAR!!

GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
GuyB 9/5/2012 11:58am
9/5/2012 11:58am
Are you guys really arguing about the content/smell of the dirt and mulch?

Maybe taste-testing is next in line? Blink
bradmx421 9/5/2012 12:00pm
9/5/2012 12:00pm
GuyB wrote:
Are you guys really arguing about the content/smell of the dirt and mulch?

Maybe taste-testing is next in line? Blink
already done that buddy, got a nice roost in the mouth from my boys 450....... didnt taste poo...just dirt...lol
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
GuyB 9/5/2012 12:11pm
9/5/2012 12:11pm
bradmx421 wrote:
already done that buddy, got a nice roost in the mouth from my boys 450....... didnt taste poo...just dirt...lol
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. Wink

I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be correct.

However it turns out, everyone will have to race it, and it'll likely have a different character than 10 of the other races on the National calendar. Southwick is the other.
therealjonon
Profile picture for user therealjonon
Posts
1546
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Santa Clarita, CA, USA
therealjonon 9/5/2012 12:20pm
9/5/2012 12:20pm
NO DOUBT in my mind lake elsinore rises to the occasion like every other national for the first time and puts a great showing on.
jtomasik
Profile picture for user jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO, USA
jtomasik 9/5/2012 12:22pm
9/5/2012 12:22pm
Oh my god who's making that video? I had to stop watching so I didn't have to hear him anymore. Jeezus, this guy would've done it better:

https://youtu.be/CArWivYt208
etccb
Profile picture for user etccb
Posts
461
Joined
12/22/2010
Location
USA
etccb 9/5/2012 12:28pm
9/5/2012 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2012 12:33pm
I am sure it will be better then it used to be but here is a thought. Who cares as long as it is safe. This is a offroad style motocross race and they will all be on the same track. If it has moore hard pack, is slicker, and has more square edge bumps then any track so far this season it is still a motocross race. It may not suit everyone but that is the same thing that some riders go through at southwick. Sand specialist have southwick and the hard pack specialist would have this if thats how it turns out.
If there is not a dust or safety problem.. Drop the gate!

Pit Row

See All »
bradmx421 9/5/2012 12:37pm
9/5/2012 12:37pm
GuyB wrote:
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. ;) I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be...
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. Wink

I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be correct.

However it turns out, everyone will have to race it, and it'll likely have a different character than 10 of the other races on the National calendar. Southwick is the other.
HaHa....Taste is 70% smell right?

I personally cant wait for this race..........Saturday cant come soon enough.

Dont forget since your in town for the race anyway to stop by the shop and say hi........and get a free burger and goodies

TeamGreen
Profile picture for user TeamGreen
Posts
37018
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
TeamGreen 9/5/2012 12:38pm
9/5/2012 12:38pm
bradmx421 wrote:
already done that buddy, got a nice roost in the mouth from my boys 450....... didnt taste poo...just dirt...lol
GuyB wrote:
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. ;) I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be...
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. Wink

I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be correct.

However it turns out, everyone will have to race it, and it'll likely have a different character than 10 of the other races on the National calendar. Southwick is the other.
OK Gibby,

Let's have it and I expect you to be Dead-Honest:

Is The Lake Elsinore National Track as FULL of Shit as the Ass-Clowns around H'yar?!

I'm jus' Axin'...
Outsider
Profile picture for user Outsider
Posts
10628
Joined
1/29/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Outsider 9/5/2012 12:51pm
9/5/2012 12:51pm
Truckloads of mulch... LOL!

I used to live 10 minutes from hellsinore and rode there at least once a week. While I applaud the efforts being made, it's still a lake bed.

I plan to go check it out, I'm sure it will be good racing. Doesn't stop me from wishing it was at GH.
Scotty
Profile picture for user Scotty
Posts
4139
Joined
3/21/2008
Location
USA
Scotty 9/5/2012 12:53pm
9/5/2012 12:53pm
karnivool wrote:
how is this any different or safer than pala?

outdoor terrain+sx obstacles=high speed disaster
downandup wrote:
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse...
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse shit.

Pala actually does have some REAL elevation changes. Not all man made like Elsi.
You realize the elevation at Pala is also man made, right?
MyloFMX
Profile picture for user MyloFMX
Posts
32
Joined
7/9/2012
Location
Beaumont, CA, USA
MyloFMX 9/5/2012 1:18pm
9/5/2012 1:18pm
bradmx421 wrote:
HaHa....Taste is 70% smell right? I personally cant wait for this race..........Saturday cant come soon enough. Dont forget since your in town for the race anyway...
HaHa....Taste is 70% smell right?

I personally cant wait for this race..........Saturday cant come soon enough.

Dont forget since your in town for the race anyway to stop by the shop and say hi........and get a free burger and goodies

That looks fun! I may have to come on out and check it out! It is handicap accessible right? haha
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 1:24pm
9/5/2012 1:24pm
bradmx421 wrote:
already done that buddy, got a nice roost in the mouth from my boys 450....... didnt taste poo...just dirt...lol
GuyB wrote:
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. ;) I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be...
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. Wink

I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be correct.

However it turns out, everyone will have to race it, and it'll likely have a different character than 10 of the other races on the National calendar. Southwick is the other.
GuyB.......didn't I say "whatever" in the post above and let it go?

I have laughed when people and I differ before. I have even laughed and agreed when people have showed me I am wrong. I think you are the one who has the burning desire to be correct, sir, not I. I just like to discuss things now and again when I have the time. I am on the road for extended periods of time when I can't get to a computer and like to go on here. I guess you don't want me on here?
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 1:26pm
9/5/2012 1:26pm
bradmx421 wrote:
already done that buddy, got a nice roost in the mouth from my boys 450....... didnt taste poo...just dirt...lol
GuyB wrote:
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. ;) I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be...
Got it. I'm not going to ask how you know what...well, never mind. Wink

I have figured out that downandup has a burning need to be correct.

However it turns out, everyone will have to race it, and it'll likely have a different character than 10 of the other races on the National calendar. Southwick is the other.
TeamGreen wrote:
OK Gibby, Let's have it and I expect you to be Dead-Honest: Is The Lake Elsinore National Track as FULL of Shit as the Ass-Clowns around...
OK Gibby,

Let's have it and I expect you to be Dead-Honest:

Is The Lake Elsinore National Track as FULL of Shit as the Ass-Clowns around H'yar?!

I'm jus' Axin'...
Oh, and of coure you're not one them?
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 1:29pm
9/5/2012 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2012 1:32pm
karnivool wrote:
how is this any different or safer than pala?

outdoor terrain+sx obstacles=high speed disaster
downandup wrote:
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse...
Pala's dirt is MUCH better. Probably has the best dirt in So Cal. Elsi has horrible dirt that has been made "better" by trucking in horse shit.

Pala actually does have some REAL elevation changes. Not all man made like Elsi.
Scotty wrote:
You realize the elevation at Pala is also man made, right?
Not all of it is!

It was built into a hillside, you realize this, don't you? Have you ridden there?
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
GuyB 9/5/2012 1:45pm
9/5/2012 1:45pm
TeamGreen wrote:
OK Gibby, Let's have it and I expect you to be Dead-Honest: Is The Lake Elsinore National Track as FULL of Shit as the Ass-Clowns around...
OK Gibby,

Let's have it and I expect you to be Dead-Honest:

Is The Lake Elsinore National Track as FULL of Shit as the Ass-Clowns around H'yar?!

I'm jus' Axin'...
I'm sure some birds, mice, rabbits, fish and maybe a few coyotes have taken care of business there. But I'm guessing the FOS content of the average poster here is much higher.
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
GuyB 9/5/2012 1:47pm
9/5/2012 1:47pm
downandup wrote:
GuyB.......didn't I say "whatever" in the post above and let it go? I have laughed when people and I differ before. I have even laughed and...
GuyB.......didn't I say "whatever" in the post above and let it go?

I have laughed when people and I differ before. I have even laughed and agreed when people have showed me I am wrong. I think you are the one who has the burning desire to be correct, sir, not I. I just like to discuss things now and again when I have the time. I am on the road for extended periods of time when I can't get to a computer and like to go on here. I guess you don't want me on here?
I'm a fan of people who bring their posting A game. You'll have to decide if that includes you or not.
downandup
Profile picture for user downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA, USA
downandup 9/5/2012 1:57pm
9/5/2012 1:57pm
downandup wrote:
GuyB.......didn't I say "whatever" in the post above and let it go? I have laughed when people and I differ before. I have even laughed and...
GuyB.......didn't I say "whatever" in the post above and let it go?

I have laughed when people and I differ before. I have even laughed and agreed when people have showed me I am wrong. I think you are the one who has the burning desire to be correct, sir, not I. I just like to discuss things now and again when I have the time. I am on the road for extended periods of time when I can't get to a computer and like to go on here. I guess you don't want me on here?
GuyB wrote:
I'm a fan of people who bring their posting A game. You'll have to decide if that includes you or not.
I guess I don't, otherwise you wouldn't post this, Dad.
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
GuyB 9/5/2012 2:00pm
9/5/2012 2:00pm
downandup wrote:
I guess I don't, otherwise you wouldn't post this, Dad.
That's it. You're grounded. Smile

Post a reply to: Lake Elsinore crew making changes