All these used 2 stroke buyers speaking with their wallets...

newmann
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newmann
Edited Date/Time 3/17/2012 4:58pm
and probably a few used four stroke buyers . The aftermarket parts businesses appreciate you! There has been an increase in bike projects going on here lately where some of you have been ordering up truckloads of parts to freshen up some old rides. No doubt the oems have priced themselves out of the market on dirtbikes regardless of strokes.
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EastFlorida
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EastFlorida 3/16/2012 7:41am
3/16/2012 7:41am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2012 7:42am
I guess it would be difficult to compile data to support an increase of 2 stroke parts being sold. Even though it seems like a lot of projects are going on, it is small in comparison to when 2 strokes were the only choice. I imagine PC, FMF, etc, sold a lot more stuff back in 2000 than they are today.. There may be enough volume for them to justify building parts as needed to some degree...

Newman - I'm going to get back with you next week on possible arrangements. What else do you have incase I can work something out? PM me...
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/16/2012 7:59am
3/16/2012 7:59am
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
Deetsmx
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Deetsmx 3/16/2012 8:13am
3/16/2012 8:13am
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
It's not just on here, our local track has seen a huge resurgence of guys going back to 2-strokes. Actually, since quite a few are younger, it's probably their first time on one. A lot of these guys are coming off 250f's from what I've seen. When I went back in 06 I was pretty much the only one at our track on one and now there are a bunch. I used to buy 1 or 2 new bikes a year, haven't bought one since 06, I just go on craigslist and find like new smokers and scoop them up.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/16/2012 8:17am
3/16/2012 8:17am
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
Deetsmx wrote:
It's not just on here, our local track has seen a huge resurgence of guys going back to 2-strokes. Actually, since quite a few are younger...
It's not just on here, our local track has seen a huge resurgence of guys going back to 2-strokes. Actually, since quite a few are younger, it's probably their first time on one. A lot of these guys are coming off 250f's from what I've seen. When I went back in 06 I was pretty much the only one at our track on one and now there are a bunch. I used to buy 1 or 2 new bikes a year, haven't bought one since 06, I just go on craigslist and find like new smokers and scoop them up.
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to see the numbers. I have no idea what they would reflect and I wouldn't be surprised either way.

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EastFlorida
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EastFlorida 3/16/2012 8:23am
3/16/2012 8:23am
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
Deetsmx wrote:
It's not just on here, our local track has seen a huge resurgence of guys going back to 2-strokes. Actually, since quite a few are younger...
It's not just on here, our local track has seen a huge resurgence of guys going back to 2-strokes. Actually, since quite a few are younger, it's probably their first time on one. A lot of these guys are coming off 250f's from what I've seen. When I went back in 06 I was pretty much the only one at our track on one and now there are a bunch. I used to buy 1 or 2 new bikes a year, haven't bought one since 06, I just go on craigslist and find like new smokers and scoop them up.
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to...
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to see the numbers. I have no idea what they would reflect and I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Grape,

I think different areas are more affected. For example, I see Craislist adds posted on Vital for CHEAP 2 strokes. In my area, they are selling for a premium and the bikes are clapped out. In some cases, a 2001 2 stroke is selling for more than a 2005 4-stoke - it is becomming more common... A nice 2-stroke pulls top dollar in this area...
burn1986
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burn1986 3/16/2012 8:23am
3/16/2012 8:23am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2012 8:26am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to...
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to see the numbers. I have no idea what they would reflect and I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Why don't you just come out and say that you think 2-strokers are completely stupid for talking about 2-strokes, and should get a "4-stroke" life?
hellion
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hellion 3/16/2012 8:26am
3/16/2012 8:26am
I couldn't agree more. A good friend who runs a repair shop out of his house doing only moto stuff is so busy he can't keep up. With bikes getting closer and closer to ten grand I think this trend is only going to grow.

Really, how many people can afford to buy a new bike every year, and then do their suspension and motor and take care of upkeep. It's really getting ridiculous.

Moto is what I live and breathe so I make it happen for myself. My priorities are all messed up to the point where I'll buy parts for my bike and keep wearing the same clapped out shoes and clothes and not go out to dinner etc.. just so I can keep a nice machine.

But how many people are there like me. A small group for sure. Then there is another small group that has money to spare. But even adding these two groups together comes nowhere close to the numbers that were buying bikes back in the 70's and 80's.

Everyone wants to be mainstream and have same day tv and the money that comes with it, meanwhile the ground floor of our sport is collapsing and nobody who has any power is doing anything about it.
reded
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reded 3/16/2012 8:29am
3/16/2012 8:29am
Seems to me the OEMs hold the power. They build what they want and tell us that we'll race it or else....
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/16/2012 8:31am
3/16/2012 8:31am
EastFlorida wrote:
Grape, I think different areas are more affected. For example, I see Craislist adds posted on Vital for CHEAP 2 strokes. In my area, they are...
Grape,

I think different areas are more affected. For example, I see Craislist adds posted on Vital for CHEAP 2 strokes. In my area, they are selling for a premium and the bikes are clapped out. In some cases, a 2001 2 stroke is selling for more than a 2005 4-stoke - it is becomming more common... A nice 2-stroke pulls top dollar in this area...
Exactly. Case in point, Newmann has a basically brand new 2002 KX250 here in Texas that is such a steal that I am tempted to drive and pick it up. I am in awe that it is still for sale, and I am equally in awe how long it took him to sell the woody woodpecker CR250.

Again, that's why it would be interesting to see the nation-wide numbers to see how it averages out.
Riesenberg448 3/16/2012 8:35am
3/16/2012 8:35am
We are seeing a lot of suspension work, and a lot of it isn't new bikes.

Good for the industry, bad for the OEM's. Good news is, bikes are built so well today that a 4 year old bike isn't so bad.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/16/2012 8:36am
3/16/2012 8:36am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to...
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to see the numbers. I have no idea what they would reflect and I wouldn't be surprised either way.
burn1986 wrote:
Why don't you just come out and say that you think 2-strokers are completely stupid for talking about 2-strokes, and should get a "4-stroke" life?
I have no idea where that comment came from, but, okay. I don't think people that ride 2 stokes are stupid, I think there are a few people on this forum that are over-the-top stupid and they also just happen to be 2 stoke enthusiasts. My guess is those people also get picked on in other areas of life, they simply can't help themselves.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 3/16/2012 8:40am
3/16/2012 8:40am
reded wrote:
Seems to me the OEMs hold the power. They build what they want and tell us that we'll race it or else....
Much like the honey badger ..... I see a lot of similarities here
Lightning78
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Lightning78 3/16/2012 8:43am
3/16/2012 8:43am
And speaking of which..... I may be picking up a almost brand new RM250 if I do you guys are gonna shit a brick when you see how much I paid for it

Anyone interested in an 01 RM250 it may be going up for sale pretty cheap if this deal happens Wink
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tns 3/16/2012 8:45am
3/16/2012 8:45am
reded wrote:
Seems to me the OEMs hold the power. They build what they want and tell us that we'll race it or else....
and it seems here in the uk its or else and the growth in what we call the evo scene is huge some much so they are turning people away from series this year that had to combine classes a couple of years ago.Bikes are selling for good money around £2000 for a nice 89 cr125 or if you want to do our pre 83 british 125 championship a 83 cr 125 could cost you £3500
newmann
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newmann 3/16/2012 8:47am
3/16/2012 8:47am
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
Key word you used there is "sampling". That can be a pretty fair indicator whether on a forum or not. Trust me, it works for the tax auditors! LOL

And about FMF and PC's numbers. Do you think Emler would really be throwing those one and two page two stroke pipe ads in every magazine on the planet if they weren't selling any? Uncle Donnie's onto something. He was almost giving away four stroke pipes for the last few years with all of his ads reflecting deep discounts on those.
newmann
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newmann 3/16/2012 8:51am
3/16/2012 8:51am
GrapeApe wrote:
Exactly. Case in point, Newmann has a basically brand new 2002 KX250 here in Texas that is such a steal that I am tempted to drive...
Exactly. Case in point, Newmann has a basically brand new 2002 KX250 here in Texas that is such a steal that I am tempted to drive and pick it up. I am in awe that it is still for sale, and I am equally in awe how long it took him to sell the woody woodpecker CR250.

Again, that's why it would be interesting to see the nation-wide numbers to see how it averages out.
If I would actually put things up for sale instead of just offering them up here they might actually sell. Not everyone is willing to go through the hassle or costs of having a bike shipped or buying one sight unseen (in person).
stackman17
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stackman17 3/16/2012 8:55am
3/16/2012 8:55am
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
newmann wrote:
Key word you used there is "sampling". That can be a pretty fair indicator whether on a forum or not. Trust me, it works for the...
Key word you used there is "sampling". That can be a pretty fair indicator whether on a forum or not. Trust me, it works for the tax auditors! LOL

And about FMF and PC's numbers. Do you think Emler would really be throwing those one and two page two stroke pipe ads in every magazine on the planet if they weren't selling any? Uncle Donnie's onto something. He was almost giving away four stroke pipes for the last few years with all of his ads reflecting deep discounts on those.
I would suspect that it is a lot more than you may think. I am personally redoing a 01 CR 250, but did not feel the need to post. I spent two days at a local track this week and I commented to a friend about the large number of 2t at the facility. It may have come close to a 60/40 split towards 4t.

I have been watching DFW Craigslists for 2t for sometime. I have seen the price of 2000+ year model bikes creep upward toward the price of 4t. I personally traded an 06 CRF450 in good shape straight up for a 01 CR250R in fair shape. Yeah I lost money on it, but I got what I wanted and I am happier than a pig in mud.
reded
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reded 3/16/2012 8:56am
3/16/2012 8:56am
I never really gave it much thought until the last few minutes but this sport is really assinine in the way that it's constructed. I wonder how well it would go over if the auto makers said fuck it, we'll build our cars however we want and NASCAR can abide by our rules? If they wont let us run what we want, we'll pull out. How about football? Helmet manufacturers decide they don't wanna put facemasks on helmets any longer so the NFL just agrees and says ok? Where are the balls of the sanctioning bodies in this sport?

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Cancerman
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Cancerman 3/16/2012 9:02am
3/16/2012 9:02am
Deetsmx wrote:
It's not just on here, our local track has seen a huge resurgence of guys going back to 2-strokes. Actually, since quite a few are younger...
It's not just on here, our local track has seen a huge resurgence of guys going back to 2-strokes. Actually, since quite a few are younger, it's probably their first time on one. A lot of these guys are coming off 250f's from what I've seen. When I went back in 06 I was pretty much the only one at our track on one and now there are a bunch. I used to buy 1 or 2 new bikes a year, haven't bought one since 06, I just go on craigslist and find like new smokers and scoop them up.
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to...
I don't doubt what you say, I haven't noticed it in my neck of the woods through. That's why I think it would be interesting to see the numbers. I have no idea what they would reflect and I wouldn't be surprised either way.
EastFlorida wrote:
Grape, I think different areas are more affected. For example, I see Craislist adds posted on Vital for CHEAP 2 strokes. In my area, they are...
Grape,

I think different areas are more affected. For example, I see Craislist adds posted on Vital for CHEAP 2 strokes. In my area, they are selling for a premium and the bikes are clapped out. In some cases, a 2001 2 stroke is selling for more than a 2005 4-stoke - it is becomming more common... A nice 2-stroke pulls top dollar in this area...
I'm in Florida also, and last year I scored my RM 250 at parts bike price, as well as my Millsapps RM125 for same deal. This year everything has went up 25 to 50%, as far as used is concerned. High retail, as you will. A buddie of mine has a small shop, and we scoop up used smokers and bring them back to life, and flip them. It's very hard to find anything worth while, and I search from Jacksonville to Orlando and Tampa. But it took me awhile to unload my prestine CRF450. A young guy bought it, he can't even get it started half the time. I start it cold in 3 kicks, yet he has broken the kicker? Trying to start it like the smoker! I sold my 450 because I was always holding my breath waiting for the boom, yet with my smokers I can hear it coming and avoid a blow up. That, and I'm just not any faster on it. I can't ride it any faster than my 250 or 125, for that matter. It was fun though. To each his own. If I was a pro, I'm sure I need what the thumper offers though.
Spartacus
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Spartacus 3/16/2012 9:10am
3/16/2012 9:10am
It's hard to know whether something is the result of cause or effect. If the economy was rockin and everyone had a ton disposable income, would new 4T sale be up and used 2T sales/projects down?

We're just speculating unless a long term trend develops pretty much regardless of clear variables.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/16/2012 9:34am
3/16/2012 9:34am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2012 9:38am
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
"A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes . . ."

I guess I just don't see the point in that reply, other than you are disagreeing with Newmann's post.

Like you said, a half-dozen guys on a web forum is only a fraction of the number of actual guys out there who are buying and fixing up 2-strokes. 10 years is only 2002. It's obvious that the smarter choice would be to buy a used 2-stroke and fix it up rather than try and fix up a used 4-stroke or buy a new/ used 4-stroke. Of course, 2-strokes have less parts to be replaced, so there would possibly be less money spent on parts, which may not be speaking with your wallet.

I'm not sure if there's a 2-stroke resurgence more than local guys switching back to the 2-stroke.
themrtoad
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themrtoad 3/16/2012 9:34am
3/16/2012 9:34am
For what it's worth I'm looking for a 250 twostroke 2000-2010 in mint condition( an used bike)
There are about 10-15 bikes totally all over the country, and they disappear faster then water in the desert...Much more demand than supply by far.

Is it a new trend? Not really, been going on for a while but supply/demand is getting worse
Prices? Twostrokes in good condition are far far from cheap...
What does it mean? People with money to spend( 30-40yo) are tired of fourtstrokes.

The future? Maybe todays kids will be stupid enough to continue to buy 4strokes, but the generation in charge right now with a historical perspective won't take it anylonger.

Damn I hate fourstrokes!!!!!
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GrapeApe 3/16/2012 9:38am
3/16/2012 9:38am
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
burn1986 wrote:
"A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes . . ." I guess I just don't see the point in that reply, other than you...
"A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes . . ."

I guess I just don't see the point in that reply, other than you are disagreeing with Newmann's post.

Like you said, a half-dozen guys on a web forum is only a fraction of the number of actual guys out there who are buying and fixing up 2-strokes. 10 years is only 2002. It's obvious that the smarter choice would be to buy a used 2-stroke and fix it up rather than try and fix up a used 4-stroke or buy a new/ used 4-stroke. Of course, 2-strokes have less parts to be replaced, so there would possibly be less money spent on parts, which may not be speaking with your wallet.

I'm not sure if there's a 2-stroke resurgence more than local guys switching back to the 2-stroke.
Once again I have no idea what your point is, but, okay.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/16/2012 9:51am
3/16/2012 9:51am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2012 10:06am
edited
yanks_178
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yanks_178 3/16/2012 10:01am
3/16/2012 10:01am
I'm poor and can't afford a 10K stock dirtbike.. I can afford a modded out YZ 144 or an 03 YZ 250.. I have just as much fun on my 2 strokes as somebody on a 4 stroke.. I've ridden both and I was faster racing a 4 stroke but I'm too old to race now and just ride for fun. I don't care how many strokes it has as long as it runs, is cheap and is FUN!!!!
Torco1
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Torco1 3/16/2012 10:01am
3/16/2012 10:01am
Christ.......why the F does this even matter? Do we really need to have a civil (or not so civil) war about this 2 stroke/ 4 stroke shit? Ride what you like or what your budget allows. Fact is, 4-stokes are not going anywhere anytime soon and there are plenty of 2-strokes out there for those that choose to ride them.

GuyB
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GuyB 3/16/2012 10:03am
3/16/2012 10:03am
I think the phrase you guys have been butchering lately is...

vote with their wallet.

Other than that...carry on. Wink
burn1986
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burn1986 3/16/2012 10:20am
3/16/2012 10:20am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2012 10:20am
Yeah, that's the phrase, alright. I think jmar coined that one. Even so, I agree with Newmann in that the US companies respond to speaking with our wallets, unlike the OEMs, who obviously aren't motivated by sales.
Hando
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Hando 3/16/2012 10:30am
3/16/2012 10:30am
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
reded
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reded 3/16/2012 10:34am
3/16/2012 10:34am
I can tell you one thing, gone are the days of a 16 yr old mowing lawns to support his moto habit, at least in my part of the country.

Post a reply to: All these used 2 stroke buyers speaking with their wallets...