Clarification Please:

pitbike502
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Edited Date/Time 2/25/2012 3:34pm
Im not saying Im right, and Jason Thomas gave a Pros perspective in another thread disproving this, but can someone please post the official AMA rule stating this statement from racerhead?:

Speaking of Mike Alessi, I mentioned that $500 fine. The AMA rulebook explicitly states that riders must line up straight behind the starting gate, but Mike moved his motorcycle over a bit as the 30-second board was up. He ended up with a great start, beaten to the first turn by only one rider: little brother Jeff Alessi! Jeff earned $1,500 for the Nuclear Cowboyz Holeshot bonus; Mike lost $500 for the illegal start.

I just find it hard to believe his team would let him do this if there was an ACTUAL rule. I am not necessarily siding with him and his choice, but I am still believing my theory that he was in the proper starting area that the "rules" have set up, and if there is an empty legitmate gate, maybe they should be putting riders in there instead of this contraversy. We could have used 200 lbs Weston Pieck give Alessi an elbow or push if he impeded his start rather than penalize him for something that every fan is lit up about
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pitbike502
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2/24/2012 10:35pm
Also, to disprove this statement, wasnt it said that an offical had warned him prior and he was in the process of moving (whether he actually did or not)? If so, theres a lot of speculation on this start..
GHR
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2/24/2012 11:45pm
Listen to PulpMX show, Kenny Watson speaks at length about this deal and apparently has it all on film. I havent checked but I think he said he would put up a link to the video too...Its all in Show #82...

Yes they should have put Peick in the Gate, they really screwed him over too.

Kenny Watson said he would pay that 500 fine everytime if his riders could do what Alessi did. They actually told JH100 he would get docked points or a position for doing it. Then went over and told Alessi its a fine, apparently I hear Alessi old mechanic was the decesion maker at the AMA on that fine? Not sure, just what I heard on Pulp.
kongols
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2/24/2012 11:58pm
This is from the AMA/FIM SX rule book Page 30

p. Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate. Riders may
not start at an angle.
pitbike502
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2/25/2012 1:11am
kongols wrote:
This is from the AMA/FIM SX rule book Page 30 p. Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate. Riders may not start at an angle...
This is from the AMA/FIM SX rule book Page 30

p. Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate. Riders may
not start at an angle.
I didn't realize that, I flipped through my local district rule book and didn't see anything.

The Shop

mxtech1
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2/25/2012 8:18am
What mike did gave him such a huge advantage because he had a much more direct line to the apex of the first turn. I don't understand why a starter of such a good caliber would do something like that to tarnish his reputation as being a good starter. You have to realize he had thought about doing this before the race or else he wouldn't had lined up so far outside when he probably could have gotten closer to the doghouse.

I've seen many times in a 40 rider gate in mx where a rider with a very outside gate pick will dog it out of the gate and then immediately cut down to the inside behind the pack. As the pack flows through the first corner and pushes outside, that rider is in a good position to sweep tight inside and pick up many positions (i've seen riders come through in the top 10 before.) I've seen guys try to do this in SX, but it doesn't always work well because the corners are alot tighter and the pack stays balled up. It does work good though if there is a large pile up on the outside.

Here's my question, if all the AMA is going to do is fine $500, why wouldn't he do it every time? Pay the $500 with his $1500 holeshot money. The rewards, getting into the lead at the start, far out-weigh the $500 consequence. I would say there needs to be a stiffer penalty. First offense $500 fine, caught more than one time results in automatic black flag. Repeat offenders doing it in the main should not be allowed to qualify for the main and their spot should be filled with the next fastest rider.
35smom
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2/25/2012 8:26am
mxtech1 wrote:
What mike did gave him such a huge advantage because he had a much more direct line to the apex of the first turn. I don't...
What mike did gave him such a huge advantage because he had a much more direct line to the apex of the first turn. I don't understand why a starter of such a good caliber would do something like that to tarnish his reputation as being a good starter. You have to realize he had thought about doing this before the race or else he wouldn't had lined up so far outside when he probably could have gotten closer to the doghouse.

I've seen many times in a 40 rider gate in mx where a rider with a very outside gate pick will dog it out of the gate and then immediately cut down to the inside behind the pack. As the pack flows through the first corner and pushes outside, that rider is in a good position to sweep tight inside and pick up many positions (i've seen riders come through in the top 10 before.) I've seen guys try to do this in SX, but it doesn't always work well because the corners are alot tighter and the pack stays balled up. It does work good though if there is a large pile up on the outside.

Here's my question, if all the AMA is going to do is fine $500, why wouldn't he do it every time? Pay the $500 with his $1500 holeshot money. The rewards, getting into the lead at the start, far out-weigh the $500 consequence. I would say there needs to be a stiffer penalty. First offense $500 fine, caught more than one time results in automatic black flag. Repeat offenders doing it in the main should not be allowed to qualify for the main and their spot should be filled with the next fastest rider.
No. Subsequent offenses are more money and I believe a 3rd offense may carry suspension or some type of realted action.
jndmx
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2/25/2012 8:37am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2012 8:38am
Same night, same gate drop...Josh Hansen was lined up all the way inside but next to the rut in his gate.
The AMA official told Hansen if he didn't get his bike into the rut correctly it would be a loss of points or he would be docked a lap.
MX558
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2/25/2012 8:41am
If there's a way to cheat the Alessi's will find it. What a bunch of douche bags. I hope they never win shit.
mxtech1
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2/25/2012 9:21am
jndmx wrote:
Same night, same gate drop...Josh Hansen was lined up all the way inside but next to the rut in his gate. The AMA official told Hansen...
Same night, same gate drop...Josh Hansen was lined up all the way inside but next to the rut in his gate.
The AMA official told Hansen if he didn't get his bike into the rut correctly it would be a loss of points or he would be docked a lap.
That's very interesting. Is there a rule that says you have to be centered on the width of the gate when you line up straight? so you can't shift to the right or left to avoid the rut?
SteveS
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2/25/2012 9:25am
The rule is quoted above in this thread. It says "centered in the starting gate"
35smom
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2/25/2012 9:32am
Then become part of that change. A few of us here have spoke up and proposed new rules. You have a say if you indeed are truly interested in change...
WhKnuckle
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2/25/2012 9:36am
MX558 wrote:
If there's a way to cheat the Alessi's will find it. What a bunch of douche bags. I hope they never win shit.
That's kind of harsh, don't you think? Alessi may not have even known that was a rule - I sure didn't. And apparently neither did Hansen.
kongols
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2/25/2012 9:37am
MX558 wrote:
If there's a way to cheat the Alessi's will find it. What a bunch of douche bags. I hope they never win shit.
WhKnuckle wrote:
That's kind of harsh, don't you think? Alessi may not have even known that was a rule - I sure didn't. And apparently neither did Hansen.
He was asked by official to move back where he was and he didn`t obey his request.
WhKnuckle
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2/25/2012 9:51am
SteveS wrote:
The rule is quoted above in this thread. It says "centered in the starting gate"
"Centered in the starting gate" may mean "Front wheel must be in the center of the starting gate", no? Does that necessarily mean, "Motorcycle must be at a perpendicular angle to the starting gate"?

My point is, it's not much of an infraction to get all hot and bothered about.
PressPassP
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2/25/2012 9:57am
MX558 wrote:
If there's a way to cheat the Alessi's will find it. What a bunch of douche bags. I hope they never win shit.
WhKnuckle wrote:
That's kind of harsh, don't you think? Alessi may not have even known that was a rule - I sure didn't. And apparently neither did Hansen.
kongols wrote:
He was asked by official to move back where he was and he didn`t obey his request.
He did it,then disobeyed an official,that's an offence full stop. Was it the first time he'd tried it? Give him the benefit of the doubt maybe,but I'm sure there are people digging through footage of previous races,afterall the guy has a reputation that's not too good.
SteveS
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2/25/2012 10:07am
SteveS wrote:
The rule is quoted above in this thread. It says "centered in the starting gate"
WhKnuckle wrote:
"Centered in the starting gate" may mean "Front wheel must be in the center of the starting gate", no? Does that necessarily mean, "Motorcycle must be...
"Centered in the starting gate" may mean "Front wheel must be in the center of the starting gate", no? Does that necessarily mean, "Motorcycle must be at a perpendicular angle to the starting gate"?

My point is, it's not much of an infraction to get all hot and bothered about.
The second half of the rule is: Riders may not start at an angle.

It's a very simple and clear rule, written in simple and clear language. No legalese, no interpretations, nothing. Just plain English.
2/25/2012 10:11am
SteveS wrote:
The rule is quoted above in this thread. It says "centered in the starting gate"
WhKnuckle wrote:
"Centered in the starting gate" may mean "Front wheel must be in the center of the starting gate", no? Does that necessarily mean, "Motorcycle must be...
"Centered in the starting gate" may mean "Front wheel must be in the center of the starting gate", no? Does that necessarily mean, "Motorcycle must be at a perpendicular angle to the starting gate"?

My point is, it's not much of an infraction to get all hot and bothered about.
What part of the rule don't you understand??
MX558
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2/25/2012 10:19am
MX558 wrote:
If there's a way to cheat the Alessi's will find it. What a bunch of douche bags. I hope they never win shit.
WhKnuckle wrote:
That's kind of harsh, don't you think? Alessi may not have even known that was a rule - I sure didn't. And apparently neither did Hansen.
If it was his 1st offense at cheating I would cut him some slack but look at the history. I was a big fan of his when he first made pro, not anymore.
WhKnuckle
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2/25/2012 11:15am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2012 11:15am
SteveS wrote:
The rule is quoted above in this thread. It says "centered in the starting gate"
WhKnuckle wrote:
"Centered in the starting gate" may mean "Front wheel must be in the center of the starting gate", no? Does that necessarily mean, "Motorcycle must be...
"Centered in the starting gate" may mean "Front wheel must be in the center of the starting gate", no? Does that necessarily mean, "Motorcycle must be at a perpendicular angle to the starting gate"?

My point is, it's not much of an infraction to get all hot and bothered about.
SteveS wrote:
The second half of the rule is: Riders may not start at an angle. It's a very simple and clear rule, written in simple and clear...
The second half of the rule is: Riders may not start at an angle.

It's a very simple and clear rule, written in simple and clear language. No legalese, no interpretations, nothing. Just plain English.
OK. You're right, that's an infraction and he got fined. Done deal. Everybody survived, and it gave VitalMX something to talk about. It's a win-win.
wildbill
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2/25/2012 11:37am
rabble rouser! Wink
jndmx
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2/25/2012 3:34pm
So in other words you would rather just bitch about it on the internet than do anything.

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