Neck Brace WARS?

newmann
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2/21/2012 8:09am
loftyair wrote:
Leatt designed a Leatt brace, but didn't invent shit. Just like A-star and evs designed theirs, but no invention was made. You never seen a neck...
Leatt designed a Leatt brace, but didn't invent shit. Just like A-star and evs designed theirs, but no invention was made. You never seen a neck brace before Leatt? They apparently patented some design parts. Neck-donuts have been around forever, just because you make it out of a different material doesn't mean you invented something new.
CamP wrote:
You sound young...
Well Cam, what do you have to say about this? I am sure it will be gold... Jeff Nxxxxxxx Brady...can you tell people what it is...
Well Cam, what do you have to say about this?
I am sure it will be gold...

Jeff Nxxxxxxx
Brady...can you tell people what it is exactly about the Atlas that is supposedly 'infringing' on Leatt? I mean, they're all braces, but the Altas seems unique (and better, may i add) in many ways... I just heard about the lawsuit the other day, and can only shake my head... Sorry to hear about it...but I am confused how the astars design didn't get legal assault, too?
12 hours ago

Brady Sheren
We don't infringe. Bottom line this is their first product, first patents and they feel untouchable because they blew up and have a bunch of money. But our team also has money, but on top of that we have a ton of experience.. and you can't buy experience... so we took the initiative to file a declaratory action of non infringement so that we can hopefully get passed this soon. They didn't invent "the neck brace", and our products differ in every way. We have done extensive research on patents from various companies and made sure that we did not infringe during our design process and wilfully enter the market with a product that steps on other peoples toes. The reason our product exists is because it is different, and people need choices. Some are going to like our product, some are going to like others... thats why we all have options. Trying to create a monopoly on a market is only going to hurt development and safety.... the only people that suffer are all of us riders... sad really.
12 hours ago
I'm not Cam, but the first thing I notice is that Jeff Nxxxxx is poorly informed as he has heard nothing of Alpinestars legal issues with Leatt. Secondly, what are his qualifications to say that the Atlas is unique and better in many ways? What ways? I'm no engineer of any sort and I don't like the looks of that piece of cable that runs across the back of the neck. I'd like to see how they tested that to confirm that it is 100% safe in the event of a crash.

As for the response. Good for them. If they don't infringe in any way then they should be allowed to bring their product to market without any interference from Leatt. If Leatt doesn't have the proper patents in place and is obstructing Atlas from legitimately selling their product, then they should be held accountable. But, every jackass on the internet wants to see all the test data from Leatt, why aren't they demanding the same from Atlas?
Sparkalounger
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2/21/2012 8:17am
your post sounds bitter to me, like you have interest in Leatt or a close friend involved...
I am sure people will want to see testing from Atlas as well. But like he said, "The reason our product exists is because it is different, and people need choices. Some are going to like our product, some are going to like others... thats why we all have options."
Look, our sport had a coulpe of bad injuries right when Leatt came to market and A LOT of people tried to make anyone who didn't want to buy one feel guilty and then they pushed back. IMO, that is the bottom line.
kardy
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2/21/2012 8:32am
newmann wrote:
I'm not Cam, but the first thing I notice is that Jeff Nxxxxx is poorly informed as he has heard nothing of Alpinestars legal issues with...
I'm not Cam, but the first thing I notice is that Jeff Nxxxxx is poorly informed as he has heard nothing of Alpinestars legal issues with Leatt. Secondly, what are his qualifications to say that the Atlas is unique and better in many ways? What ways? I'm no engineer of any sort and I don't like the looks of that piece of cable that runs across the back of the neck. I'd like to see how they tested that to confirm that it is 100% safe in the event of a crash.

As for the response. Good for them. If they don't infringe in any way then they should be allowed to bring their product to market without any interference from Leatt. If Leatt doesn't have the proper patents in place and is obstructing Atlas from legitimately selling their product, then they should be held accountable. But, every jackass on the internet wants to see all the test data from Leatt, why aren't they demanding the same from Atlas?
The cable is gone, been replaced with a piece of rubber. Happy now?

newmann
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2/21/2012 8:50am
your post sounds bitter to me, like you have interest in Leatt or a close friend involved... I am sure people will want to see testing...
your post sounds bitter to me, like you have interest in Leatt or a close friend involved...
I am sure people will want to see testing from Atlas as well. But like he said, "The reason our product exists is because it is different, and people need choices. Some are going to like our product, some are going to like others... thats why we all have options."
Look, our sport had a coulpe of bad injuries right when Leatt came to market and A LOT of people tried to make anyone who didn't want to buy one feel guilty and then they pushed back. IMO, that is the bottom line.
Not bitter at all. No ties to Leatt although there are three of them in our family. I actually got the AStars SBS first but after looking at and trying on the non adjustable three dollar squirt molded looking piece of plastic I sent it back and bought myself a Leatt too. That was a few years back . Can't say I like the hassle of putting the Leatt on with my current Troy Lee chest protector as they do not go together at all. Gotta get a new chest protector, another expense related to the Leatt. Guessing most of the new chest protectors are designed with neck braces in mind so that may not be much of an issue anymore.

The Shop

newmann
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2/21/2012 8:55am
kardy wrote:
The cable is gone, been replaced with a piece of rubber. Happy now? [img]http://kardyphoto.com/modules/PHOTOS/gallery/2012/SX/DFW/images/O_S_12_21_10788.jpg[/img]
The cable is gone, been replaced with a piece of rubber. Happy now?

So they saw an issue and dealt with it? Good for them. Guess I wasn't the only one then, right?? I can appreciate their efforts to make a better product. But you have to admit it is funny that anytime someone mentions Leatt making a change they say it's admitting fault. Gotta love the internets.
Wandell
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2/21/2012 9:50am
Leatt makes that brace for Fly Racing. THey also make a version for TLD. Really they are just kinda "special edition" Leatt braces.
Motodave15
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2/21/2012 10:01am
chillrich wrote:
[img]http://www.directmotocross.com/sites/default/files/pictures/01-05-2011/FLYZENITHNECK.jpg[/img] Wonder how these guys have done it? [url=http://www.directmotocross.com/news/features/2012/02/frideh-update-7-presented-gamma-sales]http://www.directmotocross.com/news/features/2012/02/frideh-update-7-presented-gamma-sales[/url]
Those are leatts with different pad colors......anybody would notice that except, some people who dont follow mx
Switch
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2/21/2012 10:43am
chillrich wrote:
[img]http://www.directmotocross.com/sites/default/files/pictures/01-05-2011/FLYZENITHNECK.jpg[/img] Wonder how these guys have done it? [url=http://www.directmotocross.com/news/features/2012/02/frideh-update-7-presented-gamma-sales]http://www.directmotocross.com/news/features/2012/02/frideh-update-7-presented-gamma-sales[/url]
Motodave15 wrote:
Those are leatts with different pad colors......anybody would notice that except, some people who dont follow mx
Its a FLY Zenith neck brace... did you not click the link?
Motodave15
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2/21/2012 10:51am
Switch wrote:
Its a FLY Zenith neck brace... did you not click the link?
Lmao, yes i did....now go look at leatts and tell me what's different? besides the color scheme and prints that say fly.
Switch
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2/21/2012 3:18pm
Switch wrote:
Its a FLY Zenith neck brace... did you not click the link?
Motodave15 wrote:
Lmao, yes i did....now go look at leatts and tell me what's different? besides the color scheme and prints that say fly.
Sarcasm is hard to read online, but I wasn't serious. Your first post was spot on.
2/21/2012 3:25pm
Here is Brady's response I copied off of mxforum

"Yeah no problem... I had written this to Big wave for friday update a week and half ago...

We obviously believe very strongly in our product. For the team involved in Atlas, this is far from our first rodeo… we have been around the block several times and dealt with Patents, law suits, bringing products to market and everything in-between for many many years and would never enter a market with bad intentions. We have our own very unique ideas and concepts, and we research these ideas very carefully to see what is possible and what isn't. If we truly felt we were stepping on someones toes, we would not enter that market. The Atlas Brace is a product of very careful consideration and was designed only after in-depth analysis of multiple Patents in order to truly be unique... So unique that we also have multiple Patents Pending of our own. For companies to believe they can monopolize an entire market that they weren't the first to enter, is appalling. Also, for protection companies to be so focussed on Law Suits rather than keeping riders safe is also very disturbing. As a rider, my heart is with other riders, and that is why I designed and will continue to evolve the Atlas Brace.

As that one sided press release you included a link to says in the fine print... WE actually sued them first. They sent us (and everyone else) a cease and desist, and we responded with a Declaratory Action of Non-Infringement.. and now they have countered. We obviously believe strongly in our position and we have done our homework... I guess it will have to be up to a Judge now.

Its very unfortunate that some people want to do business this way. We are trying to keep riders safe with a very unique product... lets focus on that and give people a choice... not everyone wants their product, and not everyone is going to want mine.. I'm ok with that, thats why there is options. A monopoly is not going to progress brace technology, or help to save riders.

Anyways, business for us will continue as usual.. and we will have some more news to announce shortly that I am veryyyyyyy excited about! "
BW84
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2/21/2012 4:57pm
I still would like to try a Atlas, I personally have no interest in a Leatt and the Omega was the only brace that caught my eye before the Atlas. Any regular Joe out there tried one yet?
kardy
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Newport, OR, USA
2/21/2012 5:01pm
BW84 wrote:
I still would like to try a Atlas, I personally have no interest in a Leatt and the Omega was the only brace that caught my...
I still would like to try a Atlas, I personally have no interest in a Leatt and the Omega was the only brace that caught my eye before the Atlas. Any regular Joe out there tried one yet?
They aren't out yet.
NeWskoolmxer
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2/21/2012 5:04pm
DGAF, Bro they are false safety devices backed by word of mouth.
chillrich
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Kamloops, CA
2/22/2012 8:56am Edited Date/Time 2/22/2012 8:58am
Motodave15 wrote:
Those are leatts with different pad colors......anybody would notice that except, some people who dont follow mx
My question was how they did it, licensing agreement, I was curious if anyone had insight of some value. Obviously you do not. ,l,,
Wandell
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Cairo, GA, USA
2/22/2012 10:17am
Wandell wrote:
Leatt makes that brace for Fly Racing. THey also make a version for TLD. Really they are just kinda "special edition" Leatt braces.
Once again. Look at Fly and TLD's websites. They both say the braces are made by Leatt. If you pay Leatt enough they will make you your own line of special edition braces.
swaldrop
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2/27/2014 8:06am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2014 8:26am
I have had a Leatt brace since they first came out and I believe it has saved my butt (neck rather) a few times. I just got an Atlas brace as part of their trade in program and while it is a bit heaver, it fits very nicely. I don't think the extra bit of weight will be an issue at all.

I have not yet ridden with it and of course have not crashed with it, but I do have some concerns. When I tried it on with my helmet and tested the fore, aft and side to side movements, I couldn't help but notice that my chin (actual chin, not chin of the helmet) made direct contact with the hard plastic of the brace when placing my head down. In the few times that I have crashed in a manner where I feel the neck brace did it's job, each time it was in that head down/against my chest as I had flipped in such a way to land in the back of my head. I hit so hard one time that my sternum was bruised for a week or two. Neck felt amazing, but the force was properly distributed through my body and I was happy with the outcome. The Leatt brace allows for a large enough opening up front where the helmet is the only thing making contact with the brace, which I feel is a much more logical design. Your chin does not touch the brace.

If I were to crash with the Atlas brace, I fear that now my face/chin/teeth stand a pretty good chance at absorbing some of that force and with that hard plastic, that is not going to be good.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a valid concern, or would the helmet still take all of the force?

I posted this over on Thumpertalk as well, so I apologize for the apparent post spam. Just trying to get this figured out before I ride with it in the event I need to send it back and stick with what I know to work in the Leatt.

To add to this, I really like the way the Atlas fits otherwise and feel the way it distributes force through the rest of the body is a superior design. I am just concerned with the potential contact made with my chin and/or throat.
dedi684
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2/27/2014 9:15am
I just traded in my leatt for the atlas as well. Havent received mine yet though.
seth505
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2/27/2014 10:09am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2014 10:15am
CamP wrote:
How many neck braces would be on the market today if Leatt never invented it?
loftyair wrote:
Leatt designed a Leatt brace, but didn't invent shit. Just like A-star and evs designed theirs, but no invention was made. You never seen a neck...
Leatt designed a Leatt brace, but didn't invent shit. Just like A-star and evs designed theirs, but no invention was made. You never seen a neck brace before Leatt? They apparently patented some design parts. Neck-donuts have been around forever, just because you make it out of a different material doesn't mean you invented something new.
I might try an atlas.....hmmm
swaldrop
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2/27/2014 10:55am
I just did some more fit testing and even recorded a couple videos so I could see what was going on. I think it comes down to how my head sits in my helmet and where the helmet rests on the brace. I don't believe it is a flaw in how the Atlas brace was designed but rather how a series of parts (my chin, Arai helmet and Atlas brace) simply don't work well together.

Don't let this change your mind about any brace. Lesson here is that you should always try on these kind of things before making a purchase as you just never know how it is going to work with your set up.
IceMan446
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2/27/2014 11:16am
swaldrop wrote:
I just did some more fit testing and even recorded a couple videos so I could see what was going on. I think it comes down...
I just did some more fit testing and even recorded a couple videos so I could see what was going on. I think it comes down to how my head sits in my helmet and where the helmet rests on the brace. I don't believe it is a flaw in how the Atlas brace was designed but rather how a series of parts (my chin, Arai helmet and Atlas brace) simply don't work well together.

Don't let this change your mind about any brace. Lesson here is that you should always try on these kind of things before making a purchase as you just never know how it is going to work with your set up.
I have also noticed my Chin is right at the bottom of my Arai. Like the bottom edge of the helmet lines up with my chin/jaw line. My TLD goes a little further down past that.

I tried on the Shoei and it felt like the helmet went down even further than my TLD lid. But the Shoei just didn't fit my head that well.

I am really trying to figure out if I want an Atlas brace or not. I have been on the fence and just haven't decided to pull the trigger yet. I never have been a big neck brace guy but the Atlas is different from the Leatt which is why I am considering it.

Thanks for the info. Good to get a little feedback from someone who has tried both. Its like a helmet though, some fit some dont.
COAL-TRAIN
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2/27/2014 11:16am
My problem is finding one that dosnt slip up my neck...what do you guys recommend?

IceMan446
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2/27/2014 11:18am
Motodave15 wrote:
Those are leatts with different pad colors......anybody would notice that except, some people who dont follow mx
chillrich wrote:
My question was how they did it, licensing agreement, I was curious if anyone had insight of some value. Obviously you do not. ,l,,
Leatt also makes a FLY chest protector that is an exact copy of the Leatt version. Just branded with the FLY logo.
swaldrop
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2/27/2014 11:32am
Yeah, I was waiting for someone to point that out :/ Turns out, people still buy neck braces. Who knew?

As far as the Arai goes, for me and that helmet, the Atlas won't work. I also tried an older TLD helmet I had the same issue. Maybe the problem is just me? My chin definitely sticks out below the bottom of the helmet and it first to make contact with the brace.
GuyB
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2/27/2014 11:34am
swaldrop wrote:
I have had a Leatt brace since they first came out and I believe it has saved my butt (neck rather) a few times. I just...
I have had a Leatt brace since they first came out and I believe it has saved my butt (neck rather) a few times. I just got an Atlas brace as part of their trade in program and while it is a bit heaver, it fits very nicely. I don't think the extra bit of weight will be an issue at all.

I have not yet ridden with it and of course have not crashed with it, but I do have some concerns. When I tried it on with my helmet and tested the fore, aft and side to side movements, I couldn't help but notice that my chin (actual chin, not chin of the helmet) made direct contact with the hard plastic of the brace when placing my head down. In the few times that I have crashed in a manner where I feel the neck brace did it's job, each time it was in that head down/against my chest as I had flipped in such a way to land in the back of my head. I hit so hard one time that my sternum was bruised for a week or two. Neck felt amazing, but the force was properly distributed through my body and I was happy with the outcome. The Leatt brace allows for a large enough opening up front where the helmet is the only thing making contact with the brace, which I feel is a much more logical design. Your chin does not touch the brace.

If I were to crash with the Atlas brace, I fear that now my face/chin/teeth stand a pretty good chance at absorbing some of that force and with that hard plastic, that is not going to be good.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a valid concern, or would the helmet still take all of the force?

I posted this over on Thumpertalk as well, so I apologize for the apparent post spam. Just trying to get this figured out before I ride with it in the event I need to send it back and stick with what I know to work in the Leatt.

To add to this, I really like the way the Atlas fits otherwise and feel the way it distributes force through the rest of the body is a superior design. I am just concerned with the potential contact made with my chin and/or throat.
swaldrop, it's a reasonable question, but in the future can you post as a new thread and not bump up two-year-old stuff? Thanks. Smile
GuyB
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2/27/2014 11:34am
COAL-TRAIN wrote:
My problem is finding one that dosnt slip up my neck...what do you guys recommend? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/02/27/46968/s1200_coal.jpg[/img]
My problem is finding one that dosnt slip up my neck...what do you guys recommend?

Run a lower PSI on that neck donut.
DoctorJD
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Somewhere in..., GA, USA
2/27/2014 11:35am
I traded my Leatt for an Atlas, I've ridden with it a couple of times. I guess the ultimate test would be how it performs in a crash, thankfully, I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing that. That being said, here are my initial observations:

The design is very simple and minimalist, no clasps or latches, just pull it over your head and go.

Integrates nicely with my Fox Proframe.

Low maintanance. Hard plastic shell. just spray it down with some water when you're done riding and wipe it off.

The Atlas is less noticeable than my Leatt. It's a tad lower profile ( even with the extra padding in), which could be good or bad, I guess.

Yes, the outer laminate is a hard plastic, and not the foam like the Leatt. Really not sure what kind of bearing this would have in a crash, I think it would be marginal.


Again, the ultimate test of a neck brace is how it performs in a crash, so thats yet to be determined. And I hope I don't have to find out.
swaldrop
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Tampa, FL, USA
2/27/2014 11:40am
swaldrop wrote:
I have had a Leatt brace since they first came out and I believe it has saved my butt (neck rather) a few times. I just...
I have had a Leatt brace since they first came out and I believe it has saved my butt (neck rather) a few times. I just got an Atlas brace as part of their trade in program and while it is a bit heaver, it fits very nicely. I don't think the extra bit of weight will be an issue at all.

I have not yet ridden with it and of course have not crashed with it, but I do have some concerns. When I tried it on with my helmet and tested the fore, aft and side to side movements, I couldn't help but notice that my chin (actual chin, not chin of the helmet) made direct contact with the hard plastic of the brace when placing my head down. In the few times that I have crashed in a manner where I feel the neck brace did it's job, each time it was in that head down/against my chest as I had flipped in such a way to land in the back of my head. I hit so hard one time that my sternum was bruised for a week or two. Neck felt amazing, but the force was properly distributed through my body and I was happy with the outcome. The Leatt brace allows for a large enough opening up front where the helmet is the only thing making contact with the brace, which I feel is a much more logical design. Your chin does not touch the brace.

If I were to crash with the Atlas brace, I fear that now my face/chin/teeth stand a pretty good chance at absorbing some of that force and with that hard plastic, that is not going to be good.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a valid concern, or would the helmet still take all of the force?

I posted this over on Thumpertalk as well, so I apologize for the apparent post spam. Just trying to get this figured out before I ride with it in the event I need to send it back and stick with what I know to work in the Leatt.

To add to this, I really like the way the Atlas fits otherwise and feel the way it distributes force through the rest of the body is a superior design. I am just concerned with the potential contact made with my chin and/or throat.
GuyB wrote:
swaldrop, it's a reasonable question, but in the future can you post as a new thread and not bump up two-year-old stuff? Thanks. Smile
I could, but wouldn't posting to an older thread be more effective in garnering a relevant response, allowing those involved in the original one an opportunity to chime in?
swaldrop
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Tampa, FL, USA
2/27/2014 11:44am
DoctorJD wrote:
I traded my Leatt for an Atlas, I've ridden with it a couple of times. I guess the ultimate test would be how it performs in...
I traded my Leatt for an Atlas, I've ridden with it a couple of times. I guess the ultimate test would be how it performs in a crash, thankfully, I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing that. That being said, here are my initial observations:

The design is very simple and minimalist, no clasps or latches, just pull it over your head and go.

Integrates nicely with my Fox Proframe.

Low maintanance. Hard plastic shell. just spray it down with some water when you're done riding and wipe it off.

The Atlas is less noticeable than my Leatt. It's a tad lower profile ( even with the extra padding in), which could be good or bad, I guess.

Yes, the outer laminate is a hard plastic, and not the foam like the Leatt. Really not sure what kind of bearing this would have in a crash, I think it would be marginal.


Again, the ultimate test of a neck brace is how it performs in a crash, so thats yet to be determined. And I hope I don't have to find out.
I agree that a crash is ultimately going be the best way to test it's merits. The thing is, my chin doesn't touch the Leatt at all really, padding or not. It's not so much that the Atlas is a hard shell plastic, but more the fact that it isn't situated, in my case, to effectively eliminate that contact.

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