It's beating me down

CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider
Edited Date/Time 2/13/2012 4:46pm
The stuck swingarm bolt in my 2000 CR500 that is. I've beat, I've oiled and I've heated as much as I feel safe doing. Any words of wisdom before I stick it in the shop press?
|
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/22/2012 6:48pm
1/22/2012 6:48pm
CR500Rider wrote:
The stuck swingarm bolt in my 2000 CR500 that is. I've beat, I've oiled and I've heated as much as I feel safe doing. Any words...
The stuck swingarm bolt in my 2000 CR500 that is. I've beat, I've oiled and I've heated as much as I feel safe doing. Any words of wisdom before I stick it in the shop press?
Ive gotten stuck rusty shafts free with a commercial rust dissolver. I don't know what it was called but you should be able to find something at a local industrial supply store. Lay the bike on its side and keep pouring small amounts down the bolt. It will come out eventually.
RMRider1
Profile picture for user RMRider1
Posts
339
Joined
12/15/2011
Location
Syracuse, NY, USA
RMRider1 1/25/2012 4:31am
1/25/2012 4:31am
PB Blaster. Spray it on repeatedly, it should do the trick eventually.
CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider 1/25/2012 8:38am
1/25/2012 8:38am
RMRider1 wrote:
PB Blaster. Spray it on repeatedly, it should do the trick eventually.
I've had the bike on it's side since before the first post. I've sprayed every orifice with PB Blaster several times each day and I'm still not a happy camper. If I was gonna use this engine for an AF build I'd cut the frame enough to saw through the spacers/bolt and be done with it. Jesus this is ridiculous.
PN27416
Profile picture for user PN27416
Posts
1083
Joined
6/12/2008
Location
Coopersburg, PA, USA
PN27416 1/25/2012 9:22am
1/25/2012 9:22am
CR500Rider wrote:
The stuck swingarm bolt in my 2000 CR500 that is. I've beat, I've oiled and I've heated as much as I feel safe doing. Any words...
The stuck swingarm bolt in my 2000 CR500 that is. I've beat, I've oiled and I've heated as much as I feel safe doing. Any words of wisdom before I stick it in the shop press?
Going slow with the shop press may be better then blows with a hammer. Can you get it in there, give it a little pressure then leave if overnight? Try a little heat with the pressure on it.

The Shop

See All »
CamP
Profile picture for user CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX, USA
CamP 1/25/2012 9:41am
1/25/2012 9:41am
Don't use a press or a mallet on this or you will ruin parts.

This is a job for a small air hammer with a blunt tip. Work the bolt back and forth from both sides once you get the slightest movement. Be careful on the threaded end so as to not mushroom the tip.

This is what you need. Costs about $15 at Lowes. Use a bench grinder to grind the pointed tip that comes with it flat.

CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider 1/25/2012 9:59am
1/25/2012 9:59am
I've got an air hammer so I'll give that a try.
PN27416
Profile picture for user PN27416
Posts
1083
Joined
6/12/2008
Location
Coopersburg, PA, USA
PN27416 1/25/2012 1:47pm
1/25/2012 1:47pm
CamP, I'm intrigued by your idea. But hammering from the gun won't do damage?
CamP
Profile picture for user CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX, USA
CamP 1/25/2012 9:15pm
1/25/2012 9:15pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 9:24pm
PN27416 wrote:
CamP, I'm intrigued by your idea. But hammering from the gun won't do damage?
Not if you are careful and use a flat tip. Since getting into the vintage bike thing, I've seen numerous seized swingarm bolts and even the worst came out cleanly with that small impact hammer and some patience. Working the bolt back and forth is the key, and continue to use lube periodically through the process. To protect the threads of the bolt, and capture the tip of the air hammer, flip the swingarm nut around backwards and screw it on about 1/2 way.

All a big mallet does is mushroom the end of the bolt, then you are into hacksawing the swingarm out of the frame. A press will distort the frame.
PN27416
Profile picture for user PN27416
Posts
1083
Joined
6/12/2008
Location
Coopersburg, PA, USA
PN27416 1/26/2012 6:05am
1/26/2012 6:05am
Thanks, good info to know.
CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider 1/26/2012 2:24pm
1/26/2012 2:24pm
Didn't work for me. Angry
ehr400
Profile picture for user ehr400
Posts
2630
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Britton, MI, USA
ehr400 1/26/2012 4:06pm
1/26/2012 4:06pm
Have you tried to apply some local heat to the area were the bushiings are in the cases? I have put pressure against it and applied heat to it. More then likely the bearings are fucked anyways and the heat to them shouldnt matter. I am not saying aluminum melting heat but a good 3-500 degrees on the pivot bolt and areas.
CamP
Profile picture for user CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX, USA
CamP 1/26/2012 7:36pm
1/26/2012 7:36pm
CR500Rider wrote:
Didn't work for me. Angry
No movement at all?
CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider 1/27/2012 8:24am
1/27/2012 8:24am
ehr400 wrote:
Have you tried to apply some local heat to the area were the bushiings are in the cases? I have put pressure against it and applied...
Have you tried to apply some local heat to the area were the bushiings are in the cases? I have put pressure against it and applied heat to it. More then likely the bearings are fucked anyways and the heat to them shouldnt matter. I am not saying aluminum melting heat but a good 3-500 degrees on the pivot bolt and areas.
I put a heat gun on it.
CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider 1/27/2012 8:25am
1/27/2012 8:25am
CR500Rider wrote:
Didn't work for me. Angry
CamP wrote:
No movement at all?
None.
mosslander
Profile picture for user mosslander
Posts
736
Joined
2/1/2009
Location
Travad, SE
mosslander 1/27/2012 5:31pm
1/27/2012 5:31pm
boiling it in water
CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider 1/27/2012 11:18pm
1/27/2012 11:18pm
mosslander wrote:
boiling it in water
The smallest I can make it is the frame and swingarm. I don't have a pot big enough to get that into. I'll get back on it on Sunday when work is over for the weekend.
mosslander
Profile picture for user mosslander
Posts
736
Joined
2/1/2009
Location
Travad, SE
mosslander 1/28/2012 2:22am
1/28/2012 2:22am
Take a long M8 rod thrue the axle and tight it at both ends with a long m8 bolts and make a glide hammer
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/28/2012 7:14am
1/28/2012 7:14am
mosslander wrote:
Take a long M8 rod thrue the axle and tight it at both ends with a long m8 bolts and make a glide hammer
If an air hammer dosen't do it what chance does a home made slide hammer have?

Pit Row

See All »
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/28/2012 7:17am
1/28/2012 7:17am
ehr400 wrote:
Have you tried to apply some local heat to the area were the bushiings are in the cases? I have put pressure against it and applied...
Have you tried to apply some local heat to the area were the bushiings are in the cases? I have put pressure against it and applied heat to it. More then likely the bearings are fucked anyways and the heat to them shouldnt matter. I am not saying aluminum melting heat but a good 3-500 degrees on the pivot bolt and areas.
CR500Rider wrote:
I put a heat gun on it.
Are you heating the axle or the swingarm?
CR500Rider
Profile picture for user CR500Rider
Posts
1272
Joined
4/4/2008
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
CR500Rider 1/28/2012 9:46am
1/28/2012 9:46am
TerryK wrote:
Are you heating the axle or the swingarm?
You can't really just heat the axle but I've heated the cases where the bushings are and the swingarm.
mosslander
Profile picture for user mosslander
Posts
736
Joined
2/1/2009
Location
Travad, SE
mosslander 1/28/2012 11:08am
1/28/2012 11:08am
mosslander wrote:
Take a long M8 rod thrue the axle and tight it at both ends with a long m8 bolts and make a glide hammer
TerryK wrote:
If an air hammer dosen't do it what chance does a home made slide hammer have?
The airhammer works in one direction at the time versus glide or slide hammer you can both push and pull
mosslander
Profile picture for user mosslander
Posts
736
Joined
2/1/2009
Location
Travad, SE
mosslander 1/28/2012 11:22am
1/28/2012 11:22am
put acetylen heat thrue the axlehole
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/30/2012 9:49pm
1/30/2012 9:49pm
mosslander wrote:
Take a long M8 rod thrue the axle and tight it at both ends with a long m8 bolts and make a glide hammer
TerryK wrote:
If an air hammer dosen't do it what chance does a home made slide hammer have?
mosslander wrote:
The airhammer works in one direction at the time versus glide or slide hammer you can both push and pull
lol, what? If the air hammer is not moving it, it dosen't matter if your home made slide hammer moves sideways, it's not going to make a difference. Once the axle is broken loose, you can push it from either side to get the same effect as pushing and pulling.
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/30/2012 9:51pm
1/30/2012 9:51pm
mosslander wrote:
put acetylen heat thrue the axlehole
If you heat the axle only, the axle will actually get tighter because it expands as its heated. It's best to heat the swingarm and if need be, the engine cases.....but not too much.
mosslander
Profile picture for user mosslander
Posts
736
Joined
2/1/2009
Location
Travad, SE
mosslander 1/31/2012 12:27am
1/31/2012 12:27am Edited Date/Time 1/31/2012 12:33am
mosslander wrote:
put acetylen heat thrue the axlehole
TerryK wrote:
If you heat the axle only, the axle will actually get tighter because it expands as its heated. It's best to heat the swingarm and if...
If you heat the axle only, the axle will actually get tighter because it expands as its heated. It's best to heat the swingarm and if need be, the engine cases.....but not too much.
The point with the expanding bolt is to wake those rusty inner bearing up to break loose from the bolt and if you
heat the outside only the needle in the bearing will loose and the inner bearing still fixed to the bolt .
So heat up Red,cool down,rust dissolver, air hammer or slide hammer a little, if not helped , repeat till it's loose.
mxtech1
Profile picture for user mxtech1
Posts
1968
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
mxtech1 1/31/2012 6:23am
1/31/2012 6:23am
I think you're to the point where you need to get it into a large shop press and start doing some real pushing on it. It seems like nothing else has worked and you've tried almost every trick in the book.

My only other suggestion is to try a commercial grade rust dissolver. I can't remember a specific name, but a few years ago I got some really good stuff from my local Fastenal store. The stuff literally ate through the rust after soaking overnight. It was very acidic so you have to be exact with where you apply it because it would probably pit aluminum easily.

I've never personally tried using dry ice but I have heard some success stories using it. The idea with it is that the cold causes the bolt to contract and break the corrosion bond. Dry ice may work with some cycles of heating and then rapid cooling to get the bolt to expand and contract. However, I don't think you have enough surface area showing on the bolt to apply an effective amount of dry ice.
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/31/2012 6:34am
1/31/2012 6:34am
mxtech1 wrote:
I think you're to the point where you need to get it into a large shop press and start doing some real pushing on it. It...
I think you're to the point where you need to get it into a large shop press and start doing some real pushing on it. It seems like nothing else has worked and you've tried almost every trick in the book.

My only other suggestion is to try a commercial grade rust dissolver. I can't remember a specific name, but a few years ago I got some really good stuff from my local Fastenal store. The stuff literally ate through the rust after soaking overnight. It was very acidic so you have to be exact with where you apply it because it would probably pit aluminum easily.

I've never personally tried using dry ice but I have heard some success stories using it. The idea with it is that the cold causes the bolt to contract and break the corrosion bond. Dry ice may work with some cycles of heating and then rapid cooling to get the bolt to expand and contract. However, I don't think you have enough surface area showing on the bolt to apply an effective amount of dry ice.
I suggested the commercial rust dissolver earlier but Im not sure if he tried it.
mxtech1
Profile picture for user mxtech1
Posts
1968
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
mxtech1 1/31/2012 7:01am
1/31/2012 7:01am
mxtech1 wrote:
I think you're to the point where you need to get it into a large shop press and start doing some real pushing on it. It...
I think you're to the point where you need to get it into a large shop press and start doing some real pushing on it. It seems like nothing else has worked and you've tried almost every trick in the book.

My only other suggestion is to try a commercial grade rust dissolver. I can't remember a specific name, but a few years ago I got some really good stuff from my local Fastenal store. The stuff literally ate through the rust after soaking overnight. It was very acidic so you have to be exact with where you apply it because it would probably pit aluminum easily.

I've never personally tried using dry ice but I have heard some success stories using it. The idea with it is that the cold causes the bolt to contract and break the corrosion bond. Dry ice may work with some cycles of heating and then rapid cooling to get the bolt to expand and contract. However, I don't think you have enough surface area showing on the bolt to apply an effective amount of dry ice.
TerryK wrote:
I suggested the commercial rust dissolver earlier but Im not sure if he tried it.
For the life of me I can't remember the name of the stuff I used was. Errrrr....thats probably going to bug me all day now.
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/31/2012 7:42am
1/31/2012 7:42am
mxtech1 wrote:
For the life of me I can't remember the name of the stuff I used was. Errrrr....thats probably going to bug me all day now.
Lol, me too.

Post a reply to: It's beating me down