A tech question- 4T exhaust tuning

Hman144
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Fantasy
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 9:36pm
Ok, I understand the backpressure/sonic wave idea behind the design of 2T pipes, and why some of them are therefore longer and thinner, some shorter and fatter.

However, after seeing the dramatic difference between the pipes on say, Windham's CRF and Dungey's SX, can someone enlighten me as to why the pipes would be so drastically different? Since the combustion process is primarily controlled by cam/valve timing, what does the pipe length have to do with it?

Thanks in advance.

H
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nb11
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1/17/2012 9:05am
Not an expert, but I know the back pressure thing still has an effect on 4 strokes. Longer/shorter headers and midpipes contribute to different powerband characteristics.
Top End
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1/17/2012 9:12am
It's all an aftermarket industry mind trick. Basically the louder the exhaust the faster you think you are.
reded
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1/17/2012 10:05am
Top End wrote:
It's all an aftermarket industry mind trick. Basically the louder the exhaust the faster you think you are.
.......or sound like you're going.
mxtech1
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1/17/2012 10:28am
The header length, shape, and diameter have everything to do with it. There's too much tech behind trying to explain it here. Google the differences between race car header lengths and shapes. Most of the information you can learn there can be applied to bikes.

I remember reading an article a long time ago about a test rider who could notice the power difference when the only change was the thickness of the pipe material. Now that's impressive...

The Shop

Hman144
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1/17/2012 11:04am
C'mon tech, gimme the quick and dirty- I can take it.

I've done a little digging since I posted and I take it the same principles at work in 2T design are at work in 4T design, just to a lesser degree. They're still playing with the milliseconds of charge flow and micrograms of fuel mixture that can be affected outside the control of the valves. I guess at this level, every teensy bit counts. And exhaust changes are easier to do that cams.

Is that about right?

H
1/17/2012 11:51am
The header's primary length and tubing diameter are tailored to the cam(s). another reason why the headers look different is to get more of the silencer behind the number plate, while still having the necessary primary length. there is a lot of science behind it, even tubing wall thickness comes into play. There is a lot of power to be had in exhaust manifolds, but I think the exhaust manufacturers will never push the envelope because there is already too much power there on the 450s.

those bulges in the header, if you were wondering, are anti reversion chambers, which have been on race car headers for 30 years. they keep exhaust pulses from interrupting the downstream flow of exhaust gasses. i think fmf calls them "power bombs"?

cam swaps are useless without coinciding tuning. the power gains will be minimal. same with headers. you might feel it on the "butt dyno" but usually "butt dyno" feelings are actually what you call "torque spikes" which are a result of poor tuning. the problem is, you can not tell a moto redneck this, they will ALWAYS argue that it "feels" faster, when in reality, there is just a lean spot in the fuel curve that gives that illusion. smoother is faster, 12:1 AFRs from idle to redline, throw as much timing as it can handle until it detonates, then back it off.

thats where efi comes into play. much easier to tune than carbs because you can just look at a computer monitor, and click a mouse to change your a/f ratio and timing as long as you have enough injector flow in it.
Hman144
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1/17/2012 12:05pm
Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout.

Thanks Chuck, uhhh, Mr. Bronson.

H
TeamGreen
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1/17/2012 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2012 1:52pm
Until "tunedlength" chimes in...it's all web-talk.

I'm jus' knowin'...
1/17/2012 1:56pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Until "tunedlength" chimes in...it's all web-talk.

I'm jus' knowin'...
ah, i forgot... there is only one human being in the motocross community that knows his way around a four stroke.

silly me.


or.....


you could just get real.
tunedlength
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1/17/2012 7:59pm
What ever looks best on the bike.
mxtech1
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1/18/2012 7:31am
it's alot easier for a good engine bulder to degree camshafts to maximize the power curve to match a standard aftermarket header. You probably aren't going to call FMF or PC and ask them to make you one-off headers to maximize the performance of your cams so you don't have to adjust the cam degrees. It's just not worth the time or money to develop 20 different headers to dial a power curve in. This is why adjustable camshafts and ignition mapping are so important on modern 4 strokes.

On the other hand, race team headers for someone like PC, R&D is a big part of developing their engine power curve. They are probably running custom headers that aren't available to the public. They usually do alot of testing on the track and dyno to develop a good standard header that will allow cam adjustment. If you read any tech articles by race team motor gurus, different engines are not used for SX and MX like one would think. The team will usually use the same engine, but adjust cam timing and ignition mapping to produce a bottom to mid engine for SX, and then a mid to top end engine for MX. More then likely, they have a header to match each application.

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