Engines

NP301
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NP301
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 1:44pm
Let's say I am making a custom 2 stroke engine in Metals shop. How would I begin or do it?

Also if you 4 stroke guys want you can do them to.

Ps. I have a Lathe, Mill, smelter, sand casting, and I'm able to weld and cut almost anything.
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FastEddy
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FastEddy 11/11/2011 12:40pm
11/11/2011 12:40pm Edited Date/Time 11/11/2011 12:41pm
You should call up Mitch Payton and him this same question. Smile

Seriously though...
Make some sprockets,levers & foot pegs first. Wink
crashnburn11 11/11/2011 12:45pm
11/11/2011 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/11/2011 12:46pm
If you are wanting to make the entire engine it will be quite the project. You will probably need to so some 3D CAD modeling (solidworks, proE, or similar) of the engine design for best results. For one-off engine cases etc you would probably want to go with a rapid-prototype investment casting, with finish machining for the flat surfaces, holes, cylinder, bearing lands, etc. Also you will want to get the cylinder plated/sleeved.

You will probably need to buy the transmission because you will want forged gears. That means you need to design ahead of time for someone else's stuff to work in your engine.

I agree that starting somewhere simpler is the way to go. Making some components for an existing engine would be cool, like a custom cylinder for a stroker or something.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/11/2011 12:55pm
11/11/2011 12:55pm
FastEddy wrote:
You should call up Mitch Payton and him this same question. Smile

Seriously though...
Make some sprockets,levers & foot pegs first. Wink
You'd be told to look into making your own cylinder.

Mitch did.
NP301
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NP301 11/11/2011 2:07pm
11/11/2011 2:07pm
FastEddy wrote:
You should call up Mitch Payton and him this same question. Smile

Seriously though...
Make some sprockets,levers & foot pegs first. Wink
Already made levers

The Shop

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scooter5002
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scooter5002 11/11/2011 2:15pm
11/11/2011 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 11/11/2011 2:16pm
Well, if you are looking for a PROJECT, how about building me a big bore cylinder for my 93 CR250? I have a few ideas on how you would start, let's get together and start this.
NP301
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NP301 11/11/2011 2:22pm
11/11/2011 2:22pm
scooter5002 wrote:
Well, if you are looking for a PROJECT, how about building me a big bore cylinder for my 93 CR250? I have a few ideas on...
Well, if you are looking for a PROJECT, how about building me a big bore cylinder for my 93 CR250? I have a few ideas on how you would start, let's get together and start this.
What are the ideas
Stooperbike
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Stooperbike 11/11/2011 2:30pm
11/11/2011 2:30pm
I think that if you are going to take on a custom 2 stroke bike motor it is going to be quite a project. You should start small and work your way up, that is how a lot of projects are done when entering the unknown. I think it would be neat if you made a piston out of a solid piece of aluminum. Reverse engineer a piston from your bike and try it out. Or if you are not willing to use your bike...try it in a buddies in case something goes wrong.LOL!!



Good luck!!
NP301
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NP301 11/11/2011 2:32pm
11/11/2011 2:32pm
Stooperbike wrote:
I think that if you are going to take on a custom 2 stroke bike motor it is going to be quite a project. You should...
I think that if you are going to take on a custom 2 stroke bike motor it is going to be quite a project. You should start small and work your way up, that is how a lot of projects are done when entering the unknown. I think it would be neat if you made a piston out of a solid piece of aluminum. Reverse engineer a piston from your bike and try it out. Or if you are not willing to use your bike...try it in a buddies in case something goes wrong.LOL!!



Good luck!!
Yeah would be cool
newmann
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newmann 11/11/2011 3:14pm
11/11/2011 3:14pm
I'd like someone to cast me a all aluminum cylinder for a 74-78 CR125 that mocked the porting of the 83 CR125 with a reed intake capable of being overbored several mm. The vintage 0-200 class would be a lot more fun.Smile
StatutoryApe
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StatutoryApe 11/11/2011 3:16pm
11/11/2011 3:16pm
newmann wrote:
I'd like someone to cast me a all aluminum cylinder for a 74-78 CR125 that mocked the porting of the 83 CR125 with a reed intake...
I'd like someone to cast me a all aluminum cylinder for a 74-78 CR125 that mocked the porting of the 83 CR125 with a reed intake capable of being overbored several mm. The vintage 0-200 class would be a lot more fun.Smile
Do you have any newer bikes ? Or only vintage ?
scooter5002
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scooter5002 11/11/2011 5:27pm
11/11/2011 5:27pm
scooter5002 wrote:
Well, if you are looking for a PROJECT, how about building me a big bore cylinder for my 93 CR250? I have a few ideas on...
Well, if you are looking for a PROJECT, how about building me a big bore cylinder for my 93 CR250? I have a few ideas on how you would start, let's get together and start this.
NP301 wrote:
What are the ideas
I'm overly simplifying this, but here's where I'd start. First off, consult with an engine guy I know to discuss port timing and heights, this will be a a stroker motor as well, so raising the base of the cylinder height is part of the project. Something in the neighbourhood of 350-370 cc. The trick is to find the best bore and stroke combination for longevity and rideability. Rode a 360 Ohlins kit years ago on a Yamaha, and loved it. Problem was it stalled too easily, and while it likely would've gotten better witth more saddle time to adjust, that's what I remember. Awesome power, though. Just what you want if you want a "mini 500". Which I do.
Next step would be measure the intake and exhaust port angles and lengths, so that bolting up reed cage and pipe isn't a nightmare. Would probably require a custom head as well, just not sure that a stock CR250 head gasket will work on the bigger bore size I'd want. Maybe just use a CR500 head for simplicity, and weld, downsize, and re-shape the squish.
Buy a big square chunk of aluminum and start whittling on it. In a 4 jaw chuck on a lathe at first to cut the bore, then center everything off the bore. Use a stock base gasket off the cylinder base to set up stud and water port locatons and have at 'er. Cut off all the excess material you need to, and shape the intake casting. Not really worried about looking too O.E.M. because if it looks "works", well, great! Grind out fuel and exhaust ports with heavy duty cutter to rough dimensions, leave the finish work to my engine guy. Water passages might be a bitch, but no-one said this would be easy. No great project ever is a cake walk. Finish the port work at my guys shop, match up a piston to the job and send the cylinder out to be plated. Voila! Sounds so easy doesn't it?
newmann
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newmann 11/11/2011 7:23pm
11/11/2011 7:23pm
newmann wrote:
I'd like someone to cast me a all aluminum cylinder for a 74-78 CR125 that mocked the porting of the 83 CR125 with a reed intake...
I'd like someone to cast me a all aluminum cylinder for a 74-78 CR125 that mocked the porting of the 83 CR125 with a reed intake capable of being overbored several mm. The vintage 0-200 class would be a lot more fun.Smile
StatutoryApe wrote:
Do you have any newer bikes ? Or only vintage ?
I have 1974 through 2008 models. Newest bike in our fleet is a 2008 KTM144. Been selling off a few things with the hopes of maybe picking up a new KTM150. If.....if there happened to be a six round 125cc outdoor national series, there would be a new KTM125 out there on the gate for someone courtesy of me.
ocscottie
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ocscottie 11/11/2011 10:04pm
11/11/2011 10:04pm
That thing sounds rad! i want to bolt it under one of my wheelchair frames Woohoo
drmarkr
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drmarkr 11/11/2011 11:32pm
11/11/2011 11:32pm
ocscottie wrote:
That thing sounds rad! i want to bolt it under one of my wheelchair frames Woohoo
God help the streets of Redding.....
Erick
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Erick 11/12/2011 12:42am
11/12/2011 12:42am
NP301 wrote:
Let's say I am making a custom 2 stroke engine in Metals shop. How would I begin or do it? Also if you 4 stroke guys...
Let's say I am making a custom 2 stroke engine in Metals shop. How would I begin or do it?

Also if you 4 stroke guys want you can do them to.

Ps. I have a Lathe, Mill, smelter, sand casting, and I'm able to weld and cut almost anything.
If you want to design an engine yourself, what about getting a masters degree in mechanical engineering first?

For instance, can you design gears? Can you design cilinder head bolts? Do you understand thermodynamics? Can you analyse lubrication regimes? Can you do a FEM analysis and really know what these answers mean to you?

Pit Row

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NP301
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NP301 11/12/2011 6:02am
11/12/2011 6:02am
Erick wrote:
If you want to design an engine yourself, what about getting a masters degree in mechanical engineering first? For instance, can you design gears? Can you...
If you want to design an engine yourself, what about getting a masters degree in mechanical engineering first?

For instance, can you design gears? Can you design cilinder head bolts? Do you understand thermodynamics? Can you analyse lubrication regimes? Can you do a FEM analysis and really know what these answers mean to you?
Never said i was going to, just seeing what you guys would say.
Roscoe33
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Roscoe33 11/12/2011 6:03am
11/12/2011 6:03am
newmann wrote:
I'd like someone to cast me a all aluminum cylinder for a 74-78 CR125 that mocked the porting of the 83 CR125 with a reed intake...
I'd like someone to cast me a all aluminum cylinder for a 74-78 CR125 that mocked the porting of the 83 CR125 with a reed intake capable of being overbored several mm. The vintage 0-200 class would be a lot more fun.Smile
StatutoryApe wrote:
Do you have any newer bikes ? Or only vintage ?
newmann wrote:
I have 1974 through 2008 models. Newest bike in our fleet is a 2008 KTM144. Been selling off a few things with the hopes of maybe...
I have 1974 through 2008 models. Newest bike in our fleet is a 2008 KTM144. Been selling off a few things with the hopes of maybe picking up a new KTM150. If.....if there happened to be a six round 125cc outdoor national series, there would be a new KTM125 out there on the gate for someone courtesy of me.
This sounds like a great team in the Making...

Newmann racing....sounds fast....
Erick
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Erick 11/12/2011 6:06am
11/12/2011 6:06am
NP301 wrote:
Never said i was going to, just seeing what you guys would say.
Okay, I think you should try to make your own frame. Thats pretty challenging. You could purchase the books "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors, John Bradley vol 1 & 2". I have these books in my possesion and they are very informative about bike building Smile
NP301
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NP301 11/12/2011 6:10am
11/12/2011 6:10am
NP301 wrote:
Never said i was going to, just seeing what you guys would say.
Erick wrote:
Okay, I think you should try to make your own frame. Thats pretty challenging. You could purchase the books "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for...
Okay, I think you should try to make your own frame. Thats pretty challenging. You could purchase the books "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors, John Bradley vol 1 & 2". I have these books in my possesion and they are very informative about bike building Smile
Okay.
scooter5002
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scooter5002 11/12/2011 6:41am
11/12/2011 6:41am
NP301 wrote:
Never said i was going to, just seeing what you guys would say.
Erick wrote:
Okay, I think you should try to make your own frame. Thats pretty challenging. You could purchase the books "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for...
Okay, I think you should try to make your own frame. Thats pretty challenging. You could purchase the books "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors, John Bradley vol 1 & 2". I have these books in my possesion and they are very informative about bike building Smile
NP301 wrote:
Okay.
Hey, NP.....................................................fuck him. Silly Evil What do you think about MY idea? A little more in a positive direction, no?
NP301
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NP301 11/12/2011 6:45am
11/12/2011 6:45am
scooter5002 wrote:
Hey, NP.....................................................fuck him. Silly Evil What do you think about MY idea? A little more in a positive direction, no?
Good, but would need the material (extra because I'm going to mess up!) And blue prints Etc.
scooter5002
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scooter5002 11/12/2011 7:11am
11/12/2011 7:11am
Send you the cylinder once the decision has been made as what direction to go in ie: bore and stroke. Use that as your template and a list of what's needed to be done. You can measure the O.E.M cylinder for angles on the reed cage port angle, exhaust etc. I can look for materials here and send you the chunks of aluminum with the stocker.
NP301
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NP301 11/12/2011 7:33am
11/12/2011 7:33am
scooter5002 wrote:
Send you the cylinder once the decision has been made as what direction to go in ie: bore and stroke. Use that as your template and...
Send you the cylinder once the decision has been made as what direction to go in ie: bore and stroke. Use that as your template and a list of what's needed to be done. You can measure the O.E.M cylinder for angles on the reed cage port angle, exhaust etc. I can look for materials here and send you the chunks of aluminum with the stocker.
Just saying, I have never done any of this. The probability is very slim, we can try but it probably will not happen.
RaceFace
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RaceFace 11/12/2011 7:55am
11/12/2011 7:55am
scooter5002 wrote:
Send you the cylinder once the decision has been made as what direction to go in ie: bore and stroke. Use that as your template and...
Send you the cylinder once the decision has been made as what direction to go in ie: bore and stroke. Use that as your template and a list of what's needed to be done. You can measure the O.E.M cylinder for angles on the reed cage port angle, exhaust etc. I can look for materials here and send you the chunks of aluminum with the stocker.
NP301 wrote:
Just saying, I have never done any of this. The probability is very slim, we can try but it probably will not happen.
Stop farting around with these easy projects. I have plans for an unmanned helicopter prototype I need done. It definitely will provide a good challenge and I can even give you some of the materials to do it. I might even be able to give you a couple of bucks for your time. You don't even need to worry about the guidance systems as my neighbor is taking care of tha part.....he's in school for electronics. I need it done by January 1, should be plenty of time. Waddya say?Evil
scooter5002
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scooter5002 11/12/2011 8:23am
11/12/2011 8:23am
scooter5002 wrote:
Send you the cylinder once the decision has been made as what direction to go in ie: bore and stroke. Use that as your template and...
Send you the cylinder once the decision has been made as what direction to go in ie: bore and stroke. Use that as your template and a list of what's needed to be done. You can measure the O.E.M cylinder for angles on the reed cage port angle, exhaust etc. I can look for materials here and send you the chunks of aluminum with the stocker.
NP301 wrote:
Just saying, I have never done any of this. The probability is very slim, we can try but it probably will not happen.
RaceFace wrote:
Stop farting around with these easy projects. I have plans for an unmanned helicopter prototype I need done. It definitely will provide a good challenge and...
Stop farting around with these easy projects. I have plans for an unmanned helicopter prototype I need done. It definitely will provide a good challenge and I can even give you some of the materials to do it. I might even be able to give you a couple of bucks for your time. You don't even need to worry about the guidance systems as my neighbor is taking care of tha part.....he's in school for electronics. I need it done by January 1, should be plenty of time. Waddya say?Evil
Lmao. Geez I would think that's LOTS of time. I figured I'd have my cylinder back next week, so you should be covered!
NP, self doubt will remove any chance of success. If you don't try, you won't fail. And therefore, determine with greater resolve to succeed. Years ago (32) I'd never worked on a bike. Now I do everything but porting and suspension valving. In the last 10 years, I started working on the engine on my rig. Because I was tired of getting fucked on $100 or more an hour repair bills. I've worked on my own truck for 25 years, but never the engine. I was afraid to touch it. Even though I'd worked on my hot rods with roller cam motors etc: Same thing basically, just a lot bigger. I really enjoy it now. Really helps if you're anal about mechanical stuff. You have to believe in yourself, that's all.
NP301
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NP301 11/12/2011 2:47pm
11/12/2011 2:47pm
Just saying don't get your hopes up

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