Question about team budgets?

kwhite199
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Edited Date/Time 1/21/2012 1:48pm
I know there are some insiders that come on here that might be able to help answer a question I have. I've been wondering how much it would take to fund a top level MX/SX team. Say there was someone that has followed the sport for decades and was interested in possibly getting involved. What kind of budget would be needed to field a team consisting of two 250 riders and two 450 riders? I have seen a lot of different numbers thrown around, but nothing really specific. I don't think a JGR type arrangement would work for this particular person, so it would have to be done somehow with the help of a factory, possibly leasing bikes, buying parts, etc.
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FastEddy
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10/26/2011 6:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 7:23pm
I dont know if you are going to get any straight answers off of here.
You have to take rider salaries into consideration....top10 guy,top20 guy,top5 guy...etc..
Mechanics,Drivers, & team manager salaries ect..
Practice tracks (MX track & SX track),equipment to groom them,a shop etc..
Not to mention insurance on championship bonuses etc...
And you aren't even at the races yet.
The travel is another expensive thing when you have a fully staffed 4 rider race team.

Tony Alessi recently claimed 1 million if they did this season out of their own pocket....with just Mike.
That is no salary obviously for Mike either (he wouldn't pay himself).
Not sure if that included them leasing a big rig....or not.
But they already have a lot of the stuff as far as tracks & equipment,motor coach,etc...
kwhite199
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10/26/2011 7:04pm
My original best guess was somewhere in the $8-$10 million/year range. It looks like it could be even higher than that. It does seem to be hard to find out much regarding budgets in our sport.
10/26/2011 7:15pm
When Alessi was talking about doing it on his own he (or maybe it was Tony) stated it would probably cost them about $1 million dollars
mom241
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10/26/2011 7:19pm
I see you're from Forrest City. My husband was from Hickory Ridge/Cherry Valley, just north of Wynne.

The Shop

mom241
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10/26/2011 7:20pm
Sorry I don't know anything about team budgets, just Trey's :-]
kwhite199
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10/26/2011 7:22pm
mom241 wrote:
I see you're from Forrest City. My husband was from Hickory Ridge/Cherry Valley, just north of Wynne.
I definitely know where those places are Smile I'm not originally from here, just moved here for a job. I'm originally from NW Arkansas. Does he ever get back this way?
FastEddy
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10/26/2011 7:23pm
RedRider28 wrote:
When Alessi was talking about doing it on his own he (or maybe it was Tony) stated it would probably cost them about $1 million dollars
Yeah it was Tony on Pulp,you are correct 1million.
Someone else through out the 1.5 million recently for SX on Pulp also....
mom241
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10/26/2011 7:24pm
Unfortunately, he passed in 2003. But I still take the boys out there at least once a year to see their grandparents. We'll be making the trip for Christmas.
kwhite199
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10/26/2011 7:27pm
mom241 wrote:
Unfortunately, he passed in 2003. But I still take the boys out there at least once a year to see their grandparents. We'll be making the...
Unfortunately, he passed in 2003. But I still take the boys out there at least once a year to see their grandparents. We'll be making the trip for Christmas.
Sorry for your loss. If you ever need anything from this neck of the woods, feel free to drop me a line. I would be happy to help!
EvanR127
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10/26/2011 7:27pm
From what I have seen at the pits at the races is a lot of stuff is unnecessary especial the semi rigs.
paul937
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10/26/2011 8:59pm
kwhite199 wrote:
I know there are some insiders that come on here that might be able to help answer a question I have. I've been wondering how much...
I know there are some insiders that come on here that might be able to help answer a question I have. I've been wondering how much it would take to fund a top level MX/SX team. Say there was someone that has followed the sport for decades and was interested in possibly getting involved. What kind of budget would be needed to field a team consisting of two 250 riders and two 450 riders? I have seen a lot of different numbers thrown around, but nothing really specific. I don't think a JGR type arrangement would work for this particular person, so it would have to be done somehow with the help of a factory, possibly leasing bikes, buying parts, etc.
kwhite, check your PM.

No offence guys, but the numbers I've seen thrown around in here on this topic (they have been similar threads in the past few weeks) are way, WAY too high.

That being said, it's also an almost impossible question to answer correctly with out being way more specific. You could do a two man west coast lites team (for the right two riders) nicely for $100k. Or you could go all out and spend $2 mil. There are SO many variables that swing it up or down drastically that it just can't be answered short and easy.

Paul
Coyote
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10/26/2011 9:07pm
RedRider28 wrote:
When Alessi was talking about doing it on his own he (or maybe it was Tony) stated it would probably cost them about $1 million dollars
FastEddy wrote:
Yeah it was Tony on Pulp,you are correct 1million.
Someone else through out the 1.5 million recently for SX on Pulp also....
Rlder salary $50,000
Rider flights 30 @ $500.00/$15000.00
Mech salary $40,000
Mech flights 8 @ $500.00/$4000.00
Rider per diem $100.00 per day (sx & mx) 35 days or $3500.00
Mech per diem $100.00 per day " " 110 days or $11,000.00\
4 bikes @ $7500.00 $15000.00
Parts $25,000.00
Leased Rig @ $1000.00 per month
Rig fuel $30,000
Driver $35,000.00
Driver Per Diem 110 days or $11,000.00
Rider contingency $50,000
Credentials $1000.00
Race Gas $2500.00
Race Shop @ $5,000 per month
Entries 30 @ $200.00 $6,000
10/26/2011 10:25pm
To do it right with some decent riders and actually have 4 guys is in the neiborhood of $5M. And the guy right above that is saying riders salaries should be $50K should be slapped for even suggesting it. Would you risk your life for that? Probably not.

$3M will do a good 450 program for 2 riders. You would need an additional $1.5-2M for the addition of 2 250F riders/bikes that were competitive.

2nd year cost would be a bit less and you could ammoritize it over a period of time to bring the per Year cost down. However, without some serious top flight riders you would be hard pressed to get any support from an OEM. There are already a lot of teams out there getting support. If you are paying/leasing everything well then you could get great equipment but you will still have to have top riders to even get the lease.

That's just the way it is.
mattmatt300
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10/27/2011 12:04am
"And the guy right above that is saying riders salaries should be $50K should be slapped for even suggesting it. Would you risk your life for that? Probably not"

i would gladly do something i love doing for $50,000 a year.
MelonFan123
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10/27/2011 12:13am
$5MM per year?!?!

hey Old School Racer, considering "the guy above" was openly talking in another thread about his experience as the former Team Manager of Valli Motorsports, i'd say he knows a thing or two about racing costs.

same goes for that Paul guy. Wink
-eagle-
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10/27/2011 6:03am
I'd love to see 11/10's bottom line vs 2 Rockstar or 2 TLD guys for the summer.

Utmost respect for what they did this summer and what Regal did last summer.
flarider
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10/27/2011 6:25am
As Paul937 said, there are way too many variables.

Do you have a transport rig at all? Box truck, funmover, or semi? That alone is going to be a shitload of money depending on your choice or needs (wants).

You plan to offer a salary to the riders, or will it be incentive and earnings based?
Hell, are you going to make riders "bring something to the table," by way of cash or sponsors?
You going to pay airfare?

There are huge variables, so there is no set clear answer except to say "The cost of running a team is whatever you're willing to pay"
Holigan
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10/27/2011 7:15am
$1,200,000 - $1,400,000 before rider salaries.
Flatliner
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10/27/2011 7:31am
Holigan wrote:
$1,200,000 - $1,400,000 before rider salaries.
I was always a big fan of your team. Your bike's looked great, and the reality of speed was must see tv for me.
rocrac
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10/27/2011 7:35am
This just begs the question of why the rule makers don't do something to make it a little easier on these teams in terms of equipment costs especially in the 250 class.

I would love to know what Pro circuit or Geico actually spends per season on engines alone.
WFO
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10/27/2011 7:52am
-eagle- wrote:
I'd love to see 11/10's bottom line vs 2 Rockstar or 2 TLD guys for the summer. Utmost respect for what they did this summer and...
I'd love to see 11/10's bottom line vs 2 Rockstar or 2 TLD guys for the summer.

Utmost respect for what they did this summer and what Regal did last summer.
Regal was the Exception not the rule. One bike, a Sprinter van, and easy-up and a fan.
It was cool hearing the Factory guys from Honda, Kawi and Suzuki talking about how well Regal's suspension and bike was running. You know when you hear those guys talking about how well another riders bike looks out on the track, you're doing pretty well.
Jim made that bike handle and run, and on their budget it was very impressive!
lumpy790
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10/27/2011 7:58am
This looks like a factory team budget for 1 rider and.....Lots of fat can be trimmed off of that

What are you trying to do???

Rlder salary $50,000 (not needed- very few riders are paid)
Rider flights 30 @ $500.00/$15000.00 (Buy ahead pay less....some can be driven to)
Mech salary $40,000
Mech flights 8 @ $500.00/$4000.00 (Dont you mean 30? - Buy ahead pay less....some can be driven to)
Rider per diem $100.00 per day (sx & mx) 35 days or $3500.00 ($30-$50 a day and some meals are cooked/fed at semi)
Mech per diem $100.00 per day " " 110 days or $11,000.00\ ($30-$50 a day and some meals are cooked/fed at semi)
4 bikes @ $7500.00 $15000.00 (not enough bikes for the whole year more like 10- as they are cycled they can be sold off and $$ put back into team account)
Parts $25,000.00
Leased Rig @ $1000.00 per month
Rig fuel $30,000
Driver $35,000.00
Driver Per Diem 110 days or $11,000.00 (unless you consider this a driver bonus....$30 a day for food and some meals are cooked/fed at semi)
Rider contingency $50,000 (sponsors not team paid)
Credentials $1000.00 (this is for 1 person....not enough.....X number of personel)
Race Gas $2500.00
Race Shop @ $5,000 per month
Entries 30 @ $200.00 $6,000
kwhite199
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10/27/2011 11:47am
Thanks for the information guys. There are some really good replies in here. I thought of a lot of things that were posted in here, but there were also things I had overlooked.
kwhite199
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10/27/2011 11:49am
lumpy790 wrote:
This looks like a factory team budget for 1 rider and.....Lots of fat can be trimmed off of that What are you trying to do??? Rlder...
This looks like a factory team budget for 1 rider and.....Lots of fat can be trimmed off of that

What are you trying to do???

Rlder salary $50,000 (not needed- very few riders are paid)
Rider flights 30 @ $500.00/$15000.00 (Buy ahead pay less....some can be driven to)
Mech salary $40,000
Mech flights 8 @ $500.00/$4000.00 (Dont you mean 30? - Buy ahead pay less....some can be driven to)
Rider per diem $100.00 per day (sx & mx) 35 days or $3500.00 ($30-$50 a day and some meals are cooked/fed at semi)
Mech per diem $100.00 per day " " 110 days or $11,000.00\ ($30-$50 a day and some meals are cooked/fed at semi)
4 bikes @ $7500.00 $15000.00 (not enough bikes for the whole year more like 10- as they are cycled they can be sold off and $$ put back into team account)
Parts $25,000.00
Leased Rig @ $1000.00 per month
Rig fuel $30,000
Driver $35,000.00
Driver Per Diem 110 days or $11,000.00 (unless you consider this a driver bonus....$30 a day for food and some meals are cooked/fed at semi)
Rider contingency $50,000 (sponsors not team paid)
Credentials $1000.00 (this is for 1 person....not enough.....X number of personel)
Race Gas $2500.00
Race Shop @ $5,000 per month
Entries 30 @ $200.00 $6,000
To answer the question of what we are trying to do, if/when it happens, it would be a full fledged effort. I don't think it would be anything less than wanting to compete for championships. At the moment, nothing exists but talk, hopes, and a lot of dreams, well that and someone with some money obviously Wink
lumpy790
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10/27/2011 12:01pm
championship caliber ......price just went up drastically.

2 top riders.....$10M a year by the time you do development & testing plus the amount of paid employees just went way up.....not to mention riders salary + bonuses.
paul937
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10/27/2011 12:22pm
lumpy790 wrote:
championship caliber ......price just went up drastically. 2 top riders.....$10M a year by the time you do development & testing plus the amount of paid employees...
championship caliber ......price just went up drastically.

2 top riders.....$10M a year by the time you do development & testing plus the amount of paid employees just went way up.....not to mention riders salary + bonuses.
Again, no offence but that is WAY off. There isn't a single team out there that spends $10 mil of their own money to race MX.

Paul
10/27/2011 6:47pm
DV might have some spare time at the moment. Why don't you get in touch and get the ball rolling.
CamP
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10/27/2011 7:25pm
RedRider28 wrote:
When Alessi was talking about doing it on his own he (or maybe it was Tony) stated it would probably cost them about $1 million dollars
That's about what it costs to do the indoors and outdoors for two riders on good bikes, a manager and a driver w/ a Renegade.
Cygnus
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10/27/2011 7:31pm
Best way to end up making a million in MX is to start with 2 million.
lumpy790
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10/28/2011 8:02am
lumpy790 wrote:
championship caliber ......price just went up drastically. 2 top riders.....$10M a year by the time you do development & testing plus the amount of paid employees...
championship caliber ......price just went up drastically.

2 top riders.....$10M a year by the time you do development & testing plus the amount of paid employees just went way up.....not to mention riders salary + bonuses.
paul937 wrote:
Again, no offence but that is WAY off. There isn't a single team out there that spends $10 mil of their own money to race MX...
Again, no offence but that is WAY off. There isn't a single team out there that spends $10 mil of their own money to race MX.

Paul
I'm not talking about a rinky dink privateer 18 wheeler effort.

I would be willing to bet JGR is spending close to this NOW .....they do everything in house....employ several full time engineers, motor technicians, suspension technicians....... many other behind the scenes professionals that people never see but are there constantly working on ways to go faster. Come to Charlotte and go tour a top level NASCAR race shop.......its not a couple grease balls in bib-overalls that you will see. There are 50-100 professional employees.

For 2 top riders capable of winning a championship? Just their $2-4M each salary's will take a major portion of the funds......it will take $$$ to pull them from another team......and one hell of a team to back it up.

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