Wealth

dougie
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dougie
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 9:53pm
My question is why, how or for what reason has this disparity happen(d)?

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11288734/1/incomes-of-top-1-rose-275-in-…
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Racer92
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Racer92 10/26/2011 7:54am
10/26/2011 7:54am
Corporate America has learned how to take more from you, and spend less going out, thus making their bottom line much better and yours less & less. Add in that a huge amount of money is now leaving the country in outsourcing, the divide will only continue to grow. HUGE transfer of wealth taking place, and when they fuck it all up, we bail them out (with the peons tax money) so they can continue the cornholing !

Bend over and grab yer ankles America, Big Money has something for you !
gabrielmalinois 10/26/2011 9:00am
10/26/2011 9:00am
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it that way. Unions and baby boomers have created this predicament. Unions because they have finally squeezed all of the blood from the rock of the American people and have forced the otherwise reluctant corporations to seek other venues for manufacturing. The Unions mentality that they should receive top dollar and extravagant benefits for work that a well trained monkey could do and bribing the Democrat politicians who negotiate the majority of their contracts and create laws that cater to the unions unreasonable demands have created a business climate that simply cannot be profitable. Baby boomers because the lingering effects of bong resin on their brain cause many to still believe in the nonsense utopian vision they had during a drum circle in the sixties that the government should take all of the money from the bad corporations and distribute it to those who would rather dance in fields of daisies than work.
txmxer
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txmxer 10/26/2011 9:19am
10/26/2011 9:19am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it...
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it that way. Unions and baby boomers have created this predicament. Unions because they have finally squeezed all of the blood from the rock of the American people and have forced the otherwise reluctant corporations to seek other venues for manufacturing. The Unions mentality that they should receive top dollar and extravagant benefits for work that a well trained monkey could do and bribing the Democrat politicians who negotiate the majority of their contracts and create laws that cater to the unions unreasonable demands have created a business climate that simply cannot be profitable. Baby boomers because the lingering effects of bong resin on their brain cause many to still believe in the nonsense utopian vision they had during a drum circle in the sixties that the government should take all of the money from the bad corporations and distribute it to those who would rather dance in fields of daisies than work.
LOL...god stuff. Tell us another story.

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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 10/26/2011 10:24am
10/26/2011 10:24am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it...
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it that way. Unions and baby boomers have created this predicament. Unions because they have finally squeezed all of the blood from the rock of the American people and have forced the otherwise reluctant corporations to seek other venues for manufacturing. The Unions mentality that they should receive top dollar and extravagant benefits for work that a well trained monkey could do and bribing the Democrat politicians who negotiate the majority of their contracts and create laws that cater to the unions unreasonable demands have created a business climate that simply cannot be profitable. Baby boomers because the lingering effects of bong resin on their brain cause many to still believe in the nonsense utopian vision they had during a drum circle in the sixties that the government should take all of the money from the bad corporations and distribute it to those who would rather dance in fields of daisies than work.
So, the middle class income unions obtained for the vast number of employees in manufacturing shouldn't have existed. Unions ruined what should not have been there in the first place because it was obtained by organization. Okay.

I do think it's fair to say that both labor and management share blame for not being adept enough to respond to economic stress by taking the long view rather than pressuring for self interest in the short term.

It's also certainly true that American consumers shot themselves in the foot by putting a premium on low price over American manufacturing. The manufacturing sector cannot contribute to the middle class what it did before, and that hit on disposable income degrades the opportunities for other middle class wage earners in other sectors.

Here's an interesting article that addresses some of the issues in the OP's topic. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/income-inequality-i…
CamP
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CamP 10/26/2011 10:29am
10/26/2011 10:29am
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class is left without jobs. It's that sucking sound that Ross Perot was talking about 20 years ago.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 10/26/2011 10:37am
10/26/2011 10:37am
CamP wrote:
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class...
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class is left without jobs. It's that sucking sound that Ross Perot was talking about 20 years ago.
I guess the flip of this is that if American consumers won't buy goods at prices supporting American manufacturing, what choice do they have? Particularly if the buyer from Walmart is sitting across from you saying he can get your product for a dime on your dollar and he's going to go with the dime unless you knock it down to nine cents.
CamP
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CamP 10/26/2011 10:44am
10/26/2011 10:44am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 10:48am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I guess the flip of this is that if American consumers won't buy goods at prices supporting American manufacturing, what choice do they have? Particularly if...
I guess the flip of this is that if American consumers won't buy goods at prices supporting American manufacturing, what choice do they have? Particularly if the buyer from Walmart is sitting across from you saying he can get your product for a dime on your dollar and he's going to go with the dime unless you knock it down to nine cents.
Most people are short sided. My wife and I always look for US made products and we'll even pay a premium for them because they typically are higher quality and we feel better about doing our part to undo the cash vacuum and support companies that maintain their manufacturing in the US. Surprisingly, now that so many products are imported, they have raised the prices of the imported goods to the point that many times the US products are not only priced evenly with the imports, they are actually sometimes cheaper. I found that to be the case when recently comparing saw blades for my Fiskars tree saw. The USA made Fiskar blades were only $9.99 and the crappy Chinese made blades were $18.
vet323
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vet323 10/26/2011 10:50am
10/26/2011 10:50am
CamP wrote:
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class...
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class is left without jobs. It's that sucking sound that Ross Perot was talking about 20 years ago.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I guess the flip of this is that if American consumers won't buy goods at prices supporting American manufacturing, what choice do they have? Particularly if...
I guess the flip of this is that if American consumers won't buy goods at prices supporting American manufacturing, what choice do they have? Particularly if the buyer from Walmart is sitting across from you saying he can get your product for a dime on your dollar and he's going to go with the dime unless you knock it down to nine cents.
Don't you think globalization was going to happen sooner or later? There is (or rather, was) a wealth gap between the first world and third world that was always going to be exploited. Low-cost manufacturing would have eventually occurred in third-world and emerging countries no matter what protectionist laws could have been passed.

I think that American consumers can't buy goods at prices supporting American manufacturing when those prices are out of reach. When the cost of manufacturing gets too high, of course something has to change for businesses to survive. Labor unions have a tendency to lobby for high wages and benefits across the board instead of supporting a tiered wage structure that allows for gradual advancement. I think that may have something to do with high costs and loss of manufacturing jobs.
gabrielmalinois 10/26/2011 10:58am
10/26/2011 10:58am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it...
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it that way. Unions and baby boomers have created this predicament. Unions because they have finally squeezed all of the blood from the rock of the American people and have forced the otherwise reluctant corporations to seek other venues for manufacturing. The Unions mentality that they should receive top dollar and extravagant benefits for work that a well trained monkey could do and bribing the Democrat politicians who negotiate the majority of their contracts and create laws that cater to the unions unreasonable demands have created a business climate that simply cannot be profitable. Baby boomers because the lingering effects of bong resin on their brain cause many to still believe in the nonsense utopian vision they had during a drum circle in the sixties that the government should take all of the money from the bad corporations and distribute it to those who would rather dance in fields of daisies than work.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
So, the middle class income unions obtained for the vast number of employees in manufacturing shouldn't have existed. Unions ruined what should not have been there...
So, the middle class income unions obtained for the vast number of employees in manufacturing shouldn't have existed. Unions ruined what should not have been there in the first place because it was obtained by organization. Okay.

I do think it's fair to say that both labor and management share blame for not being adept enough to respond to economic stress by taking the long view rather than pressuring for self interest in the short term.

It's also certainly true that American consumers shot themselves in the foot by putting a premium on low price over American manufacturing. The manufacturing sector cannot contribute to the middle class what it did before, and that hit on disposable income degrades the opportunities for other middle class wage earners in other sectors.

Here's an interesting article that addresses some of the issues in the OP's topic. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/income-inequality-i…
I guess I didn't preface my statement well enough but I will be serious here in regards to unions. At one point in our history they served a very important purpose, and I believe they still could if they were part of the free market. Unfortunately for most Americans now unions are not involved in the free market but have laws stacked in their favor by democrats whom the unions continually buy off. More than that these same bought democrats have made it so unions control the government labor which is funded by tax payers. If a union can get a company to comply with their demand through organization that is one thing but when unions are given jobs for their support of politicians and then in turn these same politicians negotiate their contracts than their is no doubt why our government is so far in the hole.
CamP
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CamP 10/26/2011 11:03am
10/26/2011 11:03am
Blaming unions is a major cop out. Only 6% of the private sector jobs are Union. The other 94% of private sector jobs in the US are non-union.

Like I just said in my previous post, now that the imports have such a large market share, the corporate owners have raised the prices of these products to the same levels as US made products. It's happened slowly, but now the margins that these corporations are getting are huge, and that's a big part of the reason you are seeing the top tier making so much more money while the rest of us fight for scraps.
gabrielmalinois 10/26/2011 11:06am
10/26/2011 11:06am
CamP wrote:
Blaming unions is a major cop out. Only 6% of the private sector jobs are Union. The other 94% of private sector jobs in the US...
Blaming unions is a major cop out. Only 6% of the private sector jobs are Union. The other 94% of private sector jobs in the US are non-union.

Like I just said in my previous post, now that the imports have such a large market share, the corporate owners have raised the prices of these products to the same levels as US made products. It's happened slowly, but now the margins that these corporations are getting are huge, and that's a big part of the reason you are seeing the top tier making so much more money while the rest of us fight for scraps.
What about public sector jobs?
CamP
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CamP 10/26/2011 11:20am
10/26/2011 11:20am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 11:23am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
What about public sector jobs?
The public sector jobs are such a small percentage of the overall work force that they have much less impact than the private sector.

Domestic manufacturing fuels the GDP and the GDP fuels the economy. With the ability to off-shore manufacturing, the US corporations have been able to fuel a high GNP, which far exceeds any other country in the world, but it comes at a cost to the average American citizen. The winners in that game are only the corporate owners and the people in far away countries that can now afford a few extra bowls of rice.

Globalization is code for a redistribution of wealth to those that are already the wealthiest.
gabrielmalinois 10/26/2011 11:27am
10/26/2011 11:27am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
What about public sector jobs?
CamP wrote:
The public sector jobs are such a small percentage of the overall work force that they have much less impact than the private sector. Domestic manufacturing...
The public sector jobs are such a small percentage of the overall work force that they have much less impact than the private sector.

Domestic manufacturing fuels the GDP and the GDP fuels the economy. With the ability to off-shore manufacturing, the US corporations have been able to fuel a high GNP, which far exceeds any other country in the world, but it comes at a cost to the average American citizen. The winners in that game are only the corporate owners and the people in far away countries that can now afford a few extra bowls of rice.

Globalization is code for a redistribution of wealth to those that are already the wealthiest.
So you are saying public sector labor jobs (not administrative but labor) are a small percentage?

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

In 2010, 7.6 million public sector employees belonged to a union, compared with 7.1 million union workers in the private sector. The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent).
dougie
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dougie 10/26/2011 11:34am
10/26/2011 11:34am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
So, the middle class income unions obtained for the vast number of employees in manufacturing shouldn't have existed. Unions ruined what should not have been there...
So, the middle class income unions obtained for the vast number of employees in manufacturing shouldn't have existed. Unions ruined what should not have been there in the first place because it was obtained by organization. Okay.

I do think it's fair to say that both labor and management share blame for not being adept enough to respond to economic stress by taking the long view rather than pressuring for self interest in the short term.

It's also certainly true that American consumers shot themselves in the foot by putting a premium on low price over American manufacturing. The manufacturing sector cannot contribute to the middle class what it did before, and that hit on disposable income degrades the opportunities for other middle class wage earners in other sectors.

Here's an interesting article that addresses some of the issues in the OP's topic. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/income-inequality-i…
That was a good read. Including the letters. Thanks
KAWboy14
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KAWboy14 10/26/2011 11:36am
10/26/2011 11:36am
rich people are smart.....poor people are stupid!




























HA Smile
KAWboy14
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KAWboy14 10/26/2011 11:39am
10/26/2011 11:39am
CamP wrote:
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class...
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class is left without jobs. It's that sucking sound that Ross Perot was talking about 20 years ago.
yep! nafta


all they have to do is tax the heck out of imports into america so that it balances the low wage across the seas.......a smart business man said that this year, Trump but everyone voted him off the island. they would rather have a guy with a big credit card making desicions

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CamP
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CamP 10/26/2011 12:39pm
10/26/2011 12:39pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
So you are saying public sector labor jobs (not administrative but labor) are a small percentage? [url=http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm]U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics[/url] [i]In 2010, 7.6 million public...
So you are saying public sector labor jobs (not administrative but labor) are a small percentage?

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

In 2010, 7.6 million public sector employees belonged to a union, compared with 7.1 million union workers in the private sector. The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent).
With a civilian work force of 155 million, that's a drop in the bucket.
gabrielmalinois 10/26/2011 1:12pm
10/26/2011 1:12pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
So you are saying public sector labor jobs (not administrative but labor) are a small percentage? [url=http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm]U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics[/url] [i]In 2010, 7.6 million public...
So you are saying public sector labor jobs (not administrative but labor) are a small percentage?

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

In 2010, 7.6 million public sector employees belonged to a union, compared with 7.1 million union workers in the private sector. The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent).
CamP wrote:
With a civilian work force of 155 million, that's a drop in the bucket.
More than 36% of government workers is a drop in the bucket when the private sector is 6.9%? That doesn't even include the contracted private companies that have to use union labor in order to do business with the government.
CamP
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CamP 10/26/2011 1:19pm
10/26/2011 1:19pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 1:19pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
More than 36% of government workers is a drop in the bucket when the private sector is 6.9%? That doesn't even include the contracted private companies...
More than 36% of government workers is a drop in the bucket when the private sector is 6.9%? That doesn't even include the contracted private companies that have to use union labor in order to do business with the government.
Most of the GDP is created by the private sector. You are picking the fly shit out of the pepper.

Since when does the Fed require vendors to use Union labor?
Frogman
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Frogman 10/26/2011 1:25pm
10/26/2011 1:25pm
CamP wrote:
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class...
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class is left without jobs. It's that sucking sound that Ross Perot was talking about 20 years ago.
KAWboy14 wrote:
yep! nafta all they have to do is tax the heck out of imports into america so that it balances the low wage across the seas.......a...
yep! nafta


all they have to do is tax the heck out of imports into america so that it balances the low wage across the seas.......a smart business man said that this year, Trump but everyone voted him off the island. they would rather have a guy with a big credit card making desicions
WTO won't let us get away with that. China sure...US nope.
flarider
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flarider 10/26/2011 2:01pm
10/26/2011 2:01pm
In threads like this I always wonder, does Vital really have a large multi-millionaire readership, or do many just think and speak on the basis of "what if and when" they believe they will become millionaires?
Antipodean 10/26/2011 5:25pm
10/26/2011 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 5:25pm
Racer92 wrote: "Bend over and grab yer ankles America, Big Money has something for you !"

Do you have to supply your own Vaseline?
Antipodean 10/26/2011 5:27pm
10/26/2011 5:27pm
KAWboy14 wrote: "rich people are smart.....poor people are stupid!"

Does that mean we really aren't all created equal?
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/26/2011 6:12pm
10/26/2011 6:12pm
I'm not rich...hell...I only get paid $54K a year...and the guy I work for is a real ass-hole.

The Benis are great and I meet a lot of nice people...even in Vegas!

Buy, ya, like I said...the guy I work for is a real ass-hole.

I hear flarider's got the same problem...
Void Main
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Void Main 10/26/2011 6:15pm
10/26/2011 6:15pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm not rich...hell...I only get paid $54K a year...and the guy I work for is a real ass-hole. The Benis are great and I meet a...
I'm not rich...hell...I only get paid $54K a year...and the guy I work for is a real ass-hole.

The Benis are great and I meet a lot of nice people...even in Vegas!

Buy, ya, like I said...the guy I work for is a real ass-hole.

I hear flarider's got the same problem...
From what I know of both of your bosses I would have to agree 100%.
eddie
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eddie 10/26/2011 11:15pm
10/26/2011 11:15pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it...
I think there are many complex factors that have contributed to the wealth gap but being hyperbole is the primary language here I will address it that way. Unions and baby boomers have created this predicament. Unions because they have finally squeezed all of the blood from the rock of the American people and have forced the otherwise reluctant corporations to seek other venues for manufacturing. The Unions mentality that they should receive top dollar and extravagant benefits for work that a well trained monkey could do and bribing the Democrat politicians who negotiate the majority of their contracts and create laws that cater to the unions unreasonable demands have created a business climate that simply cannot be profitable. Baby boomers because the lingering effects of bong resin on their brain cause many to still believe in the nonsense utopian vision they had during a drum circle in the sixties that the government should take all of the money from the bad corporations and distribute it to those who would rather dance in fields of daisies than work.
txmxer wrote:
LOL...god stuff. Tell us another story.
lmao ! my fave part was this ....

"and have forced the otherwise reluctant corporations to seek other venues for manufacturing."


otherwise reluctant corporations ..... comedy gold right there .
eddie
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eddie 10/26/2011 11:17pm
10/26/2011 11:17pm
CamP wrote:
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class...
This situation is the result of American manufacturers being allowed to move their manufacturing off shore. The corporate owners make more money and the middle class is left without jobs. It's that sucking sound that Ross Perot was talking about 20 years ago.
KAWboy14 wrote:
yep! nafta all they have to do is tax the heck out of imports into america so that it balances the low wage across the seas.......a...
yep! nafta


all they have to do is tax the heck out of imports into america so that it balances the low wage across the seas.......a smart business man said that this year, Trump but everyone voted him off the island. they would rather have a guy with a big credit card making desicions
Frogman wrote:
WTO won't let us get away with that. China sure...US nope.
correct .

who is always pushing the government to sign free trade agreements ?
SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 10/26/2011 11:34pm
10/26/2011 11:34pm
Sadly, they try to settle things with "Moon Beams and Butterfly Kisses".
Time to nut-up. Or we'll be celebrating something other than Christmas.

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