Not rich? No job? Blame yourself

kongols
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10/6/2011 10:46am
Sherwood wrote:
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have...
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have lost touch of the normal American.
Frogman wrote:
Absent some mental or physical impairment...there is no real reason why anyone can't be a millionaire in a lifetime. Laziness is not an impairment.
So basically you think that everybody is as genius as Gates or Jobs, they`re just lazy? Did I get you right?
Sherwood
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10/6/2011 10:53am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 10:54am
Sherwood wrote:
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have...
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have lost touch of the normal American.
Frogman wrote:
Absent some mental or physical impairment...there is no real reason why anyone can't be a millionaire in a lifetime. Laziness is not an impairment.
I consider saving your entire life to make a million different than being a millionaire which usually entitles you run/own a multimillion company.
Void Main
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10/6/2011 11:02am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 11:05am
Sherwood wrote:
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have...
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have lost touch of the normal American.
Frogman wrote:
Absent some mental or physical impairment...there is no real reason why anyone can't be a millionaire in a lifetime. Laziness is not an impairment.
kongols wrote:
So basically you think that everybody is as genius as Gates or Jobs, they`re just lazy? Did I get you right?
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many many other people. Hell, George Bush Jr has an IQ of 3 and he was president of the United Sates. It's not how smart you are, it's how motivated you are. Gates and Jobs both have an internal motivation/desire. They "wanted" it. I believe anyone can "want" something and succeed similarly. The problem is figuring out how to motivate yourself. My problem, like most other loser Americans that Cain is referring to is I am not motivated enough to reach higher. I am satisfied with mediocrity. That's on me.
flarider
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10/6/2011 11:05am
Void Main wrote:
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many...
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many many other people. Hell, George Bush Jr has an IQ of 3 and he was president of the United Sates. It's not how smart you are, it's how motivated you are. Gates and Jobs both have an internal motivation/desire. They "wanted" it. I believe anyone can "want" something and succeed similarly. The problem is figuring out how to motivate yourself. My problem, like most other loser Americans that Cain is referring to is I am not motivated enough to reach higher. I am satisfied with mediocrity. That's on me.
By that same thought process, there is isn't any reason that anyone cannot be as fast and as great as JS, MC or RV
Anyone can do it.

Anyone can be as fast as Villopoto or Dungey if they want to be.
Anyone can be Ricky Carmichael

The Shop

SteveS
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10/6/2011 11:10am
It's the American Way!
Grendel
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10/6/2011 11:10am
Guys, it's all here:

kongols
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10/6/2011 11:12am
Frogman
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10/6/2011 11:20am
Sherwood wrote:
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have...
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have lost touch of the normal American.
Frogman wrote:
Absent some mental or physical impairment...there is no real reason why anyone can't be a millionaire in a lifetime. Laziness is not an impairment.
kongols wrote:
So basically you think that everybody is as genius as Gates or Jobs, they`re just lazy? Did I get you right?
No, baisically I think anbody that isn't physically or mentally impaired can accumulate 1 million dollars...as I plainly typed.
jmar
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10/6/2011 11:21am
Void Main wrote:
Wow, I like him even more now. He's 100% correct. If you don't succeed like Cain has succeed it IS your fault. There is nothing wrong...
Wow, I like him even more now. He's 100% correct. If you don't succeed like Cain has succeed it IS your fault. There is nothing wrong with that of course because some people are perfectly happy not being as successful as Cain, and as flarider pointed out the world DOES need ditch diggers too. You can sit at home without a job and pout all you want waiting for a government handout but there is work out there if you really want to work. Also, don't live beyond your means and the big banks won't have as much of an effect on your life. My problem was when the government bailed those fuckers out. I would have let the shit fail. Guess that's why I'm not in the white house. Smile I will never be as successful as Cain and it IS completely my fault. I totally understand that. If I really wanted to be as successful as Cain I believe that I "could" be but I just am not willing to put in the effort required. That's my choice. If I did want to be as successful as Cain I know that the first step to getting there would be to stop spending my time posting on VitalMX Non-Moto. I just have too much fun doing it. Wink
You're missing the point. His reference is to those protesting the wrongs of wall street.

What he is basically saying is, wall street has done nothing wrong, and those who want the status quo changed, to where people are held accountable for their actions, are just a bunch of jealous lazy fucks.

I would have no problem with him saying what he did, in a different context. And as far as people being responsible for their own destiny, I totally agree with that also, but is's not possible today because of the fraud, greed and abuse of our financial system. A person can work their ass off, do everything they need to do as far as being a good employee, and still lose their job, or their business tomorrow.
Frogman
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10/6/2011 11:24am
Sherwood wrote:
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have...
This is a constant idea of dumb republicans that think that everyone has the same opportunity and that everyone can be a millionaire. Both parties have lost touch of the normal American.
Frogman wrote:
Absent some mental or physical impairment...there is no real reason why anyone can't be a millionaire in a lifetime. Laziness is not an impairment.
Sherwood wrote:
I consider saving your entire life to make a million different than being a millionaire which usually entitles you run/own a multimillion company.
Clarification noted...but the literal meaning of "can be a millionaire" is that someone could "be a millionaire" before they kick the bucket.

I agree, not everyone can run/own a multi-million dollar company....usually due to some impairment or lack of motivation.
Frogman
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10/6/2011 11:25am
Yes
Void Main
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10/6/2011 11:48am
Void Main wrote:
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many...
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many many other people. Hell, George Bush Jr has an IQ of 3 and he was president of the United Sates. It's not how smart you are, it's how motivated you are. Gates and Jobs both have an internal motivation/desire. They "wanted" it. I believe anyone can "want" something and succeed similarly. The problem is figuring out how to motivate yourself. My problem, like most other loser Americans that Cain is referring to is I am not motivated enough to reach higher. I am satisfied with mediocrity. That's on me.
flarider wrote:
By that same thought process, there is isn't any reason that anyone cannot be as fast and as great as JS, MC or RV Anyone can...
By that same thought process, there is isn't any reason that anyone cannot be as fast and as great as JS, MC or RV
Anyone can do it.

Anyone can be as fast as Villopoto or Dungey if they want to be.
Anyone can be Ricky Carmichael
Not exactly. What you are saying is half way between what I am saying and saying that anyone can be as "tall" as they want to be. Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability. I will say that I can almost guarantee that there are many people in the world that have never even ridden a dirt bike who could be as fast or faster than any of those guys. The thing is that they didn't have the desire to do it. It is the "desire" part that is the key element. Where's that Steve Jobs video that was posted last night. Steve even said as much in that video. I'll go dig it up.
flarider
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10/6/2011 12:01pm
Void Main wrote:
Not exactly. What you are saying is half way between what I am saying and saying that anyone can be as "tall" as they want to...
Not exactly. What you are saying is half way between what I am saying and saying that anyone can be as "tall" as they want to be. Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability. I will say that I can almost guarantee that there are many people in the world that have never even ridden a dirt bike who could be as fast or faster than any of those guys. The thing is that they didn't have the desire to do it. It is the "desire" part that is the key element. Where's that Steve Jobs video that was posted last night. Steve even said as much in that video. I'll go dig it up.
"...Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability."

But it is restricted by mental ability.
May not have the IQ, confidence or fortitude.
For every person that you say might have the ability to be as fast as RC, but never ridden a bike, there's another guy who can't coordinate a hand clutch & throttle along with foot shifting.

Blanket assumptions typically prove ignorant.
To assume anyone and everyone possesses the mental capacity or wherewithal to build and/or succeed in business is pure silliness.
That's akin to saying anyone can be a lawyer if they so chose or that anyone could be a neurosurgeon if they so chose.
SteveS
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10/6/2011 12:09pm
flarider wrote:
[i]"...Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability."[/i] But it is restricted by mental ability. May not have the IQ, confidence or fortitude. For every person...
"...Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability."

But it is restricted by mental ability.
May not have the IQ, confidence or fortitude.
For every person that you say might have the ability to be as fast as RC, but never ridden a bike, there's another guy who can't coordinate a hand clutch & throttle along with foot shifting.

Blanket assumptions typically prove ignorant.
To assume anyone and everyone possesses the mental capacity or wherewithal to build and/or succeed in business is pure silliness.
That's akin to saying anyone can be a lawyer if they so chose or that anyone could be a neurosurgeon if they so chose.
You're right. Not everyone has the lack of scruples to be a lawyer. But that doesn't mean they can't be successful.

And I know some guys who were dumber than a box of rocks in high school who've done very well building houses and have accumulated more wealth than I have.
motogeezer
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10/6/2011 12:22pm
Void Main wrote:
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many...
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many many other people. Hell, George Bush Jr has an IQ of 3 and he was president of the United Sates. It's not how smart you are, it's how motivated you are. Gates and Jobs both have an internal motivation/desire. They "wanted" it. I believe anyone can "want" something and succeed similarly. The problem is figuring out how to motivate yourself. My problem, like most other loser Americans that Cain is referring to is I am not motivated enough to reach higher. I am satisfied with mediocrity. That's on me.
I've been working my ass off for the last twenty years building a company with my brother.

We went from him and I painting houses, to a multi-million dollar commercial painting company in the first five years.

Over the last few years, we've laid off all but about a dozen painters (all of whom have taken a cut in pay and given up their health insurance), and my brother and I have both cashed in our retirement accounts and have been living on those and our savings accounts for the last couple of years.

I'm now working harder than ever just to keep the doors open.

It's all my fault, though.

The economy taking a shit due to greedy-assed conglomerates, bankers and market speculators has nothing to do with it.

Things are finally looking up a little, but the light at the end of the tunnel is still way the fuck down there.
dougie
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10/6/2011 12:51pm
I hear theres an upper level position open at Apple. Think I'll send them a resume' . Wish me luck Smile
RocketLab
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10/6/2011 1:06pm
motogeezer wrote:
I've been working my ass off for the last twenty years building a company with my brother. We went from him and I painting houses, to...
I've been working my ass off for the last twenty years building a company with my brother.

We went from him and I painting houses, to a multi-million dollar commercial painting company in the first five years.

Over the last few years, we've laid off all but about a dozen painters (all of whom have taken a cut in pay and given up their health insurance), and my brother and I have both cashed in our retirement accounts and have been living on those and our savings accounts for the last couple of years.

I'm now working harder than ever just to keep the doors open.

It's all my fault, though.

The economy taking a shit due to greedy-assed conglomerates, bankers and market speculators has nothing to do with it.

Things are finally looking up a little, but the light at the end of the tunnel is still way the fuck down there.
You not only get what they are protesting about you're living it.
CR250Rider
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10/6/2011 1:08pm
IQ of about 125.

1206 sat

bush that is
jimmie
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10/6/2011 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 1:42pm
You all are reading way too far into this.

He didn't say you should have an IQ of 130.
Didn't say everyone can be a mega star athlete.
Didn't say everyone should have made the money he had made.

He is just saying, indirectly, it is up to each one of us to do the best we can,with whatever (skills) we possess, and not to blame the rest of world for what you do, or do not have. That's all.

You all sound like you're spinning this way too much.
Frogman
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10/6/2011 1:14pm
Offhand you appear to be playing a semantics game. Why can't everyone who is motivated and functional be a millionaire? What rule is there in economics that contradicts that?
WORCSRacer
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10/6/2011 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 1:32pm
Void Main wrote:
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many...
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many many other people. Hell, George Bush Jr has an IQ of 3 and he was president of the United Sates. It's not how smart you are, it's how motivated you are. Gates and Jobs both have an internal motivation/desire. They "wanted" it. I believe anyone can "want" something and succeed similarly. The problem is figuring out how to motivate yourself. My problem, like most other loser Americans that Cain is referring to is I am not motivated enough to reach higher. I am satisfied with mediocrity. That's on me.
flarider wrote:
By that same thought process, there is isn't any reason that anyone cannot be as fast and as great as JS, MC or RV Anyone can...
By that same thought process, there is isn't any reason that anyone cannot be as fast and as great as JS, MC or RV
Anyone can do it.

Anyone can be as fast as Villopoto or Dungey if they want to be.
Anyone can be Ricky Carmichael
Dave I really like your thinking here!!!

Those guys have only gotten to where they are by luck! Who cares how hard they worked or what they have invested in the "success" if it weren't for good luck they would have nothing. Really why should someone have to make a sacrifice to even attempt and be as "successful" as they are? I think its time for them to pay their "fair share" because if it wasn't for the guys riding around in 6th through 40th they would be nothing!!

From now on the Ryan's, JS ect... should be required to take at least 35% of their earnings and give it back to the AMA so the AMA can give it to back to the rest of the pro field (of course after taking as much as 60% of it to fund themselves). Then each track ought to take another 5 to 10 percent for themselves and give a bit more to the guys who aren't as lucky. They also ought to be made to pay for their parking spaces and the security to keep other from stealing the stuff. Oh and while we are at it because that isn't enough, I think that we ought to require them to pay for the other riders insurance even if they are a crack smoker or whatever dumbshit thing they are up to.

We can call this new idea "the New Deal".
flarider
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10/6/2011 1:43pm
Yeah, that's what I said
motogeezer
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10/6/2011 1:47pm
jimmie wrote:
You all are reading way too far into this. He didn't say you should have an IQ of 130. Didn't say everyone can be a mega...
You all are reading way too far into this.

He didn't say you should have an IQ of 130.
Didn't say everyone can be a mega star athlete.
Didn't say everyone should have made the money he had made.

He is just saying, indirectly, it is up to each one of us to do the best we can,with whatever (skills) we possess, and not to blame the rest of world for what you do, or do not have. That's all.

You all sound like you're spinning this way too much.
I'm the one who brought up the IQ, but that was just a small part of my point.

The fact is that many jobs that people used to hold to make a meager living and have a reasonably comfortable existence are no longer available in the U.S.

What about all the folks that are perfectly happy to put in their best effort stamping out parts, or running a lathe, or putting soles on shoes for eight ours a day, as long as their family has food on the table, a roof over their heads, and can maybe go out bowling on Friday nights.

Those are the majority of people collecting what so many like to call "Entitlements".
Frogman
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10/6/2011 1:48pm
flarider wrote:
Yeah, that's what I said
Well I agree with you that everyone can't be in the top .5% of motocross racers or successful entreprenuers but that wasn't the point that Cain was making.
Void Main
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10/6/2011 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 2:03pm
Void Main wrote:
Not exactly. What you are saying is half way between what I am saying and saying that anyone can be as "tall" as they want to...
Not exactly. What you are saying is half way between what I am saying and saying that anyone can be as "tall" as they want to be. Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability. I will say that I can almost guarantee that there are many people in the world that have never even ridden a dirt bike who could be as fast or faster than any of those guys. The thing is that they didn't have the desire to do it. It is the "desire" part that is the key element. Where's that Steve Jobs video that was posted last night. Steve even said as much in that video. I'll go dig it up.
flarider wrote:
[i]"...Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability."[/i] But it is restricted by mental ability. May not have the IQ, confidence or fortitude. For every person...
"...Becoming wealthy isn't restricted to a physical ability."

But it is restricted by mental ability.
May not have the IQ, confidence or fortitude.
For every person that you say might have the ability to be as fast as RC, but never ridden a bike, there's another guy who can't coordinate a hand clutch & throttle along with foot shifting.

Blanket assumptions typically prove ignorant.
To assume anyone and everyone possesses the mental capacity or wherewithal to build and/or succeed in business is pure silliness.
That's akin to saying anyone can be a lawyer if they so chose or that anyone could be a neurosurgeon if they so chose.
- IQ
- Confidence
- Fortitude

IQ - I personally don't believe (and I certainly could be wrong) that IQ is much of a factor at all in becoming wealthy. I have a very high IQ (although I don't feel like it a couple of tests have shown it to be true). I could not be considered wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. I know of many people who I am fairly certain have an IQ much lower than myself who are wealthy. Take huck for example.

Confidence - I will definitely agree with this one. This is VERY important but I don't believe confidence is a genetic thing. Again, I could be wrong but I do believe that you can do things to improve your confidence. I am sure you would agree.

Fortitude - See confidence.

I will add to that list the ones I already mentioned:

- Desire
- Motivation
- Willing to make the necessary sacrifices

I believe that all of the things mentioned are important pieces for one to become wealthy (excluding lottery) except for the IQ part. Yes, it may help to be smarter than a rock, but it isn't required if you have all of the other things. "Almost" everyone has the ability to learn. Again I will ask the question, if I am so smart why am I not wealthy? The answer is because I lack the desire, motivation and I am not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get there. I am happy posting on VitalMX non-Moto all day. I do what I need to do to keep my belly full and my bike full of gas and not much more. I'm happy with that. I also am not expecting handouts from someone who did work their ass off to become wealthy just because they are wealthy. If I desire enough to be wealthy I will put in the work required to get me there.
jmar
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10/6/2011 1:57pm
jimmie wrote:
You all are reading way too far into this. He didn't say you should have an IQ of 130. Didn't say everyone can be a mega...
You all are reading way too far into this.

He didn't say you should have an IQ of 130.
Didn't say everyone can be a mega star athlete.
Didn't say everyone should have made the money he had made.

He is just saying, indirectly, it is up to each one of us to do the best we can,with whatever (skills) we possess, and not to blame the rest of world for what you do, or do not have. That's all.

You all sound like you're spinning this way too much.
Jimmie

Are you responseable for the meltdown? Did you run your business into the ground?

Cain's comments were pointed at those who are protesting wall streets wrongs. No making something more than it is, no spin period. Cain thinks all is well as far as wall street, and anyone who wants to change status quo is lazy. The guy is a total nutbag.
Frogman
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10/6/2011 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 2:04pm
motogeezer wrote:
I'm the one who brought up the IQ, but that was just a small part of my point. The fact is that many jobs that people...
I'm the one who brought up the IQ, but that was just a small part of my point.

The fact is that many jobs that people used to hold to make a meager living and have a reasonably comfortable existence are no longer available in the U.S.

What about all the folks that are perfectly happy to put in their best effort stamping out parts, or running a lathe, or putting soles on shoes for eight ours a day, as long as their family has food on the table, a roof over their heads, and can maybe go out bowling on Friday nights.

Those are the majority of people collecting what so many like to call "Entitlements".
I am sure somebody would like to build horse drawn buggies for a living (some still do actually) but part of being motivated means preparing yourself to do the jobs available. Building wealth starts with spending wisely and saving...and possibly working multiple jobs.

If you are perfectly happy sitting back and squeeking by on a single minimum wage job and collecting goverment subsidies...then yes, you aren't going to be wealthy. It's common sense really.
Void Main
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10/6/2011 2:00pm
Void Main wrote:
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many...
Absolutely. Those are two very good examples actually. Neither of those two even have a college degree. How about Colonel Sanders, or Dave Thomas, or many many other people. Hell, George Bush Jr has an IQ of 3 and he was president of the United Sates. It's not how smart you are, it's how motivated you are. Gates and Jobs both have an internal motivation/desire. They "wanted" it. I believe anyone can "want" something and succeed similarly. The problem is figuring out how to motivate yourself. My problem, like most other loser Americans that Cain is referring to is I am not motivated enough to reach higher. I am satisfied with mediocrity. That's on me.
motogeezer wrote:
I've been working my ass off for the last twenty years building a company with my brother. We went from him and I painting houses, to...
I've been working my ass off for the last twenty years building a company with my brother.

We went from him and I painting houses, to a multi-million dollar commercial painting company in the first five years.

Over the last few years, we've laid off all but about a dozen painters (all of whom have taken a cut in pay and given up their health insurance), and my brother and I have both cashed in our retirement accounts and have been living on those and our savings accounts for the last couple of years.

I'm now working harder than ever just to keep the doors open.

It's all my fault, though.

The economy taking a shit due to greedy-assed conglomerates, bankers and market speculators has nothing to do with it.

Things are finally looking up a little, but the light at the end of the tunnel is still way the fuck down there.
It's good that you were able to create your business based on the need for houses to be painted. If new methods of building come along that do not require painting and you do not change your business to adapt to the new technology should the rest of us have to keep funding you to make up the difference? I'm just creating a hypothetical that may or may not apply to your business. I guess my point is, you have to be able to adapt to the times. If you can no longer make it painting you have to find some other way to make it. That's what pissed me off about the car company bailouts. Why should we have to prop up the car companies? If the business model isn't working it needs to be changed. If tomorrow everyone starts using another form of transportation and no longer has a need for cars do we continue to pump money into the car companies?
Void Main
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10/6/2011 2:02pm
jimmie wrote:
You all are reading way too far into this. He didn't say you should have an IQ of 130. Didn't say everyone can be a mega...
You all are reading way too far into this.

He didn't say you should have an IQ of 130.
Didn't say everyone can be a mega star athlete.
Didn't say everyone should have made the money he had made.

He is just saying, indirectly, it is up to each one of us to do the best we can,with whatever (skills) we possess, and not to blame the rest of world for what you do, or do not have. That's all.

You all sound like you're spinning this way too much.
jmar wrote:
Jimmie Are you responseable for the meltdown? Did you run your business into the ground? Cain's comments were pointed at those who are protesting wall streets...
Jimmie

Are you responseable for the meltdown? Did you run your business into the ground?

Cain's comments were pointed at those who are protesting wall streets wrongs. No making something more than it is, no spin period. Cain thinks all is well as far as wall street, and anyone who wants to change status quo is lazy. The guy is a total nutbag.
jmar, specifically how has the Wall Street wrongs effected you? It's an honest question that I only ask because I want to try and understand your point of view.

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