Questions Dr. Chris Leatt

williamsmotowerx 8/25/2011 7:53am
8/25/2011 7:53am
I just checked , not up on Stitcher yet. Soon?
brakkeman_ 8/25/2011 9:19am
8/25/2011 9:19am
It's up, I've downloaded the "Leatt" part alone.
sbarrington314 8/25/2011 10:29am
8/25/2011 10:29am
corneldejongh wrote:
Hi mjskier and others Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace. Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a...
Hi mjskier and others

Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace.

Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a cervical (neck) fracture. Just about all Moto riders I know have fractured a collar bone at least once. An interesting thought to consider: How often do you see a collar bone fractured inwards (in other words into the shoulder? If this was the case in every fractured collar bone with the use of the brace, I would start to think that the brace might have something to do with it. But, as per usual (as without the brace) throughout all the years, the collar bone fractures outwards..so how could the brace have done this. (only by pulling the collar bone upwards and out of the skin..impossible me thinks :-))

The mid thoracic spine (T5-T8) is the most commonly injured area of the back (actually of the whole spinal unit). This is well documented in literature. This is because this is the point of maximum curvature of the spine and if you imagine pushing a twig from either end, it will snap at its point of maximum curvature. So the fact that the Leatt Brace's strut ends in this region has nothing to do with these fractures. They have always been around and have not increased or decreased since the advent of the brace. Another thing is that the strut was designed to fracture away at 300N of force, this is 30x lower than the 9000N limit for back protectors as per EN regulations..so I think that the strut is safe in terms of causing penetrative injury to the spine. Basically the strut only needs to be there long enough to stabilize the brace during a crash where the head goes into hyperextension (bending backwards). As soon as the dangerous forces in the neck are reduced, the strut has done its job and will give way (at 300N of force..very low).

With regards to collecting real-world data: Leatt does do this in conjunction with the UCI, WMI, MSA, AMA, and obviously riders provide data via Leatt's online injury assessment database. Over time Leatt will be able to publish broad statistics regarding the benefits of the brace over a wide population. This obviously does take time (and effort from many different parties) ..but promising results have been observed. I think a good idea will be a 10 year assessment. This will give a good broad spectrum analysis of where Leatt's product is at in terms of benefit to the riders out there. Watch this space.

I think Leatt really has a passion for good research/testing/simulation into their products. I only ever see Leatt present (and presenting at) at big conferences held over the world, including the MX Safety Summit organised by Mayo Clinic and Asterisk Medical Group as well as international spinal chord injury prevention conferences and the like. This should tell you something right?

Cornel de Jongh
Biomedical Engineer
do you work for leatt?

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DrSweden
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DrSweden 8/25/2011 10:58am
8/25/2011 10:58am
David Izer wrote:
That was a great interview last night with Dr. Leatt. I was very impressed with his knowledge and he didn't dodge a single hard question.
Very good interview (as usual). And as you pointed out I think the good Dr did a really good job answering ALL questions. My doubts are actually less now, and those who questions this invention needs to step up or shut up! Smile

BUT, despite all the lab test, all suggestions, all the indications as AMA racing now has less neck injuries (that data must be pretty thin) the truth is in the future. I would stick to my shares in this company for sure, but I was not totally convinced with the T-vertebra injury argument being the same or even less thing. He has no data yet to support that, and again can make sense, but I'm sure you can also make a case that those 300 N might be 30 x less than 9000N level, but it's still 300 N more than nothing. But I don't have enough knowledge to question this, but I trust only in hard end points, which will come one day and until then I just believe in the product.

Good stuff and tnx for doing the interview lads!
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David Izer 8/25/2011 11:35am
8/25/2011 11:35am
Thx for the solid questions, DrSweden. Much appreciated.
sbarrington314 8/25/2011 11:44am
8/25/2011 11:44am Edited Date/Time 8/25/2011 11:45am
id be interested to see what force is required to break the back part off of the Astars brace. for that matter, id like to see side by side data on everything.
is there a difference in breaking point between the new leatt and old leatt? i was told by 1 person yes and another no. ive also heard of leatt employees telling people that they can buy a new thoracic strut that is revised to break off under less force.
and just because its 30x lower than a regulation on some back protector doesnt mean anything IMO. again i think this is their way of throwing out numbers to make it look good.
DrSweden
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DrSweden 8/25/2011 11:55am
8/25/2011 11:55am
David Izer wrote:
Thx for the solid questions, DrSweden. Much appreciated.
Good because they kind of suited my own curiosity as well! Wink
Berry
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Berry 8/25/2011 12:08pm
8/25/2011 12:08pm
corneldejongh wrote:
Hi mjskier and others Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace. Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a...
Hi mjskier and others

Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace.

Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a cervical (neck) fracture. Just about all Moto riders I know have fractured a collar bone at least once. An interesting thought to consider: How often do you see a collar bone fractured inwards (in other words into the shoulder? If this was the case in every fractured collar bone with the use of the brace, I would start to think that the brace might have something to do with it. But, as per usual (as without the brace) throughout all the years, the collar bone fractures outwards..so how could the brace have done this. (only by pulling the collar bone upwards and out of the skin..impossible me thinks :-))

The mid thoracic spine (T5-T8) is the most commonly injured area of the back (actually of the whole spinal unit). This is well documented in literature. This is because this is the point of maximum curvature of the spine and if you imagine pushing a twig from either end, it will snap at its point of maximum curvature. So the fact that the Leatt Brace's strut ends in this region has nothing to do with these fractures. They have always been around and have not increased or decreased since the advent of the brace. Another thing is that the strut was designed to fracture away at 300N of force, this is 30x lower than the 9000N limit for back protectors as per EN regulations..so I think that the strut is safe in terms of causing penetrative injury to the spine. Basically the strut only needs to be there long enough to stabilize the brace during a crash where the head goes into hyperextension (bending backwards). As soon as the dangerous forces in the neck are reduced, the strut has done its job and will give way (at 300N of force..very low).

With regards to collecting real-world data: Leatt does do this in conjunction with the UCI, WMI, MSA, AMA, and obviously riders provide data via Leatt's online injury assessment database. Over time Leatt will be able to publish broad statistics regarding the benefits of the brace over a wide population. This obviously does take time (and effort from many different parties) ..but promising results have been observed. I think a good idea will be a 10 year assessment. This will give a good broad spectrum analysis of where Leatt's product is at in terms of benefit to the riders out there. Watch this space.

I think Leatt really has a passion for good research/testing/simulation into their products. I only ever see Leatt present (and presenting at) at big conferences held over the world, including the MX Safety Summit organised by Mayo Clinic and Asterisk Medical Group as well as international spinal chord injury prevention conferences and the like. This should tell you something right?

Cornel de Jongh
Biomedical Engineer
Both my sons fractured T5. 1 as the Dr said "was within a mm of being paralized" As the strut end directly on T5 there is no way any one can convince me the brace had nothing to do with it. I belive it is a huge design fault. I never tell riders not to or to wear them as its a difficult decision however Ive made my choice. I did on both occassions expect some correspondance from leatt re questions about the brace for research however still havnt heard anything.
bradmx421 8/25/2011 12:13pm
8/25/2011 12:13pm
i have a question..

...i have heard from a few different people because of my past neck injury that i should not wear a leatt brace. of course every doctor says i should never ever ride...but who listens to that? thats like telling me to rip my heart out.

anyways, i have a previous neck injury my 6th and 7th are fused....and ive been told a leatt would put to much pressure in a fall. im just wondering because i was already fortuante enough to walk away from this injury with no paralisis and i would like anything to help prevent any further injurys to my neck. this injury is fairly old. it happened at perris reaceway when i was 18 and im now 32. i still have neck pains of course.....but i will never stop riding.
CamP
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CamP 8/25/2011 12:17pm
8/25/2011 12:17pm
Berry wrote:
Both my sons fractured T5. 1 as the Dr said "was within a mm of being paralized" As the strut end directly on T5 there is...
Both my sons fractured T5. 1 as the Dr said "was within a mm of being paralized" As the strut end directly on T5 there is no way any one can convince me the brace had nothing to do with it. I belive it is a huge design fault. I never tell riders not to or to wear them as its a difficult decision however Ive made my choice. I did on both occassions expect some correspondance from leatt re questions about the brace for research however still havnt heard anything.
Do you know how they impacted the ground or do you have video of their crashes? When I broke T6 it was due to hyperflexion of my neck, which would have loaded the sternum, and not the back stabilizer, had I been wearing a brace. I did about 5/8th's of a front flip before I landed on the back of my head.
Berry
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Berry 8/25/2011 12:39pm
8/25/2011 12:39pm
I just put a brace on pushed my head backwards as far as it would go and the base of the strut dug into my spine. Imagine doing that at full force of a crash. I used the brace that was worn during the accident that caused the fracture and the strut is as solid as a rock.
mjskier
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mjskier 8/25/2011 1:07pm
8/25/2011 1:07pm
Berry wrote:
I just put a brace on pushed my head backwards as far as it would go and the base of the strut dug into my spine...
I just put a brace on pushed my head backwards as far as it would go and the base of the strut dug into my spine. Imagine doing that at full force of a crash. I used the brace that was worn during the accident that caused the fracture and the strut is as solid as a rock.
Do you know what kind of fracture your sons had? Apparently there are several ways to break a vertebrae.
If were are going to collect anecdotal evidences, it would make sense to include that data.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00368
lastlapracer302 8/25/2011 1:26pm
8/25/2011 1:26pm
Man I could kill myself for not being on Vital yesterday..

The question about thoracic injuries got asked, but not in the right way. The questions and answers are all about when your helmet hits the brace forcing it into your spine and the thoracic bar being able to break.

The question that I SHOULD have been on here yesterday to ask is, When you are thrown from the bike and you are flying FACE UP BACKWARDS and land on your back, this allows the rear top lip of the brace to dig into the ground and jab DOWN on the thoracic bar, thus jabbing your spine and breaking it.

I only ask this question because this is what happened to me and while i do believe this brace works, I believe the design of the rear is flawed..

I was completely concious during this crash and I know exactly how this happened.. This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and im sad that I wasnt able to ask the question..
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CamP 8/25/2011 1:37pm
8/25/2011 1:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2011 2:15pm
Berry wrote:
I just put a brace on pushed my head backwards as far as it would go and the base of the strut dug into my spine...
I just put a brace on pushed my head backwards as far as it would go and the base of the strut dug into my spine. Imagine doing that at full force of a crash. I used the brace that was worn during the accident that caused the fracture and the strut is as solid as a rock.
That's why I asked if you saw how they hit the ground or had video. If they had hyperflexion, like I did when I broke T6, then the rear stabilizer never comes into play. Without a close eye witness, or better yet video, it's almost impossible to say what exactly happened during their crashes.
HNR Engineer 8/25/2011 6:36pm
8/25/2011 6:36pm
corneldejongh wrote:
Hi mjskier and others Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace. Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a...
Hi mjskier and others

Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace.

Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a cervical (neck) fracture. Just about all Moto riders I know have fractured a collar bone at least once. An interesting thought to consider: How often do you see a collar bone fractured inwards (in other words into the shoulder? If this was the case in every fractured collar bone with the use of the brace, I would start to think that the brace might have something to do with it. But, as per usual (as without the brace) throughout all the years, the collar bone fractures outwards..so how could the brace have done this. (only by pulling the collar bone upwards and out of the skin..impossible me thinks :-))

The mid thoracic spine (T5-T8) is the most commonly injured area of the back (actually of the whole spinal unit). This is well documented in literature. This is because this is the point of maximum curvature of the spine and if you imagine pushing a twig from either end, it will snap at its point of maximum curvature. So the fact that the Leatt Brace's strut ends in this region has nothing to do with these fractures. They have always been around and have not increased or decreased since the advent of the brace. Another thing is that the strut was designed to fracture away at 300N of force, this is 30x lower than the 9000N limit for back protectors as per EN regulations..so I think that the strut is safe in terms of causing penetrative injury to the spine. Basically the strut only needs to be there long enough to stabilize the brace during a crash where the head goes into hyperextension (bending backwards). As soon as the dangerous forces in the neck are reduced, the strut has done its job and will give way (at 300N of force..very low).

With regards to collecting real-world data: Leatt does do this in conjunction with the UCI, WMI, MSA, AMA, and obviously riders provide data via Leatt's online injury assessment database. Over time Leatt will be able to publish broad statistics regarding the benefits of the brace over a wide population. This obviously does take time (and effort from many different parties) ..but promising results have been observed. I think a good idea will be a 10 year assessment. This will give a good broad spectrum analysis of where Leatt's product is at in terms of benefit to the riders out there. Watch this space.

I think Leatt really has a passion for good research/testing/simulation into their products. I only ever see Leatt present (and presenting at) at big conferences held over the world, including the MX Safety Summit organised by Mayo Clinic and Asterisk Medical Group as well as international spinal chord injury prevention conferences and the like. This should tell you something right?

Cornel de Jongh
Biomedical Engineer
sbarrington314 wrote:
do you work for leatt?
Yes Cornel does work for Leatt, he is on their testing personnel webpage.
HNR Engineer 8/25/2011 6:57pm
8/25/2011 6:57pm
corneldejongh wrote:
Hi mjskier and others Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace. Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a...
Hi mjskier and others

Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace.

Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a cervical (neck) fracture. Just about all Moto riders I know have fractured a collar bone at least once. An interesting thought to consider: How often do you see a collar bone fractured inwards (in other words into the shoulder? If this was the case in every fractured collar bone with the use of the brace, I would start to think that the brace might have something to do with it. But, as per usual (as without the brace) throughout all the years, the collar bone fractures outwards..so how could the brace have done this. (only by pulling the collar bone upwards and out of the skin..impossible me thinks :-))

The mid thoracic spine (T5-T8) is the most commonly injured area of the back (actually of the whole spinal unit). This is well documented in literature. This is because this is the point of maximum curvature of the spine and if you imagine pushing a twig from either end, it will snap at its point of maximum curvature. So the fact that the Leatt Brace's strut ends in this region has nothing to do with these fractures. They have always been around and have not increased or decreased since the advent of the brace. Another thing is that the strut was designed to fracture away at 300N of force, this is 30x lower than the 9000N limit for back protectors as per EN regulations..so I think that the strut is safe in terms of causing penetrative injury to the spine. Basically the strut only needs to be there long enough to stabilize the brace during a crash where the head goes into hyperextension (bending backwards). As soon as the dangerous forces in the neck are reduced, the strut has done its job and will give way (at 300N of force..very low).

With regards to collecting real-world data: Leatt does do this in conjunction with the UCI, WMI, MSA, AMA, and obviously riders provide data via Leatt's online injury assessment database. Over time Leatt will be able to publish broad statistics regarding the benefits of the brace over a wide population. This obviously does take time (and effort from many different parties) ..but promising results have been observed. I think a good idea will be a 10 year assessment. This will give a good broad spectrum analysis of where Leatt's product is at in terms of benefit to the riders out there. Watch this space.

I think Leatt really has a passion for good research/testing/simulation into their products. I only ever see Leatt present (and presenting at) at big conferences held over the world, including the MX Safety Summit organised by Mayo Clinic and Asterisk Medical Group as well as international spinal chord injury prevention conferences and the like. This should tell you something right?

Cornel de Jongh
Biomedical Engineer
Cornel,

Just a few quick questions to your informative comments.

Is the 300N breaking force applied at the tip of the thoracic piece, at 90 deg? Leatt has previously quoted it at 45psi.

The 9000N limit for back protectors, is that also applied at the T5-T8 part of the back? If that is the limit for back braces what is the actual limit for the thoracic spine, it must be well below 9000N due to safety factors?

If the strut is against the spine up till T5 then it will be increasing the stiffness of the spine up to that point (ie above that point). So using your twig example if you try bend the twig but now you hold in the middle and one end where will it break and where will the maximum curvature be. Surely not in the middle anymore!!!.

Your website says you do comparative testing. Why can the company not share this information. The Leatt should surely be the best in these tests?
sbarrington314 8/25/2011 7:00pm
8/25/2011 7:00pm
Berry wrote:
I just put a brace on pushed my head backwards as far as it would go and the base of the strut dug into my spine...
I just put a brace on pushed my head backwards as far as it would go and the base of the strut dug into my spine. Imagine doing that at full force of a crash. I used the brace that was worn during the accident that caused the fracture and the strut is as solid as a rock.
CamP wrote:
That's why I asked if you saw how they hit the ground or had video. If they had hyperflexion, like I did when I broke T6...
That's why I asked if you saw how they hit the ground or had video. If they had hyperflexion, like I did when I broke T6, then the rear stabilizer never comes into play. Without a close eye witness, or better yet video, it's almost impossible to say what exactly happened during their crashes.
i biomedical engineer should be able to tell this from medical records.


"Because of the energy required to cause these spinal fractures, patients often have additional injuries that require treatment. The spinal cord may be injured, depending on the severity of the spinal fracture."

interesting that i had no additional injuries. just broken vertebrae right where the brace ends.

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CamP
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CamP 8/25/2011 7:16pm
8/25/2011 7:16pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
i biomedical engineer should be able to tell this from medical records. "Because of the energy required to cause these spinal fractures, patients often have additional...
i biomedical engineer should be able to tell this from medical records.


"Because of the energy required to cause these spinal fractures, patients often have additional injuries that require treatment. The spinal cord may be injured, depending on the severity of the spinal fracture."

interesting that i had no additional injuries. just broken vertebrae right where the brace ends.
Has an orthopedic surgeon told you that your break was due to hyperextension?
sbarrington314 8/25/2011 7:23pm
8/25/2011 7:23pm
CamP wrote:
Has an orthopedic surgeon told you that your break was due to hyperextension?
compression per medical records. i couldnt tell you a word that he told me before or after surgery. i later have asked the surgeon and dr. their thoughts on the brace, and neither wanted to say their opinion. they kind of left me in the dark about alot of things.
but my spinous processes were sheared off. and per CT scans the spine looks pushed in.
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CamP 8/25/2011 7:35pm
8/25/2011 7:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2011 7:54pm
CamP wrote:
Has an orthopedic surgeon told you that your break was due to hyperextension?
sbarrington314 wrote:
compression per medical records. i couldnt tell you a word that he told me before or after surgery. i later have asked the surgeon and dr...
compression per medical records. i couldnt tell you a word that he told me before or after surgery. i later have asked the surgeon and dr. their thoughts on the brace, and neither wanted to say their opinion. they kind of left me in the dark about alot of things.
but my spinous processes were sheared off. and per CT scans the spine looks pushed in.
My T6 compression fracture was due to head down hyperflexion and that was also my only injury. When you hit head down, it straightens the cervical spine and the compression forces goes straight into the upper thoracic. That's why you hit heads up in football and Hockey players are always instructed to hit head up if they ever find themselves sliding head first into the wall. Based on your injury, I'd venture to guess that you actually impacted the ground head down hyperflexion and that is what broke your T4/5, and that's why the stabilizer was left intact and not broken off. Read this: http://www.heads-upstabilizer.com/spinal_injuries_in_hockey.html

The people that say you should tuck your head and roll in a head first crash, just don't understand this.
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CamP 8/25/2011 7:37pm
8/25/2011 7:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2011 7:38pm
dupe
sbarrington314 8/25/2011 8:33pm
8/25/2011 8:33pm
CamP wrote:
My T6 compression fracture was due to head down hyperflexion and that was also my only injury. When you hit head down, it straightens the cervical...
My T6 compression fracture was due to head down hyperflexion and that was also my only injury. When you hit head down, it straightens the cervical spine and the compression forces goes straight into the upper thoracic. That's why you hit heads up in football and Hockey players are always instructed to hit head up if they ever find themselves sliding head first into the wall. Based on your injury, I'd venture to guess that you actually impacted the ground head down hyperflexion and that is what broke your T4/5, and that's why the stabilizer was left intact and not broken off. Read this: http://www.heads-upstabilizer.com/spinal_injuries_in_hockey.html

The people that say you should tuck your head and roll in a head first crash, just don't understand this.
so how do you explain my spinous processes being sheared off like something smashed down on them?
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motoplook 8/25/2011 8:45pm
8/25/2011 8:45pm
corneldejongh wrote:
Hi mjskier and others Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace. Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a...
Hi mjskier and others

Remember that are no real trade-offs with wearing the brace.

Firstly, a collar bone fracture is 50 times more likely than a cervical (neck) fracture. Just about all Moto riders I know have fractured a collar bone at least once. An interesting thought to consider: How often do you see a collar bone fractured inwards (in other words into the shoulder? If this was the case in every fractured collar bone with the use of the brace, I would start to think that the brace might have something to do with it. But, as per usual (as without the brace) throughout all the years, the collar bone fractures outwards..so how could the brace have done this. (only by pulling the collar bone upwards and out of the skin..impossible me thinks :-))

The mid thoracic spine (T5-T8) is the most commonly injured area of the back (actually of the whole spinal unit). This is well documented in literature. This is because this is the point of maximum curvature of the spine and if you imagine pushing a twig from either end, it will snap at its point of maximum curvature. So the fact that the Leatt Brace's strut ends in this region has nothing to do with these fractures. They have always been around and have not increased or decreased since the advent of the brace. Another thing is that the strut was designed to fracture away at 300N of force, this is 30x lower than the 9000N limit for back protectors as per EN regulations..so I think that the strut is safe in terms of causing penetrative injury to the spine. Basically the strut only needs to be there long enough to stabilize the brace during a crash where the head goes into hyperextension (bending backwards). As soon as the dangerous forces in the neck are reduced, the strut has done its job and will give way (at 300N of force..very low).

With regards to collecting real-world data: Leatt does do this in conjunction with the UCI, WMI, MSA, AMA, and obviously riders provide data via Leatt's online injury assessment database. Over time Leatt will be able to publish broad statistics regarding the benefits of the brace over a wide population. This obviously does take time (and effort from many different parties) ..but promising results have been observed. I think a good idea will be a 10 year assessment. This will give a good broad spectrum analysis of where Leatt's product is at in terms of benefit to the riders out there. Watch this space.

I think Leatt really has a passion for good research/testing/simulation into their products. I only ever see Leatt present (and presenting at) at big conferences held over the world, including the MX Safety Summit organised by Mayo Clinic and Asterisk Medical Group as well as international spinal chord injury prevention conferences and the like. This should tell you something right?

Cornel de Jongh
Biomedical Engineer
HNR Engineer wrote:
Cornel, Just a few quick questions to your informative comments. Is the 300N breaking force applied at the tip of the thoracic piece, at 90 deg...
Cornel,

Just a few quick questions to your informative comments.

Is the 300N breaking force applied at the tip of the thoracic piece, at 90 deg? Leatt has previously quoted it at 45psi.

The 9000N limit for back protectors, is that also applied at the T5-T8 part of the back? If that is the limit for back braces what is the actual limit for the thoracic spine, it must be well below 9000N due to safety factors?

If the strut is against the spine up till T5 then it will be increasing the stiffness of the spine up to that point (ie above that point). So using your twig example if you try bend the twig but now you hold in the middle and one end where will it break and where will the maximum curvature be. Surely not in the middle anymore!!!.

Your website says you do comparative testing. Why can the company not share this information. The Leatt should surely be the best in these tests?
Finally! Someone who knows what he's talking about.
CamP
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CamP 8/25/2011 9:05pm
8/25/2011 9:05pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
so how do you explain my spinous processes being sheared off like something smashed down on them?
They probably struck other structures as T4 and T5 fractured.
drmarkr
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drmarkr 8/25/2011 10:40pm
8/25/2011 10:40pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
so how do you explain my spinous processes being sheared off like something smashed down on them?
CamP wrote:
They probably struck other structures as T4 and T5 fractured.
Or.....they were held in place by ligamentous and muscular attachments, and the severe flexion sheared them off.....all this assuming your mechanism of injury was hyperflexion.

Did the surgeons tell you anything about what they believed the mechanism of injury to be, i.e. flex vs extension??
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CamP 8/25/2011 11:05pm
8/25/2011 11:05pm
drmarkr wrote:
Or.....they were held in place by ligamentous and muscular attachments, and the severe flexion sheared them off.....all this assuming your mechanism of injury was hyperflexion. Did...
Or.....they were held in place by ligamentous and muscular attachments, and the severe flexion sheared them off.....all this assuming your mechanism of injury was hyperflexion.

Did the surgeons tell you anything about what they believed the mechanism of injury to be, i.e. flex vs extension??
Mark, what are your thoughts on this article. Fracture Thoracic Spine

"Compression fractures (also termed wedge fractures) are the most common type of thoracic spine fracture. They occur when the spine is bent forward (forward flexion) or sideways (lateral flexion) at the moment of trauma, causing the front (anterior) or side (lateral) region of the vertebra, respectively, to be compressed. Compression fractures are common because of the natural curve in the thoracic spine."

Would you conclude from the text that if most compression fractures are caused by hyperflexion, that the rear stabilizer would most likely not be involved if someone sustained a compression fracture while wearing the brace?
drmarkr
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drmarkr 8/25/2011 11:20pm
8/25/2011 11:20pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2011 11:23pm
Well, if you have compression fx's WITH posterior process fx's like those in the diagram, then were almost certainly talking about a hyperflexion mechanism.

Isolated fracture of the posterior processes is never going to harm the cord.....you would have to completely collapse the posteror arch of the vertebral body in order to either partially or completely sever the cord. Could the strut snap off the posterior processes before snapping itself? I think that's possible. Could the strut collapse the posterior arch and then damage the cord?? I think this is much less likely. This just takes a great deal more force, and I suspect Leatt and their team have some decent data on this.

But the mechanism we're talking about in my second paragraph is hyperEXTENSION, not flexion, which of course is what would have to be occuring for the strut to be a factor.

A question to the posters on here that have had T spine fx's with the brace....Were your fractures isolated posterior process breaks, or did you fully collapse the arch of the vetebral body? (assuming you know the answer to this).

I think all of us that have had significant crashes while wearing the brace have an obligation to go to the Leatt website and share our info with them. I have not done this for my AF 500 fiasco, but will attempt to do so now that I've been made aware such a registry exists.....
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ocscottie 8/25/2011 11:32pm
8/25/2011 11:32pm
Hey Mark, have you ever seen this pic of Ricky James xray? Dude it is almost creepy how identical it is to what mine looked like, but i am a little higher (t4-5, he is 7)

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drmarkr 8/25/2011 11:48pm
8/25/2011 11:48pm
Scottie, yes I'm pretty sure I'd seen that a few years ago. Severe hyperflexion injury. That is not a decent view to show the posterior processes, but one looks to be popped off and more may be as well.....point being that you can have posterior process fx's with hyperflexion injuries.

Do you have pics of yours pre-operatively?

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