New Honda 250cc team in MX2?

dan22
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Edited Date/Time 5/24/2023 1:52pm

I was listening to the MXVICE podcast Episode #126 and James Burfield mentions that Honda are looking into their MX2 setup in GPs, and will actively look for teams that want to use the CRF250. Just wondering, what teams you reckon would switch to Honda? or could Standing Construct do a 250 program alongside the 450cc?

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wsc96
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5/24/2023 2:35pm

No idea but they really should do something.

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roninho
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5/24/2023 3:38pm

 WZ doesnt have factory support i think? Seems like a strong setup that could produce results with factory support

dan22
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5/25/2023 5:47pm

hope so! they really need some more crf250 reps at the front especially when you see the production version is pretty damn good stateside, with the right rider and setup 

tek14
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5/26/2023 12:32am

Ship to cycle Honda running all ready but no factory support. 

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The Shop

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5/26/2023 8:47am

JM Honda. They have the knowledge and has proven they can run a Factory 250 team. 

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dan22
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5/26/2023 4:02pm

JM Honda would be good i agree. But couldnt they just bring back in the 114 team? i felt they were doing a good job with Ruben before they pulled the plug. Yes they are in WSX but i felt they were building up to be a strong 250 team prior to that...

Renner153
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5/26/2023 4:07pm

Get hitachi back in the mix. Roger Would jump at getting factory support like that i bet. 

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MXMattii
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5/27/2023 5:10pm

I think last year or maybe two years ago (when everyone saw that the 114 team didn't worked out), I talked to two people high on the Honda ladder why they didn't do an in house HRC Honda MX2 team or at least a Full Works Supported European Honda MX2 Team (long name to say Honda Europe pays). One said that he would love nothing more than start building a MX2 team, but that Honda Europe saw in the sales that the Lawrence Brothers effect worked also perfectly in Europe on the 250cc sale and this combined with Tim Gajser they were not to be persuaded by anything or anyone to push money into a European 250 and/or WC MX2 team.

The other guy (corporate) said the same but in other words: He said something like "With all the racing being streamed and internet taking away a lot of borders it would be stupid to invest a lot in MX2 while we've already two heavy hitters in AMA 250 who are so well known here (meaning Europe) and in Australia. So we give Honda in every country some freedom to support the teams with money to race local championships and we've also a little budget to support those same teams if they have also European EMX riders. Also the global Honda company has the high contracts from Roczen, Sexton and Gajser and he went on with excuses why they didn't invest in youth.

But now they are a few months away from Tim Gajser, Hunter Lawrence & Jett Lawrence all being on 450cc bikes. As semi-marketeer I ask myself if it makes people a damn? When Jett wins on Honda do they care if it's a 250cc, 450cc or even a 432cc?! On the other hand the old saying goes: Win on Sunday and sell on Monday. If they want to create a winning team they should convince Tim Mathys from Standing Construct to take the job or you put it under the Gariboldi-awing (He wouldn't be against it if he gets enough budget to work with). Other options are like Renner already said the former Hitachi team, Dixon is without a doubt also open for a good offer and then you've a WMX champion in the package. Jacky Martens if he's still motivated to seek for talent all over the world. I'm spontaneous thinking about the VRT team who is doing a great job, SR Honda, WZ Racing, a promotion from the German KMP Racing Honda who's doing a lot with less money in ADAC.

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soyMotero
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5/27/2023 10:51pm
MXMattii wrote:
I think last year or maybe two years ago (when everyone saw that the 114 team didn't worked out), I talked to two people high on...

I think last year or maybe two years ago (when everyone saw that the 114 team didn't worked out), I talked to two people high on the Honda ladder why they didn't do an in house HRC Honda MX2 team or at least a Full Works Supported European Honda MX2 Team (long name to say Honda Europe pays). One said that he would love nothing more than start building a MX2 team, but that Honda Europe saw in the sales that the Lawrence Brothers effect worked also perfectly in Europe on the 250cc sale and this combined with Tim Gajser they were not to be persuaded by anything or anyone to push money into a European 250 and/or WC MX2 team.

The other guy (corporate) said the same but in other words: He said something like "With all the racing being streamed and internet taking away a lot of borders it would be stupid to invest a lot in MX2 while we've already two heavy hitters in AMA 250 who are so well known here (meaning Europe) and in Australia. So we give Honda in every country some freedom to support the teams with money to race local championships and we've also a little budget to support those same teams if they have also European EMX riders. Also the global Honda company has the high contracts from Roczen, Sexton and Gajser and he went on with excuses why they didn't invest in youth.

But now they are a few months away from Tim Gajser, Hunter Lawrence & Jett Lawrence all being on 450cc bikes. As semi-marketeer I ask myself if it makes people a damn? When Jett wins on Honda do they care if it's a 250cc, 450cc or even a 432cc?! On the other hand the old saying goes: Win on Sunday and sell on Monday. If they want to create a winning team they should convince Tim Mathys from Standing Construct to take the job or you put it under the Gariboldi-awing (He wouldn't be against it if he gets enough budget to work with). Other options are like Renner already said the former Hitachi team, Dixon is without a doubt also open for a good offer and then you've a WMX champion in the package. Jacky Martens if he's still motivated to seek for talent all over the world. I'm spontaneous thinking about the VRT team who is doing a great job, SR Honda, WZ Racing, a promotion from the German KMP Racing Honda who's doing a lot with less money in ADAC.

If they continue to have excuses for not investing in youth, they will not return to the success they have now with Gajser, Sexton and the Lawrence brothers.

When they first signed Gajser, he was a 16 year old with no MX2 podiums, not even top 5 results, he was scraped by KTM despite having a very succesful amaterur career (65,85 and 125 European Champion). Tim is now the most succesful Honda rider in the history of MXGP.

Sexton was signed as an amateur when he was what, 15 years old? He started racing professionally for Geico Honda, won two 250 titles, moved up to 450 with HRC Honda and has given Honda its first supercross title in 20 years.

And the Lawrence brothers, both were signed by Honda when they were very young (After Suzuki pulled out of the MXGP series), Jett went to the AMA Amateur ranks and Hunter to the Pro Ranks in America. Right now both Jett and Hunter are leading the 450 and 250 class in Motocross  Respectively.

They key to Honda's success right now is that they invested in the youth, they tried to have success signing heavy hitters (Roczen, and they tried to sign Herlings in 2014) but it didn't work.

Giacomo Gariboldi has a good eye for Talent (Tim and Rubén, who He had a reputation in the MXGP paddock, as he was not considered a good rider, and now he is third in the championship and with a GP win), the MX2 program should run it in house.

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roninho
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5/28/2023 12:26am
dan22 wrote:
JM Honda would be good i agree. But couldnt they just bring back in the 114 team? i felt they were doing a good job with...

JM Honda would be good i agree. But couldnt they just bring back in the 114 team? i felt they were doing a good job with Ruben before they pulled the plug. Yes they are in WSX but i felt they were building up to be a strong 250 team prior to that...

I always had the feeling 114 didnt have much budget apart from Honda. A team like Martens makes imo much more sense since they have an established group of sponsors. 

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MXMattii
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5/28/2023 5:47am
roninho wrote:
I always had the feeling 114 didnt have much budget apart from Honda. A team like Martens makes imo much more sense since they have an...

I always had the feeling 114 didnt have much budget apart from Honda. A team like Martens makes imo much more sense since they have an established group of sponsors. 

It was the other way around. Gariboldi gave Lancelot all sponsors who clashed with the HRC Honda sponsors, combined with heavy bihr support Honda had a very cheap mx2 team... But the rider selection wasn't bad, but if you see how bad Hunter Lawrence his results were on that bike... I guess Honda didn't put too much effort in R&D and Lancelot hadn't the money to do it by her self.

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dan22
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5/28/2023 7:18pm
MXMattii wrote:
I think last year or maybe two years ago (when everyone saw that the 114 team didn't worked out), I talked to two people high on...

I think last year or maybe two years ago (when everyone saw that the 114 team didn't worked out), I talked to two people high on the Honda ladder why they didn't do an in house HRC Honda MX2 team or at least a Full Works Supported European Honda MX2 Team (long name to say Honda Europe pays). One said that he would love nothing more than start building a MX2 team, but that Honda Europe saw in the sales that the Lawrence Brothers effect worked also perfectly in Europe on the 250cc sale and this combined with Tim Gajser they were not to be persuaded by anything or anyone to push money into a European 250 and/or WC MX2 team.

The other guy (corporate) said the same but in other words: He said something like "With all the racing being streamed and internet taking away a lot of borders it would be stupid to invest a lot in MX2 while we've already two heavy hitters in AMA 250 who are so well known here (meaning Europe) and in Australia. So we give Honda in every country some freedom to support the teams with money to race local championships and we've also a little budget to support those same teams if they have also European EMX riders. Also the global Honda company has the high contracts from Roczen, Sexton and Gajser and he went on with excuses why they didn't invest in youth.

But now they are a few months away from Tim Gajser, Hunter Lawrence & Jett Lawrence all being on 450cc bikes. As semi-marketeer I ask myself if it makes people a damn? When Jett wins on Honda do they care if it's a 250cc, 450cc or even a 432cc?! On the other hand the old saying goes: Win on Sunday and sell on Monday. If they want to create a winning team they should convince Tim Mathys from Standing Construct to take the job or you put it under the Gariboldi-awing (He wouldn't be against it if he gets enough budget to work with). Other options are like Renner already said the former Hitachi team, Dixon is without a doubt also open for a good offer and then you've a WMX champion in the package. Jacky Martens if he's still motivated to seek for talent all over the world. I'm spontaneous thinking about the VRT team who is doing a great job, SR Honda, WZ Racing, a promotion from the German KMP Racing Honda who's doing a lot with less money in ADAC.

soyMotero wrote:
If they continue to have excuses for not investing in youth, they will not return to the success they have now with Gajser, Sexton and the...

If they continue to have excuses for not investing in youth, they will not return to the success they have now with Gajser, Sexton and the Lawrence brothers.

When they first signed Gajser, he was a 16 year old with no MX2 podiums, not even top 5 results, he was scraped by KTM despite having a very succesful amaterur career (65,85 and 125 European Champion). Tim is now the most succesful Honda rider in the history of MXGP.

Sexton was signed as an amateur when he was what, 15 years old? He started racing professionally for Geico Honda, won two 250 titles, moved up to 450 with HRC Honda and has given Honda its first supercross title in 20 years.

And the Lawrence brothers, both were signed by Honda when they were very young (After Suzuki pulled out of the MXGP series), Jett went to the AMA Amateur ranks and Hunter to the Pro Ranks in America. Right now both Jett and Hunter are leading the 450 and 250 class in Motocross  Respectively.

They key to Honda's success right now is that they invested in the youth, they tried to have success signing heavy hitters (Roczen, and they tried to sign Herlings in 2014) but it didn't work.

Giacomo Gariboldi has a good eye for Talent (Tim and Rubén, who He had a reputation in the MXGP paddock, as he was not considered a good rider, and now he is third in the championship and with a GP win), the MX2 program should run it in house.

yep i agree Giacomo has a fantastic eye for talent. Picking Tim and Ruben has paid dividends - if they cant do that then id love for Standing Construct to be the factory MX2

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