Terrorist Lawyer

jonjon714
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Edited Date/Time 1/10/2012 10:34am
Court will be a circus.




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flarider
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11/24/2009 11:27am
By law, someone has to represent them, either by choice or appointment, and in either case, the attorney is required to represent the client to the best of his or her ability or risk disbarment.

As for this interview, what do you think the lawyer is going to say? He is not going to say anything negative towards his client, he can't.
O'Reilly's badgering shows either how little he understands about law and a legal defense or it's all showmanship for his viewers who understand little about the law and a legal defense.

and for the record, that lawyer is a moron for going on that show or any show at all.
MX479Guy
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11/24/2009 11:30am
Maybe the lawyer is trying to do interviews etc so he can be removed from the case?
bana0401
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11/24/2009 11:33am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2009 11:35am
flarider wrote:
By law, someone has to represent them, either by choice or appointment, and in either case, the attorney is required to represent the client to the...
By law, someone has to represent them, either by choice or appointment, and in either case, the attorney is required to represent the client to the best of his or her ability or risk disbarment.

As for this interview, what do you think the lawyer is going to say? He is not going to say anything negative towards his client, he can't.
O'Reilly's badgering shows either how little he understands about law and a legal defense or it's all showmanship for his viewers who understand little about the law and a legal defense.

and for the record, that lawyer is a moron for going on that show or any show at all.
I thought those were rights granted to citizens, oh yea thats right Obama thought it would be a good idea to give terrorists more rights.
croom mx
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11/24/2009 11:33am
This should have been handled in a Military Court. Now if a prisoner is captured in the middle of a Battle is he going to say you didnt read me my Miranda Rights?

The Shop

TeamGreen
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11/24/2009 11:38am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:06pm
I think the original argument is the most important talking point:

Enemy Combatants v. "World Citizen": What are these guys and How do we handle them?

No, I'm not looking for a throwdown; but, there is a legitimate argument to be had and it needs to be based on our laws and our interpretation of "Who" is "Entitled" to “What" based on our laws.

For instance: I'm of the opinion that certain "inalienable rights" are held for the privilege of citizens of the U.S. Almost exclusively. While "flarider" has argued a more 'Global-Approach' that is more in-line with the Presidents.

It would be nice to see an opinion from the SCOTUS that addresses this more directly than what we've heard thus far.
Larry
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11/24/2009 11:40am
flarider wrote:
By law, someone has to represent them, either by choice or appointment, and in either case, the attorney is required to represent the client to the...
By law, someone has to represent them, either by choice or appointment, and in either case, the attorney is required to represent the client to the best of his or her ability or risk disbarment.

As for this interview, what do you think the lawyer is going to say? He is not going to say anything negative towards his client, he can't.
O'Reilly's badgering shows either how little he understands about law and a legal defense or it's all showmanship for his viewers who understand little about the law and a legal defense.

and for the record, that lawyer is a moron for going on that show or any show at all.
bana0401 wrote:
I thought those were rights granted to citizens, oh yea thats right Obama thought it would be a good idea to give terrorists more rights.
I thought Iraqis became citizens when we took over their country?
kcadrenalin
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11/24/2009 11:42am
and to think that all of this mess could have been solved with a 60 cent bullet......
TeamGreen
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11/24/2009 11:45am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:06pm
and to think that all of this mess could have been solved with a 60 cent bullet......
I'm of the opinion that it could have been handled by a few JAGs at Gitmo...YEARS AGO!

Legally. Correctly. Justly.

Look, I simply give credit where it's due.

JAGs & the D.O.D. have the ability to be FAIR & JUST. Call me a fool.

That's what I believe.
croom mx
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11/24/2009 11:47am
There is no Global approach because all Nations have their own laws and traditions.
TeamGreen
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11/24/2009 11:49am
croom mx wrote:
There is no Global approach because all Nations have their own laws and traditions.
Actually, there was a post by "fla" quoting a U.N. Rule/Protocol for handling such situations should the host Nation choose to do so.

That's the caveat, isn't it?
Larry
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11/24/2009 11:50am
Why would the military be responsible for trying crimes that do not involve the military?
flarider
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11/24/2009 11:52am
croom mx wrote:
This should have been handled in a Military Court. Now if a prisoner is captured in the middle of a Battle is he going to say...
This should have been handled in a Military Court. Now if a prisoner is captured in the middle of a Battle is he going to say you didnt read me my Miranda Rights?
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights
Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights

and even in a military court, the defendant has the right to representation

Stop thinking and talking on emotion and look at law
croom mx
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11/24/2009 11:54am
Larry wrote:
Why would the military be responsible for trying crimes that do not involve the military?
It is a Military Operation , I didnt see the NYPD capture these terrorist?
brainbasket
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11/24/2009 11:54am
Larry wrote:
Why would the military be responsible for trying crimes that do not involve the military?
If North Korea dropped a bomb on Fayetteville - Would it be a crime or an act of war?
bana0401
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11/24/2009 11:54am
flarider wrote:
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights and even in a military court, the...
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights
Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights

and even in a military court, the defendant has the right to representation

Stop thinking and talking on emotion and look at law
McVeigh and Kacynski were citizens big difference.
11/24/2009 11:57am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:07pm
McVeigh and Kaczynski were both US CITIZENS...

You don't see the difference?

Edit: Bana0401 beat me to it
croom mx
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11/24/2009 11:57am
croom mx wrote:
This should have been handled in a Military Court. Now if a prisoner is captured in the middle of a Battle is he going to say...
This should have been handled in a Military Court. Now if a prisoner is captured in the middle of a Battle is he going to say you didnt read me my Miranda Rights?
flarider wrote:
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights and even in a military court, the...
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights
Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights

and even in a military court, the defendant has the right to representation

Stop thinking and talking on emotion and look at law
You are right about Mcveigh. He was a Criminal defendant captured by Highway Patrol.
flarider
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11/24/2009 12:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:07pm
McVeigh and Kaczynski were both US CITIZENS...

You don't see the difference?

Edit: Bana0401 beat me to it
Look at the law and see about aliens, legal or illegal, and their legal rights


I will admit the whole thing is a fucked up mess, and IMO, there is no "right or wrong" answer....both solutions are "wrong"


KSM engaged in his act against citizens, as a civilian, not as part of a military or country's service.

So why would you put him in a military court? There was no war at the time and no military involvement.

He is a civilian.


You put him in a civilian court, we now run into the problems of miranda, speedy trial, representation, disclosure and then coerced admissions via torture.


Both are fucked up situations in this instance.

It's a mess and a mess that should have been thought out better from the beginning rather than "we'll just detain them forever"
Larry
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11/24/2009 12:05pm
Larry wrote:
Why would the military be responsible for trying crimes that do not involve the military?
croom mx wrote:
It is a Military Operation , I didnt see the NYPD capture these terrorist?

The crime was not committed against the military.
.When the Coast guard hauls in drug runners they are not prosecuted in a military court.
Larry
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11/24/2009 12:07pm
Larry wrote:
Why would the military be responsible for trying crimes that do not involve the military?
If North Korea dropped a bomb on Fayetteville - Would it be a crime or an act of war?
Even a simple mind like you knows that answer.
We were not attacked by a country on 9/11
croom mx
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11/24/2009 12:12pm
Larry wrote:
Why would the military be responsible for trying crimes that do not involve the military?
If North Korea dropped a bomb on Fayetteville - Would it be a crime or an act of war?
Larry wrote:
Even a simple mind like you knows that answer.
We were not attacked by a country on 9/11
That's right Larry, we were not attacked by another country. But these Terrorist are considered Enemy Combatants. And they were captured by the Military with support from CIA.
TeamGreen
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11/24/2009 12:17pm
McVeigh and Kaczynski were both US CITIZENS...

You don't see the difference?

Edit: Bana0401 beat me to it
flarider wrote:
Look at the law and see about aliens, legal or illegal, and their legal rights I will admit the whole thing is a fucked up mess...
Look at the law and see about aliens, legal or illegal, and their legal rights


I will admit the whole thing is a fucked up mess, and IMO, there is no "right or wrong" answer....both solutions are "wrong"


KSM engaged in his act against citizens, as a civilian, not as part of a military or country's service.

So why would you put him in a military court? There was no war at the time and no military involvement.

He is a civilian.


You put him in a civilian court, we now run into the problems of miranda, speedy trial, representation, disclosure and then coerced admissions via torture.


Both are fucked up situations in this instance.

It's a mess and a mess that should have been thought out better from the beginning rather than "we'll just detain them forever"
Bingo.

Then there's the argument of whether or not they were "Endorsed" by Afghanistan via the DeFacto leadership of that country, at that time. A legitimate legal argument.

Or...

Since they were caught, as you stated, via "Military Action"...there's that argument.

Still...shoulda been dealt with at Gitmo...a LONG-TIME-AGO.
TeamGreen
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11/24/2009 12:19pm
Larry wrote:
Why would the military be responsible for trying crimes that do not involve the military?
If North Korea dropped a bomb on Fayetteville - Would it be a crime or an act of war?
Larry wrote:
Even a simple mind like you knows that answer.
We were not attacked by a country on 9/11
Actually, I think said "simpleton' has nailed it...no?

Larry, dude, you're on the loooooosin' end of that argument.
Larry
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11/24/2009 12:26pm
If North Korea dropped a bomb on Fayetteville - Would it be a crime or an act of war?
Larry wrote:
Even a simple mind like you knows that answer.
We were not attacked by a country on 9/11
TeamGreen wrote:
Actually, I think said "simpleton' has nailed it...no?

Larry, dude, you're on the loooooosin' end of that argument.
Are you afraid that our legal system cannot hold up under the strain?
If someone commits a crime in my neighborhood I want them prosecuted in my neighborhood.
And there is no comparison between 9/11 and an act of war.
Thats where you neo's went wrong.
TeamGreen
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11/24/2009 12:31pm
Larry wrote:
Even a simple mind like you knows that answer.
We were not attacked by a country on 9/11
TeamGreen wrote:
Actually, I think said "simpleton' has nailed it...no?

Larry, dude, you're on the loooooosin' end of that argument.
Larry wrote:
Are you afraid that our legal system cannot hold up under the strain? If someone commits a crime in my neighborhood I want them prosecuted in...
Are you afraid that our legal system cannot hold up under the strain?
If someone commits a crime in my neighborhood I want them prosecuted in my neighborhood.
And there is no comparison between 9/11 and an act of war.
Thats where you neo's went wrong.
Hey, I understand what you're saying; however, take a look at what's been noted in here.

It's all valid and it's all been/currently is still...Being argued amongst the belt-way types and their ilk.

Was Al Qeada running Afghanistan at the time?

Is there an Afghan-connection? Maybe...dunno?

This isn't Crystal Clear by any means.

Furthermore: Do they deserve all the "Protections" due a U.S. Citizen? Or should this be handled via Tribunal since the Military caught them and has them in Custody?
TeamGreen
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11/24/2009 12:33pm
I'm not a "Neo", btw. And, I didn't get to participate in any of the decision-making, either.
brent26wood
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11/24/2009 12:37pm
flarider wrote:
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights and even in a military court, the...
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights
Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights

and even in a military court, the defendant has the right to representation

Stop thinking and talking on emotion and look at law
Those were citizens of the US that performed a crime in the US and were captured in the US. See a common theme here. Apples and Oranges....
zookrider62!
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11/24/2009 12:41pm
Im trying to figure out what O'reilly wanted the guy to say?
flarider
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11/24/2009 1:00pm
flarider wrote:
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights and even in a military court, the...
McVeigh was a terrorist and he was afforded legal rights
Kaczynski was a terrorist and he got legal rights

and even in a military court, the defendant has the right to representation

Stop thinking and talking on emotion and look at law
Those were citizens of the US that performed a crime in the US and were captured in the US. See a common theme here. Apples and...
Those were citizens of the US that performed a crime in the US and were captured in the US. See a common theme here. Apples and Oranges....
No, you are missing the point(s)

#1, there is no "right" answer because both options have levels of wrong application

#2, Aliens who commit crimes are still afforded the same legal rights as citizens, look it up.

#3, There was no war at the time of the crime and no military involvement.

#4, The suspect is not a member of any army or in the service of any country. He (and his group) acted independently.

#5, Non-military citizens are not put on trial in military tribunals.

#6, The crime took place on US soil. Where or by whom a suspect is captured is irrelevant, otherwise all drug runners and smugglers caught by the USCG would be put on trial in military courts. The location of the act determines jurisdiction, not where the suspect is captured or by whom.
flarider
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11/24/2009 1:05pm
Im trying to figure out what O'reilly wanted the guy to say?
Something the prosecution can use against his clients...some sound bite

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, their own lawyer said......."

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