SOPA/PIPA

joemamma
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 10:42am
Edit: Well, looks like I didn't look far enough back for an existing thread on the subject. Links are still good though.

If you haven't already, please take a few minutes to read about the bill, why its a piece of garbage, and then possibly do something about it (sign Google's petition, mail/call your congressman, share on facebook, etc...).

Google - End Piracy, Not Liberty
Another site for some info on what you can do

"See, I don't know why everyone is worrying about this whole SOPA thing. China has a censored internet, and you never hear about them complaining......"
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flarider
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1/18/2012 8:37am
So why can't I protect my intellectual property online?
MotoChief
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1/18/2012 8:38am
flarider wrote:
So why can't I protect my intellectual property online?
Because it will kill the internet?
flarider
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1/18/2012 8:42am
So, I have to allow people to steal from me millions of times a day and just "suck it up," though it is mine and I am losing millions of dollars?

The Shop

txmxer
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1/18/2012 9:14am
flarider wrote:
So, I have to allow people to steal from me millions of times a day and just "suck it up," though it is mine and I...
So, I have to allow people to steal from me millions of times a day and just "suck it up," though it is mine and I am losing millions of dollars?
I am losing millions of dollars?

prove it.
txmxer
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1/18/2012 9:29am
The CD/music industry has been crying about the "billions" of dollars they lost due to file sharing. The entire argument is based on the music shared--how many songs were transmitted x number of times.

They completely fail to take into account (intentionally choose to ignore) that most of that happened because it costs nothing. Nobody wanted to buy the shitty music that was being put out...but since it was free they got copies of it. And just like most albums that are purchased, only 1 in 10 songs were worth a shit.

Obviously there was some loss of sales, but the reality is that media was changing. Music was becoming canned and overproduced and people were losing interest, plus you had the video revolution. People were spending money on DVDs and other forms of entertainment. But the music industry chose to scapegoat the consumer because they suck giant hairy shit stained balls.

There needs to be a reasonable middle ground--but the bottom line is trampling on people's rights (be it consumers or producers) is a bad answer.
Racer92
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1/18/2012 9:31am
Is Lars Ulrich behind all this ?
joemamma
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1/18/2012 9:33am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2012 9:39am
flarider wrote:
So why can't I protect my intellectual property online?
That's not the issue. The issue is how they want to go about it. Having this bill passed would allow Big Content to shut down any site they feel like. A spam bot posts a link to infringing content in the comments of someone's blog post, Big Content now has the right to shut the site down. Big Content sees the Hall of Torrents, Vitalmx is shut down.

Instead of "Innocent until proven guilty," it's just "guilty."

Combating piracy is something that needs to be done, but this isn't the correct way to do it.
flarider
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1/18/2012 9:56am
flarider wrote:
So why can't I protect my intellectual property online?
joemamma wrote:
That's not the issue. The issue is how they want to go about it. Having this bill passed would allow Big Content to shut down any...
That's not the issue. The issue is how they want to go about it. Having this bill passed would allow Big Content to shut down any site they feel like. A spam bot posts a link to infringing content in the comments of someone's blog post, Big Content now has the right to shut the site down. Big Content sees the Hall of Torrents, Vitalmx is shut down.

Instead of "Innocent until proven guilty," it's just "guilty."

Combating piracy is something that needs to be done, but this isn't the correct way to do it.
I thought a court order was required to shut anything down?

If I write and sing a good song, and someone buys my CD, then puts a copy of that CD online and then there are millions of downloads, am I losing money or not?

How is that fair to me?

If I made and sold blueprints on how to improve your race bike's HP by 10% through building your own pipe, and someone scans and puts those blueprints online, and millions of people download and build their own pipes, how is that fair to me and my intellectual property?

I am not necessarily arguing, I am trying to understand the logic of people thinking they can take intellectual property and redistribute it at their own discretion, free of charge, resulting in my loss of earnings due their decision.
If you decide you don't like my business and burn it to the ground and I lose money, that is not legal.
If I don't like you selling puppies and I break in and release all the puppies, that's not legal.

Why is it legal to just give away my livelihood because you feel like it, regardless of the financial damages it may cause me?
Why can you intentionally damage my business, resulting in my financial losses without any culpability?
CR250Rider
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1/18/2012 9:58am
RIAA Vice President Responds To Internet Blackouts

Jonathan Lamy, RIAA's Senior Vice President of Communication, posted this tweet earlier today and has since deleted it. I don't know if “dick move” even begins to describe this.

jtomasik
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1/18/2012 10:05am
Tell your congressman you oppose SOPA/PIPA, if you do. Violation of those laws is not the business of the federal government. The only reason they're meddling in it is because money from the lobbies are pushing it through.
CR250Rider
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1/18/2012 10:07am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2012 10:15am



craig's list



tumblr
txmxer
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1/18/2012 10:08am
flarider wrote:
I thought a court order was required to shut anything down? If I write and sing a good song, and someone buys my CD, then puts...
I thought a court order was required to shut anything down?

If I write and sing a good song, and someone buys my CD, then puts a copy of that CD online and then there are millions of downloads, am I losing money or not?

How is that fair to me?

If I made and sold blueprints on how to improve your race bike's HP by 10% through building your own pipe, and someone scans and puts those blueprints online, and millions of people download and build their own pipes, how is that fair to me and my intellectual property?

I am not necessarily arguing, I am trying to understand the logic of people thinking they can take intellectual property and redistribute it at their own discretion, free of charge, resulting in my loss of earnings due their decision.
If you decide you don't like my business and burn it to the ground and I lose money, that is not legal.
If I don't like you selling puppies and I break in and release all the puppies, that's not legal.

Why is it legal to just give away my livelihood because you feel like it, regardless of the financial damages it may cause me?
Why can you intentionally damage my business, resulting in my financial losses without any culpability?
are you doing this on purpose or just to try and win an argument?

It's not right for someone to share your CD (it sucks btw), but your argument is that millions downloaded instead of millions buying it. Most of the people that downloaded probably would not have purchased it...so how much did you actually lose?

Never mind...you won't address the question...it's tangent time.
flarider
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1/18/2012 10:13am
flarider wrote:
I thought a court order was required to shut anything down? If I write and sing a good song, and someone buys my CD, then puts...
I thought a court order was required to shut anything down?

If I write and sing a good song, and someone buys my CD, then puts a copy of that CD online and then there are millions of downloads, am I losing money or not?

How is that fair to me?

If I made and sold blueprints on how to improve your race bike's HP by 10% through building your own pipe, and someone scans and puts those blueprints online, and millions of people download and build their own pipes, how is that fair to me and my intellectual property?

I am not necessarily arguing, I am trying to understand the logic of people thinking they can take intellectual property and redistribute it at their own discretion, free of charge, resulting in my loss of earnings due their decision.
If you decide you don't like my business and burn it to the ground and I lose money, that is not legal.
If I don't like you selling puppies and I break in and release all the puppies, that's not legal.

Why is it legal to just give away my livelihood because you feel like it, regardless of the financial damages it may cause me?
Why can you intentionally damage my business, resulting in my financial losses without any culpability?
txmxer wrote:
are you doing this on purpose or just to try and win an argument? It's not right for someone to share your CD (it sucks btw)...
are you doing this on purpose or just to try and win an argument?

It's not right for someone to share your CD (it sucks btw), but your argument is that millions downloaded instead of millions buying it. Most of the people that downloaded probably would not have purchased it...so how much did you actually lose?

Never mind...you won't address the question...it's tangent time.
No, I may not have sold millions, I don't know, but neither do you, but can we both agree that I more than likely lost money?

Is the basis of the argument solely on how much is lost, not on the fact that monies were lost in the first place?
txmxer
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1/18/2012 10:19am
flarider wrote:
No, I may not have sold millions, I don't know, but neither do you, but can we both agree that I more than likely lost money...
No, I may not have sold millions, I don't know, but neither do you, but can we both agree that I more than likely lost money?

Is the basis of the argument solely on how much is lost, not on the fact that monies were lost in the first place?
It's all about volume. You think they are going to create law to protect $10 worth of material? No, they claim the issue is BILLIONS of dollars of lost revenue. The number of zero's matter.

By proclaiming it to be this large number and by putting it on the lowest common denominator (the consuming public), they can get these draconian laws passed which functionally ties the hands of the consumer such that the cost of everything will go up--we'll be charged a fee for each time we listen to a song.

If the RIAA had it's way, the would not allow you to make a copy for personal use/backup of a CD that you purchased. Is that fair? If you wanted to listen to said CD on a different medium (say your iPod), you'd have to buy the music again. Is that fair?

That's what they want pushed through. The ability to gouge the consumer every second of the day.
CR250Rider
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1/18/2012 10:20am
flarider
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1/18/2012 10:29am
txmxer wrote:
It's all about volume. You think they are going to create law to protect $10 worth of material? No, they claim the issue is BILLIONS of...
It's all about volume. You think they are going to create law to protect $10 worth of material? No, they claim the issue is BILLIONS of dollars of lost revenue. The number of zero's matter.

By proclaiming it to be this large number and by putting it on the lowest common denominator (the consuming public), they can get these draconian laws passed which functionally ties the hands of the consumer such that the cost of everything will go up--we'll be charged a fee for each time we listen to a song.

If the RIAA had it's way, the would not allow you to make a copy for personal use/backup of a CD that you purchased. Is that fair? If you wanted to listen to said CD on a different medium (say your iPod), you'd have to buy the music again. Is that fair?

That's what they want pushed through. The ability to gouge the consumer every second of the day.
Even if one of my pipe building blueprints is copied and downloaded, resulting in my financial loss, how is that fair?

I look at CD's like a typical EULA, if I copy for my own use, that is fine. I believe music should be same. If I buy a CD and want to put those songs on my iPhone, I have paid for the songs and that should be legal.
But I bought the CD, so that is not what we're talking about.

This is about people downloading intellectual property without paying for it.
How is that fair or right to the creator or owner of that intellectual property?

That is my question
jtomasik
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1/18/2012 10:31am
flarider wrote:
I thought a court order was required to shut anything down? If I write and sing a good song, and someone buys my CD, then puts...
I thought a court order was required to shut anything down?

If I write and sing a good song, and someone buys my CD, then puts a copy of that CD online and then there are millions of downloads, am I losing money or not?

How is that fair to me?

If I made and sold blueprints on how to improve your race bike's HP by 10% through building your own pipe, and someone scans and puts those blueprints online, and millions of people download and build their own pipes, how is that fair to me and my intellectual property?

I am not necessarily arguing, I am trying to understand the logic of people thinking they can take intellectual property and redistribute it at their own discretion, free of charge, resulting in my loss of earnings due their decision.
If you decide you don't like my business and burn it to the ground and I lose money, that is not legal.
If I don't like you selling puppies and I break in and release all the puppies, that's not legal.

Why is it legal to just give away my livelihood because you feel like it, regardless of the financial damages it may cause me?
Why can you intentionally damage my business, resulting in my financial losses without any culpability?
The act gives the USDoJ a direct hand in the matter. The legal avenues already exist to protect against copyright infringement. All this will do is give big lobby money a direct connection to the government they own, so they can call the shots, circumventing the system.

If you don't know by now that the federal government acts in the best interest of big money, then you're just not getting it. Go take a look how top execs rotate in and out of government positions, all with the objective of biasing the laws in favor of their industries, just so they can make more money.

The federal government should not be fucking with this. It should be left in the hands of the regular court systems.
CR250Rider
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1/18/2012 10:31am
txmxer wrote:
It's all about volume. You think they are going to create law to protect $10 worth of material? No, they claim the issue is BILLIONS of...
It's all about volume. You think they are going to create law to protect $10 worth of material? No, they claim the issue is BILLIONS of dollars of lost revenue. The number of zero's matter.

By proclaiming it to be this large number and by putting it on the lowest common denominator (the consuming public), they can get these draconian laws passed which functionally ties the hands of the consumer such that the cost of everything will go up--we'll be charged a fee for each time we listen to a song.

If the RIAA had it's way, the would not allow you to make a copy for personal use/backup of a CD that you purchased. Is that fair? If you wanted to listen to said CD on a different medium (say your iPod), you'd have to buy the music again. Is that fair?

That's what they want pushed through. The ability to gouge the consumer every second of the day.
flarider wrote:
Even if one of my pipe building blueprints is copied and downloaded, resulting in my financial loss, how is that fair? I look at CD's like...
Even if one of my pipe building blueprints is copied and downloaded, resulting in my financial loss, how is that fair?

I look at CD's like a typical EULA, if I copy for my own use, that is fine. I believe music should be same. If I buy a CD and want to put those songs on my iPhone, I have paid for the songs and that should be legal.
But I bought the CD, so that is not what we're talking about.

This is about people downloading intellectual property without paying for it.
How is that fair or right to the creator or owner of that intellectual property?

That is my question
Don't play dumb

Piracy is obviously wrong, but this goes too far, as you know.
SteveS
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1/18/2012 10:32am
flarider wrote:
No, I may not have sold millions, I don't know, but neither do you, but can we both agree that I more than likely lost money...
No, I may not have sold millions, I don't know, but neither do you, but can we both agree that I more than likely lost money?

Is the basis of the argument solely on how much is lost, not on the fact that monies were lost in the first place?
txmxer wrote:
It's all about volume. You think they are going to create law to protect $10 worth of material? No, they claim the issue is BILLIONS of...
It's all about volume. You think they are going to create law to protect $10 worth of material? No, they claim the issue is BILLIONS of dollars of lost revenue. The number of zero's matter.

By proclaiming it to be this large number and by putting it on the lowest common denominator (the consuming public), they can get these draconian laws passed which functionally ties the hands of the consumer such that the cost of everything will go up--we'll be charged a fee for each time we listen to a song.

If the RIAA had it's way, the would not allow you to make a copy for personal use/backup of a CD that you purchased. Is that fair? If you wanted to listen to said CD on a different medium (say your iPod), you'd have to buy the music again. Is that fair?

That's what they want pushed through. The ability to gouge the consumer every second of the day.
All the millions that downloaded wouldn't have to have been actual purchasers. How about 50% of them? How about 25% of them? How about 10% of them? even hundreds of thousands of sales of a CD is a lot of money lost.

For that matter, it's pretty easy to look at sales trends before and after the internet piracy became big. You can see what sales were for top billed and promoted artists before, vs. the same kind of artists with the same promotions after. As everyone knows, the difference in sales and bottom line is stark.

You can try to make explanations until you are blue in the face about how the music was bad and that's why sales were down, but we also all know that you're lying when you do so. The internet file sharing has caused people to lose their propriety and sense of right and wrong. It's "all free all the time". Theft is no longer considered theft by music and movie stealers.
SteveS
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1/18/2012 10:34am
As to personal copies of music you have purchased, there has never been a problem with taking your LPs or CDs and making mix tapes, cassette copies, etc. Using an mp3 player doesn't change that one bit. You could always make copies for your own listening. It has always been illegal to make copies to give to someone else.
txmxer
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1/18/2012 10:48am
SteveS and Dave...why do you feel the need to try and attribute things to me that I did not say? Same goes for you Dave...why ask, "is it ok?"

This circle jerk of an effort at a discussion is stupid. I plainly and flatly said:

It's not right for someone to share your CD


And OBVIOUSLY a semi-intelligent monkey would understand that NOBODY here is arguing that piracy is good or ok. So, why continue to argue that point? Are you that simple minded? I don't think so. This is about certain laws that will infringe upon people's rights.

And to say, it's always been legal for fair use...the RIAA doesn't think so. And they'll keep plugging away to prevent it. Why do you think they issued videos and music with copy protection??? And breaking that protection is ILLEGAL. Why do you think they fought labeling the material that has copy protection on it? Just food for thought.
Moto East Mag
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1/18/2012 10:52am
It's clear to me that the old copyright models don't work anymore. Content producers need to find new ways to monetize the product. a different way A "unit sales" model may no longer apply to content that is easily reproducable.
flarider
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1/18/2012 11:01am
txmxer wrote:
SteveS and Dave...why do you feel the need to try and attribute things to me that I did not say? Same goes for you Dave...why ask...
SteveS and Dave...why do you feel the need to try and attribute things to me that I did not say? Same goes for you Dave...why ask, "is it ok?"

This circle jerk of an effort at a discussion is stupid. I plainly and flatly said:

It's not right for someone to share your CD


And OBVIOUSLY a semi-intelligent monkey would understand that NOBODY here is arguing that piracy is good or ok. So, why continue to argue that point? Are you that simple minded? I don't think so. This is about certain laws that will infringe upon people's rights.

And to say, it's always been legal for fair use...the RIAA doesn't think so. And they'll keep plugging away to prevent it. Why do you think they issued videos and music with copy protection??? And breaking that protection is ILLEGAL. Why do you think they fought labeling the material that has copy protection on it? Just food for thought.
You know, I have not insulted you once, but you have insulted me several times.

I asked a question about fairness and you do not like it being asked.
txmxer
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1/18/2012 11:08am
txmxer wrote:
SteveS and Dave...why do you feel the need to try and attribute things to me that I did not say? Same goes for you Dave...why ask...
SteveS and Dave...why do you feel the need to try and attribute things to me that I did not say? Same goes for you Dave...why ask, "is it ok?"

This circle jerk of an effort at a discussion is stupid. I plainly and flatly said:

It's not right for someone to share your CD


And OBVIOUSLY a semi-intelligent monkey would understand that NOBODY here is arguing that piracy is good or ok. So, why continue to argue that point? Are you that simple minded? I don't think so. This is about certain laws that will infringe upon people's rights.

And to say, it's always been legal for fair use...the RIAA doesn't think so. And they'll keep plugging away to prevent it. Why do you think they issued videos and music with copy protection??? And breaking that protection is ILLEGAL. Why do you think they fought labeling the material that has copy protection on it? Just food for thought.
flarider wrote:
You know, I have not insulted you once, but you have insulted me several times. I asked a question about fairness and you do not like...
You know, I have not insulted you once, but you have insulted me several times.

I asked a question about fairness and you do not like it being asked.
you keep asking the same question which has already been answered. It gets very frustrating trying to have a discussion when someone wants to beat a damn nail 3 inches into the board instead of address the real issues.

IT IS NOT FAIR FOR SOMEONE TO STEAL SOMEONE ELSE'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

that work for you? Can we move forward?

On the other site, I asked you a direct question. You are supporting a site that according to this law supports piracy. You are complicit. You should be thrown in prison. Is that about how you see it?
TeamGreen
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1/18/2012 11:12am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2012 11:12am
txmxer wrote:
SteveS and Dave...why do you feel the need to try and attribute things to me that I did not say? Same goes for you Dave...why ask...
SteveS and Dave...why do you feel the need to try and attribute things to me that I did not say? Same goes for you Dave...why ask, "is it ok?"

This circle jerk of an effort at a discussion is stupid. I plainly and flatly said:

It's not right for someone to share your CD


And OBVIOUSLY a semi-intelligent monkey would understand that NOBODY here is arguing that piracy is good or ok. So, why continue to argue that point? Are you that simple minded? I don't think so. This is about certain laws that will infringe upon people's rights.

And to say, it's always been legal for fair use...the RIAA doesn't think so. And they'll keep plugging away to prevent it. Why do you think they issued videos and music with copy protection??? And breaking that protection is ILLEGAL. Why do you think they fought labeling the material that has copy protection on it? Just food for thought.
flarider wrote:
You know, I have not insulted you once, but you have insulted me several times. I asked a question about fairness and you do not like...
You know, I have not insulted you once, but you have insulted me several times.

I asked a question about fairness and you do not like it being asked.
Here's the thing...

This same Class of Fucktards that shit all over the Constitution with "The Patriot Act" & the 2011 NDAA have allowed themsleves some pretty fuckin' wide & "blind" lattitude.

Fuck them. Quite frankly, it's kinda foolish of us to keep going down this path of asking Big Brother to protect us while we sit on our fat asses. If someone steals your shit...YOU go after them.

As to "Intent"...

Any ONE OF US can list an example of where our wonderful gov't has fucked us with "intent"...from Tax Law to stupid fuckin' "Wars"...

I'm not taking sides with ANYONE, well, Except Ben Franklin.

We are a bunch of fucking pussies.
flarider
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1/18/2012 11:20am
txmxer wrote:
you keep asking the same question which has already been answered. It gets very frustrating trying to have a discussion when someone wants to beat a...
you keep asking the same question which has already been answered. It gets very frustrating trying to have a discussion when someone wants to beat a damn nail 3 inches into the board instead of address the real issues.

IT IS NOT FAIR FOR SOMEONE TO STEAL SOMEONE ELSE'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

that work for you? Can we move forward?

On the other site, I asked you a direct question. You are supporting a site that according to this law supports piracy. You are complicit. You should be thrown in prison. Is that about how you see it?
As I said there, I am just an advertiser, I am not responsible for content.
I see on this page, as I type this, a Mitt Romney ad, a KLM airlines ad and a Factory Effex ad, is it your contention that they too are "complicit?"
Advertisers are not responsible for content

So, we agree it is not fair for people to steal another person's intellectual property, so why can't it be protected? What's wrong with protecting it, which has been my question all along.

We agree stealing it is bad, so why is protecting it also bad?
txmxer
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1/18/2012 11:22am
flarider wrote:
As I said there, I am just an advertiser, I am not responsible for content. I see on this page, as I type this, a Mitt...
As I said there, I am just an advertiser, I am not responsible for content.
I see on this page, as I type this, a Mitt Romney ad, a KLM airlines ad and a Factory Effex ad, is it your contention that they too are "complicit?"
Advertisers are not responsible for content

So, we agree it is not fair for people to steal another person's intellectual property, so why can't it be protected? What's wrong with protecting it, which has been my question all along.

We agree stealing it is bad, so why is protecting it also bad?
We agree stealing it is bad, so why is protecting it also bad?

Ok, go back and quote where I said protecting content is bad?

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