NFL v Moto - Helmet tech

bonseff
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bonseff
Edited Date/Time 1/29/2015 4:06pm
Any of you come across research on helmet technology? I have always felt football helmets were antiquated but i could be very ignorant on the subject. I also felt moto tech was cutting edge. Just curious if there are studies out there.
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GD2
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GD2 1/28/2015 5:26pm
1/28/2015 5:26pm
I'm not super caught up on the technology going into either anymore. Used to be obsessed with having the latest and greatest when I played football. I do however know that Riddell and Bell are sister companies. So I assume there is similar technology shared between the two to an extent.
bonseff
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bonseff 1/28/2015 5:31pm
1/28/2015 5:31pm
Thanks neighbor, I'm down the road in Richardson. Just moved from Plano.

I just find the subject fascinating. Both sports require serious risk, I know I suffered a couple concussions in my mini days. The Moto4 was basically an egg shell with some pads on it. Just curious if NFL has like 6D type tech and how that industry progressed throughout the years.
Jim Lahey
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Jim Lahey 1/28/2015 5:32pm
1/28/2015 5:32pm
I think football helmets are designed the way they are because they take multiple hits through the course of the game. Where as a moto helmet takes one hit and is tossed.
bonseff
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bonseff 1/28/2015 5:40pm
1/28/2015 5:40pm
Interesting point, Jim.

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GD2
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GD2 1/28/2015 5:57pm
1/28/2015 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 9:19pm
bonseff wrote:
Thanks neighbor, I'm down the road in Richardson. Just moved from Plano. I just find the subject fascinating. Both sports require serious risk, I know I...
Thanks neighbor, I'm down the road in Richardson. Just moved from Plano.

I just find the subject fascinating. Both sports require serious risk, I know I suffered a couple concussions in my mini days. The Moto4 was basically an egg shell with some pads on it. Just curious if NFL has like 6D type tech and how that industry progressed throughout the years.
Haha nice. I've been living in Plano for nearly 13 years now, about to move to Austin for college though. I've spent most of my life playing football but have been doing MX/MTB for a few years now. And no doubt in my mind MX has 1000x more risk. Through 11 years of football I got a broken pinkie and a concussion. I'd like to see how many MX dudes raced for 11 years and had that small of an injury list. It's possible to get injured seriously in football, but obviously far less likely. Anyway I'm not taking anything away from your statement about them both requiring risk, I'm just adding to it.

As for tech comparable to the 6D, the Riddell Revo series is still the top of the line stuff as far as I know. At one point Xenith had a padding system similar to 6D's but they've kind of faded out of popularity.
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ocscottie 1/28/2015 6:01pm
1/28/2015 6:01pm
I remember reading about the new (well not new anymore lol) Riddell football helmet that uses some pretty cool advanced tech to avoid concussions. I just looked it up on their website and was shocked at the price...its only $399.99!

Click: Riddell SpeedFlex Helmet



GD2
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GD2 1/28/2015 6:04pm
1/28/2015 6:04pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2015 6:06pm
ocscottie wrote:
I remember reading about the new (well not new anymore lol) Riddell football helmet that uses some pretty cool advanced tech to avoid concussions. I just...
I remember reading about the new (well not new anymore lol) Riddell football helmet that uses some pretty cool advanced tech to avoid concussions. I just looked it up on their website and was shocked at the price...its only $399.99!

Click: Riddell SpeedFlex Helmet



Haha $399 seems reasonable to you guys for the top of the line helmet (unless you're being sarcastic) but Pee Wee parents and High Schools nearly choke when they see the price tag. My school only gave the running back, quarterback, and wide receivers Revo Speeds since they were so expensive.
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Ashleymx 1/28/2015 6:09pm
1/28/2015 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2015 6:11pm
I still can't work out why helmets and all the body armour is worn in American football when Aussie rules football players don't need any of it ;-) from what I've seen one isn't any rougher than the other but I don't follow either sport so Im probably missing something lol.

Back on topic though I look back at my old helmets that I thought were top notch and I'm surprised how unsafe they look and feel now. Crazy only one concussion growing up racing too. I woke up in the hospital.
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rcannon 1/28/2015 6:09pm
1/28/2015 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2015 6:11pm
Yes, when you play football, you constantly get hit in the head, but its pretty rare you take a direct, full on hit. When you do, its usually from the other guys helmet. Almost as if the sport would be just as safe if no one had them. The hits feel more like when you raise up and forget a counter is above you. But, on those rare occasions when you took on head on, you were out. The helmets were barely adequate, and hard as rocks inside. Padding? I guess....but way more firm than the foam inside a helmet

You did not want to get pulled out, so your reflex's made you jump up. I can think of a few occasions where I'd have to look down and see what color I was wearing. At that point, you just follow the color you have on your short. If you did it right, you either followed them back to the huddle, or off the sidelines so the punt team could come on. A can't miss plan.

The only serious motorcycle hit I took was in a streetbike accident. I hit so hard, and slid so far, I could nto find my bike. I was in shock from the other injuries and broken bones, but my head felt great.

My little brother played fooball for years. His autopsy showed some serious brain trauma. Depression did nto kill him, exactly, but....
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ocscottie 1/28/2015 6:12pm
1/28/2015 6:12pm
GD2 wrote:
Haha $399 seems reasonable to you guys for the top of the line helmet (unless you're being sarcastic) but Pee Wee parents and High Schools nearly...
Haha $399 seems reasonable to you guys for the top of the line helmet (unless you're being sarcastic) but Pee Wee parents and High Schools nearly choke when they see the price tag. My school only gave the running back, quarterback, and wide receivers Revo Speeds since they were so expensive.
I was comparing it to the top of the line MX helmet (6D in this case) which retails for $845.00.
GD2
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GD2 1/28/2015 7:12pm
1/28/2015 7:12pm
GD2 wrote:
Haha $399 seems reasonable to you guys for the top of the line helmet (unless you're being sarcastic) but Pee Wee parents and High Schools nearly...
Haha $399 seems reasonable to you guys for the top of the line helmet (unless you're being sarcastic) but Pee Wee parents and High Schools nearly choke when they see the price tag. My school only gave the running back, quarterback, and wide receivers Revo Speeds since they were so expensive.
ocscottie wrote:
I was comparing it to the top of the line MX helmet (6D in this case) which retails for $845.00.
Ah yeah alright.
731chopper
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731chopper 1/28/2015 8:55pm
1/28/2015 8:55pm
GD2 wrote:
Haha $399 seems reasonable to you guys for the top of the line helmet (unless you're being sarcastic) but Pee Wee parents and High Schools nearly...
Haha $399 seems reasonable to you guys for the top of the line helmet (unless you're being sarcastic) but Pee Wee parents and High Schools nearly choke when they see the price tag. My school only gave the running back, quarterback, and wide receivers Revo Speeds since they were so expensive.
What school did you go to? I graduated Plano East in 2006 and then went to UT Dallas for college. I didn't think there were too many moto guys in this area left.

As for the helmets. I think they are very different in design because of the different types of impacts associated with each sport.
GD2
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GD2 1/28/2015 9:06pm
1/28/2015 9:06pm
731chopper wrote:
What school did you go to? I graduated Plano East in 2006 and then went to UT Dallas for college. I didn't think there were too...
What school did you go to? I graduated Plano East in 2006 and then went to UT Dallas for college. I didn't think there were too many moto guys in this area left.

As for the helmets. I think they are very different in design because of the different types of impacts associated with each sport.
Frisco Liberty, I live in Plano but go to a Frisco ISD school because of how they draw the district lines. And you got that right there aren't many moto guys left around here, a ton of mountain bikers though lol.
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The Rock 1/29/2015 1:45am
1/29/2015 1:45am
Riddell has had an issue or two.
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h&m_cycle 1/29/2015 8:25am
1/29/2015 8:25am
yeah, got knocked out in moto a few times, only 1 time football. Had a bad one @ Highpoint, was told later I was snoring on the side of the track, helmet went out in the trash, $400 is worth it. Look @ Ali, no way to live.
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Eatmydirt03 1/29/2015 9:07am
1/29/2015 9:07am
I was looking at my college foot ball helmet the other day. I can't believe I was dumb enough to run around and hit people with that thing on. Very little protection very heavy. I felt my mx helmet would have been a better choice in some ways.
Maverick313 1/29/2015 9:40am
1/29/2015 9:40am
Ashleymx wrote:
I still can't work out why helmets and all the body armour is worn in American football when Aussie rules football players don't need any of...
I still can't work out why helmets and all the body armour is worn in American football when Aussie rules football players don't need any of it ;-) from what I've seen one isn't any rougher than the other but I don't follow either sport so Im probably missing something lol.

Back on topic though I look back at my old helmets that I thought were top notch and I'm surprised how unsafe they look and feel now. Crazy only one concussion growing up racing too. I woke up in the hospital.
Having played Aussie rules Rugby in Australia and American football, I can tell you rugby is more violent. But some rugby players do wear small shoulder pads and tape their ears.
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Flesh206 1/29/2015 9:58am
1/29/2015 9:58am
I'm a patent illustrator and I've actually worked with helmet related technology more so over the past year. I can't go into it because of client Non-Disclusre agreements but some interesting things will be coming. The most interesting thing is integrated electronic's.

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idahodan 1/29/2015 10:17am
1/29/2015 10:17am
I am a football coach and MX dad. IMHO helmet technology in football helmets has advanced at an incredible pace in the last 8-10 years. New helmets from Xenith (my personal favorite), Schutt, Rawlings and Riddell have improved a ton. Design is much different since a football helmet has to be designed to take smaller hits many, many times per game instead of an MX helmet that has to take one big hit (then theoretically needs to be replaced). As noted earlier, I believe Xenith football helmets and 6D MX helmets share much of the same technology. My son will be wearing a Xenith helmet all the way through high school (and hopefully college). I think the design is excellent.

Please...if your son plays youth football, spend some money and buy your son a top of the line helmet as many of the youth leagues have helmets that are "legal" (they have been re-certified) but they are old technology. Amazing how many parents are willing to pay $150 for the cool cleats their son wants but they won't spend $200 on a good helmet. Sound familiar? We have raced with many families who will buy their kid bling for their bike (like high end custom graphics) but their kid wears a $59 helmet to race.

Also, if you are a football parent, please check out Virgina Tech's helmet study: http://www.sbes.vt.edu/helmet.php

Learn how to identify what helmet is what and make sure your kids aren't wearing inferior safety equipment. You can get the Xenith X2 or the Schutt Air XP Pro for $200 or less online in youth sizes.

Sorry to semi-hijack the thread...just sick of seeing kids wearing bad equipment in both sports that I love...
Wandell
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Wandell 1/29/2015 10:32am
1/29/2015 10:32am
I agree. My son also plays football and baseball. It blows my mind that a parent won't even consider spending $200 on a football helmet but they will proudly talk about the three baseball bats they have that cost $300 each!
Mchenault499 1/29/2015 11:02am
1/29/2015 11:02am
bonseff wrote:
Any of you come across research on helmet technology? I have always felt football helmets were antiquated but i could be very ignorant on the subject...
Any of you come across research on helmet technology? I have always felt football helmets were antiquated but i could be very ignorant on the subject. I also felt moto tech was cutting edge. Just curious if there are studies out there.
The difference is that Moto helmets are designed to take 1 big impact and be replaced. Football helmets are designed to take repeated impacts.

Regarding the price, remember a school or team has to buy hundreds of them. so $300 a pop is 30-50 k. Sure big college football and nfl can afford but majority of the market is high schools and small colleges with little or no scholarships.
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uk125250 1/29/2015 11:05am
1/29/2015 11:05am
idahodan wrote:
I am a football coach and MX dad. IMHO helmet technology in football helmets has advanced at an incredible pace in the last 8-10 years. New...
I am a football coach and MX dad. IMHO helmet technology in football helmets has advanced at an incredible pace in the last 8-10 years. New helmets from Xenith (my personal favorite), Schutt, Rawlings and Riddell have improved a ton. Design is much different since a football helmet has to be designed to take smaller hits many, many times per game instead of an MX helmet that has to take one big hit (then theoretically needs to be replaced). As noted earlier, I believe Xenith football helmets and 6D MX helmets share much of the same technology. My son will be wearing a Xenith helmet all the way through high school (and hopefully college). I think the design is excellent.

Please...if your son plays youth football, spend some money and buy your son a top of the line helmet as many of the youth leagues have helmets that are "legal" (they have been re-certified) but they are old technology. Amazing how many parents are willing to pay $150 for the cool cleats their son wants but they won't spend $200 on a good helmet. Sound familiar? We have raced with many families who will buy their kid bling for their bike (like high end custom graphics) but their kid wears a $59 helmet to race.

Also, if you are a football parent, please check out Virgina Tech's helmet study: http://www.sbes.vt.edu/helmet.php

Learn how to identify what helmet is what and make sure your kids aren't wearing inferior safety equipment. You can get the Xenith X2 or the Schutt Air XP Pro for $200 or less online in youth sizes.

Sorry to semi-hijack the thread...just sick of seeing kids wearing bad equipment in both sports that I love...
Why don't football players wear neck rolls anymore?
scott_nz 1/29/2015 11:32am
1/29/2015 11:32am
Ashleymx wrote:
I still can't work out why helmets and all the body armour is worn in American football when Aussie rules football players don't need any of...
I still can't work out why helmets and all the body armour is worn in American football when Aussie rules football players don't need any of it ;-) from what I've seen one isn't any rougher than the other but I don't follow either sport so Im probably missing something lol.

Back on topic though I look back at my old helmets that I thought were top notch and I'm surprised how unsafe they look and feel now. Crazy only one concussion growing up racing too. I woke up in the hospital.
Maverick313 wrote:
Having played Aussie rules Rugby in Australia and American football, I can tell you rugby is more violent. But some rugby players do wear small shoulder...
Having played Aussie rules Rugby in Australia and American football, I can tell you rugby is more violent. But some rugby players do wear small shoulder pads and tape their ears.
did you play aussie rules or Rugby?? they are different sports (and i wont go into Rugby League or Rugby Union), more tackling in Rugby, more kicking in Aussie Rules,

if you have a look at NFL there is a lot more head to head contact, where as its fairly rare in Rugby, and some rugby players do wear head gear, but it has to be soft foam,
idahodan
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idahodan 1/29/2015 11:44am
1/29/2015 11:44am
idahodan wrote:
I am a football coach and MX dad. IMHO helmet technology in football helmets has advanced at an incredible pace in the last 8-10 years. New...
I am a football coach and MX dad. IMHO helmet technology in football helmets has advanced at an incredible pace in the last 8-10 years. New helmets from Xenith (my personal favorite), Schutt, Rawlings and Riddell have improved a ton. Design is much different since a football helmet has to be designed to take smaller hits many, many times per game instead of an MX helmet that has to take one big hit (then theoretically needs to be replaced). As noted earlier, I believe Xenith football helmets and 6D MX helmets share much of the same technology. My son will be wearing a Xenith helmet all the way through high school (and hopefully college). I think the design is excellent.

Please...if your son plays youth football, spend some money and buy your son a top of the line helmet as many of the youth leagues have helmets that are "legal" (they have been re-certified) but they are old technology. Amazing how many parents are willing to pay $150 for the cool cleats their son wants but they won't spend $200 on a good helmet. Sound familiar? We have raced with many families who will buy their kid bling for their bike (like high end custom graphics) but their kid wears a $59 helmet to race.

Also, if you are a football parent, please check out Virgina Tech's helmet study: http://www.sbes.vt.edu/helmet.php

Learn how to identify what helmet is what and make sure your kids aren't wearing inferior safety equipment. You can get the Xenith X2 or the Schutt Air XP Pro for $200 or less online in youth sizes.

Sorry to semi-hijack the thread...just sick of seeing kids wearing bad equipment in both sports that I love...
uk125250 wrote:
Why don't football players wear neck rolls anymore?
My opinion is that neck rolls did little to no good. Even the newer ones I've seen don't offer much support to restrict neck movement (again, just my opinion). The biggest issue I think football is still dealing with is bad coaching, particularly at the youth level. I think nearly all neck injuries could be avoided if tackling technique were taught correctly. It is getting better, but there are still too many coaches who teach it the way they were taught "way back when". I was taught in the 80's and early 90's to put the crown of my helmet into someone's chest when tackling. Obviously not safe...but...I've seen coaches still teach it this way. Insane...
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uk125250 1/29/2015 11:54am
1/29/2015 11:54am
idahodan wrote:
My opinion is that neck rolls did little to no good. Even the newer ones I've seen don't offer much support to restrict neck movement (again...
My opinion is that neck rolls did little to no good. Even the newer ones I've seen don't offer much support to restrict neck movement (again, just my opinion). The biggest issue I think football is still dealing with is bad coaching, particularly at the youth level. I think nearly all neck injuries could be avoided if tackling technique were taught correctly. It is getting better, but there are still too many coaches who teach it the way they were taught "way back when". I was taught in the 80's and early 90's to put the crown of my helmet into someone's chest when tackling. Obviously not safe...but...I've seen coaches still teach it this way. Insane...
I see hardly any good form tackling when watching college or NFL. Lots of swing and misses.
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hvaughn88 1/29/2015 11:57am
1/29/2015 11:57am Edited Date/Time 1/29/2015 12:17pm
I was very, very lucky to have some good football coaches throughout the years. I was a bit of a headhunter and liked to use my helmet as a weapon...which is very stupid and can have some very bad consequences. My best friend's dad was our coach for a little while (RIP) and he would actually pull me out of games when he saw me dropping my head to hit guys. It really pissed me off at the time, but looking back on it I know he was just looking out for my best interest. Plus, you can't tackle what you can't see. (heard that too many times to count)

Edit: meant to quote idahodan
Maverick313 1/29/2015 3:15pm
1/29/2015 3:15pm
Ashleymx wrote:
I still can't work out why helmets and all the body armour is worn in American football when Aussie rules football players don't need any of...
I still can't work out why helmets and all the body armour is worn in American football when Aussie rules football players don't need any of it ;-) from what I've seen one isn't any rougher than the other but I don't follow either sport so Im probably missing something lol.

Back on topic though I look back at my old helmets that I thought were top notch and I'm surprised how unsafe they look and feel now. Crazy only one concussion growing up racing too. I woke up in the hospital.
Maverick313 wrote:
Having played Aussie rules Rugby in Australia and American football, I can tell you rugby is more violent. But some rugby players do wear small shoulder...
Having played Aussie rules Rugby in Australia and American football, I can tell you rugby is more violent. But some rugby players do wear small shoulder pads and tape their ears.
scott_nz wrote:
did you play aussie rules or Rugby?? they are different sports (and i wont go into Rugby League or Rugby Union), more tackling in Rugby, more...
did you play aussie rules or Rugby?? they are different sports (and i wont go into Rugby League or Rugby Union), more tackling in Rugby, more kicking in Aussie Rules,

if you have a look at NFL there is a lot more head to head contact, where as its fairly rare in Rugby, and some rugby players do wear head gear, but it has to be soft foam,
Sorry I mixed them up I played union rules in high school and aussie rules on a municipal team. I could never get the bounce right in aussie rules.
scott_nz 1/29/2015 3:22pm
1/29/2015 3:22pm
idahodan wrote:
My opinion is that neck rolls did little to no good. Even the newer ones I've seen don't offer much support to restrict neck movement (again...
My opinion is that neck rolls did little to no good. Even the newer ones I've seen don't offer much support to restrict neck movement (again, just my opinion). The biggest issue I think football is still dealing with is bad coaching, particularly at the youth level. I think nearly all neck injuries could be avoided if tackling technique were taught correctly. It is getting better, but there are still too many coaches who teach it the way they were taught "way back when". I was taught in the 80's and early 90's to put the crown of my helmet into someone's chest when tackling. Obviously not safe...but...I've seen coaches still teach it this way. Insane...
when learning to tackle in rugby, you are taught to get your head into the right position, (normally behind the movement of the player, so to lessen the chances of hitting your head,

since we dont have helmets running head first into people never ends well,
scott_nz 1/29/2015 3:23pm
1/29/2015 3:23pm
Maverick313 wrote:
Sorry I mixed them up I played union rules in high school and aussie rules on a municipal team. I could never get the bounce right...
Sorry I mixed them up I played union rules in high school and aussie rules on a municipal team. I could never get the bounce right in aussie rules.
yep different skill set in Aussie Rules for sure, can be a fun game tho, very fast, and you need to be very fit, where as sometimes you can hide a bit of the rugby field to get your breath back,

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Torco1 1/29/2015 3:26pm
1/29/2015 3:26pm
I played Pop Warner and some high school football and while there were some times of head to head hits that caused a few little birdies to fly around my head, it was nothing like smacking your head on the ground after being pitched off your bike at about 40-50 mph and from 10-15' in the air. When it gets to that point, you don't see little birdies flying around your head.......you see Jesus and Satan playing rock, paper, scissors to see who wins your soul.

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