Alta SX Test

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8/2/2017 2:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/2/2017 2:06 PM

http://www.vitalmx.com/videos/member/Darryn-Durham-Tests-Supercross-with-Alta-Motors,15939/GD2,43126

Check out the DD Alta SX test from the Vital homepage. Very cool.

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8/2/2017 2:06 PM

He hit the nail on the head, "anywhere you can ride a BMX bike". That's what will take electric to the next level, more riding areas in an urban setting.

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8/2/2017 2:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/2/2017 2:25 PM

I have read and watched an average amount of PR on these things but not really researched enough to form an opinion. Its obvious that they have come a long, long way and have some things to be optimistic about. My question is what are the disadvantages? Is there any test out there from guys not trying to push them? I just really wonder what the hardest thing to overcome will be(as far as actually riding the bike). It looks very balanced here and straight rhythm, I just cant even imagine what theyre like without riding one.

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8/2/2017 2:16 PM

Chris_Cooksey wrote:

He hit the nail on the head, "anywhere you can ride a BMX bike". That's what will take electric to the next level, more riding areas in an urban setting.

This is a by product of over overpopulation and the mass sprawl that's pushing these products as a solution. It's not a technological advancement.
I'll give up riding before I take up Urban Mx.

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8/2/2017 2:21 PM

montesagold wrote:

I have read and watched an average amount of PR on these things but not really researched enough to form an opinion. Its obvious that they have come a long, long way and have some things to be optimistic about. My question is what are the disadvantages? Is there any test out there from guys not trying to push them? I just really wonder what the hardest thing to overcome will be(as far as actually riding the bike). It looks very balanced here and straight rhythm, I just cant even imagine what theyre like without riding one.

There have been a few riders race experiences in this forum that are interesting.

I think within two years there will be major improvement in battery life and overall handling.

My biggest thing is this... when I buy a new MX bike, I will do a few mods, keep it well-maintained for 7 to 8 years, then resell it. I don't think Alta is in that place yet.

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8/2/2017 2:36 PM

It's the future of dirt bikes and trail riding. Will it replace Pro SX and MX bikes? Maybe not fully. But that's a tiny fraction of the market. This thing will be a weekend warrior or trail riders dream in the future. Little maintenance. Quiet so it opens up more riding areas and access to trails. What's not to like??

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8/2/2017 2:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/2/2017 2:39 PM

This will eventually push tracks closer to the city.


Half the fun when we were kids was waking up early, driving out to the middle of nowhere to ride.


I hate 2017

The world was better when MC and Tom Petty were Gods.

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8/2/2017 2:52 PM

With a finite battery life (I assume) and the batteries being very expensive....What will the used market for a e-bike be? I don't really see one...UNLESS replacement batteries are very inexpensive.

Spend $15K on a bike ride it for three years and then not be able to sell it because the batteries cost $10K...Is that a realistic concern?

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8/2/2017 3:50 PM

Would love to see a couple at the Monster Cup.

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8/2/2017 3:54 PM

I love the "noise" of combustion dirt bikes as much as anyone.
However, I am so looking forward to the opportunities afforded via a quiet alternative

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2019 KTM 350 XCF
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8/2/2017 4:00 PM

Titan1 wrote:

With a finite battery life (I assume) and the batteries being very expensive....What will the used market for a e-bike be? I don't really see one...UNLESS replacement batteries are very inexpensive.

Spend $15K on a bike ride it for three years and then not be able to sell it because the batteries cost $10K...Is that a realistic concern?

I forget the cost of the battery, but its more like 2k than 10K. Considering that's the only expensive part that'll fail on the bike, the used market should be pretty good. A new top and bottom end on a 4 stroke is pretty similar in cost, plus it's much easier to tell the condition of a battery than the condition of a crankshaft.

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8/2/2017 4:02 PM

montesagold wrote:

I have read and watched an average amount of PR on these things but not really researched enough to form an opinion. Its obvious that they have come a long, long way and have some things to be optimistic about. My question is what are the disadvantages? Is there any test out there from guys not trying to push them? I just really wonder what the hardest thing to overcome will be(as far as actually riding the bike). It looks very balanced here and straight rhythm, I just cant even imagine what theyre like without riding one.

It's expensive up front, and run time can't be all day just by refilling a gas tank. To be fair though, I sure as hell can't ride all day.

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8/2/2017 4:07 PM

Titan1 wrote:

With a finite battery life (I assume) and the batteries being very expensive....What will the used market for a e-bike be? I don't really see one...UNLESS replacement batteries are very inexpensive.

Spend $15K on a bike ride it for three years and then not be able to sell it because the batteries cost $10K...Is that a realistic concern?

colintrax wrote:

I forget the cost of the battery, but its more like 2k than 10K. Considering that's the only expensive part that'll fail on the bike, the used market should be pretty good. A new top and bottom end on a 4 stroke is pretty similar in cost, plus it's much easier to tell the condition of a battery than the condition of a crankshaft.

$2K is much better (I had no idea how much they'd actually cost). And is doable. Does the batter fade as it ages? Or does it work 100% and then just stop?

Another question...everyone talks about these electric motors like they'll never fail and are bullet proof...but come on, they are machines, they are going to break. What is the rebuild cost on one of these when they go-like need a complete rebuild? How would it compare to a full top and bottom grenade on a 450-price wise?

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8/2/2017 4:33 PM

Titan1 wrote:

With a finite battery life (I assume) and the batteries being very expensive....What will the used market for a e-bike be? I don't really see one...UNLESS replacement batteries are very inexpensive.

Spend $15K on a bike ride it for three years and then not be able to sell it because the batteries cost $10K...Is that a realistic concern?

The battery life span is 1000 hours. The average rider rides about 70 hours a year. Cost on a replacement battery is $3000.

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8/2/2017 4:37 PM

Titan1 wrote:

With a finite battery life (I assume) and the batteries being very expensive....What will the used market for a e-bike be? I don't really see one...UNLESS replacement batteries are very inexpensive.

Spend $15K on a bike ride it for three years and then not be able to sell it because the batteries cost $10K...Is that a realistic concern?

colintrax wrote:

I forget the cost of the battery, but its more like 2k than 10K. Considering that's the only expensive part that'll fail on the bike, the used market should be pretty good. A new top and bottom end on a 4 stroke is pretty similar in cost, plus it's much easier to tell the condition of a battery than the condition of a crankshaft.

Titan1 wrote:

$2K is much better (I had no idea how much they'd actually cost). And is doable. Does the batter fade as it ages? Or does it work 100% and then just stop?

Another question...everyone talks about these electric motors like they'll never fail and are bullet proof...but come on, they are machines, they are going to break. What is the rebuild cost on one of these when they go-like need a complete rebuild? How would it compare to a full top and bottom grenade on a 450-price wise?

I can't imagine being more than a $1000 tops. Normal electric motors run anywhere from $300 to maybe $800 tops.

I can't imagine the Alta "proprietary" motor running more than $500.

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If you're not mixing gas, you're not haulin ass.

8/2/2017 4:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/2/2017 4:40 PM

Titan1 wrote:

With a finite battery life (I assume) and the batteries being very expensive....What will the used market for a e-bike be? I don't really see one...UNLESS replacement batteries are very inexpensive.

Spend $15K on a bike ride it for three years and then not be able to sell it because the batteries cost $10K...Is that a realistic concern?

colintrax wrote:

I forget the cost of the battery, but its more like 2k than 10K. Considering that's the only expensive part that'll fail on the bike, the used market should be pretty good. A new top and bottom end on a 4 stroke is pretty similar in cost, plus it's much easier to tell the condition of a battery than the condition of a crankshaft.

Titan1 wrote:

$2K is much better (I had no idea how much they'd actually cost). And is doable. Does the batter fade as it ages? Or does it work 100% and then just stop?

Another question...everyone talks about these electric motors like they'll never fail and are bullet proof...but come on, they are machines, they are going to break. What is the rebuild cost on one of these when they go-like need a complete rebuild? How would it compare to a full top and bottom grenade on a 450-price wise?

The motor is brushless and has a life span of over 2000 hours.

Here is a list of things you NEVER have to adjust or replace or buy...

-Gas
-Clutches
-Top ends
-Cranks
-Valve adjustments, replacements
-Oil filters, oil and oil changes
-Spark plugs
-Cams
-Gaskets
-Exhaust
-AIR FILTERS!!!! I hate air filters, sorry..

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8/2/2017 4:41 PM

Titan1 wrote:

With a finite battery life (I assume) and the batteries being very expensive....What will the used market for a e-bike be? I don't really see one...UNLESS replacement batteries are very inexpensive.

Spend $15K on a bike ride it for three years and then not be able to sell it because the batteries cost $10K...Is that a realistic concern?

Zoom wrote:

The battery life span is 1000 hours. The average rider rides about 70 hours a year. Cost on a replacement battery is $3000.

Good info...thanks for that.

Does the battery fade as it ages? Meaning does a brand new battery perform better than a battery with 100 hours on it which has more power than a battery with 500 hours on it?

If it does fade...how would that affect the power from the motor?

ICE motors with a beat engine perform worse than a new ICE engine...I assume a similar thing from the e-motors?

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8/2/2017 4:42 PM

Really hope this transition doesn't take another 10-15 years...We all know electric is the future, lets get the ball rolling.

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8/2/2017 4:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/2/2017 4:45 PM

colintrax wrote:

I forget the cost of the battery, but its more like 2k than 10K. Considering that's the only expensive part that'll fail on the bike, the used market should be pretty good. A new top and bottom end on a 4 stroke is pretty similar in cost, plus it's much easier to tell the condition of a battery than the condition of a crankshaft.

Titan1 wrote:

$2K is much better (I had no idea how much they'd actually cost). And is doable. Does the batter fade as it ages? Or does it work 100% and then just stop?

Another question...everyone talks about these electric motors like they'll never fail and are bullet proof...but come on, they are machines, they are going to break. What is the rebuild cost on one of these when they go-like need a complete rebuild? How would it compare to a full top and bottom grenade on a 450-price wise?

Zoom wrote:

The motor is brushless and has a life span of over 2000 hours.

Here is a list of things you NEVER have to adjust or replace or buy...

-Gas
-Clutches
-Top ends
-Cranks
-Valve adjustments, replacements
-Oil filters, oil and oil changes
-Spark plugs
-Cams
-Gaskets
-Exhaust
-AIR FILTERS!!!! I hate air filters, sorry..

Right...that is the expected life span...but machines break, before their expected lifespan...how much would it cost to repair or fix a blown up e-motor?

Don't get me wrong...I'm on the e-bike bandwagon...I can't wait to own one (when the weight, performance, RANGE...I'm an off road guy, I need RANGE, etc. are comparable to ICE bikes). These are just questions I have...not trying to argue against the bikes and knock them in anyway.

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8/2/2017 4:45 PM

patrickadizzle wrote:

Really hope this transition doesn't take another 10-15 years...We all know electric is the future, lets get the ball rolling.

I'm right there with you.

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8/2/2017 4:46 PM

Titan1 wrote:

$2K is much better (I had no idea how much they'd actually cost). And is doable. Does the batter fade as it ages? Or does it work 100% and then just stop?

Another question...everyone talks about these electric motors like they'll never fail and are bullet proof...but come on, they are machines, they are going to break. What is the rebuild cost on one of these when they go-like need a complete rebuild? How would it compare to a full top and bottom grenade on a 450-price wise?

Zoom wrote:

The motor is brushless and has a life span of over 2000 hours.

Here is a list of things you NEVER have to adjust or replace or buy...

-Gas
-Clutches
-Top ends
-Cranks
-Valve adjustments, replacements
-Oil filters, oil and oil changes
-Spark plugs
-Cams
-Gaskets
-Exhaust
-AIR FILTERS!!!! I hate air filters, sorry..

Titan1 wrote:

Right...that is the expected life span...but machines break, before their expected lifespan...how much would it cost to repair or fix a blown up e-motor?

Don't get me wrong...I'm on the e-bike bandwagon...I can't wait to own one (when the weight, performance, RANGE...I'm an off road guy, I need RANGE, etc. are comparable to ICE bikes). These are just questions I have...not trying to argue against the bikes and knock them in anyway.

Motor replacement cost $3,200

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8/2/2017 4:52 PM

Zoom wrote:

The motor is brushless and has a life span of over 2000 hours.

Here is a list of things you NEVER have to adjust or replace or buy...

-Gas
-Clutches
-Top ends
-Cranks
-Valve adjustments, replacements
-Oil filters, oil and oil changes
-Spark plugs
-Cams
-Gaskets
-Exhaust
-AIR FILTERS!!!! I hate air filters, sorry..

Titan1 wrote:

Right...that is the expected life span...but machines break, before their expected lifespan...how much would it cost to repair or fix a blown up e-motor?

Don't get me wrong...I'm on the e-bike bandwagon...I can't wait to own one (when the weight, performance, RANGE...I'm an off road guy, I need RANGE, etc. are comparable to ICE bikes). These are just questions I have...not trying to argue against the bikes and knock them in anyway.

Zoom wrote:

Motor replacement cost $3,200

Thanks! That's painful...especially while the price is so much higher than ICE bikes.

Of those things you listed...I only find myself buying gas, oil filters, oil, and air filters regularly. I don't usually keep a bike long enough for clutches (well scratch that...I always drop in a rekluse clutch...which I wouldn't need on an e-bike), top ends, cranks, valves, cams, gaskets, exhaust (scratch that again...I always buy a sparky slip on so I can ride on public land).

Do you have any insight into my question above about the battery life relative to battery performance relative to motor performance?

(I honestly do appreciate your info...)

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8/2/2017 5:02 PM

Titan1 wrote:

Right...that is the expected life span...but machines break, before their expected lifespan...how much would it cost to repair or fix a blown up e-motor?

Don't get me wrong...I'm on the e-bike bandwagon...I can't wait to own one (when the weight, performance, RANGE...I'm an off road guy, I need RANGE, etc. are comparable to ICE bikes). These are just questions I have...not trying to argue against the bikes and knock them in anyway.

Zoom wrote:

Motor replacement cost $3,200

Titan1 wrote:

Thanks! That's painful...especially while the price is so much higher than ICE bikes.

Of those things you listed...I only find myself buying gas, oil filters, oil, and air filters regularly. I don't usually keep a bike long enough for clutches (well scratch that...I always drop in a rekluse clutch...which I wouldn't need on an e-bike), top ends, cranks, valves, cams, gaskets, exhaust (scratch that again...I always buy a sparky slip on so I can ride on public land).

Do you have any insight into my question above about the battery life relative to battery performance relative to motor performance?

(I honestly do appreciate your info...)

Your odds of an electric motor failing are WAY less than a gas engine failing. Electric has very few moving parts, while gas obviously has much, much more, and most of them are at very tight tolerances.

As for battery life, I believe there was an expected drop of about 20% performance over the lifetime of the battery. I can't remember if that was the exact number, but it's pretty close.

While the initial cost is high, I know I probably spend at least 1-2k per year on gas, motor parts, oil, premix, etc. Considering the time span that the Alta system is designed to run, the bike will easily pay for itself over the course of a few years. From an engineering standpoint it would be a lot easier to determine how long their drivetrain will last rather than an ICE drivetrain, so I have a feeling their claims are probably pretty close to what can be expected.

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8/2/2017 5:07 PM

Titan1 wrote:

Good info...thanks for that.

Does the battery fade as it ages? Meaning does a brand new battery perform better than a battery with 100 hours on it which has more power than a battery with 500 hours on it?

If it does fade...how would that affect the power from the motor?

ICE motors with a beat engine perform worse than a new ICE engine...I assume a similar thing from the e-motors?

The battery doesn't "fade" but it will lose total charge. After a certain number of charge cycles the total charge held will decrease. I'm not sure exactly how many charge cycles it would take, I know a number has been thrown out but I don't remember exactly what it was and don't want to assume. But the difference with an Alta with 0 hrs vs and Alta with 1000 hrs would be battery life. You may only be able to ride half as long with the bike wth 1000 hrs.

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8/2/2017 5:21 PM

Electric motors don't really fail, just bearings. So same cost as doing crank bearings, but they'll last much longer since electric motors don't put the same stress on bearings as crankshafts do. Also, it's easier to bearings in an electric motor than crank bearings in a gas. If you can do a top end on a 2 stroke, you can replace bearings in an electric motor.

The battery will fade with life, just the way it is.

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8/2/2017 5:40 PM

Is there any safety warning type stuff to indicate "Hey, don't commit to this 100ft jump cause you are about to experience a decrease in power" ?

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8/2/2017 5:50 PM

Sweendoggy wrote:

Is there any safety warning type stuff to indicate "Hey, don't commit to this 100ft jump cause you are about to experience a decrease in power" ?

At a certain charge remaining, the motor will kick into a conservation mode with significantly reduced power. The only warning I believe you would have for this would be your charge indicator, which is easily visible while riding.

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8/2/2017 5:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/2/2017 6:00 PM

I want one right now, badly. No dealers even near me though. (outside Valley Forge, Pa.)

I grew up in So Cal so if I had stayed there after leaving the Army, no issue. Now I have to wait, and you lucky bastages that can get one now, I envy you. :D

Just think about it, no more missed shifts, just power as much as you want or need depending on how much you twist. That is riding, twist the throttle, work the bike. I can't wait.

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8/2/2017 6:00 PM

Battery replacement is around 9000. I can post a video of Fenigstein mentioning it. That doesn't take into any consideration for recycling though. Also the video is a few years old so the price may have come down a bit through their revisions.

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8/2/2017 6:06 PM

RangerLee wrote:

I want one right now, badly. No dealers even near me though. (outside Valley Forge, Pa.)

I grew up in So Cal so if I had stayed there after leaving the Army, no issue. Now I have to wait, and you lucky bastages that can get one now, I envy you. :D

Just think about it, no more missed shifts, just power as much as you want or need depending on how much you twist. That is riding, twist the throttle, work the bike. I can't wait.

Call Town and Country Cycle Center in Wantage, NJ. They are an Alta dealer 2.5 hours from you.

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