Another Track Near Closing

Rim Lock
Posts
713
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Nikiski, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 9:23pm
Hi guys,

Not asking for your help or any money or any thing else.

I just want to make everyone aware that no matter how insulated you think you are or how out in the "tulies" you think you are, that someone, even without just cause, can shut your track down.

The track we have had car races since the 70's and bike races since 2002.

Doesn't matter. They want us gone.

We are in the fight of our lives right now to keep our only track open.

Have been heavily been involved in the process of trying to keep the track going dealing with politicos and sending e-mails and speaking at assembly meetings.

It sucks really bad.

Best to all of you and hope you don't have to go through this any time soon.

Rimmy



|
ehr400
Posts
2630
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Britton, MI, USA
12/21/2010 2:05am
My buddy just texted me something about a bill in Nevada they want to pass that will shut down a shit ton of riding areas. The bill number is 303. Sorry for hi jacking your thread but we are having the same issues in the rural areas I live in.
Rim Lock
Posts
713
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Nikiski, USA
12/21/2010 2:26am
ehr400 wrote:
My buddy just texted me something about a bill in Nevada they want to pass that will shut down a shit ton of riding areas. The...
My buddy just texted me something about a bill in Nevada they want to pass that will shut down a shit ton of riding areas. The bill number is 303. Sorry for hi jacking your thread but we are having the same issues in the rural areas I live in.
No hi jack taken at all.

My thing has been in the past seeing Cali and other high profile places take the hits.
I felt for them but saw they were in heavily populated areas so figured they would have to fight it sooner or later.

Being where we are at, I never ever thought there would be a complaint and it has only taken 3 guys from the neighborhood to almost close us.

I guess that was the point I was trying to make.
Don't take your track for granted cause a-Holes can shut it down quick if you aren't careful.
ehr400
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2630
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Britton, MI, USA
12/21/2010 3:24am
ehr400 wrote:
My buddy just texted me something about a bill in Nevada they want to pass that will shut down a shit ton of riding areas. The...
My buddy just texted me something about a bill in Nevada they want to pass that will shut down a shit ton of riding areas. The bill number is 303. Sorry for hi jacking your thread but we are having the same issues in the rural areas I live in.
Rim Lock wrote:
No hi jack taken at all. My thing has been in the past seeing Cali and other high profile places take the hits. I felt for...
No hi jack taken at all.

My thing has been in the past seeing Cali and other high profile places take the hits.
I felt for them but saw they were in heavily populated areas so figured they would have to fight it sooner or later.

Being where we are at, I never ever thought there would be a complaint and it has only taken 3 guys from the neighborhood to almost close us.

I guess that was the point I was trying to make.
Don't take your track for granted cause a-Holes can shut it down quick if you aren't careful.
Our club fought for almost 10 years in court with the TWP. because of one neighbor 1/2 mile away. The track and clubhouse was there 30 years before this guy moved there. I know what you are talking about, and we are in the middle of no where!

The Shop

Hammer
Posts
93
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Longwood, FL, USA
12/21/2010 5:42am
At what point of the life cycle will people start to realize, it we ride bikes that did not come across as obnoxiously loud, we could enjoy our sport just about anywhere.... You could set up tracks in the middle of suburbia, and 90% of the neighborhood would not even know the track existed! The sport is killing it’s self by not recognizing the need to be good neighboors.

Good luck with the battles above, but it will only get worse, or the "MAN" will provide regulations that will handicap the sport and force everyones hand who wishes to participate!

Enuf Sed, HAMMER
JustMX
Posts
5355
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
12/21/2010 6:35am
Rimlock,

I feel your pain. I have lost several tracks along the way and have been turned down on several other proposed facilities.

Something has to be done about noise, but those in a position to really do something have failed so miserably they should be ashamed.

Unfortunately they will not realize it until it is too late.

By the time steps are taken to quiet them down there will be restirctions on building tracks that are not noise related.

You will have to apply for a special permit and it will only take one person against for whatever reason (making greenhouse gases, dust, etc.) to squash it.
ehr400
Posts
2630
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Britton, MI, USA
12/21/2010 7:10am
I still strongly believe noise is the easiest for them to point out right now regarding tracks and ORV areas. I think if everyones bikes were 70dB they would be saying soil erotion, dust, carbon footprint, etc. These people arent rational and noise is the easiest thing they can get alot of people that arent down with their cause to agree with them.

One track I ride at is near a dragstrip, they host IHRA events and race every Friday/ Saturday with test and tune Wed. The track has been there since 1964. Houses have been built around the area and it is loud, yet no one says anything. The minute this one guy builds his mx track less then 1/2 mile from the strip all of a sudden there is noise issues. The cars literally drown out the bike noise. But it is those evil dirtbikers. Each to their own I guess.
B DUB 333
Posts
772
Joined
9/9/2010
Location
New Richland, MN, USA
12/21/2010 7:37am
Rim Lock wrote:
Hi guys, Not asking for your help or any money or any thing else. I just want to make everyone aware that no matter how insulated...
Hi guys,

Not asking for your help or any money or any thing else.

I just want to make everyone aware that no matter how insulated you think you are or how out in the "tulies" you think you are, that someone, even without just cause, can shut your track down.

The track we have had car races since the 70's and bike races since 2002.

Doesn't matter. They want us gone.

We are in the fight of our lives right now to keep our only track open.

Have been heavily been involved in the process of trying to keep the track going dealing with politicos and sending e-mails and speaking at assembly meetings.

It sucks really bad.

Best to all of you and hope you don't have to go through this any time soon.

Rimmy



How about giving the guy a few hundred bucks a year? I mean ya never know, money can do wonders. I know its not fair, but if you guys could come to some sort of an agreement then the track stays open and MAYBE you could bribe them enough to sign a long term deal. Just a thought...
nc_mx_kid
Posts
1485
Joined
3/6/2007
Location
Team Charlotte Motorsports, NC, USA
12/21/2010 11:47am
good luck in your fight
Nutty C
Posts
463
Joined
10/28/2009
Location
Waterdown, CA
12/21/2010 1:04pm Edited Date/Time 12/21/2010 1:05pm
Once again if the industry ( manufacturers, sanctioning bodies, riders etc. ) do not start hiring lawyers to fight these track closures the sport is doomed. Noise is a problem without a doubt and it should be addresed.
Maybe you could come to a agreement on days of operation . Some riding is better than none.
Good luck
teggers
Posts
3722
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Winter Park, FL, USA
12/21/2010 1:09pm
JustMX wrote:
Rimlock, I feel your pain. I have lost several tracks along the way and have been turned down on several other proposed facilities. Something has to...
Rimlock,

I feel your pain. I have lost several tracks along the way and have been turned down on several other proposed facilities.

Something has to be done about noise, but those in a position to really do something have failed so miserably they should be ashamed.

Unfortunately they will not realize it until it is too late.

By the time steps are taken to quiet them down there will be restirctions on building tracks that are not noise related.

You will have to apply for a special permit and it will only take one person against for whatever reason (making greenhouse gases, dust, etc.) to squash it.
Best post of the year.....well, you know what I mean.
JustMX
Posts
5355
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
12/21/2010 1:36pm
Nutty C wrote:
Once again if the industry ( manufacturers, sanctioning bodies, riders etc. ) do not start hiring lawyers to fight these track closures the sport is doomed...
Once again if the industry ( manufacturers, sanctioning bodies, riders etc. ) do not start hiring lawyers to fight these track closures the sport is doomed. Noise is a problem without a doubt and it should be addresed.
Maybe you could come to a agreement on days of operation . Some riding is better than none.
Good luck
Why should they hire damned attorneys when they could take proactive steps to cut the noise?

There is absolutely NO HISTORY of anybody in this sport taking positive steps to really confront the noise issue.

Why aren't our sound levels already at least as low as the GP's?

Why aren't there sound checks at large Amateur National events like Ponca, Loretta's and the Mini-O's?

Why in the hell are we puting out crap like the Dubach PR that GuyB posted?

We don't have to stick our heads in the sand.

We are all deaf from years of excessive noise at every level or our sport.
12/21/2010 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 12/21/2010 2:38pm
Hammer wrote:
At what point of the life cycle will people start to realize, it we ride bikes that did not come across as obnoxiously loud, we could...
At what point of the life cycle will people start to realize, it we ride bikes that did not come across as obnoxiously loud, we could enjoy our sport just about anywhere.... You could set up tracks in the middle of suburbia, and 90% of the neighborhood would not even know the track existed! The sport is killing it’s self by not recognizing the need to be good neighboors.

Good luck with the battles above, but it will only get worse, or the "MAN" will provide regulations that will handicap the sport and force everyones hand who wishes to participate!

Enuf Sed, HAMMER
Sorry bud, but the reality of it has very little to do with being "Obnoxiously loud" Here in Cali it can be any one of many things, sound, dust (The one that is used the most). lighting at night, traffic to and from the track or any one of a zillion environmental actions or legislative permit issues.



When was the last time anyone here ever heard of a NHRA Drag race, NASCAR event, Monster Truck rally, tractor pull, boat race , jet ski race, snow mobile race, air show, airplane pylon race, cart race, rally car race, Indy car race etc etc etc get closed down because of noise?



Why is it that a SX event or a Outdoor National motocross event, who's vehicles don't produce any where near the sound levels of any of the above events, have a bunch of people running around saying if we were only quieter we wouldn't be shut down when all the other motorized events get a pass on noise?



Really... If we were just quieter we could all be left alone and ride our bikes in peace?



This bugs the shit out of me. Open your frigg'n eyes people. You have been sold a bill of goods that won't pay off.



Don't get me wrong. I am all for quieter bikes, especially in environments were you are trail riding and sharing the great outdoors with others, but if you really think quite bikes (especially when it comes to racing) is going to save us from being shut down, you will lose the very thing you are trying to protect.



There are lot's of reasons people USE as ecuses to say they don't want motorcycle racing around, but if you look at the facts, having a quite bikes is not going to stop these people form shutting down your track.



Politicians who place a dollar value as it relates to income for them or their city regarding motorized events are what determine whether they are allowed to run or not. combined with liability. These are the two real factors.



These politicians could give a shit about your "Right" or how much pleasure you or your family enjoy from the ''Sport". They only use sound as an excuse. We are chasing a pipe dream believing that having quieter bikes will stop the closure of our tracks and riding areas.



If we don't go after and hold these politicians accountable for what we desire - a safe place to enjoy our "Sport" We will eventually end up with all of our riding areas and tracks shut down.



Sure we need to have quieter bikes - but are loud bikes really the greatest contributing factor for these tracks to be shut down?



NO WAY!!



Lack of involvement in protecting our tracks is the greatest cause to our losses



Sound is just an excuse that is used....
Blake
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2934
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Location
USA
12/21/2010 4:02pm
The snowmobile crowd got the Omnibus deal shut down.....for now.
12/21/2010 4:18pm
Blake wrote:
The snowmobile crowd got the Omnibus deal shut down.....for now.
Due to noise or?
JustMX
Posts
5355
Joined
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Location
USA
12/21/2010 5:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/21/2010 5:02pm
Sorry bud, but the reality of it has very little to do with being "Obnoxiously loud" Here in Cali it can be any one of many...
Sorry bud, but the reality of it has very little to do with being "Obnoxiously loud" Here in Cali it can be any one of many things, sound, dust (The one that is used the most). lighting at night, traffic to and from the track or any one of a zillion environmental actions or legislative permit issues.



When was the last time anyone here ever heard of a NHRA Drag race, NASCAR event, Monster Truck rally, tractor pull, boat race , jet ski race, snow mobile race, air show, airplane pylon race, cart race, rally car race, Indy car race etc etc etc get closed down because of noise?



Why is it that a SX event or a Outdoor National motocross event, who's vehicles don't produce any where near the sound levels of any of the above events, have a bunch of people running around saying if we were only quieter we wouldn't be shut down when all the other motorized events get a pass on noise?



Really... If we were just quieter we could all be left alone and ride our bikes in peace?



This bugs the shit out of me. Open your frigg'n eyes people. You have been sold a bill of goods that won't pay off.



Don't get me wrong. I am all for quieter bikes, especially in environments were you are trail riding and sharing the great outdoors with others, but if you really think quite bikes (especially when it comes to racing) is going to save us from being shut down, you will lose the very thing you are trying to protect.



There are lot's of reasons people USE as ecuses to say they don't want motorcycle racing around, but if you look at the facts, having a quite bikes is not going to stop these people form shutting down your track.



Politicians who place a dollar value as it relates to income for them or their city regarding motorized events are what determine whether they are allowed to run or not. combined with liability. These are the two real factors.



These politicians could give a shit about your "Right" or how much pleasure you or your family enjoy from the ''Sport". They only use sound as an excuse. We are chasing a pipe dream believing that having quieter bikes will stop the closure of our tracks and riding areas.



If we don't go after and hold these politicians accountable for what we desire - a safe place to enjoy our "Sport" We will eventually end up with all of our riding areas and tracks shut down.



Sure we need to have quieter bikes - but are loud bikes really the greatest contributing factor for these tracks to be shut down?



NO WAY!!



Lack of involvement in protecting our tracks is the greatest cause to our losses



Sound is just an excuse that is used....
Sorry pal, but your stupidity is showing.

Who in the hell is even talking about pro national supercross and motocross?

You think that is what Rimlock is running?

We are talking about the very foundation of our sport. The local tracks that are either going away or new facilities that are never able to open.

blah blah dust, blah blah traffic, blah blah enviroment. Those things are hardly ever mentioned anywhere except California.

They are such a tiny part of all that a track has to deal with compared to the real killer of our sport that they are hardly worth mentioning.

It is like saying fast food isn't causing the obese problem in this country because if it wasn't available people would just get fat eating vegetables

And to make it all worse, in this economy tracks are taking a really hard look at staying open if they run into any opposition at all.

12/21/2010 5:35pm
Hahahaha - It figures someone like you can't think past the surface given this moronic statement:

"It is like saying fast food isn't causing the obese problem in this country because if it wasn't available people would just get fat eating vegetables"

Peoples choices and the amount of food they eat are what cause them to get fat - not the "Fast food" they eat in and of itself.

Talk about "Your stupidity is showing"

Not really sure what you're trying to say above cause you never really formed an intelligent thought. Try to look beyond the surface and the superficial thought that excessive noise is the only reason we are getting tracks shut down.

Sorry for straining your brain to think a few steps beyond the obvious...

Nutty C
Posts
463
Joined
10/28/2009
Location
Waterdown, CA
12/21/2010 5:46pm
Okay I hear all this nater. But the question is how are you going to fight track closures,
and your right to ride and enjoy. Just as there is a injured riders foundation there needs to be a foundation that can fight these sport killing law suits and that takes money. Money from donations , manufacturers,sanctioning bodies and riders. Just think if everyone involved in this sport mailed 20 bucks and one closure was targeted what kind of fight you could put up .
A couple of town councils or private resident gets hammered for 500 grand and word gets out, and the next one will think twice before they drag some track owner off to court.

Now lets hear some ass hole on this forum get on hear and drag my idea through the mud.
12/21/2010 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/21/2010 6:01pm
Yep, you answered your question of how to fight closures all right and I totally agree with you. It's about information and organization. Something our opposition is very adept with. Although having quite bikes can't hurt, believing that the cause of our tracks being shut down is due to noise is naive and gives a false sense of purpose.



Until we organize and hold the elected politicians accountable to our desires, noisy bikes or not, our tracks will continue to be shut down...
Rim Lock
Posts
713
Joined
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Location
Nikiski, USA
12/21/2010 6:55pm
Well, if it means anything to anyone, I still ride a 2-stroke.

The 4-strokes are insanely loud and not to start another thread all together but the quad 4-strokes seem to be the loudest. Don't know why that is.

I believe FMF makes a Q-exhaust but not sure if any other pipe manufacturer addresses the issue.

Dating myself here but still remember the old Bassani pipes motto of "Less sound - More ground" or something like that and that was from the 70's.

One thing that does bother me about some of my friends who ride 4-strokes and claim to be decent mechanics is if you ask them when the last time they put new muffler packing in their exhaust, they stare at you like you were an eye chart.
In other words, it isn't in their maintenance program.

If any of you are interested, I did a search on decibel meters and there are a bunch of them available for under a hundred bucks. Our club is going to buy one. We aren't going to implement enforcement right off the bat but start bringing awareness to people how loud their bikes really are.

Yesterday I was tasked to sending e-mails to over 30 politicians (City Council, Planning Commission, Assembly, Mayors, City Manager, etc.).
It has truly been one of the most stressful things I have ever been through and I wouldn't wish this hassle on anyone.

My best advice would be to be proactive and don't let it get to this point.
Rim Lock
Posts
713
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Nikiski, USA
12/21/2010 7:07pm
Rim Lock wrote:
Hi guys, Not asking for your help or any money or any thing else. I just want to make everyone aware that no matter how insulated...
Hi guys,

Not asking for your help or any money or any thing else.

I just want to make everyone aware that no matter how insulated you think you are or how out in the "tulies" you think you are, that someone, even without just cause, can shut your track down.

The track we have had car races since the 70's and bike races since 2002.

Doesn't matter. They want us gone.

We are in the fight of our lives right now to keep our only track open.

Have been heavily been involved in the process of trying to keep the track going dealing with politicos and sending e-mails and speaking at assembly meetings.

It sucks really bad.

Best to all of you and hope you don't have to go through this any time soon.

Rimmy



B DUB 333 wrote:
How about giving the guy a few hundred bucks a year? I mean ya never know, money can do wonders. I know its not fair, but...
How about giving the guy a few hundred bucks a year? I mean ya never know, money can do wonders. I know its not fair, but if you guys could come to some sort of an agreement then the track stays open and MAYBE you could bribe them enough to sign a long term deal. Just a thought...
Its a great thought and I personally would be willing to do it but there are most likely some legal issues there. LOL

I'm an old SMU football fan and just watched the ESPN 30-30 show about SMU (Pony Excess) and the death penalty they received ruining their football program so am a bit nervous on those types of issues lately!
steve_97060
Posts
1400
Joined
10/4/2009
Location
Florence, AZ, USA
12/21/2010 8:39pm
yeah, if the bikes were all 15 db's quieter, or if we all still rode 2 strokes, our troubles would all disappear..
thatdad
Posts
229
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
12/22/2010 10:50am
ehr400 wrote:
I still strongly believe noise is the easiest for them to point out right now regarding tracks and ORV areas. I think if everyones bikes were...
I still strongly believe noise is the easiest for them to point out right now regarding tracks and ORV areas. I think if everyones bikes were 70dB they would be saying soil erotion, dust, carbon footprint, etc. These people arent rational and noise is the easiest thing they can get alot of people that arent down with their cause to agree with them.

One track I ride at is near a dragstrip, they host IHRA events and race every Friday/ Saturday with test and tune Wed. The track has been there since 1964. Houses have been built around the area and it is loud, yet no one says anything. The minute this one guy builds his mx track less then 1/2 mile from the strip all of a sudden there is noise issues. The cars literally drown out the bike noise. But it is those evil dirtbikers. Each to their own I guess.
I respectfully disagree.

I am an attorney with a solid real estate background and over 20 years of litigation experience. I raced as a kid and both of my sons race. I have kept several local tracks open fot the last five or six years and pissed off more than my share of townships and neighborhoods.

The four strokes are too loud. The noise carries further and they disturb other peoples enjoyment of their homes, particularly on Sunday afternoon. We have gone backwards and everyone knows it.

If the bikes were quiet, we wouldn't attract attention. Erosion and dust can be controlled by the track operators. Noise is what causes the problems.
Nutty C
Posts
463
Joined
10/28/2009
Location
Waterdown, CA
12/22/2010 10:54am Edited Date/Time 12/22/2010 10:55am
Rim Lock wrote:
Well, if it means anything to anyone, I still ride a 2-stroke. The 4-strokes are insanely loud and not to start another thread all together but...
Well, if it means anything to anyone, I still ride a 2-stroke.

The 4-strokes are insanely loud and not to start another thread all together but the quad 4-strokes seem to be the loudest. Don't know why that is.

I believe FMF makes a Q-exhaust but not sure if any other pipe manufacturer addresses the issue.

Dating myself here but still remember the old Bassani pipes motto of "Less sound - More ground" or something like that and that was from the 70's.

One thing that does bother me about some of my friends who ride 4-strokes and claim to be decent mechanics is if you ask them when the last time they put new muffler packing in their exhaust, they stare at you like you were an eye chart.
In other words, it isn't in their maintenance program.

If any of you are interested, I did a search on decibel meters and there are a bunch of them available for under a hundred bucks. Our club is going to buy one. We aren't going to implement enforcement right off the bat but start bringing awareness to people how loud their bikes really are.

Yesterday I was tasked to sending e-mails to over 30 politicians (City Council, Planning Commission, Assembly, Mayors, City Manager, etc.).
It has truly been one of the most stressful things I have ever been through and I wouldn't wish this hassle on anyone.

My best advice would be to be proactive and don't let it get to this point.
Get that decibal meter today and start enforcing the same level as a AMA event tomorrow. Don't drag your feet or the show will be over.
12/22/2010 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2010 1:01pm
"If the bikes were quiet, we wouldn't attract attention. Erosion and dust can be controlled by the track operators. Noise is what causes the problems."



thatdad - You've bought into the lie. "Noise is what causes the problems."



Noise is not what causes the problems - it is just one of the problems. Don't you see the bigger picture? What is the greatest cause of more track closures and motorcycle land use closures? You really believe it is noise? We have all been lead to believe that, but don't you see the fallacy in that type of single minded thinking? If noise were truly the main cause of track closures and land use closures all we would have to do is have zero decibel bikes and we could keep all of our tracks open and lands from being closed - right?



NOT ON YOUR LIFE!



There are many factors and like I have been saying, having quieter bikes is a good thing, but it is way to painfully obvious that sound levels in and of themselves are just a small part of the reason tracks get shut down and we lose riding spaces.



Apathy is the greatest cause of our loss of riding areas.



What part of noise had anything to do with this?

America's Great Outdoors Act of 2010



Absolutely ZERO!



When we lost over 2 millions aces of public riding area in 2009 due to legislative maneuvering what part of that loss was excessive noise responsible for?



Yep - zip, nada nothing!



So what exactly is the greatest cause of us losing our riding areas? Noise? Hardly...



Noise as it relates to private land use has become the cause celeb of people who want to shut down motorcycle riding on private land, but the noise itself is not the real battle. As a community of motorcycle enthusiast we have become lazy and like a lot of America we look for a simple single issue to lay blame so that we don't have to think beyond the surface. Yeah, quite bikes, that's the answer, if we just had quite bikes everything would be OK....



BULLSHIT!



We need to organize and be pro-active. We need to overwhelm our city officials, council members, Congressmen Senators etc and let them know if they are involved with land closures or legislation that restricts private land use they will be held accountable. Until we do this, we are all chasing a pipe dream believing that quite bikes will save us.



Often times a noise issue, just like Rim Lock's issue of a neighbor complaining is a single person or very small group that grabs the ear of the city officials. Making quieter bikes isn't going to help Rim Lock and he knows it -

"My best advice would be to be proactive and don't let it get to this point."



We have to be proactive and vigilant. We have to be aggressive in watching legislation and city ordinances that are being written with the intent to restrict us and shut them down before they get off the ground. We have to use the same legal tactics our opponents use to shut down our riding areas to defend our riding areas against them. We have to use city ordinances and the legislative process to go on the offense and protect our riding areas, not wait until they are used against us.



In short if we go the simple route and buy into the "If we just had quite bikes" argument, we will all end up losers. As Rim Lock is finding out, it is extremely difficult and requires massive organization, money and hard work to fight off even one complaining neighbor, but that is the reality of what we have to do. We need to work together.



Sure, quite bikes can help, but the issues are much more complicated then that and require the hard work commitment and organization that, for what ever reason, we can not, as a motorcycle community seem to grasp. Especially when even amongst our own people we dumb down the issue to a simple belief that if we just had quite bikes everything would be OK...



















motogroove
Posts
183
Joined
5/5/2010
Location
Madison, CT, USA
12/22/2010 3:30pm
t-shirt ideas:

I'm so fast, I need a loud bike.

or

I'm so fast, I don't need a loud bike.

Nutty C
Posts
463
Joined
10/28/2009
Location
Waterdown, CA
12/22/2010 3:41pm
"If the bikes were quiet, we wouldn't attract attention. Erosion and dust can be controlled by the track operators. Noise is what causes the problems." thatdad...
"If the bikes were quiet, we wouldn't attract attention. Erosion and dust can be controlled by the track operators. Noise is what causes the problems."



thatdad - You've bought into the lie. "Noise is what causes the problems."



Noise is not what causes the problems - it is just one of the problems. Don't you see the bigger picture? What is the greatest cause of more track closures and motorcycle land use closures? You really believe it is noise? We have all been lead to believe that, but don't you see the fallacy in that type of single minded thinking? If noise were truly the main cause of track closures and land use closures all we would have to do is have zero decibel bikes and we could keep all of our tracks open and lands from being closed - right?



NOT ON YOUR LIFE!



There are many factors and like I have been saying, having quieter bikes is a good thing, but it is way to painfully obvious that sound levels in and of themselves are just a small part of the reason tracks get shut down and we lose riding spaces.



Apathy is the greatest cause of our loss of riding areas.



What part of noise had anything to do with this?

America's Great Outdoors Act of 2010



Absolutely ZERO!



When we lost over 2 millions aces of public riding area in 2009 due to legislative maneuvering what part of that loss was excessive noise responsible for?



Yep - zip, nada nothing!



So what exactly is the greatest cause of us losing our riding areas? Noise? Hardly...



Noise as it relates to private land use has become the cause celeb of people who want to shut down motorcycle riding on private land, but the noise itself is not the real battle. As a community of motorcycle enthusiast we have become lazy and like a lot of America we look for a simple single issue to lay blame so that we don't have to think beyond the surface. Yeah, quite bikes, that's the answer, if we just had quite bikes everything would be OK....



BULLSHIT!



We need to organize and be pro-active. We need to overwhelm our city officials, council members, Congressmen Senators etc and let them know if they are involved with land closures or legislation that restricts private land use they will be held accountable. Until we do this, we are all chasing a pipe dream believing that quite bikes will save us.



Often times a noise issue, just like Rim Lock's issue of a neighbor complaining is a single person or very small group that grabs the ear of the city officials. Making quieter bikes isn't going to help Rim Lock and he knows it -

"My best advice would be to be proactive and don't let it get to this point."



We have to be proactive and vigilant. We have to be aggressive in watching legislation and city ordinances that are being written with the intent to restrict us and shut them down before they get off the ground. We have to use the same legal tactics our opponents use to shut down our riding areas to defend our riding areas against them. We have to use city ordinances and the legislative process to go on the offense and protect our riding areas, not wait until they are used against us.



In short if we go the simple route and buy into the "If we just had quite bikes" argument, we will all end up losers. As Rim Lock is finding out, it is extremely difficult and requires massive organization, money and hard work to fight off even one complaining neighbor, but that is the reality of what we have to do. We need to work together.



Sure, quite bikes can help, but the issues are much more complicated then that and require the hard work commitment and organization that, for what ever reason, we can not, as a motorcycle community seem to grasp. Especially when even amongst our own people we dumb down the issue to a simple belief that if we just had quite bikes everything would be OK...



















After reading most of your posts I have come to the conclusion you must somehow be tied in to the after market exhaust industry for off road vehicles. ( bikes and quads)
12/22/2010 6:49pm
Nutty C wrote:
After reading most of your posts I have come to the conclusion you must somehow be tied in to the after market exhaust industry for off...
After reading most of your posts I have come to the conclusion you must somehow be tied in to the after market exhaust industry for off road vehicles. ( bikes and quads)
Good guess Nutty. I consider Mitch Payton and Donny Emler "Friends" as they have both been generous in supporting me, but no, I am not really tied to the aftermarket exhaust industry.

Actually, I would think that because I am clearly not convinced quite exhausts for motorcycles are the single most important thing that will save us from more land closures and tracks being shut down, you might think the opposite...

Do quite exhausts help our cause? Yes. Will quite exhausts in and of themselves prevent closures? No way!

In fact, in some ways I think you could make the argument that quite exhaust are contributing to land closures...

Crazy you say? For me, the greatest cause of us losing our riding areas is apathy and the false sense that I don't have to get involved, after all there are plenty of people who fall into the category of the "I've done my part, i have a quite exhaust"

If you believe that loud bikes are the reason for closures and so you go out and bolt on a quite exhaust and leave it at that, but don't get involved proactively in actually protecting our riding areas, Then it is easy to see that a quite exhaust can contribute to rider apathy.

And it this apathy that is the greatest reason we are losing or riding areas...

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