Have we reached a Manufacturer cap?

12/28/2025 8:48am
Small manufacturers don’t stand a chance in meeting the AMA Pro rules, they need to have 400 of one particular model available for sale in the...

Small manufacturers don’t stand a chance in meeting the AMA Pro rules, they need to have 400 of one particular model available for sale in the USA. The European brands sell more 300 2-strokes than any other model, in some cases mote than every other model combined, To bring 400 250 or 450 4-strokes to the table is no easy task.


I’m surprised that Beta is able to meet these requirements, I would venture to guess that is also why you could pick up a 450RX for $6000 this summer. That’s a lot of money lost.


This is why you will not see any smaller manufacturers attempting to compete, it’s not because they wouldn’t like to.

Gravel wrote:
Dragging out a long dead horse..You make a great case for letting 300cc smokers in the 450 class. The fan base for SX has a lot...

Dragging out a long dead horse..

You make a great case for letting 300cc smokers in the 450 class. The fan base for SX has a lot of off road riders, a lot of them ride 300s, I think it’d definitely create some enthusiastic fans.

OK, it’s just too simple/logical. I’ll rebury the skeleton..

That would be cool but the AMA would have to update their archaic rules. 

2
12/28/2025 8:59am
Gravel wrote:
Dragging out a long dead horse..You make a great case for letting 300cc smokers in the 450 class. The fan base for SX has a lot...

Dragging out a long dead horse..

You make a great case for letting 300cc smokers in the 450 class. The fan base for SX has a lot of off road riders, a lot of them ride 300s, I think it’d definitely create some enthusiastic fans.

OK, it’s just too simple/logical. I’ll rebury the skeleton..

Oh I wasn’t even going there, it’s just the homologation rule that would need to change. Probably unintentional, but it serves as a gatekeeper that keeps the smaller manufacturers from being able to race.

philG
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GB
12/29/2025 3:24am

When the gates are full with factory riders and the privateer is pushed out, does that mean it’s time to go back to works bikes?  

You realise that all these riders come from the same pool right? 

There isnt some magic group of guys that just race factory bikes. 

IMO they should bin 250 East and West, make that a full series with an age limit, instead of racing half the guys in half the races, forever. 

People getting giddy over Max Anstie still racing a 250 need to call it for what it is. 

In a world where the market shrinks more every year, the number of bikes produced should be based on worldwide sales, AND make a differentiation for manufacturers that only make Motorcycles.  Honda makes cars, and huge amounts of garden equipment and road bikes, Kawasaki are a huge engineering firm, Suzuki makes cars,road bikes, and Yamaha make road bikes and musical instruments( although i guess they are not in the same pot) .   

But small companies like TM who only make racing motorcycles, (and kart engines) have no commercial safety net other than the things they make to race, despite being in business for 50 years... they dont even to MXGP due to the cost , but if someone wanted to run the bikes in AMA , they cant, which is dumb.   

We need to encourage participation, not bar it for rules made when Suzuki sold more RM100's than the entire world buys dirtbikes now.  

2
12/29/2025 5:24am

When the gates are full with factory riders and the privateer is pushed out, does that mean it’s time to go back to works bikes?  

philG wrote:
You realise that all these riders come from the same pool right? There isnt some magic group of guys that just race factory bikes. IMO they should bin...

You realise that all these riders come from the same pool right? 

There isnt some magic group of guys that just race factory bikes. 

IMO they should bin 250 East and West, make that a full series with an age limit, instead of racing half the guys in half the races, forever. 

People getting giddy over Max Anstie still racing a 250 need to call it for what it is. 

In a world where the market shrinks more every year, the number of bikes produced should be based on worldwide sales, AND make a differentiation for manufacturers that only make Motorcycles.  Honda makes cars, and huge amounts of garden equipment and road bikes, Kawasaki are a huge engineering firm, Suzuki makes cars,road bikes, and Yamaha make road bikes and musical instruments( although i guess they are not in the same pot) .   

But small companies like TM who only make racing motorcycles, (and kart engines) have no commercial safety net other than the things they make to race, despite being in business for 50 years... they dont even to MXGP due to the cost , but if someone wanted to run the bikes in AMA , they cant, which is dumb.   

We need to encourage participation, not bar it for rules made when Suzuki sold more RM100's than the entire world buys dirtbikes now.  

I think this is an excellent point. TM being in would be great and Supercross would definitely draw more eyes on the brand. KTM did solely bikes and now with Husq as a subsidiary who have a background in machinery and tools has probably helped them massively too. I just think it would be cool to see a few more in there. Dirt Bike Magazine did a 12 brand 450 shootout that included Kove and Gas Gas

The Shop

Gravel
Posts
1849
Joined
2/22/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA, USA
12/29/2025 6:46am
Gravel wrote:
Dragging out a long dead horse..You make a great case for letting 300cc smokers in the 450 class. The fan base for SX has a lot...

Dragging out a long dead horse..

You make a great case for letting 300cc smokers in the 450 class. The fan base for SX has a lot of off road riders, a lot of them ride 300s, I think it’d definitely create some enthusiastic fans.

OK, it’s just too simple/logical. I’ll rebury the skeleton..

Oh I wasn’t even going there, it’s just the homologation rule that would need to change. Probably unintentional, but it serves as a gatekeeper that keeps...

Oh I wasn’t even going there, it’s just the homologation rule that would need to change. Probably unintentional, but it serves as a gatekeeper that keeps the smaller manufacturers from being able to race.

Understand that I went off course, it’s just such an easy target. If there’s a lot of interest in 300cc 2 strokes in the market, and there is, why not let them race against 450s?

Apologies for the hijack

1
Pop Shmoke
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1903
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6/17/2020
Location
Boston, MA, USA
12/30/2025 6:32am

The triumps seem to have knocked it out of the park with their bikes, but the only thing is I dont see them at the local tracks. I know theyre new so it may take a while. Are you guys seeing them out and about?

1
wwdiii
Posts
2575
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
League City, TX, USA
12/30/2025 7:50am
Pop Shmoke wrote:
The triumps seem to have knocked it out of the park with their bikes, but the only thing is I dont see them at the local...

The triumps seem to have knocked it out of the park with their bikes, but the only thing is I dont see them at the local tracks. I know theyre new so it may take a while. Are you guys seeing them out and about?

As we used to say back in Oklahoma I have not seen nary a one at the Houston area tracks I ride.  But haven’t been to Rio or 3 Palms on the weekends.  I ride Ultimate in Alvin, Tx during the week, haven’t seen one but see lots of Orange and green bikes at Ultimate MX.  I do ride MX2.0 on the weekends and haven’t seen a Triumph that I recall.  If I’m not mistaken Houston has two Triumph dealers.

I’d bet the gear box rumor/issues is not helping sales.

1

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