boulder city mx shame on u

rrdecals
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Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 5:49pm
Boulder City MX- If you advertise 150% pro pay payback you don't tell riders after the race you can't afford the full amount
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TerryK
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12/4/2010 6:12pm
Did you talk to the promoter before you made these claims?
ML512
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12/4/2010 6:14pm
rrdecals wrote:
Boulder City MX- If you advertise 150% pro pay payback you don't tell riders after the race you can't afford the full amount
They didn't pay killy anything?
rrdecals
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12/4/2010 6:28pm
He was told at sign up that it was 150% payback. Entry was $100 plus- $10 for practice, $10 for gate fee and another $10 for a one day membership. Only 3 guys entered so that's $300. The 50% should have added another $150.00 so the total should $450. My son won the class and was given $150.00. All totaled up he was in it for $130.00.
Sorry that there were not more entries but he payed all his fees and came away with $20. Generally at REM or other small races it would be winner take all with only the 3 entries.

This not the only time a promoter has done this to him. We are just saying you advertise it you pay it. Simple.
TerryK
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12/4/2010 6:41pm
What I'm asking is, did anyone talk to the promoter about it to find a reason before you came on here to tell your story?

The Shop

rrdecals
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12/4/2010 6:44pm
Yes he was talked to after the race. He simply said he could not afford to pay the payout.
wkdHH
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12/4/2010 8:16pm
Promoters who don't pay don't usually last long as promoters.
D702
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12/4/2010 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 12/4/2010 8:30pm
I was out there today and your kid was hauling. That sucks about them not paying him all of his money.
D702
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12/4/2010 8:39pm
I do know that according to there website they had to change the 150% payback to 50% payback because it would, somehow, void MRAN's tax exempt status. MRAN is the organization that put on the race.
roost251
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12/4/2010 8:55pm
how do you guys like the track?? I ask because it is closer to me than the PHX area tracks.
grover738
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12/4/2010 9:03pm
Playing devil's advocate here - is it possible that they meant 150% of the entry fee? The entry fee was $100, he got $150, that's 150%. I realize you paid $130, but $10 was a membership. $10 was admission. $10 was for practice. I'm not fast enough to race for $, but for those who do - is it common for the % payback to include all expenses?

wkdHH
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12/4/2010 9:12pm
This should have been addressed at the rider's meeting. I read through the rulebook - quickly, but still - I didn't see anything addressing payouts. I DID see, though, that it looks like they overcharged on the entry fee to start with, UNLESS they had permission from MRAN.

If that's "how the hell they do it" in Nevada - no thanks!
RonSkj
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12/4/2010 9:24pm
The scum bag owes you $300. Take em to small clams court.
vegasmxer260
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12/4/2010 10:35pm
if 3 pros showed up, and each paid $100 entry, and first place got $300, and second got $150, what percentage of payback would that be?
Loose
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12/5/2010 2:16am
grover738 wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here - is it possible that they meant 150% of the entry fee? The entry fee was $100, he got $150, that's 150%...
Playing devil's advocate here - is it possible that they meant 150% of the entry fee? The entry fee was $100, he got $150, that's 150%. I realize you paid $130, but $10 was a membership. $10 was admission. $10 was for practice. I'm not fast enough to race for $, but for those who do - is it common for the % payback to include all expenses?

You could be onto something Grover......
ImTheDude
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12/5/2010 6:11am
if 3 pros showed up, and each paid $100 entry, and first place got $300, and second got $150, what percentage of payback would that be?
I think this is the way it usually works.
150% payback total, not all 150 to the winner.
am I right?
JustMX
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12/5/2010 6:25am
Holy cow...

$100 entry fee??????

the !50% usually refers to how the purse entry fees collected will be matched with any contribution by the promoter.

100% payback would mean that the riders are only racing for the total entry fees collected.

200% would mean the promoter is matching the total entry fees collected.

With 3 riders and a 150% payback there should have been $450 in the pot.

There is not really any set rule that is universal concerning how many places get paid.

$300 and $150 would certainly have been reasonable.

I don't buy the tax exempt fluff.

Sure sounds like a bait and switch.
holeshot100
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12/5/2010 7:13am
If the payback is 150%, the standard is 33% payback to the amount entries. Which means with 3 riders, 1st place receices all the money. Payback should have been $450 to the winner. They owe you $300. That is pretty much an unwritten rule.
JustMX
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12/5/2010 7:36am
If the payback is 150%, the standard is 33% payback to the amount entries. Which means with 3 riders, 1st place receices all the money. Payback...
If the payback is 150%, the standard is 33% payback to the amount entries. Which means with 3 riders, 1st place receices all the money. Payback should have been $450 to the winner. They owe you $300. That is pretty much an unwritten rule.
unwritten?

Standard?

Even the only thing detailing any kind of payout structure, the AMA Pro/AM payout, is completely different than what you suggest.

I would think that part of being a "pro" rider would be to know for sure what the "payout " is for any event one planned to participate in.

Things certainly vary from one area to another.

Unfortunately that didn't help the rider starting this thread because it appears that the promoter in the original post failed to pay the purse they advertised.

How many positions they paid doesn't really matter that much.
Cygnus
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12/5/2010 7:42am
Only three pros. This is the sad state of motocross right now.
friday10
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12/5/2010 8:01am
How much do they charge to use the bathroom?
holeshot100
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12/5/2010 8:06am
If the payback is 150%, the standard is 33% payback to the amount entries. Which means with 3 riders, 1st place receices all the money. Payback...
If the payback is 150%, the standard is 33% payback to the amount entries. Which means with 3 riders, 1st place receices all the money. Payback should have been $450 to the winner. They owe you $300. That is pretty much an unwritten rule.
JustMX wrote:
unwritten? Standard? Even the only thing detailing any kind of payout structure, the AMA Pro/AM payout, is completely different than what you suggest. I would think...
unwritten?

Standard?

Even the only thing detailing any kind of payout structure, the AMA Pro/AM payout, is completely different than what you suggest.

I would think that part of being a "pro" rider would be to know for sure what the "payout " is for any event one planned to participate in.

Things certainly vary from one area to another.

Unfortunately that didn't help the rider starting this thread because it appears that the promoter in the original post failed to pay the purse they advertised.

How many positions they paid doesn't really matter that much.
Yes that is pretty much standard and even if it is paid back to 50% of the entries{not to be confused with 150% payback}, you would need 4 entries to get 2nd place paid also. And yes I have been to several {hundred} races.
TerryK
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12/5/2010 8:14am
I honestly cant see how any promoter could pay 150% of the total pro entry pot. Dude would be bankrupt if 40 pros showed up.
Highsider
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12/5/2010 8:25am
TerryK wrote:
I honestly cant see how any promoter could pay 150% of the total pro entry pot. Dude would be bankrupt if 40 pros showed up.
Make it up on the B/C riders!Grinning
72kiteboarder
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12/5/2010 8:33am
grover738 wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here - is it possible that they meant 150% of the entry fee? The entry fee was $100, he got $150, that's 150%...
Playing devil's advocate here - is it possible that they meant 150% of the entry fee? The entry fee was $100, he got $150, that's 150%. I realize you paid $130, but $10 was a membership. $10 was admission. $10 was for practice. I'm not fast enough to race for $, but for those who do - is it common for the % payback to include all expenses?

Loose wrote:
You could be onto something Grover......
That is the way I read it too.
RonSkj
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12/5/2010 9:30am
grover738 wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here - is it possible that they meant 150% of the entry fee? The entry fee was $100, he got $150, that's 150%...
Playing devil's advocate here - is it possible that they meant 150% of the entry fee? The entry fee was $100, he got $150, that's 150%. I realize you paid $130, but $10 was a membership. $10 was admission. $10 was for practice. I'm not fast enough to race for $, but for those who do - is it common for the % payback to include all expenses?

Loose wrote:
You could be onto something Grover......
That is the way I read it too.
They were only factoring in the entry fee. They listed the other expenses to show how much the night had cost them..

Entry fee - $100..................... X 3 = $300 @ 100 % = $300
Promoter, adds $150 to make 150% of $300

Total prize pool = $450

Assuming the other 2 pro's had paid the same gate, practice and membership fees. The promoter was only out $60. If they can't keep there word over $60, they shouldn't be in business..
vegasmxer260
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12/5/2010 10:00am
this is crazy! 150% was paid back! i am really not sure who he talked to at the race, but I am the promoter and this thread was the first i had heard of any problem. 5 weeks ago, the sanctioning body MRAN - told us we could only payout 50% - which was changed on the website - www.bcmxgp.com - and i still told the girls at signups to pay 150% anyway! i am not sure who the "he" is that was referred to earlier, but it wasn't me and if someone told you that they were in the wrong.

$100 for a PRO entry is not a big deal, and to everyone who is talking about that cost, i don't think you fully understand the reasoning, or how pro payback works. Average pro payback at a local race is 100%. if the entry fee would have been $30 - with 3 riders, this race would have come out to a whopping $90 PURSE. not a large sum of money.

Something else you are neglecting to address, is that when we payback over 100%, the higher the entry fee, the greater the cost to the organization putting the race on! if my intention was really to rip someone off, why would I want a higher entry fee? when you sign up in the pro class for $100 and the payback is 150% - i do not make $100, I instantly LOSE $50.

the 33% rule is standard in trophies, but not in a cash paying pro class. a payback that pays out more than 1/3, is more appealing to a rider because he has a higher chance of making his money back. The $100 entry fee makes you actually put something on the line and paying back more than 33% is comforting for out of state/town riders. I can just imagine this same post, if they would have gotten second, and all $450 went to the winner - about them driving so far and paying $100 and not getting any of the purse and they should have at least gotten $50 and so on and so forth....

this is all bizarre to me - two weeks ago we paid $10,000 OUT OF OUR POCKET for the supercross race and now we get all of this over $450? like its going to make or break us and now we shouldnt be in business?

And about all these unreasonable "extra costs" and the guy who asked how much to use th bathroom? - $10 membership went straight to MRAN, your "practice fee" was for a second class, and a $10 gate fee is standard. I didn't hear any complaints about coming in on the asphalt road, parking inside the fence, using the lights at night, hooking your RV up to the water and power, etc etc etc.

anyhow, bottom line is 150% was paid out - $300 to you, and $150 to second. and while we are talking about percentages, i think this was 100% completely the wrong way to go about solving your problem - claiming you talked to the promoter who has never spoken a word to you and badmouthing a facility that lost money on you racing? if there are any discrepancies with that, or if the girls at signups paid you out wrong - email me and i will get it fixed -bryce@bouldercitymotocross.com

THANKS

friday10
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12/5/2010 10:11am
His post said that he was only paid $150.00 ? So, he was paid $300.00, sounds like a non issue to me.
72kiteboarder
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12/5/2010 10:11am
this is crazy! 150% was paid back! i am really not sure who he talked to at the race, but I am the promoter and this...
this is crazy! 150% was paid back! i am really not sure who he talked to at the race, but I am the promoter and this thread was the first i had heard of any problem. 5 weeks ago, the sanctioning body MRAN - told us we could only payout 50% - which was changed on the website - www.bcmxgp.com - and i still told the girls at signups to pay 150% anyway! i am not sure who the "he" is that was referred to earlier, but it wasn't me and if someone told you that they were in the wrong.

$100 for a PRO entry is not a big deal, and to everyone who is talking about that cost, i don't think you fully understand the reasoning, or how pro payback works. Average pro payback at a local race is 100%. if the entry fee would have been $30 - with 3 riders, this race would have come out to a whopping $90 PURSE. not a large sum of money.

Something else you are neglecting to address, is that when we payback over 100%, the higher the entry fee, the greater the cost to the organization putting the race on! if my intention was really to rip someone off, why would I want a higher entry fee? when you sign up in the pro class for $100 and the payback is 150% - i do not make $100, I instantly LOSE $50.

the 33% rule is standard in trophies, but not in a cash paying pro class. a payback that pays out more than 1/3, is more appealing to a rider because he has a higher chance of making his money back. The $100 entry fee makes you actually put something on the line and paying back more than 33% is comforting for out of state/town riders. I can just imagine this same post, if they would have gotten second, and all $450 went to the winner - about them driving so far and paying $100 and not getting any of the purse and they should have at least gotten $50 and so on and so forth....

this is all bizarre to me - two weeks ago we paid $10,000 OUT OF OUR POCKET for the supercross race and now we get all of this over $450? like its going to make or break us and now we shouldnt be in business?

And about all these unreasonable "extra costs" and the guy who asked how much to use th bathroom? - $10 membership went straight to MRAN, your "practice fee" was for a second class, and a $10 gate fee is standard. I didn't hear any complaints about coming in on the asphalt road, parking inside the fence, using the lights at night, hooking your RV up to the water and power, etc etc etc.

anyhow, bottom line is 150% was paid out - $300 to you, and $150 to second. and while we are talking about percentages, i think this was 100% completely the wrong way to go about solving your problem - claiming you talked to the promoter who has never spoken a word to you and badmouthing a facility that lost money on you racing? if there are any discrepancies with that, or if the girls at signups paid you out wrong - email me and i will get it fixed -bryce@bouldercitymotocross.com

THANKS

He said he Won the race but only recieved $150. Did he get second or are you wrong?
RonSkj
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12/5/2010 10:17am
So, Looks like the girl doing the pay-outs, pocketed $150..Wink

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