Private club/track legal protection

motomojo wrote:

First thing to understand is there are two types of law in the U.S. law of the land ( lawful statutes of the state) and law...

First thing to understand is there are two types of law in the U.S. law of the land ( lawful statutes of the state) and law of the sea ( The legal system or law of commerce UCC).

If you want to bypass any litagation then follow your states statutes for public use of private land for recreational purposes. If you run your track in this manner no litigation can be brought against you.

The tricky part is fees. To abide by the law of the land you cannot charge a fee to those riding as that creates a contract and automaticly lands you in the legal system.

I have a private track in AZ and have operated since 2014 with no issues. I do not charge a fee my track is free to ride however i can accept donations so thats my deal.

I get screwed at times as there are folks that take advantage of that to get a free ride, but most are honest folks and will donate what it would cost them to ride at a public track, sometimes more as riding a private track is far better than any public track.

Folks think waivers will give them protection ha! It is just a way to prove the rider was actually at your track and make litagation against you much easier. You don't want to have anyone sign anything.

Hope this helps.

 

Johnnygunn wrote:

So I dug into the public use of land thing..Apparently, the Recreational Land Use Act protects land owners from pretty much all liability except extreme negligence...

So I dug into the public use of land thing..

Apparently, the Recreational Land Use Act protects land owners from pretty much all liability except extreme negligence and wanton endangerment, in the event someone is using your land for ANY recreational activity, so long as you don't charge a fee (like you said).

Only thing I can't really find on it is what circumstances you can turn people away or kick them off your property.. but I'm liking this avenue!! And apparently land owners in more conservative states are safer under this act than people in more liberal states. Indiana ought to be fine lol

Johnnygunn wrote:

I'd be very interested in a non profit.. From what I've read the person running it can be "compensated" for their work in it. Also, members only...

I'd be very interested in a non profit.. 

From what I've read the person running it can be "compensated" for their work in it. Also, members only sounds amazing!! That's the ultimate goal. But, does it require a massive yearly insurance policy? What is liability like? 

That's my hang up.. finances. Im starting this all on my own. Nobody gave me anything.. my dad didn't gift me land or equipment or money.. I didn't buy my property in 1967 for 12 bucks an acre.. im doing it the hard way lol 

Johnnygunn wrote:

I'd be very interested in a non profit.. From what I've read the person running it can be "compensated" for their work in it. Also, members only...

I'd be very interested in a non profit.. 

From what I've read the person running it can be "compensated" for their work in it. Also, members only sounds amazing!! That's the ultimate goal. But, does it require a massive yearly insurance policy? What is liability like? 

That's my hang up.. finances. Im starting this all on my own. Nobody gave me anything.. my dad didn't gift me land or equipment or money.. I didn't buy my property in 1967 for 12 bucks an acre.. im doing it the hard way lol 

motomojo wrote:

That could be the way to go as you are probably much closer to population than I. I'm not sure what would be needed to do...

That could be the way to go as you are probably much closer to population than I. I'm not sure what would be needed to do that as i never looked into forming a club, others in the thread seem to have good info on those options so i would tap them for more info. 

I'm 2 hours or more from any major city Vegas, Phoenix etc... most riders i get are WORCS off-road racers from Lake Havasu which is still an hour and a half. I'm too far in out the boonies to try to do a club type thing and it limits the rider count significantly but i'm cool with that as i don't want to have big turnouts.

I can make the donation work as i don't care about making any money from the track plus the donations i get wouldn't allow one to live Ha! but it does take care of tractor fuel and parts that will break and wear out and thats all i care about not having to pay for all that out of pocket. 

With no experience at track building i went out and just allowed the terrain to choose the direction picking routes that didn't require removing trees or much dirt. I was just wanting a nice little loop i could go ride but as i kept going it got better and better and i figured hey i don't know what i am doing but this is starting to look real, lets see just how good i can make it. Finished the loop by the end of 2014 but it was a bit narrow like a wide single-track but fun to ride flowed well. At that point i started thinking folks may like to ride and that led me to research the Recreational land use stuff.

I contacted a Pro track builder in Prescott AZ to see what it would cost for him to widen what i had and add some jumps He came out and was quite impressed with what i had done but wanted 40k to finish it. Well i'm just a poor boy that ain't got that kind of money so i declined.

I bought an old 68 John Deere dozer from a place in Colorado in 2015 for 9k and used it to widen to about 18ft had it all done except for a few places where manmade jumps were needed by Nov 2015. Not having any experience with building a track much less jumps i called the track builder again to see if he would come out and make them all. He came out and spent a week fixing em up for 5k.

I had to do a lot more work but i have more time being retired than money so i don't mind, it's my gym and i actually treat it like an art project. I'm down working on it 3 hours a day Mon - Fri.

I always pondered from even high school that someday to retire buy some land in the mountains somewhere and build some sort of track or trails and a recording studio and spend my final days doing the two things i have enjoyed most in life. I have to pinch myself at times to realize i've been living that dream for 10 years now. I did it the hard way and am very pleased with the results so press on young man you will appreciate it much more doing it that way. I spent 32k for a 40 acre ranch in 2004 and moved full time to the ranch in 2008 retired at 51 in 2009 and enjoying my old man years immensely.

 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

I'm finding myself enjoying the process of working on , building , modifying and maintaining the trails/track I have been building MORE than riding or driving...

I'm finding myself enjoying the process of working on , building , modifying and maintaining the trails/track I have been building MORE than riding or driving them. I started to take video and I'll put on Youtube  someday when I have time to edit it ,  if it can be somewhat  interesting. Its hard to film by myself while also cutting trees, etc moving dirt over a distance, etc.   I have footage from the start of some sections. Raw tree filled land , and now those sections vary between 8 and 20 feet wide.  I have been recording and taking still photos of progress for myself . But I find the video making fun too .  

 

When I started to layout the first trails I found as many satellite and aerial images of the area as possible. Current and as old as possible. I also found elevation/contour maps for the area to help me find some hills.  Older images can help avoid longer term flooding, I wanted to see if trails, roads, etc existed before and I found an old stone bridge that is a part of the loop. I have a stone and concrete pad that I think was where an Ice House was at one point. Its at the end of a pine grove and I've been saving pine logs , planning on making a cabin at some point. Hopefully when my nephews visit we can get started on it. It will be more of a fort than a legit cabin. But its close to the river and could be a fun project .   

 

I'm doing more of a rally style setup. Some jumps mixed in and suitable for a MX bike , SXS, MTB, even a jeep.  I've got a main loop worked in now and have started to add some singletrack for mtb's. I've followed some deer trails. And try and avoid any larger trees.  I want to keep tree cover to keep dust and noise down.  I've been using a mix of equipment. A Deere 333G CTL, a Yanmar vio25 , and a Doosan DX50 excavator with  angle blade.  My favorite tool has been the Doosan excavator. I would love a  full on 6 way blade. It would be like a mini dozer.  It is small enough that I can still make stuff  for bikes and not have an 8 foot wide section.  I start out with a 6' or so wide trail and  after driving and riding it a little I widen it up where it feels like it should be . And I'm letting the trails develop themselves. So far I have about a mile of trail I can drive my SXS on. I still have some spots to widen up. I want it all to be 12' wide minimum. Would love to have it so I can have 2 SXS's safely passing each other and jumping side by side.  MTB trails  have been a lot of fun to build. I only have about 10' of elevation from the highest spot to the lowest spot.  So its very flat too. 

  Right now its only me using them. I'm not sure how I will deal with people wanting to use them. I would love to be able to share  with other people. But I worry about things happening. I'll look into some of the suggestions on here . If I can avoid liability by just letting some friends ride for free, that's not bad.  What if I  required some help with building or maintaining the track/trails? Would that be the same as them paying to ride?  Perhaps voluntary help instead? And allow more chances to ride for the people who help? 

 

 I think I'll make a watering trailer at some point. For now , the dust settles quick enough that its not a problem by myself. 

 

 Some of the properties that people have on here are amazing. I hope to someday buy a mountain, or large farm and be able to have a family compound with houses for any family who want to join. For now , I'm happy to have what I have , and very thankful.   

The real Sasquatch wrote:

I'm finding myself enjoying the process of working on , building , modifying and maintaining the trails/track I have been building MORE than riding or driving...

I'm finding myself enjoying the process of working on , building , modifying and maintaining the trails/track I have been building MORE than riding or driving them. I started to take video and I'll put on Youtube  someday when I have time to edit it ,  if it can be somewhat  interesting. Its hard to film by myself while also cutting trees, etc moving dirt over a distance, etc.   I have footage from the start of some sections. Raw tree filled land , and now those sections vary between 8 and 20 feet wide.  I have been recording and taking still photos of progress for myself . But I find the video making fun too .  

 

When I started to layout the first trails I found as many satellite and aerial images of the area as possible. Current and as old as possible. I also found elevation/contour maps for the area to help me find some hills.  Older images can help avoid longer term flooding, I wanted to see if trails, roads, etc existed before and I found an old stone bridge that is a part of the loop. I have a stone and concrete pad that I think was where an Ice House was at one point. Its at the end of a pine grove and I've been saving pine logs , planning on making a cabin at some point. Hopefully when my nephews visit we can get started on it. It will be more of a fort than a legit cabin. But its close to the river and could be a fun project .   

 

I'm doing more of a rally style setup. Some jumps mixed in and suitable for a MX bike , SXS, MTB, even a jeep.  I've got a main loop worked in now and have started to add some singletrack for mtb's. I've followed some deer trails. And try and avoid any larger trees.  I want to keep tree cover to keep dust and noise down.  I've been using a mix of equipment. A Deere 333G CTL, a Yanmar vio25 , and a Doosan DX50 excavator with  angle blade.  My favorite tool has been the Doosan excavator. I would love a  full on 6 way blade. It would be like a mini dozer.  It is small enough that I can still make stuff  for bikes and not have an 8 foot wide section.  I start out with a 6' or so wide trail and  after driving and riding it a little I widen it up where it feels like it should be . And I'm letting the trails develop themselves. So far I have about a mile of trail I can drive my SXS on. I still have some spots to widen up. I want it all to be 12' wide minimum. Would love to have it so I can have 2 SXS's safely passing each other and jumping side by side.  MTB trails  have been a lot of fun to build. I only have about 10' of elevation from the highest spot to the lowest spot.  So its very flat too. 

  Right now its only me using them. I'm not sure how I will deal with people wanting to use them. I would love to be able to share  with other people. But I worry about things happening. I'll look into some of the suggestions on here . If I can avoid liability by just letting some friends ride for free, that's not bad.  What if I  required some help with building or maintaining the track/trails? Would that be the same as them paying to ride?  Perhaps voluntary help instead? And allow more chances to ride for the people who help? 

 

 I think I'll make a watering trailer at some point. For now , the dust settles quick enough that its not a problem by myself. 

 

 Some of the properties that people have on here are amazing. I hope to someday buy a mountain, or large farm and be able to have a family compound with houses for any family who want to join. For now , I'm happy to have what I have , and very thankful.   

motomojo wrote:

Thats awesome!! Sounds like you are into it. I too enjoy working on the track and probably have more laps walking and tractoring than riding though...

Thats awesome!! Sounds like you are into it. I too enjoy working on the track and probably have more laps walking and tractoring than riding though trying to catch up on that.

I have loads of pics and video of the entire build but it's tough to work and take pics/video at the same time so it's not organized well. I look at them now and wonder how the hell did i do all this, some rough looking stuff ha!

On donations i have had several folks come out and donate time helping me work it but i'm so far away from towns it's rare. Being 67 years old i actually would rather have the help than the cash.

I gave up on watering as the track covers about 30 of my 40 acres and with the steep hills i would need not only two water trucks but some sprinklers or a firehose system for the hills to be able to water the whole track in a timely manner so i do a lot of rain danceing lol.  My main riders are WORCS off road racers who don't care if it's watered so it works. no pun intended.

Just got a nice monsoon storm today so the weekend will be a hoot.

The real Sasquatch wrote:

WOW that sounds  amazing.  I only have about a mile and a half of trails. All packed into a small area.  The main loop is about...

WOW that sounds  amazing.  I only have about a mile and a half of trails. All packed into a small area.  The main loop is about a mile long. And then the other stuff is narrow MTB stuff.  

I have the same problem with the video being un organized and the photos are spread out  in my phones and mix of hard drives.  At first I was building the trails/track and only taking the videos and photos to have memories. But then I started to watch and look at other peoples videos and photos of track and trail building and have started to get a little more organized in how I am recording and taking photos. Trying to tell the story of how and why I am doin the stuff how I am doing it . But between owning my own biz, helping my 80 year old mother out that has had some health issues on and off, I sometimes do not have great conditions to film or photograph. Some of the trail was roughed in late at night in the dark in a mini excavator. I was out there until midnight one night. And I never prioritize the video part. But I enjoy taking videos and photos and editing them too so I figured I would make my own story of building trails /tracks. 

 

I'm kind of surprised how so many place a re able to be kept secret . I've found so many private tracks using google earth. 

 

Johnnygunn wrote:

That's pretty awesome.. very different from my spot lol (here is the entrance).

That's pretty awesome.. very different from my spot lol (here is the entrance).

The real Sasquatch wrote:

WOW that sounds  amazing.  I only have about a mile and a half of trails. All packed into a small area.  The main loop is about...

WOW that sounds  amazing.  I only have about a mile and a half of trails. All packed into a small area.  The main loop is about a mile long. And then the other stuff is narrow MTB stuff.  

I have the same problem with the video being un organized and the photos are spread out  in my phones and mix of hard drives.  At first I was building the trails/track and only taking the videos and photos to have memories. But then I started to watch and look at other peoples videos and photos of track and trail building and have started to get a little more organized in how I am recording and taking photos. Trying to tell the story of how and why I am doin the stuff how I am doing it . But between owning my own biz, helping my 80 year old mother out that has had some health issues on and off, I sometimes do not have great conditions to film or photograph. Some of the trail was roughed in late at night in the dark in a mini excavator. I was out there until midnight one night. And I never prioritize the video part. But I enjoy taking videos and photos and editing them too so I figured I would make my own story of building trails /tracks. 

 

I'm kind of surprised how so many place a re able to be kept secret . I've found so many private tracks using google earth. 

 

motomojo wrote:

Yeah i went a bit nuts once i got going.I've edited some footage together to make an okay build video and have put together a couple...

Yeah i went a bit nuts once i got going.

I've edited some footage together to make an okay build video and have put together a couple music video type videos of some of the WORCS faster guys but have never posted any of it though i just remembered some of the havasu boys posted a short video a few months ago they shot.  https://youtu.be/my7hs0ALoHA?si=pRctwriWEOQpomeZ

I feel ya on the caregiver job. My mom was diagnosed with dementia in 2009 so i retired from the road and built her a small cottage and took care of her till her passing in 2018. The most rewarding thing i have ever done. Building the track 3 hours every morning from 6am to 9am before she was awake was my keep myself sane time.

I have had folks come inquire about riding that found my track just looking on google earth.

 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

WOW that sounds  amazing.  I only have about a mile and a half of trails. All packed into a small area.  The main loop is about...

WOW that sounds  amazing.  I only have about a mile and a half of trails. All packed into a small area.  The main loop is about a mile long. And then the other stuff is narrow MTB stuff.  

I have the same problem with the video being un organized and the photos are spread out  in my phones and mix of hard drives.  At first I was building the trails/track and only taking the videos and photos to have memories. But then I started to watch and look at other peoples videos and photos of track and trail building and have started to get a little more organized in how I am recording and taking photos. Trying to tell the story of how and why I am doin the stuff how I am doing it . But between owning my own biz, helping my 80 year old mother out that has had some health issues on and off, I sometimes do not have great conditions to film or photograph. Some of the trail was roughed in late at night in the dark in a mini excavator. I was out there until midnight one night. And I never prioritize the video part. But I enjoy taking videos and photos and editing them too so I figured I would make my own story of building trails /tracks. 

 

I'm kind of surprised how so many place a re able to be kept secret . I've found so many private tracks using google earth. 

 

motomojo wrote:

Yeah i went a bit nuts once i got going.I've edited some footage together to make an okay build video and have put together a couple...

Yeah i went a bit nuts once i got going.

I've edited some footage together to make an okay build video and have put together a couple music video type videos of some of the WORCS faster guys but have never posted any of it though i just remembered some of the havasu boys posted a short video a few months ago they shot.  https://youtu.be/my7hs0ALoHA?si=pRctwriWEOQpomeZ

I feel ya on the caregiver job. My mom was diagnosed with dementia in 2009 so i retired from the road and built her a small cottage and took care of her till her passing in 2018. The most rewarding thing i have ever done. Building the track 3 hours every morning from 6am to 9am before she was awake was my keep myself sane time.

I have had folks come inquire about riding that found my track just looking on google earth.

 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

That looks like an amazing track. Nice natural layout.  I'm jealous of the amount of land and the hills You have!   My land is old...

That looks like an amazing track. Nice natural layout.  I'm jealous of the amount of land and the hills You have!   My land is old farmland and insanely fertile. So I have to spend more time cutting brush ,vines and trees than moving dirt. I have really nice , loam that holds water. But it gets super hardpack for  the North East.  I have wild grapes and berries . In the fall it smells like wine.

 I can see why You don't water it. That type of dirt would just soak up as much water as You could put down.  That is a slice of heaven !  It would be really cool to see video of the build process.  How long is the track ?  lap time and miles? 

Thanks a lot for sharing.