An about face on Global Warming - From the Scientist

crashomatic
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 3:54pm
http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Scientists+pull+about+face+global…

Scientists pull an about face on global warming


By Lorne Gunter, For The Calgary HeraldSeptember 19, 2009Comments (38)

Imagine if Pope Benedict gave a speech saying the Catholic Church has had it wrong all these centuries; there is no reason priests shouldn't marry. That might generate the odd headline, no?

Or if Don Cherry claimed suddenly to like European hockey players who wear visors and float around the ice, never bodychecking opponents.

Or Jack Layton insisted that unions are ruining the economy by distorting wages and protecting unproductive workers.

Or Stephen Harper began arguing that it makes good economic sense for Ottawa to own a car company. (Oh, wait, that one happened.) But at least, the Tories-buy-GM aberration made all the papers and newscasts.

When a leading proponent for one point of view suddenly starts batting for the other side, it's usually newsworthy.

So why was a speech last week by Prof. Mojib Latif of Germany's Leibniz Institute not given more prominence?

Latif is one of the leading climate modellers in the world. He is the recipient of several international climate-study prizes and a lead author for the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). He has contributed significantly to the IPCC's last two five-year reports that have stated unequivocally that man-made greenhouse emissions are causing the planet to warm dangerously.

Yet last week in Geneva, at the UN's World Climate Conference--an annual gathering of the so-called "scientific consensus" on man-made climate change --Latif conceded the Earth has not warmed for nearly a decade and that we are likely entering "one or even two decades during which temperatures cool."

The global warming theory has been based all along on the idea that the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans would absorb much of the greenhouse warming caused by a rise in man-made carbon dioxide, then they would let off that heat and warm the atmosphere and the land.

But as Latif pointed out, the Atlantic, and particularly the North Atlantic, has been cooling instead. And it looks set to continue a cooling phase for 10 to 20 more years.

"How much?" he wondered before the assembled delegates. "The jury is still out."

But it is increasingly clear that global warming is on hiatus for the time being. And that is not what the UN, the alarmist scientists or environmentalists predicted. For the past dozen years, since the Kyoto accords were signed in 1997, it has been beaten into our heads with the force and repetition of the rowing drum on a slave galley that the Earth is warming and will continue to warm rapidly through this century until we reach deadly temperatures around 2100.

While they deny it now, the facts to the contrary are staring them in the face: None of the alarmist drummers ever predicted anything like a 30-year pause in their apocalyptic scenario.

Latif says he expects warming to resume in 2020 or 2030.

In the past year, two other groups of scientists--one in Germany, the second in the United States--have come to the same conclusion: Warming is on hold, likely because of a cooling of the Earth's upper oceans, but it will resume.

But how is that knowable? How can Latif and the others state with certainty that after this long and unforeseen cooling, dangerous man-made heating will resume? They failed to observe the current cooling for years after it had begun, how then can their predictions for the resumption of dangerous warming be trusted?

My point is they cannot. It's true the supercomputer models Latif and other modellers rely on for their dire predictions are becoming more accurate. But getting the future correct is far trickier. Chances are some unforeseen future changes will throw the current predictions out of whack long before the forecast resumption of warming.

Lorne Gunter is a columnist with the Edmonton Journal and National Post.

© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald
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SteveS
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9/22/2009 6:14am
Should we have a betting pool on how long it takes Nerd to rebut this?
Cygnus
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9/22/2009 6:21am
I am no scientist, but I am freezing my ass off as we speak. I had to have a fire to warm up the house yesterday. Looks like I might have another today.
crashomatic
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9/22/2009 6:21am
What time does he usually get up?
super rat
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9/22/2009 6:26am
The debate is over!


Hey wait a second,.. has anyone ever seen a debate on global warming?


Someone, quick, give Fat Al another Nobel Peace Prize!

The Shop

huck
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9/22/2009 6:32am
Global Warming is so 2005...It's ALL about "Climate Change" now.
jmar
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9/22/2009 6:39am
huck wrote:
Global Warming is so 2005...It's ALL about "Climate Change" now.
And they will get there money from this farce one way or another.
Crash82
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9/22/2009 6:42am
Healthcare is the new global warming.
DirtyFilter75
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9/22/2009 6:47am


I feel like going green. just sayin'
txmxer
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9/22/2009 6:49am
super rat wrote:
The debate is over!


Hey wait a second,.. has anyone ever seen a debate on global warming?


Someone, quick, give Fat Al another Nobel Peace Prize!
true.
88sdad
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9/22/2009 6:51am
My son was driving through Cheyenne, Wyoming yesterday on his way to Toronto,
and said the snow was sticking on the side of I-80.
txmxer
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9/22/2009 8:52am
I would not try to argue whether the globe is warming (or has warmed)...I wouldn't argue that man has can effect the environment, even on a global scale.

What this article clearly shows is that it's not "settled science". There's a butt load of things we don't know about the climate. More importantly, it proves how truly inadequate the models are that are in place.
jmar
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9/22/2009 8:59am
txmxer wrote:
I would not try to argue whether the globe is warming (or has warmed)...I wouldn't argue that man has can effect the environment, even on a...
I would not try to argue whether the globe is warming (or has warmed)...I wouldn't argue that man has can effect the environment, even on a global scale.

What this article clearly shows is that it's not "settled science". There's a butt load of things we don't know about the climate. More importantly, it proves how truly inadequate the models are that are in place.
And it also shows that science has fallen prey to power, politics and money.
indy_maico
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9/22/2009 9:11am
The bottom line is, are we better off polluting the air or not?

Would we be doing harm to the planet by cutting down emissions, or would it be better off for it?

SteveS
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9/22/2009 9:13am
Cutting down emissions of what becomes the question.

And then is it right to create a whole new market for rich fatcats to gamble in?
Dean
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9/22/2009 9:40am
txmxer wrote:
I would not try to argue whether the globe is warming (or has warmed)...I wouldn't argue that man has can effect the environment, even on a...
I would not try to argue whether the globe is warming (or has warmed)...I wouldn't argue that man has can effect the environment, even on a global scale.

What this article clearly shows is that it's not "settled science". There's a butt load of things we don't know about the climate. More importantly, it proves how truly inadequate the models are that are in place.
jmar wrote:
And it also shows that science has fallen prey to power, politics and money.
all the way back to Galileo Galilei ( at least)
txmxer
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9/22/2009 9:43am
indy_maico wrote:
The bottom line is, are we better off polluting the air or not? Would we be doing harm to the planet by cutting down emissions, or...
The bottom line is, are we better off polluting the air or not?

Would we be doing harm to the planet by cutting down emissions, or would it be better off for it?

not even part of the discussion. Pollutants are bad.

Is CO2 a pollutant?
09450f
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9/22/2009 10:17am
indy_maico wrote:
The bottom line is, are we better off polluting the air or not? Would we be doing harm to the planet by cutting down emissions, or...
The bottom line is, are we better off polluting the air or not?

Would we be doing harm to the planet by cutting down emissions, or would it be better off for it?

yes,cut down on emissions

whats funny..is humans think we are so smart..then why do we pollute the air we breath ??
Void Main
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9/22/2009 10:21am
What's next, scientists will admit there is a God?
Dean
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9/22/2009 10:29am
indy_maico wrote:
The bottom line is, are we better off polluting the air or not? Would we be doing harm to the planet by cutting down emissions, or...
The bottom line is, are we better off polluting the air or not?

Would we be doing harm to the planet by cutting down emissions, or would it be better off for it?

09450f wrote:
yes,cut down on emissions

whats funny..is humans think we are so smart..then why do we pollute the air we breath ??
.is humans think we are so smart


Who is this "we" species you belong to?
Kinetic1
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9/22/2009 10:37am
Void Main wrote:
What's next, scientists will admit there is a God?
What's funny about this is that there are several scientist who believe in a God of some sort and that there has to be a God because there is order in things. My wife was telling me about it last night. Something about they are dtermining the order of things is too perfect to be an accident.
txmxer
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9/22/2009 10:55am
Void Main wrote:
What's next, scientists will admit there is a God?
Kinetic1 wrote:
What's funny about this is that there are several scientist who believe in a God of some sort and that there has to be a God...
What's funny about this is that there are several scientist who believe in a God of some sort and that there has to be a God because there is order in things. My wife was telling me about it last night. Something about they are dtermining the order of things is too perfect to be an accident.
people have been making up reasons why there has to be a god for ever.

There is no, nor can there be scientific proof of the existence of a god unless that god decided to appear here on earth and show us that he exists.

The "scientist" that are coming up with those theories are just as faulty as the ones that believe in intelligent design.
Lilith
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9/22/2009 11:23am
09450f wrote:
yes,cut down on emissions

whats funny..is humans think we are so smart..then why do we pollute the air we breath ??
Money
Nerd
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9/22/2009 11:26am
Funny how science doesn't work and scientists are wrong until they agree with YOU.

HA!

In the past year, two other groups of scientists--one in Germany, the second in the United States--have come to the same conclusion: Warming is on hold, likely because of a cooling of the Earth's upper oceans, but it will resume.

Here's what he actually said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojib_Latif

Read that. He's saying that just because things cool in the next 20 years, potentially, people will say that Global Warming isn't caused by man, and the reality is that we need to be vigilant about it because this may just be a window to get a handle on it before it gets a lot worse.

However, it should also be noted that he is NOT a Climatologist. He is a Meteorologist. Meteorologists are about the weather RIGHT NOW. Climatologists study the weather over long periods of time.

97% of climatologists say that global warming is happening in part because of people.

And on top of that, this guy isn't contradicting that!
09450f
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9/22/2009 11:28am
at 80 million barrels a day..for sure we are helping to heat the earth.. i wonder what we will run out of first..clean air or oil ??
Nerd
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9/22/2009 11:35am
Void Main wrote:
What's next, scientists will admit there is a God?
Kinetic1 wrote:
What's funny about this is that there are several scientist who believe in a God of some sort and that there has to be a God...
What's funny about this is that there are several scientist who believe in a God of some sort and that there has to be a God because there is order in things. My wife was telling me about it last night. Something about they are dtermining the order of things is too perfect to be an accident.
That's true, but the higher you go in education as a whole, the lower the percentage of religious people. And with scientists, it's true many do believe in god, and that has nothing to do with their science - unless they let it.

For example, Francis Collins, one of the principal scientists in the Human Genome Project that mapped all of the lines of code in the human genome. He's an evangelical Christian.

But having seen the evidence, he also says that evolution is a fact. So he doesn't let his religion get in the way of his science. That's not the case with all of them. For example, Michael Behe.

http://www.physorg.com/news102700045.html

Almost 52 percent of scientists surveyed identified themselves as having no current religious affiliation compared with only 14 percent of the general population.

And while nearly 14 percent of the U.S. population who responded to the GSS describe themselves as "evangelical" or "fundamentalist," less than 2 percent of the RAAS population identifies with either label.

The only traditional religious identity category where the RAAS population has a much higher proportion of religious adherents than the general population is among those who identify as Jewish -- 15 percent compared to 2 percent of the general population.
txmxer
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9/22/2009 1:02pm
Nerd wrote:
Funny how science doesn't work and scientists are wrong until they agree with YOU. HA! [b]In the past year, two other groups of scientists--one in Germany...
Funny how science doesn't work and scientists are wrong until they agree with YOU.

HA!

In the past year, two other groups of scientists--one in Germany, the second in the United States--have come to the same conclusion: Warming is on hold, likely because of a cooling of the Earth's upper oceans, but it will resume.

Here's what he actually said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojib_Latif

Read that. He's saying that just because things cool in the next 20 years, potentially, people will say that Global Warming isn't caused by man, and the reality is that we need to be vigilant about it because this may just be a window to get a handle on it before it gets a lot worse.

However, it should also be noted that he is NOT a Climatologist. He is a Meteorologist. Meteorologists are about the weather RIGHT NOW. Climatologists study the weather over long periods of time.

97% of climatologists say that global warming is happening in part because of people.

And on top of that, this guy isn't contradicting that!
what's your point?

That the predictions are in flux...that the man made driver isn't nearly as significant as was though? i.e., the earth's natural cycles are much stronger than was thought? We've been in a cooling trend for a decade and they are just now coming up with a concept of why?

Point is...not settled science. There is no doubt that our existence (along with every other living thing) has an effect on the environment. How much of an effect is in question as is the ultimate direction of the climate as a whole.
jonjon714
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9/22/2009 1:50pm
Newsweek - April 28, 1975

THE COOLING WORLD

There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production – with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and the U.S.S.R. in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon.

The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it. In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant overall loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually. During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen by a fraction of a degree – a fraction that in some areas can mean drought and desolation. Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars’ worth of damage in 13 U.S. states.

To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world’s weather. The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth’s climate seems to be cooling down. Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the cooling trend, as well as over its specific impact on local weather conditions. But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century. If the climatic change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic. “A major climatic change would force economic and social adjustments on a worldwide scale,” warns a recent report by the National Academy of Sciences, “because the global patterns of food production and population that have evolved are implicitly dependent on the climate of the present century.”

A survey completed last year by Dr. Murray Mitchell of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reveals a drop of half a degree in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. According to George Kukla of Columbia University, satellite photos indicated a sudden, large increase in Northern Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 1971-72. And a study released last month by two NOAA scientists notes that the amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.3% between 1964 and 1972.

To the layman, the relatively small changes in temperature and sunshine can be highly misleading. Reid Bryson of the University of Wisconsin points out that the Earth’s average temperature during the great Ice Ages was only about seven degrees lower than during its warmest eras – and that the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age average. Others regard the cooling as a reversion to the “little ice age” conditions that brought bitter winters to much of Europe and northern America between 1600 and 1900 – years when the Thames used to freeze so solidly that Londoners roasted oxen on the ice and when iceboats sailed the Hudson River almost as far south as New York City.

Just what causes the onset of major and minor ice ages remains a mystery. “Our knowledge of the mechanisms of climatic change is at least as fragmentary as our data,” concedes the National Academy of Sciences report. “Not only are the basic scientific questions largely unanswered, but in many cases we do not yet know enough to pose the key questions.”

Meteorologists think that they can forecast the short-term results of the return to the norm of the last century. They begin by noting the slight drop in overall temperature that produces large numbers of pressure centers in the upper atmosphere. These break up the smooth flow of westerly winds over temperate areas. The stagnant air produced in this way causes an increase in extremes of local weather such as droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons and even local temperature increases – all of which have a direct impact on food supplies.

“The world’s food-producing system,” warns Dr. James D. McQuigg of NOAA’s Center for Climatic and Environmental Assessment, “is much more sensitive to the weather variable than it was even five years ago.” Furthermore, the growth of world population and creation of new national boundaries make it impossible for starving peoples to migrate from their devastated fields, as they did during past famines.

Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.

jonjon714
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9/22/2009 1:51pm
Oh, yeah, forgot... THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09450f
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9/22/2009 2:05pm
sun spot activity is down..thats why we haven't had 1 degree in temperature change in 10 years

sun spots come and go

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