The Premier class ...

all on the same bike isn't a horrible idea. but i think you will still see a couple guys separate themselves from everyone else.

and i agree, that was a great race. Chad came from a LOOONG way back in second to catch davi. very exciting when he got to his rear wheel.

Fast 250 times don't automatically mean fast 450 times.

Just make the 250 class a true support class...limit salaries, force people to move up (sooner than they do now), limit team sizes (why in the world does PC kawi need that many riders on the gate?), and any number of other rules will get folks out of the 250 class into the premier 450 class.

If you get the premier talent to the premier class-sooner, the better off the premier class (and the sport) will be.

and don't give me that "these young kids aren't ready for a 450" garbage...most have ridden the 450 as amatures, and for heavens sake they're professional dirt bike riders...they'll adjust. (but the minimum age requirement going up might solve that problem).

I like the idea of 2 classes

amateurs and pros

If you're ready to go pro, you have to race the best guys.

Although the Institute will release the complete (lengthy) Professional Motocross 5 Year Plan

any day now, here are a couple excerpts to keep people from continually bugging me.

And yes, I started an mx-parts - tree at Briarcliff. I had to.

BELOW - Selected Excerpts From Pages 4 & 5


SAFETY:
Neck Braces – Since there appears to be solid medical evidence that these devices could potentially prevent injury, they should be mandated to be worn by all professional riders, effective immediately.

Flaggers – Increasing the quantity and quality of flaggers should be mandated, with research into what color of caution flags can be easily visible, with all flaggers outfitted with “referee” style black and white jerseys, exploiting the opportunity to be better noticed. All flaggers should undergo, at minimum, a two hour session on proper flagging technique and, any pertinent local promoter safety information, that’s deemed essential.

*Note, current yellow caution flags often blend in with background dirt- color, making visibility difficult.

Tracks – Should be slowed down with an increased amount of corners and hills, as the trend towards faster and better suspended bikes has made obstacles not so much of a speed reduction measure. Jump landings need to be more forgiving, whenever possible. Watering the faces of jumps continues to be a dangerous practice that needs to be ceased. “Supercross” style obstacles should be severely limited at motocross events. “Blind” jumps need to be discouraged.

Riders Safety Committee : A ten person panel of racers should be assembled at every contest, consisting of ten randomly picked riders that are participating at that event. These assembled will discuss with the promoter and the officials any concerns they have regarding track safety, before the first practice session commences.

Professional Motocross Racing Classes:

150 Class = 150cc motorcycles (Any amount of strokes or engine configuration, 150cc max).

*Minimum Age 17 - Maximum age 21, unlimited age for females. Can only win one championship in this class or three years of top-ten finishes requires advancement to 250 or World Class.

250 Class = 250cc motorcycles (Any amount of strokes or engine configuration, 250cc max ).

• Minimum Age 18 - Maximum age 26 . Can only win one championship in this class, or three years of top-ten finishes requires advancement to World Class.

OPEN “World Class” = 300cc or above motorcycles only (Any amount of strokes or engine configuration, unlimited cc’s and cylinders).
Please note, although no boardcode and smiley buttons are shown, they are still useable

More from the Institute's soon-to-be released FIVE YEAR PLAN :



WEEKEND SCHEDULE :
The hectic and experimental Saturday single-day event should be discontinued, in favor of a more relaxed and accommodating weekend format, with Sunday hosting the premiere featured events. Saturday afternoon practice and qualifying races will provide local fans with an opportunity to see regional racers attempt to make into Sunday mornings qualifiers, which will feature seeded riders from the present year’s top-ten in series standings. Saturday afternoon will also feature a women’s event, with the top-ten seeded into the 150cc class on Sunday.

Saturday Afternoon:

12 p.m. Practice sessions and short qualifiers for 150, 250 and Open (“WORLD CLASS”) races.

Sunday Morning: 8 am – short practice sessions. 9:30 – short qualifiers (4 laps)

Sunday Afternoon: 1 p.m – 1st 150 Class Race (20 mins plus 1 lap)
1:30 – 1st 250 Class Race (30 mins plus 1)
2:10: -1st World Class race (40 mins plus 2)
3:30: 2nd 150 Class Race
4:00 2nd 250 Class Race
4:40 2nd World Class Race
5:30 Awards ceremonies for all classes

Womens Pro Races:

Womens Pro Races shall be discontinued and women will be encouraged to participate in the featured pro events. Initially, to encourage women’s participation in the program, ten of the top women from Saturday’s qualifiers will automatically be seeded into the 150cc Sunday feature races, with this practice concluding two years into the five-year plan.

Timed Qualifying:

This practice will be ceased in favor of the more competitive and traditional racing format of qualifying races – these races will be sprints of a short nature, while the Sunday afternoon races have been lengthened in accordance with the traditional endurance style motocross events of yesteryear. Accordingly, the lengths of the races will increase as riders mature and gain experience and proceed to advanced classes. There will be no timed qualifiers , although times will be permitted to be taken and disseminated to the teams, press and public - during practice sessions. Practice sessions, while splitting up classes in accordance within established guidelines, will be arranged so that the top team riders “factory” and “privateers”, have an equal chance of riding under varying track conditions. No advantage shall be given to any rider. Track time shall be equal for all qualified riders.

Noise Issues:

Speaking of noise issues, Budds reminded me of something I read on here. The loud class and the louder class is no joke, never noticed before until I realized how nice it was being able to talk during the 2 stk race.

Everything would need to be perfect for a 250f rider to win and with less to slow the riders down an all 250 class would be more of the same frustration we have now when watching these guys not be able to come back from a 5th place start.

Rup's crazy!

I like that...





g

that might just be crazy enough to work.......

Rup, get on that stuff. We will all be forever grateful.

It would be far less confusing to the casual/first time fan of the sport if they did away with the "overall" aspect of the nationals, and just ran the two races (ala World superbike, AMA superbike etc).

The format doesn't have to change, point distribution doesn't have to change, but take the focus off the "overall", and run two completely separate races each weekend. Talk up the "double" (like they do in SBK) rather than the "overall" and the casual fan will "get it" easier and it will be easier to understand.

Just another thought.

Sorry, you lost me - do you mean run the 150's and the 250's on Saturday and

the "WORLD Class" on Sunday ? Or one moto each day ?

Now you lost me...

Now what?

Sorry, the proposed plan -

WEEKEND SCHEDULE :
The hectic and experimental Saturday single-day event should be discontinued, in favor of a more relaxed and accommodating weekend format, with Sunday hosting the premiere featured events. Saturday afternoon practice and qualifying races will provide local fans with an opportunity to see regional racers attempt to make into Sunday mornings qualifiers, which will feature seeded riders from the present year’s top-ten in series standings. Saturday afternoon will also feature a women’s event, with the top-ten seeded into the 150cc class on Sunday.

Saturday Afternoon:

12 p.m. Practice sessions and short qualifiers for 150, 250 and Open (“WORLD CLASS”) races.

Sunday Morning: 8 am – short practice sessions. 9:30 – short qualifiers (4 laps)

Sunday Afternoon: 1 p.m – 1st 150 Class Race (20 mins plus 1 lap)
1:30 – 1st 250 Class Race (30 mins plus 1)
2:10: -1st World Class race (40 mins plus 2)
3:30: 2nd 150 Class Race
4:00 2nd 250 Class Race
4:40 2nd World Class Race
5:30 Awards ceremonies for all classes

Yes! The "overall" is point less. It's possible for a rider to win 11 overalls and place 3rd in 1 and still lose the championship, and the champ not win one overall. Though an unlikely outcome, it shows how meaningless the overall is.

how about two normal Motos

then at the end a live broadcasted all in (250 and 450, top 20 from each class) moto that only last for 20 minutes

Noise, 10000% needs to be down... plus, bikes too fast everyone says, db down = hp down, fact. IMO 80~85db limit indoors, 85~90 out, at throttle wide open from 15 feet. Forget this 1/4 throttle whatever crap now. You goto tech, fire it up, rip it to the stops for 1 second (not like every mx'er doesnt do this anyway) take reading, pass or fail, done.

Ignition mapping... you go thru tech, they dl the maps available. Every race when you exit the track, top 5 get dl'ed, plus 3 random. You have a map that wasnt there at tech, dq'ed from the moto. This solves mapping db down. it will literally take 1 guy with a laptop 30 seconds to do! literally

Gas.. spec gas, riders have to pay for entry, fine, you fuel them. You are making money off them being The Show, and paying them a pitance, then pulling form fuel horsecrap.. fine, you foot the bill for gas. Gas "doping" well, bigger fish to fry than 1 or 2 hp from exotica.

Womens classes... keep them. Period. Its in its infancy by todays standards. They get faster every year, every week, every race. Alot of women goto the track Rupert, you know this.

250f and ages. I agree with 18 to go pro. I dont agree with age moving someone out. You win 2 outdoor champs, you move up. You finish in top 5 3 years in a row, up you go. BUT, if you finish outside the top 10 in 450s for 2 years, you can pursue a 250 ride. This is outdoors and indoors. As in, you can win 250sx 2 years and up you go in SX, but you havent done as good outdoors, you can stay 250's there if thats what a team decides you most proficient at. Treat both as different series because they are.

Sat only.... ready? Top 30 in points ACTIVE racers.... not signed up, but went thru tech friday racers, dont have to do anything until Sat morning. The trucks are there friday morning anyway so they can be setup for sat. Everyone else, about 3 pm, 250 30 min practice. then a 450 30 min practice. Then, 250s line up, 15 mins plus 2 laps, take 12. 10 make it in, 2 alternates if someone above them goes out and cant line up sat. Then do 450's same way. make tech friday at noon. Most are there anyway.

Having said that, its still mainly a 1 day deal, why? Every fan I know of likes it for 1 HUGE reason... so they dont have to take 2 days of work off to goto an event! You get a complete FULL day in and have plenty of time to do everything, PLUS get home on sunday and recoup!!! Not everyone has the job flexibility you have Rupert. I know I dont and Im self employed and have been for 18 years! You take off Friday, travel. Hang Sat. Travel Sun and boss isnt mad come monday! works for me and about every non-industry fan I know of. Your perspective, and I really do agree with it somewhat because I have experienced it, is that of a guy that hangs out all weekend. There is NOTHING like hanging out at a nat track for 3 days, have done it, best time of my life. But look at who you are talking about, a small percentage of the spectating public! Your not talking about 10,000 people at the track for 3 days, your talking about industry and am racers, 2 to 3 thousand. Well, if 1 day gets more at the track on Sat to enjoy our sport, I'll make that sacrifice. Plus, you can still hang guys, am days!

Insurance... a riders union needs to be made. Why? GROUP HEALTH CARE!!!! You cant just go grab 15 of your buddies anymore and set it up. If your in a group, the costs DRAMATICALLY go down even in a risk sport. You earn a pro license, you are allowed to purchase health insurance, and once on the policy, you can stay there until you pass on or stop making the payments.

Chest protectors... there is nothing left of this dead horse, leave the bones alone. explain to me how an effing piece of plastic if truly going to stop anything but roost. And the inflated one, have had one, tried it. Hot, uncomfortable, not the most ergo but I will conceed that one, im 6'3". Issue is, we arent seeing alot of puncture wounds to the abdomain or chest. I know I know, something is better than, yada yada.... insert your oppinion here because there have been no clinical, unbiased true studies on this that anyone here has ever seen. "tests show mr smart guy" Who tested them? the place making them. I can design any test to show anything you want me to, so can you. Im not saying the intent isnt honest, Im not saying they dont help at all, im saying there are much greater places of concern and hands down, Dr Bodnar and his crew have done more for rider health and safety than any piece of plastic or air cell item ever made.

Flags.. having raced for 15 years, a few at a respectable level I have never once mistook a damn yellow flag for dirt! You go look at the MAJORITY of flag problems it literally stems from 2 things.... flaggers not getting out on the track and directing enough properly and riders just flat out ignore the damn things!!!! Shit, go look at dilla 250 race!!! Wharton goes down, the flagger is where he should be, on top of the damn jump, directing to the other side and has to JUMP out of the damn way to not be hit!! and we have seen this for YEARS. All you guys that always want to remember how things "used to be" you have literally seen this happen MULTIPLE times over the years! Rider down, flagger actually doing a proper job, and about gets creamed by the rider then the rider plows the down bike or rider!!! this isnt new and its more of a rider problem than anything else.

yellow flag, caution, riders get to the opposite side of the track as the flagger. Wheels down, rider down flag, flo orange. solved as much as you can solve it, you cant solve riders ignoring the flags. Fine them, dq them, doc them spots... still going to happen, only real solution I have ever seen, you get 5 or 6 guys waving them and directing, and even then 1 or 2 have to jump out of the way.

Flaggers...... agreed, teach them and tell them flat out, get out on the damn track!

Tracks... man made jumps, blind jumps, groomed not groomed, any gripe. You are the same guys bitching about every track, well, thats racing and has been for years and it obviously works because we are all here. Stop trying to put absolutes on everything. ANY jump over 4 foot tall is a blind jump in some respect. The jump allesi got ran over on, wasnt blind at ALL and he still got ran over, even after the whole pack was gone but 1 guy 15 seconds later! Flaggers will solve track problems and rider down problems in respect to safety of fallen riders more than anything else, but it will never be perfect until the riders see a yellow and take direction of the flaggers.

Rupert, sorry, have to say this... 150 cc races, dumbest fucking idea I have heard of, until you said Unlimited class. Lets blame tracks as too fast, unsafe, then let anyone do ANYTHING they want to THE premier class. We both KNOW, someone will punch out a motor to 460, then 500, then 600... leave it where it is until the next revolution/evolution comes along. Then lets make everyone move out, by your plan, of the cost reduced 250 class. Great! You just put about 100 guys out of ever having a chance at racing and even having a remote chance at being competitive because a 450 doesnt need much motor-wise to keep up and you can get acceptable suspension for a reasonable price or make the stock work well enough for that riders skill level. Want examples? Who in their right damn mind would have let Josh Hill run in an unlimited class after his 250 races? Noone. The kid had to go buy his own 450 to make a point. You make an unlimited class, thats out. Jake Moss, Regal, Hahn, want me to go on? You wouldnt see this... maybe Moss. Plus, how do you sell to the public? Everyone gripes about bike prices, we have the best bikes in our SHOWROOMS! Of all times! My god, in the 90's, you bought a honda and if you were legit fast, you had to start gusseting the frame and reenforcing the swing arm! And this is a honda we are talking about! Keep it all like it is now, spec races with certain allowables. it works, its as level a field as you can reasonably expect mechanically, its not broke, dont fix it. And for those 2 stroke fans, and I AM 100% one of them, move on, they arent coming back. If they were, it would have happened by now. 4 strokes today have so many advantages over smokers, even the riders have said multiple times, they arent as fun as I remember them to be.

Great post, valuable input - thank you, sir.

The forthcoming 5 year plan is not the only option, it just offers a plan - obviously

it will not appeal to all.

I would disagree strongly with you on the Saturday deal, where you mention that every fan you know likes it, i find quite the opposite, Especially if you have friends that work at motorcycle dealerships.Or machine shops. Or car dealerships. Sundays are for motocross.

Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to write, its important that every voice is heard and refreshing to hear that others feel as strongly and passionately about this sport as i do.

its the only way things get done Rupert, open discourse.

Some of the above I feel strongly about, some passionate. (the sat deal, we made tx round, home and able to recover sunday was great)

On Saturdays, you bring up the motorcycle dealers, ok, will buy that, but you have to realise that at every dealership I have ever seen, MX guys are a VERY small part of the workforce, just like mx bike sales are a VERY small part of sales! We have, in this town, one of the top yamaha stores in the nation (not joking or bragging, top 20 or 30 in volume) and a honda superstore. Including the 4 dealers ships where I know people in OKC, about 3 out of 30 at the honda store are MX guys, 1 at the yama store, maybe 6 or 7 at the others, out of about 200 other employees. They just arent a large group.

Nostalgia, Im literally with you, one of the best times I have had in my life, something I will take with me and share when im 90... leaving on a monday from OKC headed to Millville to race am on friday and watch the rest! I truly wish everyone I know could experience weds thru sunday morning like that... you have, others here have. Fri and Sat night were amazing! Whole trip was. but again, we are talking a small percentage of the spectating public.

Note though, I was fudging on Sat only in my above comment, I cant stop thinking about the whole weekend, but to make an omlet, few eggs ect. Honestly, if I had a say so, thurs Am day, finishing up fri morning. Tech at noon Fri. 31 and lower in points that are active, vying to make it to The Show. Then, that evening, pit races, beer tent, cook out, band, activities for young and old, like at Millville so I could give everyone what I have, that memory. Then Sat is THE show. Finish it up with a monster cookout type deal sat night... heaven. I have always said, SX is an event, but Nats are a happening. Sadly though, if I had to give up parts of that to double the crowd there, double the viewers on tv, double the sponsors... I would, no hesitation.. because once you do that, then you can bring alot of it back because now your established with more than the hardcore diehard moto guys and gals.

a curiosity though... one thing that always strikes m. When others bring up plans, and maybe you know because I have no clue, they always seem to paint the 250f class as the economical class, when in reality, its almost twice as much! The 450 class is WAY more economical of the 2.. just curious why everyone says so.

My heart was jumping out of my chest this morning as Chad was coming on Davi. Chad loves Davi to death ) but Davi's fitness is questionable ...

... Chad's on Davi's back.