Leblanc Story: this is why AMA needs under 23 rule

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Edited Date/Time 10/8/2022 10:31pm
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still hanging around the lites class and hogging jobs that should be available to kids coming up through the ranks.

Think about LeBlancs results this year, if it wasn't for the older riders he would be a seriously marketable athlete. Just thinking about this from a logical standpoint, how is any 17-18 year old really expected to come into the lites class and compete with a Vince friese or a christian craig? These guys have had 10-12 years of professional SX experience and you throw a kid in with them a few months after lorettas and expect him to compete, the guy probably wasn't allowed to even practice on a SX track the year before.

Now I'm all for a free market and the best man should win, but when you have a development class I think there should be a cut off. By the time a rider turns 24 years old he's likely in his 6th professional season. I think its unfair to expect a rookie at 17 to compete with a Smith, Hampshire, Martin, craig on pro season/attenmt #7-12. You end up with a stale group of burnt out personalities hanging onto these jobs, and thats exactly why they made the 23 age cap in europe.

The age cap would be a great way to make sure that younger riders have a chance at development and actually having a pro career. The 24-26 year olds who can't find a 450 ride can do money races or move on to a career, the 450 class is not deep enough anyway with usually only 10-12 fast guys out there.

Anyway i would much rather see one of these 24-26 year old lites riders have to go out and look for a job right now as opposed to LeBlanc
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Johnny Ringo
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10/3/2022 8:58pm
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
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10/3/2022 9:03pm
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
At 24 years old, I think this guy has the skill set to race the 450 class. But thats another point why the limit is needed in AMA, all of a sudden you literally have hangarounds coming to the US because they can't find a ride in europe.
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Titan1
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10/3/2022 9:10pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2022 10:16pm
“lites class”?….I can’t stand that term…worst class name ever.
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Johnny Ringo
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Hats Off wrote:
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still...
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still hanging around the lites class and hogging jobs that should be available to kids coming up through the ranks.

Think about LeBlancs results this year, if it wasn't for the older riders he would be a seriously marketable athlete. Just thinking about this from a logical standpoint, how is any 17-18 year old really expected to come into the lites class and compete with a Vince friese or a christian craig? These guys have had 10-12 years of professional SX experience and you throw a kid in with them a few months after lorettas and expect him to compete, the guy probably wasn't allowed to even practice on a SX track the year before.

Now I'm all for a free market and the best man should win, but when you have a development class I think there should be a cut off. By the time a rider turns 24 years old he's likely in his 6th professional season. I think its unfair to expect a rookie at 17 to compete with a Smith, Hampshire, Martin, craig on pro season/attenmt #7-12. You end up with a stale group of burnt out personalities hanging onto these jobs, and thats exactly why they made the 23 age cap in europe.

The age cap would be a great way to make sure that younger riders have a chance at development and actually having a pro career. The 24-26 year olds who can't find a 450 ride can do money races or move on to a career, the 450 class is not deep enough anyway with usually only 10-12 fast guys out there.

Anyway i would much rather see one of these 24-26 year old lites riders have to go out and look for a job right now as opposed to LeBlanc
You mention only 10-12 fast guys in the 450 class. You know that’s the same number of factory bikes, right?
7

The Shop

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10/3/2022 9:18pm
Hats Off wrote:
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still...
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still hanging around the lites class and hogging jobs that should be available to kids coming up through the ranks.

Think about LeBlancs results this year, if it wasn't for the older riders he would be a seriously marketable athlete. Just thinking about this from a logical standpoint, how is any 17-18 year old really expected to come into the lites class and compete with a Vince friese or a christian craig? These guys have had 10-12 years of professional SX experience and you throw a kid in with them a few months after lorettas and expect him to compete, the guy probably wasn't allowed to even practice on a SX track the year before.

Now I'm all for a free market and the best man should win, but when you have a development class I think there should be a cut off. By the time a rider turns 24 years old he's likely in his 6th professional season. I think its unfair to expect a rookie at 17 to compete with a Smith, Hampshire, Martin, craig on pro season/attenmt #7-12. You end up with a stale group of burnt out personalities hanging onto these jobs, and thats exactly why they made the 23 age cap in europe.

The age cap would be a great way to make sure that younger riders have a chance at development and actually having a pro career. The 24-26 year olds who can't find a 450 ride can do money races or move on to a career, the 450 class is not deep enough anyway with usually only 10-12 fast guys out there.

Anyway i would much rather see one of these 24-26 year old lites riders have to go out and look for a job right now as opposed to LeBlanc
You mention only 10-12 fast guys in the 450 class. You know that’s the same number of factory bikes, right?
Its obvious there would be a deeper 450 field if you didn't have the likes of friese, craig, martin, and so on hanging down every year. There are support teams, just not good riders willing to go there because they can walk over kids and take easier money in the lites class.

The lack of depth at most 450 races is embarrassing. Position 16-22 getting lapped multiple times in a SX race. We can play semantics, but its really getting to be a problem
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10/3/2022 9:21pm
The same crew on vital that hate the 23 and under rule are the same ones that drag a kid through the mud for 10-15th place finishes his rookie year. Sad
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10/3/2022 9:30pm
He’s a product of bad management, not the current system. He should’ve stayed down another year or two until he was 100% ready.
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10/3/2022 9:34pm
Hats Off wrote:
The same crew on vital that hate the 23 and under rule are the same ones that drag a kid through the mud for 10-15th place...
The same crew on vital that hate the 23 and under rule are the same ones that drag a kid through the mud for 10-15th place finishes his rookie year. Sad
Yup, just look at the Vohland threads after Sx.
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dsc131
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Hats Off wrote:
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still...
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still hanging around the lites class and hogging jobs that should be available to kids coming up through the ranks.

Think about LeBlancs results this year, if it wasn't for the older riders he would be a seriously marketable athlete. Just thinking about this from a logical standpoint, how is any 17-18 year old really expected to come into the lites class and compete with a Vince friese or a christian craig? These guys have had 10-12 years of professional SX experience and you throw a kid in with them a few months after lorettas and expect him to compete, the guy probably wasn't allowed to even practice on a SX track the year before.

Now I'm all for a free market and the best man should win, but when you have a development class I think there should be a cut off. By the time a rider turns 24 years old he's likely in his 6th professional season. I think its unfair to expect a rookie at 17 to compete with a Smith, Hampshire, Martin, craig on pro season/attenmt #7-12. You end up with a stale group of burnt out personalities hanging onto these jobs, and thats exactly why they made the 23 age cap in europe.

The age cap would be a great way to make sure that younger riders have a chance at development and actually having a pro career. The 24-26 year olds who can't find a 450 ride can do money races or move on to a career, the 450 class is not deep enough anyway with usually only 10-12 fast guys out there.

Anyway i would much rather see one of these 24-26 year old lites riders have to go out and look for a job right now as opposed to LeBlanc
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case.

There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross is not a development class; it's just a class. You can be 16 or 60, which is awesome. If the bike suits your skillset better, why shouldn't you be able to showcase that? Mark Barnett springs to mind.

No doubt LeBlanc got a raw deal from Star.

But...
Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

You want to win...or be in the top 10? Be faster than at least 30 other people on the gate.

36
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10/3/2022 9:59pm
Hats Off wrote:
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still...
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still hanging around the lites class and hogging jobs that should be available to kids coming up through the ranks.

Think about LeBlancs results this year, if it wasn't for the older riders he would be a seriously marketable athlete. Just thinking about this from a logical standpoint, how is any 17-18 year old really expected to come into the lites class and compete with a Vince friese or a christian craig? These guys have had 10-12 years of professional SX experience and you throw a kid in with them a few months after lorettas and expect him to compete, the guy probably wasn't allowed to even practice on a SX track the year before.

Now I'm all for a free market and the best man should win, but when you have a development class I think there should be a cut off. By the time a rider turns 24 years old he's likely in his 6th professional season. I think its unfair to expect a rookie at 17 to compete with a Smith, Hampshire, Martin, craig on pro season/attenmt #7-12. You end up with a stale group of burnt out personalities hanging onto these jobs, and thats exactly why they made the 23 age cap in europe.

The age cap would be a great way to make sure that younger riders have a chance at development and actually having a pro career. The 24-26 year olds who can't find a 450 ride can do money races or move on to a career, the 450 class is not deep enough anyway with usually only 10-12 fast guys out there.

Anyway i would much rather see one of these 24-26 year old lites riders have to go out and look for a job right now as opposed to LeBlanc
dsc131 wrote:
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case. There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross...
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case.

There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross is not a development class; it's just a class. You can be 16 or 60, which is awesome. If the bike suits your skillset better, why shouldn't you be able to showcase that? Mark Barnett springs to mind.

No doubt LeBlanc got a raw deal from Star.

But...
Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

You want to win...or be in the top 10? Be faster than at least 30 other people on the gate.

Again with semantics, I understand its the 250 class outdoors, but its the lites class. A 250 four stroke designed to compete against 125's: these are slower and more lightweight bikes.

But now you're intentionally avoiding my main point in your response: How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as some of the 26 year olds out there. Guys with 8 seasons of bike testing, fitness development, specialized skills from riding pro SX tracks on so many occasions.

The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system. You can point to Jett who had a background racing in europe and testing through so many years of childhood, but there's a pretty obvious reason why virtually none of these kids are "making it"
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UpTiTe wrote:
He’s a product of bad management, not the current system. He should’ve stayed down another year or two until he was 100% ready.
And what would he have gotten by "waiting around another year." Another 40-60 minutes worth of motos on the cow pasture that is lorettas? The guy already waited until age 18 to turn pro. It is the current racing system and promoters that have failed him. The amateur series didn't do hardly enough to prepare him for the old boys circle of guys he was about to compete against, many of them nearly a decade older than him
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Leeham
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10/3/2022 10:17pm
Nice brand new account. Lame fucking thread.
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10/3/2022 10:20pm
Leeham wrote:
Nice brand new account. Lame fucking thread.
I'm sorry you're so scared to see your favorite 26-30 year old get forced up into the 450 class. I'm sure its a real scary reality for that guy, too
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Leeham
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10/3/2022 10:24pm
Hats Off wrote:
I'm sorry you're so scared to see your favorite 26-30 year old get forced up into the 450 class. I'm sure its a real scary reality...
I'm sorry you're so scared to see your favorite 26-30 year old get forced up into the 450 class. I'm sure its a real scary reality for that guy, too
Dont really have a favorite 250 rider. Just enjoy a deep field with good racing. Doesnt matter if they are 16 or 30.

Whats your main account?
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10/3/2022 10:26pm
Hats Off story: this is why VITAL needs a 50 post rule before a new account can start a topic.
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Sully
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10/3/2022 10:27pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2022 10:28pm
Hats Off wrote:
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still...
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still hanging around the lites class and hogging jobs that should be available to kids coming up through the ranks.

Think about LeBlancs results this year, if it wasn't for the older riders he would be a seriously marketable athlete. Just thinking about this from a logical standpoint, how is any 17-18 year old really expected to come into the lites class and compete with a Vince friese or a christian craig? These guys have had 10-12 years of professional SX experience and you throw a kid in with them a few months after lorettas and expect him to compete, the guy probably wasn't allowed to even practice on a SX track the year before.

Now I'm all for a free market and the best man should win, but when you have a development class I think there should be a cut off. By the time a rider turns 24 years old he's likely in his 6th professional season. I think its unfair to expect a rookie at 17 to compete with a Smith, Hampshire, Martin, craig on pro season/attenmt #7-12. You end up with a stale group of burnt out personalities hanging onto these jobs, and thats exactly why they made the 23 age cap in europe.

The age cap would be a great way to make sure that younger riders have a chance at development and actually having a pro career. The 24-26 year olds who can't find a 450 ride can do money races or move on to a career, the 450 class is not deep enough anyway with usually only 10-12 fast guys out there.

Anyway i would much rather see one of these 24-26 year old lites riders have to go out and look for a job right now as opposed to LeBlanc
dsc131 wrote:
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case. There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross...
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case.

There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross is not a development class; it's just a class. You can be 16 or 60, which is awesome. If the bike suits your skillset better, why shouldn't you be able to showcase that? Mark Barnett springs to mind.

No doubt LeBlanc got a raw deal from Star.

But...
Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

You want to win...or be in the top 10? Be faster than at least 30 other people on the gate.

Hats Off wrote:
Again with semantics, I understand its the 250 class outdoors, but its the lites class. A 250 four stroke designed to compete against 125's: these are...
Again with semantics, I understand its the 250 class outdoors, but its the lites class. A 250 four stroke designed to compete against 125's: these are slower and more lightweight bikes.

But now you're intentionally avoiding my main point in your response: How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as some of the 26 year olds out there. Guys with 8 seasons of bike testing, fitness development, specialized skills from riding pro SX tracks on so many occasions.

The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system. You can point to Jett who had a background racing in europe and testing through so many years of childhood, but there's a pretty obvious reason why virtually none of these kids are "making it"
"How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as some of the 26 year olds out there."

Ask Jett, Jo, Hunter, JMart, Sexton, Eli, Marchbanks, Swoll, Brown, McAdoo, Forkner, etc. They all performed well at 16 - 17 years old against older dudes.
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10/3/2022 10:29pm
Hats Off wrote:
I'm sorry you're so scared to see your favorite 26-30 year old get forced up into the 450 class. I'm sure its a real scary reality...
I'm sorry you're so scared to see your favorite 26-30 year old get forced up into the 450 class. I'm sure its a real scary reality for that guy, too
Leeham wrote:
Dont really have a favorite 250 rider. Just enjoy a deep field with good racing. Doesnt matter if they are 16 or 30. Whats your main...
Dont really have a favorite 250 rider. Just enjoy a deep field with good racing. Doesnt matter if they are 16 or 30.

Whats your main account?
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity while older guys like hampshire and smith just fester and stagnate burning through a failed season after another.
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10/3/2022 10:29pm
Leblanc only raced outdoors.
If you look at the riders in this years mx field there's only a couple over 23.
With jmart out the oldest notable guy was Hampshire.
Followed by jcoop 24, hunter 23 and mosiman 23.
That's only 2 riders over 23.
It's not like sx in previous seasons with ferrandis, jmart, craig, nichols, mcelrath, blose, peters and Oldenburg.
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10/3/2022 10:34pm
Sully wrote:
[i]"How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as...
"How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as some of the 26 year olds out there."

Ask Jett, Jo, Hunter, JMart, Sexton, Eli, Marchbanks, Swoll, Brown, McAdoo, Forkner, etc. They all performed well at 16 - 17 years old against older dudes.
Jmart didn't go pro until age 18-19. forkner is getting to the point where would now have to move up under this rule. Sexton obviously has nothing to do with this discussion as he moved up on his own at appropriate age. Same with Eli. Mcadoo is no ones role model for anything. Swoll is just a diversity hire. And i have no idea who Brown even is
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ACBailey89
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10/3/2022 10:36pm
Hats Off wrote:
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity...
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity while older guys like hampshire and smith just fester and stagnate burning through a failed season after another.
Well maybe the young guys should beat Hampshire and Smith. There problem solved, oh wait they can’t, the factories realize there wasting a spot and there off the team. Hate to say it, but they just gotta be faster to earn a spot.
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10/3/2022 10:37pm
mx313 wrote:
Leblanc only raced outdoors. If you look at the riders in this years mx field there's only a couple over 23. With jmart out the oldest...
Leblanc only raced outdoors.
If you look at the riders in this years mx field there's only a couple over 23.
With jmart out the oldest notable guy was Hampshire.
Followed by jcoop 24, hunter 23 and mosiman 23.
That's only 2 riders over 23.
It's not like sx in previous seasons with ferrandis, jmart, craig, nichols, mcelrath, blose, peters and Oldenburg.
Yeah but if you moved up forkner and all of those names just mentioned next year, you would have a really great development class full of kids eager to learn and race at a safer pace. Fresh faces in the pits, as opposed to seeing the same old down and out frowners coming back from injury after next. A rotating group of fresh younger talent is needed
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dsc131
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10/3/2022 10:38pm
Hats Off wrote:
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still...
The Matt LeBlanc story epitomizes why we need an under 23 rule in the AMA so badly. There are SO many older riders (above 25) still hanging around the lites class and hogging jobs that should be available to kids coming up through the ranks.

Think about LeBlancs results this year, if it wasn't for the older riders he would be a seriously marketable athlete. Just thinking about this from a logical standpoint, how is any 17-18 year old really expected to come into the lites class and compete with a Vince friese or a christian craig? These guys have had 10-12 years of professional SX experience and you throw a kid in with them a few months after lorettas and expect him to compete, the guy probably wasn't allowed to even practice on a SX track the year before.

Now I'm all for a free market and the best man should win, but when you have a development class I think there should be a cut off. By the time a rider turns 24 years old he's likely in his 6th professional season. I think its unfair to expect a rookie at 17 to compete with a Smith, Hampshire, Martin, craig on pro season/attenmt #7-12. You end up with a stale group of burnt out personalities hanging onto these jobs, and thats exactly why they made the 23 age cap in europe.

The age cap would be a great way to make sure that younger riders have a chance at development and actually having a pro career. The 24-26 year olds who can't find a 450 ride can do money races or move on to a career, the 450 class is not deep enough anyway with usually only 10-12 fast guys out there.

Anyway i would much rather see one of these 24-26 year old lites riders have to go out and look for a job right now as opposed to LeBlanc
dsc131 wrote:
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case. There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross...
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case.

There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross is not a development class; it's just a class. You can be 16 or 60, which is awesome. If the bike suits your skillset better, why shouldn't you be able to showcase that? Mark Barnett springs to mind.

No doubt LeBlanc got a raw deal from Star.

But...
Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

You want to win...or be in the top 10? Be faster than at least 30 other people on the gate.

Hats Off wrote:
Again with semantics, I understand its the 250 class outdoors, but its the lites class. A 250 four stroke designed to compete against 125's: these are...
Again with semantics, I understand its the 250 class outdoors, but its the lites class. A 250 four stroke designed to compete against 125's: these are slower and more lightweight bikes.

But now you're intentionally avoiding my main point in your response: How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as some of the 26 year olds out there. Guys with 8 seasons of bike testing, fitness development, specialized skills from riding pro SX tracks on so many occasions.

The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system. You can point to Jett who had a background racing in europe and testing through so many years of childhood, but there's a pretty obvious reason why virtually none of these kids are "making it"
Ok, I'll play...

"The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system."

After spot checking, the following riders WON the title at these ages:

RC - 18
TP - 17
Stew -17
RV - 18
RD -20
Jett - 18

And that's the list for title holders. The list of riders that scored top 10's or even top 5's in motos/overalls would be pages long. Deegan scored a top 10 at 16 just a few weeks ago.

Bottom list is this...MANY riders are and have been competitive in the class from age 17-20 for DECADES, including some of the above before they won the title.

Now it's your turn to not ignore my point.

Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

Further, let's just say for a minute that we are going to go with your snowflake entitlement mentality. How you know that someone like Levi Kitchen or JCoop didn't work their ass off for years before moving to the class at a later age due to financial hardship or injuries or just putting in the work at the practice track? Why should their window to prove themselves in the 250 class be shortened? Again, this question is predicated on your idea that the fastest riders don't deserve to be on the gate in the first place.



And BTW, nobody has called it the "lites" class for at least a decade. That term was used as a bridge term during the move from 2-stroke to 4-strokes to avoid confusion about what a 250 meant in the mid-2000's.
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ACBailey89 wrote:
Well maybe the young guys should beat Hampshire and Smith. There problem solved, oh wait they can’t, the factories realize there wasting a spot and there...
Well maybe the young guys should beat Hampshire and Smith. There problem solved, oh wait they can’t, the factories realize there wasting a spot and there off the team. Hate to say it, but they just gotta be faster to earn a spot.
You know its interesting, LeBlancs finishes this season were basically at par with those two names. Save for hampshire pulling an overall win out of nowhere
10
10/3/2022 10:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2022 10:41pm
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
Hats Off wrote:
At 24 years old, I think this guy has the skill set to race the 450 class. But thats another point why the limit is needed...
At 24 years old, I think this guy has the skill set to race the 450 class. But thats another point why the limit is needed in AMA, all of a sudden you literally have hangarounds coming to the US because they can't find a ride in europe.
So Jett, who is 19 yrs old must camp in the 250 class for another 3 yrs?


ACBailey89
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10/3/2022 10:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2022 10:42pm
Hats Off wrote:
You know its interesting, LeBlancs finishes this season were basically at par with those two names. Save for hampshire pulling an overall win out of nowhere
How Smith didn’t even race the outdoors……and you said it yourself Hampshire won an overall….therefore no leblanc did not race to these guys levels, oh wait RJ’s level.
ACBailey89
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10/3/2022 10:47pm



Got bored and realized you were even more off than I thought.
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Hats Off
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10/3/2022 10:48pm
dsc131 wrote:
Ok, I'll play... [i]"The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system."[/i] After spot checking...
Ok, I'll play...

"The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system."

After spot checking, the following riders WON the title at these ages:

RC - 18
TP - 17
Stew -17
RV - 18
RD -20
Jett - 18

And that's the list for title holders. The list of riders that scored top 10's or even top 5's in motos/overalls would be pages long. Deegan scored a top 10 at 16 just a few weeks ago.

Bottom list is this...MANY riders are and have been competitive in the class from age 17-20 for DECADES, including some of the above before they won the title.

Now it's your turn to not ignore my point.

Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

Further, let's just say for a minute that we are going to go with your snowflake entitlement mentality. How you know that someone like Levi Kitchen or JCoop didn't work their ass off for years before moving to the class at a later age due to financial hardship or injuries or just putting in the work at the practice track? Why should their window to prove themselves in the 250 class be shortened? Again, this question is predicated on your idea that the fastest riders don't deserve to be on the gate in the first place.



And BTW, nobody has called it the "lites" class for at least a decade. That term was used as a bridge term during the move from 2-stroke to 4-strokes to avoid confusion about what a 250 meant in the mid-2000's.
First of all, Jett is from europe where they actually have a reapectable amatuer system that competes similar to pros. The other riders mentioned are from way different eras, notable ones with much less talent depth.

The idea is not that they are inherently more deserving, its simply that the 250 class is at least somewhat a development class: hence the west/east regionals etc.

You're right that the free market prevails typically and those that control production typically make the best choices, and i agree, typically. But in this limited situation, it would really be better for the fans and the sport as a whole, especially the development of the younger riders to have an age cap. Then they at least have a fighting shot to get those first 2-3 seasons in

Its a lites class. Bike designed to ride against 125's. Women also ride them. Lite bike lites class. You act like putting a 24 year old guy on a 450 is like sending him to the morgue
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Hats Off
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10/3/2022 10:50pm
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
Hats Off wrote:
At 24 years old, I think this guy has the skill set to race the 450 class. But thats another point why the limit is needed...
At 24 years old, I think this guy has the skill set to race the 450 class. But thats another point why the limit is needed in AMA, all of a sudden you literally have hangarounds coming to the US because they can't find a ride in europe.
Boomslang wrote:
So Jett, who is 19 yrs old must camp in the 250 class for another 3 yrs?


Why couldn't he move up if he wanted / was ready to?

Why should Jett's abnormal success be used as an example to the detriment of developing riders?
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dsc131
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10/3/2022 10:57pm
dsc131 wrote:
Ok, I'll play... [i]"The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system."[/i] After spot checking...
Ok, I'll play...

"The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system."

After spot checking, the following riders WON the title at these ages:

RC - 18
TP - 17
Stew -17
RV - 18
RD -20
Jett - 18

And that's the list for title holders. The list of riders that scored top 10's or even top 5's in motos/overalls would be pages long. Deegan scored a top 10 at 16 just a few weeks ago.

Bottom list is this...MANY riders are and have been competitive in the class from age 17-20 for DECADES, including some of the above before they won the title.

Now it's your turn to not ignore my point.

Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

Further, let's just say for a minute that we are going to go with your snowflake entitlement mentality. How you know that someone like Levi Kitchen or JCoop didn't work their ass off for years before moving to the class at a later age due to financial hardship or injuries or just putting in the work at the practice track? Why should their window to prove themselves in the 250 class be shortened? Again, this question is predicated on your idea that the fastest riders don't deserve to be on the gate in the first place.



And BTW, nobody has called it the "lites" class for at least a decade. That term was used as a bridge term during the move from 2-stroke to 4-strokes to avoid confusion about what a 250 meant in the mid-2000's.
Hats Off wrote:
First of all, Jett is from europe where they actually have a reapectable amatuer system that competes similar to pros. The other riders mentioned are from...
First of all, Jett is from europe where they actually have a reapectable amatuer system that competes similar to pros. The other riders mentioned are from way different eras, notable ones with much less talent depth.

The idea is not that they are inherently more deserving, its simply that the 250 class is at least somewhat a development class: hence the west/east regionals etc.

You're right that the free market prevails typically and those that control production typically make the best choices, and i agree, typically. But in this limited situation, it would really be better for the fans and the sport as a whole, especially the development of the younger riders to have an age cap. Then they at least have a fighting shot to get those first 2-3 seasons in

Its a lites class. Bike designed to ride against 125's. Women also ride them. Lite bike lites class. You act like putting a 24 year old guy on a 450 is like sending him to the morgue
It's not about "controlling production". We are talking about fucking EMPLOYMENT here. Are you saying that you support age discrimination in the job market?

For the 3rd time, answer my question

Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?
3
Hats Off
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Location
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10/3/2022 11:05pm
dsc131 wrote:
Ok, I'll play... [i]"The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system."[/i] After spot checking...
Ok, I'll play...

"The fact is its unrealistic to expect any kid coming up through the ranks to excel in this current system."

After spot checking, the following riders WON the title at these ages:

RC - 18
TP - 17
Stew -17
RV - 18
RD -20
Jett - 18

And that's the list for title holders. The list of riders that scored top 10's or even top 5's in motos/overalls would be pages long. Deegan scored a top 10 at 16 just a few weeks ago.

Bottom list is this...MANY riders are and have been competitive in the class from age 17-20 for DECADES, including some of the above before they won the title.

Now it's your turn to not ignore my point.

Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

Further, let's just say for a minute that we are going to go with your snowflake entitlement mentality. How you know that someone like Levi Kitchen or JCoop didn't work their ass off for years before moving to the class at a later age due to financial hardship or injuries or just putting in the work at the practice track? Why should their window to prove themselves in the 250 class be shortened? Again, this question is predicated on your idea that the fastest riders don't deserve to be on the gate in the first place.



And BTW, nobody has called it the "lites" class for at least a decade. That term was used as a bridge term during the move from 2-stroke to 4-strokes to avoid confusion about what a 250 meant in the mid-2000's.
Hats Off wrote:
First of all, Jett is from europe where they actually have a reapectable amatuer system that competes similar to pros. The other riders mentioned are from...
First of all, Jett is from europe where they actually have a reapectable amatuer system that competes similar to pros. The other riders mentioned are from way different eras, notable ones with much less talent depth.

The idea is not that they are inherently more deserving, its simply that the 250 class is at least somewhat a development class: hence the west/east regionals etc.

You're right that the free market prevails typically and those that control production typically make the best choices, and i agree, typically. But in this limited situation, it would really be better for the fans and the sport as a whole, especially the development of the younger riders to have an age cap. Then they at least have a fighting shot to get those first 2-3 seasons in

Its a lites class. Bike designed to ride against 125's. Women also ride them. Lite bike lites class. You act like putting a 24 year old guy on a 450 is like sending him to the morgue
dsc131 wrote:
It's not about "controlling production". We are talking about fucking EMPLOYMENT here. Are you saying that you support age discrimination in the job market? [b]For the...
It's not about "controlling production". We are talking about fucking EMPLOYMENT here. Are you saying that you support age discrimination in the job market?

For the 3rd time, answer my question

Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?
First of all, I clearly articulated an answer to that question in my previous post. And "controlling production" simply alluded to the owners of the race teams. I agreed with your point, that in a totally open and free market, the business (or the one controlling production) should and does have absolute say over who he hires.

But again, we're not talking about changing employment rules, or "age based discrimination." We're simply talking about changing the rules of the game, which is a valid and legal thing to do. You can have an age cap, you can have a "points" system like currently in place (which will inevitably favor the injury prone and those that throw away races).

But to answer your question: a third or fourth time: its not about the 18-19 year old being "more deserving" of the job. Its simply a rule for the game, which happens to be better for the sport in general by helping younger riders develop and pushing more depth to the main class which is the 450 class
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