Stop comparing riders to James

Dirtbikeracer 9/30/2022 9:14am
9/30/2022 9:14am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 9:14am
James was in a class of his own and years ahead of his time, Jett does Remind me of him a bit because he is going so much faster and looks smooth doing it.
But the biggest difference I see from 20 years ago When James was Coming into the pro class to now Is the way the entire field has elevated, If we dropped Jett into 2002 He would look different and decimate the field also.
The big Difference is James was actually going that fast in 2002. I remember hearing David Bailey watching and calling a SX race and he was in shock 😲 he said I've never seen anything like this!
Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 9/30/2022 9:16am
9/30/2022 9:16am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
That literally doesn’t make sense. If RC was afraid to push James in outdoors, how the hell did he win 20 of 23 nationals against him?
sandtrack315 wrote:
Outdoors, RC was a better racer, and had a 450 while James was on a 250 for a lot of those nationals. And we all remember...
Outdoors, RC was a better racer, and had a 450 while James was on a 250 for a lot of those nationals. And we all remember the times James would pass RC and crash his brains out. That's besides the point, you guys are reading me saying RC feared James as me saying James won more, or was a better racer. No.

What I am saying is that, arguably the greatest racer of all time, RC, when asked if there were times when he had to ride out of his comfort zone, before the interviewer can even finish, he says James Stewart made me do that. James was not faster than RC a lot of the time, maybe most of the time, but RC knew there would be days when James would send it harder than RC was comfortable with, hence the term, "feared". Call that whatever you want, but I doubt he felt that way about Reed and Ferry and whoever else was coming in 2nd to him his entire career.

James was the only person to ever really push RC on a constant basis. If you don't remember, here you go, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAggMt_2q8
James was on a 250 for 7 of those 23 nationals.

Take a knee dude, it’s over. You can make your original argument without making up RC quotes to fit your narrative.
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mxracer828
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mxracer828 9/30/2022 9:38am
9/30/2022 9:38am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 9:38am
One thing is for sure,both those riders pushed themselves and this sport. The racing will never be like it was back then, rc and stew just pushing the limits every second of every moto,Kevin windahm hauling the mail and it dosent even look like he’s trying,watching Doug Henry and Steve Lamson just ringing the necks of those cr125s. Awesome times to be a fan of the sport.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 9/30/2022 9:39am
9/30/2022 9:39am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 12:17pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
That literally doesn’t make sense. If RC was afraid to push James in outdoors, how the hell did he win 20 of 23 nationals against him?
sandtrack315 wrote:
Outdoors, RC was a better racer, and had a 450 while James was on a 250 for a lot of those nationals. And we all remember...
Outdoors, RC was a better racer, and had a 450 while James was on a 250 for a lot of those nationals. And we all remember the times James would pass RC and crash his brains out. That's besides the point, you guys are reading me saying RC feared James as me saying James won more, or was a better racer. No.

What I am saying is that, arguably the greatest racer of all time, RC, when asked if there were times when he had to ride out of his comfort zone, before the interviewer can even finish, he says James Stewart made me do that. James was not faster than RC a lot of the time, maybe most of the time, but RC knew there would be days when James would send it harder than RC was comfortable with, hence the term, "feared". Call that whatever you want, but I doubt he felt that way about Reed and Ferry and whoever else was coming in 2nd to him his entire career.

James was the only person to ever really push RC on a constant basis. If you don't remember, here you go, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAggMt_2q8
Johnny Ringo wrote:
James was on a 250 for 7 of those 23 nationals. Take a knee dude, it’s over. You can make your original argument without making up...
James was on a 250 for 7 of those 23 nationals.

Take a knee dude, it’s over. You can make your original argument without making up RC quotes to fit your narrative.
I quoted him from the video I posted...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXriMVFlWoY

My only real claim is just that, RC said James, without hesitation, when asked who pushed him outside his comfort zone. There is a good reason, which he says in the next sentence--James had a pure raw speed and talent.

As I have also said, others have this! But if you go back, having that, and the other 2 attributes I listed, all in one racer, just does not happen any more. So, sure, compare specifics traits of racers to the traits of another racer. That's fun and interesting, but the general "he reminds me of James", without any specifics about how, will never be true in the general sense. No one will be like James, in the general sense, ever again. That time in the sport is over.
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LoudLove
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LoudLove 9/30/2022 4:31pm
9/30/2022 4:31pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
Outdoors, RC was a better racer, and had a 450 while James was on a 250 for a lot of those nationals. And we all remember...
Outdoors, RC was a better racer, and had a 450 while James was on a 250 for a lot of those nationals. And we all remember the times James would pass RC and crash his brains out. That's besides the point, you guys are reading me saying RC feared James as me saying James won more, or was a better racer. No.

What I am saying is that, arguably the greatest racer of all time, RC, when asked if there were times when he had to ride out of his comfort zone, before the interviewer can even finish, he says James Stewart made me do that. James was not faster than RC a lot of the time, maybe most of the time, but RC knew there would be days when James would send it harder than RC was comfortable with, hence the term, "feared". Call that whatever you want, but I doubt he felt that way about Reed and Ferry and whoever else was coming in 2nd to him his entire career.

James was the only person to ever really push RC on a constant basis. If you don't remember, here you go, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAggMt_2q8
Johnny Ringo wrote:
James was on a 250 for 7 of those 23 nationals. Take a knee dude, it’s over. You can make your original argument without making up...
James was on a 250 for 7 of those 23 nationals.

Take a knee dude, it’s over. You can make your original argument without making up RC quotes to fit your narrative.
sandtrack315 wrote:
I quoted him from the video I posted...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXriMVFlWoY My only real claim is just that, RC said James, without hesitation, when asked who pushed him outside...
I quoted him from the video I posted...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXriMVFlWoY

My only real claim is just that, RC said James, without hesitation, when asked who pushed him outside his comfort zone. There is a good reason, which he says in the next sentence--James had a pure raw speed and talent.

As I have also said, others have this! But if you go back, having that, and the other 2 attributes I listed, all in one racer, just does not happen any more. So, sure, compare specifics traits of racers to the traits of another racer. That's fun and interesting, but the general "he reminds me of James", without any specifics about how, will never be true in the general sense. No one will be like James, in the general sense, ever again. That time in the sport is over.
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history.

James will ultimately be remembered for two things: outright speed and failure to meet expectations.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 9/30/2022 5:46pm
9/30/2022 5:46pm
LoudLove wrote:
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history...
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history.

James will ultimately be remembered for two things: outright speed and failure to meet expectations.
Dude changed the sport forever, won titles in every class, had a perfect outdoor season, and kept us on the edge of our seats every time he lined up, but alright, you go ahead and be a huge bummer about it like we are talking about JLaw.
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Pro Lapse
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Pro Lapse 9/30/2022 5:51pm
9/30/2022 5:51pm
LoudLove wrote:
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history...
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history.

James will ultimately be remembered for two things: outright speed and failure to meet expectations.
This is one of the most intelligently articulated posts on Vital. No one will remember JS7 aside from his hilarious highlight reel of extreme crashes and his banishment from the sport due to being caught using hard drugs from the early 1940’s
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RudyRayMo
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RudyRayMo 10/2/2022 9:32am
10/2/2022 9:32am
Haven’t seen a “new” riding style since James. Everybody and their GMA scrubbing everything because of him.
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Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 11:05am
10/2/2022 11:05am
LoudLove wrote:
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history...
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history.

James will ultimately be remembered for two things: outright speed and failure to meet expectations.
This is the mic drop. Been been following him for a while and no matter how much some people want to ignore results and championships, Stewart simply could NOT finish the job. I don’t care how fast he was. Championships matter more. Far more.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/2/2022 11:44am
10/2/2022 11:44am
LoudLove wrote:
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history...
No one wants to be the next James, a man with incredible talent who crashed away more race wins and titles than any rider in history.

James will ultimately be remembered for two things: outright speed and failure to meet expectations.
Jeff Roberts wrote:
This is the mic drop. Been been following him for a while and no matter how much some people want to ignore results and championships, Stewart...
This is the mic drop. Been been following him for a while and no matter how much some people want to ignore results and championships, Stewart simply could NOT finish the job. I don’t care how fast he was. Championships matter more. Far more.
I mean he has 5 titles and a perfect season. Not like he is Mike Alessi
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Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 12:05pm
10/2/2022 12:05pm
I realize that, but he never realized his true potential because he crashed his brains out most of the time. It’s a shame.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/2/2022 12:16pm
10/2/2022 12:16pm
Jeff Roberts wrote:
I realize that, but he never realized his true potential because he crashed his brains out most of the time. It’s a shame.
I think you can use a few factors as to why James is a few titles short of where he should have been. Crashes and injury (03 and 07 MX), bike choice (10-12 Yamaha), and going SX only all played a factor and hurt him on his overall numbers in my opinion

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USA 10/2/2022 12:21pm
10/2/2022 12:21pm
Jeff Roberts wrote:
I realize that, but he never realized his true potential because he crashed his brains out most of the time. It’s a shame.
Never realized his true potential? There is only 1 person in the history of the entire sport that you can say "realized their true potential". Is it a shame for the millions of people that have ever raced that don't have the name Ricky Carmichael?

I have a feeling your just here to ruffle feathers, "Jeff Roberts".
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Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 12:23pm
10/2/2022 12:23pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
I think you can use a few factors as to why James is a few titles short of where he should have been. Crashes and injury...
I think you can use a few factors as to why James is a few titles short of where he should have been. Crashes and injury (03 and 07 MX), bike choice (10-12 Yamaha), and going SX only all played a factor and hurt him on his overall numbers in my opinion

Yeah, I only give him some credit for the bike selection though, since he was so fast he probably could have won on a Hodaka had he not crashed so much. So frustrating.
Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 12:25pm
10/2/2022 12:25pm
USA wrote:
Never realized his true potential? There is only 1 person in the history of the entire sport that you can say "realized their true potential". Is...
Never realized his true potential? There is only 1 person in the history of the entire sport that you can say "realized their true potential". Is it a shame for the millions of people that have ever raced that don't have the name Ricky Carmichael?

I have a feeling your just here to ruffle feathers, "Jeff Roberts".
Dear USA,

You are one of the people I meant when I mentioned an inability to accept facts and statistics as opposed to hype and folklore. The records do not lie. I have a feeling you are in denial.
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USA 10/2/2022 12:45pm
10/2/2022 12:45pm
USA wrote:
Never realized his true potential? There is only 1 person in the history of the entire sport that you can say "realized their true potential". Is...
Never realized his true potential? There is only 1 person in the history of the entire sport that you can say "realized their true potential". Is it a shame for the millions of people that have ever raced that don't have the name Ricky Carmichael?

I have a feeling your just here to ruffle feathers, "Jeff Roberts".
Jeff Roberts wrote:
Dear USA, You are one of the people I meant when I mentioned an inability to accept facts and statistics as opposed to hype and folklore...
Dear USA,

You are one of the people I meant when I mentioned an inability to accept facts and statistics as opposed to hype and folklore. The records do not lie. I have a feeling you are in denial.
James is the best 125/250 rider ever in the history of moto, he lost 3 races his entire time in the class.
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 10/2/2022 1:04pm
10/2/2022 1:04pm
I believe everyone will agree that James was a phenomenally talented and skilled rider. He did well for himself and his family. We can argue that he could have done more but, if it didn't matter to him then, why should it matter to me now? All of us have a certain amount of time to maximize our potential and capitalize on our opportunities. If he's happy, we ought to be happy for him.
Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 2:12pm
10/2/2022 2:12pm
USA wrote:
James is the best 125/250 rider ever in the history of moto, he lost 3 races his entire time in the class.
😂😂 Delusional. Why are a lot of Stewart fans in such denial?
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 10/2/2022 3:09pm
10/2/2022 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2022 3:10pm
USA wrote:
James is the best 125/250 rider ever in the history of moto, he lost 3 races his entire time in the class.
Jeff Roberts wrote:
😂😂 Delusional. Why are a lot of Stewart fans in such denial?
Last to first at Budds: https://youtu.be/xc6unSDsHBo

Slowed down to let Reed pass him, then passed him and pulled away, on a 125 versus a 250F:https://youtu.be/7o0aHp6HezQ

Pretty much the whole reason I started the thread. There won’t be anyone like him again. Faster? Sure. Better racer? Sure. More entertaining, sport-changing, and explosive? Not to my eyes.
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Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 3:19pm
10/2/2022 3:19pm
Not disagreeing at all. Just talking about championships, finishing races, etc. all the things that matter to fans and factories.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 10/2/2022 3:28pm
10/2/2022 3:28pm
Jeff Roberts wrote:
Not disagreeing at all. Just talking about championships, finishing races, etc. all the things that matter to fans and factories.
As a fan, it’s not all about the championships to me. But that’s for a different thread.
Landonious217
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Landonious217 10/2/2022 4:15pm
10/2/2022 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2022 4:18pm
If the modern four stroke were never invented I believe James Stewart would be known as the GOAT. RC is no slouch on a smoker, but James was just the perfect two stroke rider. Always on the pipe, aggressive lines, nobody could match his corner speed.

https://youtu.be/oBByg1bdczY
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Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 5:22pm
10/2/2022 5:22pm
Landonious217 wrote:
If the modern four stroke were never invented I believe James Stewart would be known as the GOAT. RC is no slouch on a smoker, but...
If the modern four stroke were never invented I believe James Stewart would be known as the GOAT. RC is no slouch on a smoker, but James was just the perfect two stroke rider. Always on the pipe, aggressive lines, nobody could match his corner speed.

https://youtu.be/oBByg1bdczY
If only he didn’t crash on a regular basis you might have a point.
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RudyRayMo
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RudyRayMo 10/2/2022 5:41pm
10/2/2022 5:41pm
I keep hearing crashes, the same ppl bagging on James are the same ones that used to get pissed at dv and kdub for not putting up a fight when RC passed them. James gave it his all every time.
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USA 10/2/2022 5:50pm
10/2/2022 5:50pm


Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 6:33pm
10/2/2022 6:33pm
USA wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/10/02/571727/s1200_Screenshot_20221002_194952.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/10/02/571728/s1200_Screenshot_20221002_194919_Samsung_Internet.jpg[/img]


Thank you. You get it.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 10/2/2022 6:40pm
10/2/2022 6:40pm
USA wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/10/02/571727/s1200_Screenshot_20221002_194952.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/10/02/571728/s1200_Screenshot_20221002_194919_Samsung_Internet.jpg[/img]


Jeff Roberts wrote:
Thank you. You get it.
No one talking about how cool James is thinks he has more wins than RC. I only referenced an interview of RC saying James was the one who could push him outside his comfort zone. I don’t get what your point here is?
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Jeff Roberts 10/2/2022 6:43pm
10/2/2022 6:43pm
Simply stating that had he not crashed on a regular basis he probably could have had more wins and championships. Nothing more.
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USA 10/2/2022 6:49pm
10/2/2022 6:49pm
USA wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/10/02/571727/s1200_Screenshot_20221002_194952.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/10/02/571728/s1200_Screenshot_20221002_194919_Samsung_Internet.jpg[/img]


Jeff Roberts wrote:
Thank you. You get it.
sandtrack315 wrote:
No one talking about how cool James is thinks he has more wins than RC. I only referenced an interview of RC saying James was the...
No one talking about how cool James is thinks he has more wins than RC. I only referenced an interview of RC saying James was the one who could push him outside his comfort zone. I don’t get what your point here is?
Guy is trying to disrespect James and the best he has is 'well, see! He's not better than Ricky Carmichael'..
Shiner590
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Shiner590 10/2/2022 8:11pm
10/2/2022 8:11pm
Watching James practice at a SX or National on a 125 was jaw dropping
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