Kurt Nicoll wins Endurocross Vet class on an Alta Electric motorcycle

Mr. G
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9/27/2016 4:31pm
500 ft lbs.of torque? Really? Didn't know there is a chain that can handle that. Amazing.
RangerLee
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9/27/2016 4:47pm
I see on your Alta facebook page that Josh Hill is practicing for straight rythm! Great idea! (I'm not going to make a battery joke here...
I see on your Alta facebook page that Josh Hill is practicing for straight rythm! Great idea! (I'm not going to make a battery joke here, but you could run an extension cord there Smile

The Monster Energy Cup would be a race with no homolgation....Hmmm. maybe Andrew Short would like to do something really different for his finale? He is one of the best development rider's in the sport, and on the fringe of retirement..
This is true, Hill will be on an Alta at straight Rythm... I am intrigued!!
hillbilly
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9/27/2016 6:57pm
You are going to have a electronic bike but the dirt people wont let you ride it for erosion reasons.

God,I'm glad I'm bout done in this world,if i make 10 more yrs,hell 7,be surprised.

The Shop

rutsmash
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9/27/2016 7:15pm
I see on your Alta facebook page that Josh Hill is practicing for straight rythm! Great idea! (I'm not going to make a battery joke here...
I see on your Alta facebook page that Josh Hill is practicing for straight rythm! Great idea! (I'm not going to make a battery joke here, but you could run an extension cord there Smile

The Monster Energy Cup would be a race with no homolgation....Hmmm. maybe Andrew Short would like to do something really different for his finale? He is one of the best development rider's in the sport, and on the fringe of retirement..
Yeah, that's a good point...to run this at MEC. Shorter races so battery life wouldn't be an issue would it..or is that a non issue already for regular length motos? I haven't looked but I imagine these are pretty expensive..but I want one.
Johnny Depp
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9/27/2016 7:17pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 8:04pm
Them being expensive is relative. Guys that ride Harley's don't mind paying big dough $.

I'm already wondering if they would build one with a 52mm Cone Valve forks and a WP dropout shock?
Underdog999
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Kalaheo, HI US
9/27/2016 7:57pm
Keep at it, guys! Love the ebikes and all the places that we can now possibly ride because of them. I really like the looks of your bikes, too. Hopefully you will make it relatively easy for those of us who live in Hawaii to purchase one of these bikes! Shipping is cost prohibitive for buying bikes that are only sold on the mainland! There would be a huge market for these bikes out here!
rutsmash
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9/27/2016 8:34pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 8:37pm
Them being expensive is relative. Guys that ride Harley's don't mind paying big dough $. I'm already wondering if they would build one with a 52mm...
Them being expensive is relative. Guys that ride Harley's don't mind paying big dough $.

I'm already wondering if they would build one with a 52mm Cone Valve forks and a WP dropout shock?
You're right...but for me its relative to a current 450F of some brand. But that being said. There are places I could ride this that I won't on the other. I just don't know how this would sound at a national with no exhaust noise! Will braaap be replaced by "get the hell out of the way", or "WTF", 'GOON"...hard to imagine that. Or wait, maybe it will be full circle like "On Any Sunday" where the kids make the noise themselves!
Skidaddle
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Woodland, CA US
9/27/2016 10:11pm
rutsmash wrote:
You're right...but for me its relative to a current 450F of some brand. But that being said. There are places I could ride this that I...
You're right...but for me its relative to a current 450F of some brand. But that being said. There are places I could ride this that I won't on the other. I just don't know how this would sound at a national with no exhaust noise! Will braaap be replaced by "get the hell out of the way", or "WTF", 'GOON"...hard to imagine that. Or wait, maybe it will be full circle like "On Any Sunday" where the kids make the noise themselves!
They are going to go around the track like this.

fasterfaster
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9/28/2016 3:44pm
Ha, okay lots to catch up on. Will try to consolidate it to just a few posts...

Bruce372, drop me a PM. Maybe we'll be able to find a few minutes to meet up. Would love to see what you're up to!

mx_563, that sounds like Matty if he was also on an '08 250. Yeah, mine is for sale. I was keeping it for longer trails like Stoney Ford, but I've been finding that my Redshift is so much more fun, I haven't used it in a year. $3k if anyone is interested. Dale Lineaweaver just tuned the carb, and the sad thing is it nows runs better than it ever did in the time I owned it since new.

Johnny Depp, thanks for the kind words. Yup, standard pack at the EnduroCross. Sure less weight is always better, but the truth is armed with a full scale MX chassis most riders want all the energy that's in our pack (which is more than twice what's in the KTM). Also, what we're finding is if we don't tell people the weight, they think it is much lighter thanks to the mass centralization and lack of gyro. Josh Hill hopped from his built KX onto the Redshift and came back thinking the Redshift was in the 220s. It is less tiring to ride than any bike I've ever been on, at any weight.

And thanks for the link. Hadn't seen that one yet! And yeah, we're all really excited about the Straight Rhythm. Not sure what will happen but it's going to be fun. We considered the Monster Cup too, and may hit it next year, but it was just too many events at once for us to take on this year.

Johnny Depp
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9/28/2016 6:08pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2016 6:10pm
Thanks for the response Marc. Good luck at the straight rhythm. This bike has a great "buzz" that goes along with a changing industry, promoting and sanctioning. It is cool to see the future unfolding before us. The sanctioning bodies will have to get on board; it is "politically incorrect" not to endorse low emissions propulsion. The Homologation rules have never served any purpose other than to preserve the "business model" of the large manufacturer's (and it is a really dumb word). Any volume rules only serve to further that obsolete protectionism. It stifles development that companies like Alta have been bold enough to do anyway. The fantasy of making racing more affordable is a joke when you see what really goes on for the top teams.

Not that you need my advice, but offering the WP top of the line components as an option is a perfect fit for a bike that is already priced for those willing to speak with their wallets (or credit).
hillbilly
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9/28/2016 6:55pm
I like gas fumes.

I like cutting my finger on a piston ring and cussing.

I like cutting open oil filters.

I like spark plugs.

I like starting a 4 stroke with the muffler off at midnite and watching the flame.
fasterfaster
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9/28/2016 10:16pm
Mr. G wrote:
500 ft lbs.of torque? Really? Didn't know there is a chain that can handle that. Amazing.
Got to be careful with torque figures. Unlike HP, they are affected by where in the gearing you're measuring. We're 36ft-lbs of torque at the rotor, which is the measure that is most comparable to convention where gas bikes are measured at the crank.

After it goes through our internal gear reduction, you've got 122lbs/ft at the countershaft sprocket. This figure it useful for measuring against direct drive electrics like the Zero.

After it goes through 52/13 final drive (chain and sprockets) you've got about 500lbs of torque is at the rear wheel. This is actually what accelerates a bike and is the best way to compare vehicle to vehicle at a given speed, BUT it depends on gearing (so you can make a weak bike look very torquey with crazy gearing that will run out of RPM at 15mph) and it also just isn't what is ever published for gas bikes. If you want to nerd out about rear wheel torque, here's an old tech article I wrote to help folks compare gas to electric to electric.
Johnny Depp
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9/29/2016 8:45pm
That tech article is very revealing. All my life power band's have been a subject of much debate. That article makes it as clear as anything I have ever read.
fasterfaster
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10/4/2016 12:44pm
That tech article is very revealing. All my life power band's have been a subject of much debate. That article makes it as clear as anything...
That tech article is very revealing. All my life power band's have been a subject of much debate. That article makes it as clear as anything I have ever read.
Glad to hear it, thanks. I don't have as much time to write this kind of stuff as I used to, which is a bummer.

Kurt took 2nd at the Denver EX, BTW, and we'll be announcing some other race efforts tomorrow night. Stoked.
Johnny Depp
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10/5/2016 7:18pm
Good Luck! This is the headline news of the event. I sure would be interested in hearing some details on how it's going?
bobojim
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10/6/2016 3:56am
Hi all, Marc from Alta here. Pretty stoked to see this getting some attention... Some quick answers: - Yup, he won the vet main and yes...
Hi all, Marc from Alta here. Pretty stoked to see this getting some attention...

Some quick answers:
- Yup, he won the vet main and yes there was carnage. Lots of it. Part of our goal with this format was to prove the bike is up to any abuse you might throw at it and retire some of the questions of "can it do the technical stuff without a clutch?" I hope we achieved that. (And we also think endurocross is just all around awesome. Been big fans of European hard enduro, and think this is a format that can bring that style of riding to American audiences)
- The Redshift can run underwater. No more hydrolock.

Happy to answer anything else you want to throw my way.
Any chance of smaller versions for kids any time soon?
ns503
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10/6/2016 4:16am
Huge Josh Hill fan here.

I hope he kicks ass & takes numbers on this thing.
500guy
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10/6/2016 9:06am
Thanks for all the info on this bike, Here's a question I have.

How much maintenance is involved with this bike ? I like the idea of no oil and filters to change , it would be nice to go ride and not worry about working on it except keeping it charged.

Also what is the expected life of the power plant and gear train ?
es337
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10/6/2016 3:29pm
Glad to hear it, thanks. I don't have as much time to write this kind of stuff as I used to, which is a bummer. Kurt...
Glad to hear it, thanks. I don't have as much time to write this kind of stuff as I used to, which is a bummer.

Kurt took 2nd at the Denver EX, BTW, and we'll be announcing some other race efforts tomorrow night. Stoked.
I have another question for you, could you give the overall dimensions of the battery pack?
fasterfaster
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10/6/2016 5:50pm
Good Luck! This is the headline news of the event. I sure would be interested in hearing some details on how it's going?
[BTW, is there a way to multi-quote on this board? I couldn't find one...]
Yeah, we didn't expect it, but Red Bull got really excited about the story of our participation, so we're getting a crazy boost from them promoting it. Unfortunately, Josh Hill is a Monster Energy athlete, and I think today the higher ups caught wind of that and pulled the articles from their homepage and social media. It was sweet while it lasted... more attention in 24 hours than I think we've gotten in total up to now.

Bobojim, we definitely have some ideas for kids bikes and think we could make a pretty amazing one, but it would be a new development project and we're still focused on making sure the Redshift is the bike we want it to be. Short version: I want to make one and we probably will eventually, but don't hold your breath.

sdfog1, thank you. SO MUCH. Most of the team (me included) weren't able to be at the event and CBS isn't airing any footage until the 10th, so I hadn't seen any footage from the race. That was awesome. I'm so glad you caught it and posted it. I just reposted it internally at Alta to Slack for the team to see, and I'm listening folks across the office watching it and getting stoked.

500guy, essentially no drivetrain maintenance for the life (1000 hours) of the bike. Still have to do consumables (tires, chain, sprockets, etc), and eventually chassis bearings, but outside of that (or winterizing) you should never need to open the drivetrain. We've torn them down after 150 hours of motocross and the internals still looked new. No detectable wear. The limitation is chassis life (which should match or exceed any of the aluminum chassis bikes) and the battery pack which has a minimum life of 1000 hours (at which point it will still be full power but will be as low as 80% of the original range).

es337, pack is about 70lbs and roughly 9"W x 10"L x 16"H for 5.8kWh
Johnny Depp
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10/6/2016 7:43pm
Thanks for the update.
I'm reading between the lines that Red Bull wouldn't likely get all jazzed up and make the Electric debut a headliner if they didn't already know it could run competitive lap times in practice hmm?
JM485
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10/6/2016 10:08pm
[BTW, is there a way to multi-quote on this board? I couldn't find one...] Yeah, we didn't expect it, but Red Bull got really excited about...
[BTW, is there a way to multi-quote on this board? I couldn't find one...]
Yeah, we didn't expect it, but Red Bull got really excited about the story of our participation, so we're getting a crazy boost from them promoting it. Unfortunately, Josh Hill is a Monster Energy athlete, and I think today the higher ups caught wind of that and pulled the articles from their homepage and social media. It was sweet while it lasted... more attention in 24 hours than I think we've gotten in total up to now.

Bobojim, we definitely have some ideas for kids bikes and think we could make a pretty amazing one, but it would be a new development project and we're still focused on making sure the Redshift is the bike we want it to be. Short version: I want to make one and we probably will eventually, but don't hold your breath.

sdfog1, thank you. SO MUCH. Most of the team (me included) weren't able to be at the event and CBS isn't airing any footage until the 10th, so I hadn't seen any footage from the race. That was awesome. I'm so glad you caught it and posted it. I just reposted it internally at Alta to Slack for the team to see, and I'm listening folks across the office watching it and getting stoked.

500guy, essentially no drivetrain maintenance for the life (1000 hours) of the bike. Still have to do consumables (tires, chain, sprockets, etc), and eventually chassis bearings, but outside of that (or winterizing) you should never need to open the drivetrain. We've torn them down after 150 hours of motocross and the internals still looked new. No detectable wear. The limitation is chassis life (which should match or exceed any of the aluminum chassis bikes) and the battery pack which has a minimum life of 1000 hours (at which point it will still be full power but will be as low as 80% of the original range).

es337, pack is about 70lbs and roughly 9"W x 10"L x 16"H for 5.8kWh
I have to say, until you guys came along I wasn't really very open to the idea on electric dirtbikes, but now I'm getting more and more excited. I think the way you guys are going about marketing the bike is awesome, proving that it can run against gas bikes rather than just saying it needs its own class is huge in my book.

Question, have you ever considered entering the bike in a hillclimb event? I race pro hillclimbs and I could see the torque produced by the electric motor being a huge advantage in this type of racing, as well as not having to worry about covering the clutch constantly. The only disadvantage I see is that 450cc is the smallest class we run, but if the bike was competitive even against 450s that would really be a great showing. I don't know how exactly it would fit in with the current rules, but I bet people would be pretty open to the idea. Just a thought that popped into my head since we're racing this weekend out at Carnegie, I can't wait for a demo day to try the bike out, it looks killer from a rider's and an engineer's perspective.
sdfog1
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10/7/2016 8:31am
[BTW, is there a way to multi-quote on this board? I couldn't find one...] Yeah, we didn't expect it, but Red Bull got really excited about...
[BTW, is there a way to multi-quote on this board? I couldn't find one...]
Yeah, we didn't expect it, but Red Bull got really excited about the story of our participation, so we're getting a crazy boost from them promoting it. Unfortunately, Josh Hill is a Monster Energy athlete, and I think today the higher ups caught wind of that and pulled the articles from their homepage and social media. It was sweet while it lasted... more attention in 24 hours than I think we've gotten in total up to now.

Bobojim, we definitely have some ideas for kids bikes and think we could make a pretty amazing one, but it would be a new development project and we're still focused on making sure the Redshift is the bike we want it to be. Short version: I want to make one and we probably will eventually, but don't hold your breath.

sdfog1, thank you. SO MUCH. Most of the team (me included) weren't able to be at the event and CBS isn't airing any footage until the 10th, so I hadn't seen any footage from the race. That was awesome. I'm so glad you caught it and posted it. I just reposted it internally at Alta to Slack for the team to see, and I'm listening folks across the office watching it and getting stoked.

500guy, essentially no drivetrain maintenance for the life (1000 hours) of the bike. Still have to do consumables (tires, chain, sprockets, etc), and eventually chassis bearings, but outside of that (or winterizing) you should never need to open the drivetrain. We've torn them down after 150 hours of motocross and the internals still looked new. No detectable wear. The limitation is chassis life (which should match or exceed any of the aluminum chassis bikes) and the battery pack which has a minimum life of 1000 hours (at which point it will still be full power but will be as low as 80% of the original range).

es337, pack is about 70lbs and roughly 9"W x 10"L x 16"H for 5.8kWh
No problem! I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. I was also racing at the event myself and I was really interested in seeing how Kurt got through the obstacles with the instant torque and everything. He also killed all of his starts, which was impressive! I really wish you guys the best, I can't wait to ride one of these in the future.
fasterfaster
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10/11/2016 3:31pm
JM485 wrote:
I have to say, until you guys came along I wasn't really very open to the idea on electric dirtbikes, but now I'm getting more and...
I have to say, until you guys came along I wasn't really very open to the idea on electric dirtbikes, but now I'm getting more and more excited. I think the way you guys are going about marketing the bike is awesome, proving that it can run against gas bikes rather than just saying it needs its own class is huge in my book.

Question, have you ever considered entering the bike in a hillclimb event? I race pro hillclimbs and I could see the torque produced by the electric motor being a huge advantage in this type of racing, as well as not having to worry about covering the clutch constantly. The only disadvantage I see is that 450cc is the smallest class we run, but if the bike was competitive even against 450s that would really be a great showing. I don't know how exactly it would fit in with the current rules, but I bet people would be pretty open to the idea. Just a thought that popped into my head since we're racing this weekend out at Carnegie, I can't wait for a demo day to try the bike out, it looks killer from a rider's and an engineer's perspective.
Thanks, man. It means a lot to hear that. We all own and love our gas bikes, so the only thing we've cared about from the beginning was if this was going to be a better bike than the (mostly orange) ones in our garage. I think it was the right way to approach it, and I'm really excited to get the feedback from customers as more and more of these get into the hands of everyday riders.

We've thought about hillclimb but haven't done any big, competition style testing yet. Maybe some of our first customers will give it a shot for us? I can say that on trail style technical hillclimbs, the bike is pretty amazing. On top of the work we did on throttle control paying big dividends in traction, you just never get caught in that spot where you start losing speed, falling off the power, and having to try to sneak in a downshift. Everyone is making it up stuff on this bike that they can't on their gas bikes, even with the stock 19" 100mm rear tire on MX.
JM485
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10/11/2016 9:06pm
Thanks, man. It means a lot to hear that. We all own and love our gas bikes, so the only thing we've cared about from the...
Thanks, man. It means a lot to hear that. We all own and love our gas bikes, so the only thing we've cared about from the beginning was if this was going to be a better bike than the (mostly orange) ones in our garage. I think it was the right way to approach it, and I'm really excited to get the feedback from customers as more and more of these get into the hands of everyday riders.

We've thought about hillclimb but haven't done any big, competition style testing yet. Maybe some of our first customers will give it a shot for us? I can say that on trail style technical hillclimbs, the bike is pretty amazing. On top of the work we did on throttle control paying big dividends in traction, you just never get caught in that spot where you start losing speed, falling off the power, and having to try to sneak in a downshift. Everyone is making it up stuff on this bike that they can't on their gas bikes, even with the stock 19" 100mm rear tire on MX.
Awesome stuff Marc, you guys obviously know what's up! I'll be on the lookout for a demo day in the bay area, I'm definitely curious about giving one of these a try.

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